Reasons Juniors Get DQ in tournaments

 tiger1873 ·  
tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1548WRX Points: 365Posts: 1,548 Platinum Tees
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I have been looking at results of lots of tournaments and I noticed that sometimes players get DQ. I know Sometimes DQ is just an unfortunate circumstance like starting too soon after a weather delay. But I would think that is an exception rather then rule. My initial thoughts is most them being DQ were caught cheating by shaving strokes. What surprises me is I seen some rather high profile juniors this happens to a lot after they move up.
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  • BaitkillerBaitkiller Members  1807WRX Points: 196Handicap: YesPosts: 1,807 Platinum Tees
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    Easy to happen. I watch most of the kids standing on the green looking backwards and counting on their fingers. The kids learn to count each shot instead of keeping track where they in relation to par. They get in the cabbage and slash at a few, easy to loose track.
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  • darter79darter79 Members  853WRX Points: 258Posts: 853 Golden Tee
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    US kids will not DQ a kid almost no matter what unless they committed a big big offense. Most of the time its a 10 on that hole.
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  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1548WRX Points: 365Posts: 1,548 Platinum Tees
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    Baitkiller wrote:


    Easy to happen. I watch most of the kids standing on the green looking backwards and counting on their fingers. The kids learn to count each shot instead of keeping track where they in relation to par. They get in the cabbage and slash at a few, easy to loose track.




    These are 13-15 year old kids who have been playing for years and are playing in what I would call higher level state tournaments. I don't buy the lost count on each shot and signed wrong card unless it was intentional.
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  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1548WRX Points: 365Posts: 1,548 Platinum Tees
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    leezer99 wrote:


    Friend of ours was DQ'd for signing an incorrect scorecard in a two day national event after the second day. Parent that was keeping score for him wrote down the wrong number on a hole, he signed off on it, left the scoring table and didn't notice until they posted his score up on the digital scoreboard. Went back to let them know and took the DQ.




    In a two day national event the parent has no business taking scores that goes on the score card. Just the fact they are doing that to me says they should be DQ. I am assuming that this was an event with no caddies allowed and this was a bigger event? I can see how that happens in a one day event or any event with a caddie but not a bigger event with older kids.
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  • BaitkillerBaitkiller Members  1807WRX Points: 196Handicap: YesPosts: 1,807 Platinum Tees
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    I was referring to what I see at middle and high school matches.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3666WRX Points: 1,009Posts: 3,666 Titanium Tees
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    Most of the time it is incorrect score card. If you aren't at tee boxes 10 minutes before your tee time kids are DQ'd. Using Slope on a Range finder.
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  • benlenahanbenlenahan Members  18WRX Points: 0Posts: 18
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    At our State Championship, there was no DQ for incorrect scorecard. They actually encouraged signing a scorecard without totals and to let them do the math. You could even change after it was signed. Never seen that before.



    My teammate was DQ’d from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.



    At State, they cared about language, pace, and composure. The final paring, which contained the eventual champion and an OSU commit, got a warning for slow pace, Spieth style.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3666WRX Points: 1,009Posts: 3,666 Titanium Tees
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    benlenahan wrote:


    At our State Championship, there was no DQ for incorrect scorecard. They actually encouraged signing a scorecard without totals and to let them do the math. You could even change after it was signed. Never seen that before.








    If you see your score is wrong after it is posted, it is the player responsibility to report. Scoring table doesn't care about you adding the final score as they are going to add it again anyway. Scoring table is to make sure each score on each hole is correct. It is the scoring tables job to add the score, not the player.
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  • DavePelz4DavePelz4 A golf course in the Chicago area.ClubWRX  25366WRX Points: 2,511Handicap: 2 ManyPosts: 25,366 ClubWRX
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    benlenahan wrote:




    My teammate was DQ'd from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.






    Had he declared the original ball as lost?
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3666WRX Points: 1,009Posts: 3,666 Titanium Tees
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    DavePelz4 wrote:

    benlenahan wrote:


    My teammate was DQ'd from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.






    Had he declared the original ball as lost?




