Previewing a club before joining

[TheWookie]

So I have been seriously looking at three clubs around me to join. I have developed a pretty good rapport with the membership directors. I have been pretty honest with them about my situation and what I am looking for. My question is how much due diligence did you do before joining where you did? I don't want to lead these folks on but I am not going to jump into something until the time and place is 100% right. I have been invited to play numerous times and free rounds are not my interest. I want to know what kind of games are available, what the guys and gals are like, and what kind of action is going on at different times of day and week. How many times did you play? How many clubs did you check? How long did it take you?

[Kent01putt]

[quote name='TheWookie' timestamp='1396274022' post='8985933']
So I have been seriously looking at three clubs around me to join. I have developed a pretty good rapport with the membership directors. I have been pretty honest with them about my situation and what I am looking for. My question is how much due diligence did you do before joining where you did? I don't want to lead these folks on but I am not going to jump into something until the time and place is 100% right. I have been invited to play numerous times and free rounds are not my interest. I want