    I am not a rules expert, but is DQ even the right penalty for doing that? I know that once they retee they have to play that ball.
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members  3855WRX Points: 385Posts: 3,855 Titanium Tees
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    DavePelz4 wrote:

    benlenahan wrote:


    My teammate was DQ'd from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.






    Had he declared the original ball as lost?




    I am not a rules expert, but is DQ even the right penalty for doing that? I know that once they retee they have to play that ball.




    DQ is the correct penalty.



    He made a stroke at a wrong ball (two stroke penalty). By not correcting his error before teeing off the next hole, it's a DQ.
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  • benlenahanbenlenahan Members  18WRX Points: 0Posts: 18
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    DavePelz4 wrote:

    benlenahan wrote:




    My teammate was DQ'd from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.






    Had he declared the original ball as lost?




    I believe so. He played the rest of the round, and was not until he beat out his opponent their coach called him on it. Dirty, but correct.
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members  3855WRX Points: 385Posts: 3,855 Titanium Tees
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    benlenahan wrote:

    DavePelz4 wrote:

    benlenahan wrote:


    My teammate was DQ'd from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.






    Had he declared the original ball as lost?




    I believe so. He played the rest of the round, and was not until he beat out his opponent their coach called him on it. Dirty, but correct.




    You can't declare a ball "lost" (well, I guess you can declare anything you want to, but it has no bearing on the rules). The first ball was by definition lost as soon as a stroke was made at the re-teed ball.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3666WRX Points: 1,009Posts: 3,666 Titanium Tees
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    benlenahan wrote:

    DavePelz4 wrote:

    benlenahan wrote:


    My teammate was DQ'd from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.






    Had he declared the original ball as lost?




    I believe so. He played the rest of the round, and was not until he beat out his opponent their coach called him on it. Dirty, but correct.




    Out of curiosity, what did he shoot for the day?



    It isn't dirty. It is the rules.
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members  3855WRX Points: 385Posts: 3,855 Titanium Tees
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    benlenahan wrote:

    DavePelz4 wrote:

    benlenahan wrote:


    My teammate was DQ'd from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.






    Had he declared the original ball as lost?




    I believe so. He played the rest of the round, and was not until he beat out his opponent their coach called him on it. Dirty, but correct.




    Out of curiosity, what did he shoot for the day?



    It isn't dirty. It is the rules.




    It's sort of an interesting question with respect to sportsmanship; if you, as the fellow competitor, are aware of the situation and understand the penalties, when and how should you bring it up?



    When the player "finds" the original "lost" ball?

    After they've made a stroke (hence 2 stroke penalty) but before they tee off the next hole, so they have an opportunity to correct it?

    After they tee off the next hole, so they're DQ'd immediately?

    Wait until the end of the round to break the DQ out?
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3666WRX Points: 1,009Posts: 3,666 Titanium Tees
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    raynorfan1 wrote:


    benlenahan wrote:

    DavePelz4 wrote:

    benlenahan wrote:


    My teammate was DQ'd from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.






    Had he declared the original ball as lost?




    I believe so. He played the rest of the round, and was not until he beat out his opponent their coach called him on it. Dirty, but correct.




    Out of curiosity, what did he shoot for the day?



    It isn't dirty. It is the rules.




    It's sort of an interesting question with respect to sportsmanship; if you, as the fellow competitor, are aware of the situation and understand the penalties, when and how should you bring it up?



    When the player "finds" the original "lost" ball?

    After they've made a stroke (hence 2 stroke penalty) but before they tee off the next hole, so they have an opportunity to correct it?

    After they tee off the next hole, so they're DQ'd immediately?

    Wait until the end of the round to break the DQ out?




    Was the coach made aware before the round was over is the question I have. I also believe we are talking about High School Golf. I think it is safe to say that most high school coaches do not know that the penalty was a DQ. I didn't know it and would have to look it up. High School coaches aren't even close to rules officials. I don't think it was dirty for that reason. It is just being unaware.
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members  3855WRX Points: 385Posts: 3,855 Titanium Tees
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    Was the coach made aware before the round was over is the question I have. I also believe we are talking about High School Golf. I think it is safe to say that most high school coaches do not know that the penalty was a DQ. I didn't know it and would have to look it up. High School coaches aren't even close to rules officials. I don't think it was dirty for that reason. It is just being unaware.




    I can totally understand how you play out the round, then when you're finalizing your scorecard, everybody's honest about what happened, nobody knows what the correct rule was, and it turns out to be a DQ. Nothing underhanded there.
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  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1548WRX Points: 365Posts: 1,548 Platinum Tees
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    In high school golf I would expect a lot mistakes. What bothers me is a lot kids who won when they were under 12 are the ones getting DQ. Don’t know the reason for it but in some cases I wonder if they are just getting caught and have been doing it for years.



    I’ve seen some parents do blatant cheating with their kids in the past. Got to think that they eventually get caught.





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  • Hawkeye77Hawkeye77 IowaClubWRX  20946WRX Points: 4,915Posts: 20,946 ClubWRX
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    tiger1873 wrote:


    In high school golf I would expect a lot mistakes. What bothers me is a lot kids who won when they were under 12 are the ones getting DQ. Don't know the reason for it but in some cases I wonder if they are just getting caught and have been doing it for years.



    I've seen some parents do blatant cheating with their kids in the past. Got to think that they eventually get caught.




    Good Lord, why even start the thread?



    You get a lot of good input and repeatedly just basically say you've made up your mind and it's mostly because of cheating.



    Guess that's it then.
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  • tiger1873tiger1873 Members  1548WRX Points: 365Posts: 1,548 Platinum Tees
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    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    In high school golf I would expect a lot mistakes. What bothers me is a lot kids who won when they were under 12 are the ones getting DQ. Don't know the reason for it but in some cases I wonder if they are just getting caught and have been doing it for years.



    I've seen some parents do blatant cheating with their kids in the past. Got to think that they eventually get caught.




    Good Lord, why even start the thread?



    You get a lot of good input and repeatedly just basically say you've made up your mind and it's mostly because of cheating.



    Guess that's it then.




    I started the thread because when I look at results and Look at JGS rankings I see DQ beside some names I been looking at. I am curious what causes this. In some cases I am sure it simple mistake and there are good examples here. In some cases it good to know the rules that anyone could make a mistake and get disqualified.



    It also seems like if you see a pattern of DQ for in tournaments someone in JGS rankings or elsewhere you need to be extra vigilant with them. The great thing is what I am seeing blatant cheating will not get you far in golf and is a minority of players.
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  • NolesNoles Members  1609WRX Points: 228Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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    tiger1873 wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    In high school golf I would expect a lot mistakes. What bothers me is a lot kids who won when they were under 12 are the ones getting DQ. Don't know the reason for it but in some cases I wonder if they are just getting caught and have been doing it for years.



    I've seen some parents do blatant cheating with their kids in the past. Got to think that they eventually get caught.




    Good Lord, why even start the thread?



    You get a lot of good input and repeatedly just basically say you've made up your mind and it's mostly because of cheating.



    Guess that's it then.




    I started the thread because when I look at results and Look at JGS rankings I see DQ beside some names I been looking at. I am curious what causes this. In some cases I am sure it simple mistake and there are good examples here. In some cases it good to know the rules that anyone could make a mistake and get disqualified.



    It also seems like if you see a pattern of DQ for in tournaments someone in JGS rankings or elsewhere you need to be extra vigilant with them. The great thing is what I am seeing blatant cheating will not get you far in golf and is a minority of players.
    I don't know JGS works but is it possible that kids would be posting a high score so they find a way to get DQ'd and then the high score is not posted? Would that be to their advantage?
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  • iteachgolfiteachgolf Members  17150WRX Points: 1,346Posts: 17,150 Titanium Tees
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    tiger1873 wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    In high school golf I would expect a lot mistakes. What bothers me is a lot kids who won when they were under 12 are the ones getting DQ. Don't know the reason for it but in some cases I wonder if they are just getting caught and have been doing it for years.



    I've seen some parents do blatant cheating with their kids in the past. Got to think that they eventually get caught.




    Good Lord, why even start the thread?



    You get a lot of good input and repeatedly just basically say you've made up your mind and it's mostly because of cheating.



    Guess that's it then.




    I started the thread because when I look at results and Look at JGS rankings I see DQ beside some names I been looking at. I am curious what causes this. In some cases I am sure it simple mistake and there are good examples here. In some cases it good to know the rules that anyone could make a mistake and get disqualified.



    It also seems like if you see a pattern of DQ for in tournaments someone in JGS rankings or elsewhere you need to be extra vigilant with them. The great thing is what I am seeing blatant cheating will not get you far in golf and is a minority of players.




    Plenty do it on purpose to not post a high score. They miss their tee time/no show so it doesn’t count. It’s not cheating
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  • benlenahanbenlenahan Members  18WRX Points: 0Posts: 18
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    benlenahan wrote:

    DavePelz4 wrote:

    benlenahan wrote:


    My teammate was DQ'd from an event earlier in the year because he thought his ball was lost, reteed, found the first one, played it, and got a DQ.






    Had he declared the original ball as lost?




    I believe so. He played the rest of the round, and was not until he beat out his opponent their coach called him on it. Dirty, but correct.




    Out of curiosity, what did he shoot for the day?



    It isn't dirty. It is the rules.




    75 or something. I found it low how he waited to post a final score to be called out, though right. Because it was a play-four-take-three tournament it wasn’t the end of the world for us, but still wasn’t fun.
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  • benlenahanbenlenahan Members  18WRX Points: 0Posts: 18
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    Was the coach made aware before the round was over is the question I have. I also believe we are talking about High School Golf. I think it is safe to say that most high school coaches do not know that the penalty was a DQ. I didn't know it and would have to look it up. High School coaches aren't even close to rules officials. I don't think it was dirty for that reason. It is just being unaware.




    I don’t know as I was not the coach. I’d say HS coaches are pretty adequate on their rules knowledge, at least the few I’ve been around. Some are even sticklers about it. Just the other day in the state tournament, I was loged under a pine tree (yes, that’s how the round went), and was informed by my playing partners coach that if I were to cause one needle to fall whilst testing my backswing he would call me for a penalty, before I even stepped up to my ball. Anything to gain a stroke or two I guess, even if it goes to lengths of ruining a kids tournament by some unknown rule.



    And no, I did not cause any needles to fall, and did not incure a penalty.
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3666WRX Points: 1,009Posts: 3,666 Titanium Tees
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    benlenahan wrote:




    Was the coach made aware before the round was over is the question I have. I also believe we are talking about High School Golf. I think it is safe to say that most high school coaches do not know that the penalty was a DQ. I didn't know it and would have to look it up. High School coaches aren't even close to rules officials. I don't think it was dirty for that reason. It is just being unaware.




    I don’t know as I was not the coach. I’d say HS coaches are pretty adequate on their rules knowledge, at least the few I’ve been around. Some are even sticklers about it. Just the other day in the state tournament, I was loged under a pine tree (yes, that’s how the round went), and was informed by my playing partners coach that if I were to cause one needle to fall whilst testing my backswing he would call me for a penalty, before I even stepped up to my ball. Anything to gain a stroke or two I guess, even if it goes to lengths of ruining a kids tournament by some unknown rule.



    And no, I did not cause any needles to fall, and did not incure a penalty.




    Why would needles falling cause you to have a penalty?
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  • heavy_hitterheavy_hitter Members  3666WRX Points: 1,009Posts: 3,666 Titanium Tees
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    iteachgolf wrote:
    tiger1873 wrote:

    Hawkeye77 wrote:

    tiger1873 wrote:


    In high school golf I would expect a lot mistakes. What bothers me is a lot kids who won when they were under 12 are the ones getting DQ. Don't know the reason for it but in some cases I wonder if they are just getting caught and have been doing it for years.



    I've seen some parents do blatant cheating with their kids in the past. Got to think that they eventually get caught.




    Good Lord, why even start the thread?



    You get a lot of good input and repeatedly just basically say you've made up your mind and it's mostly because of cheating.



    Guess that's it then.




    I started the thread because when I look at results and Look at JGS rankings I see DQ beside some names I been looking at. I am curious what causes this. In some cases I am sure it simple mistake and there are good examples here. In some cases it good to know the rules that anyone could make a mistake and get disqualified.



    It also seems like if you see a pattern of DQ for in tournaments someone in JGS rankings or elsewhere you need to be extra vigilant with them. The great thing is what I am seeing blatant cheating will not get you far in golf and is a minority of players.




    Plenty do it on purpose to not post a high score. They miss their tee time/no show so it doesn’t count. It’s not cheating




    JGS changed that rule. If you shoot a 95 day 1 and no show they still post the 95. That is why you see a lot of No Cards now. Kid will score high and just not show up to the scorers table with their card.
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  • SixcatSixcat SWVAMembers  1530WRX Points: 271Posts: 1,530 Platinum Tees
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    I witnessed a high school kid get DQ'd about 5 years ago for signing an incorrect scorecard after not declaring a provisional, playing a provisional and then choosing to play the provisional even after the original was found. It was the final round of the state tournament at my home club. The kids team finished second by a couple of shots. Whole team got punished by his mistake. In Virginia, 6 play for 4 scores. The 5th and 6th player on his team were both in the 100's. His score, even with penalties, would have been more than enough to secure a state title.
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  • NolesNoles Members  1609WRX Points: 228Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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    benlenahan wrote:



    Was the coach made aware before the round was over is the question I have. I also believe we are talking about High School Golf. I think it is safe to say that most high school coaches do not know that the penalty was a DQ. I didn't know it and would have to look it up. High School coaches aren't even close to rules officials. I don't think it was dirty for that reason. It is just being unaware.




    I don't know as I was not the coach. I'd say HS coaches are pretty adequate on their rules knowledge, at least the few I've been around. Some are even sticklers about it. Just the other day in the state tournament, I was loged under a pine tree (yes, that's how the round went), and was informed by my playing partners coach that if I were to cause one needle to fall whilst testing my backswing he would call me for a penalty, before I even stepped up to my ball. Anything to gain a stroke or two I guess, even if it goes to lengths of ruining a kids tournament by some unknown rule.



    And no, I did not cause any needles to fall, and did not incure a penalty.
    This is the appropriate way for the coach to handle it. By telling you ahead of time, he prevented you from breaking a rule.
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  • NolesNoles Members  1609WRX Points: 228Posts: 1,609 Platinum Tees
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    Sixcat wrote:


    I witnessed a high school kid get DQ'd about 5 years ago for signing an incorrect scorecard after not declaring a provisional, playing a provisional and then choosing to play the provisional even after the original was found. It was the final round of the state tournament at my home club. The kids team finished second by a couple of shots. Whole team got punished by his mistake. In Virginia, 6 play for 4 scores. The 5th and 6th player on his team were both in the 100's. His score, even with penalties, would have been more than enough to secure a state title.
    This confuses me. If he didn't say that it was a provisional, then by rule that ball is in play. He played the ball that was in play. What was the infraction?
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  • raynorfan1raynorfan1 Members  3855WRX Points: 385Posts: 3,855 Titanium Tees
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    Noles wrote:

    Sixcat wrote:


    I witnessed a high school kid get DQ'd about 5 years ago for signing an incorrect scorecard after not declaring a provisional, playing a provisional and then choosing to play the provisional even after the original was found. It was the final round of the state tournament at my home club. The kids team finished second by a couple of shots. Whole team got punished by his mistake. In Virginia, 6 play for 4 scores. The 5th and 6th player on his team were both in the 100's. His score, even with penalties, would have been more than enough to secure a state title.
    This confuses me. If he didn't say that it was a provisional, then by rule that ball is in play. He played the ball that was in play. What was the infraction?




    Oddly, if he had declared it a provisional and continued to play it after the original was found, it would be a DQ for playing a wrong ball.



    But by not declaring the provisional, there should have been no penalty (aside from the stroke and distance for a lost ball).
    Posted:
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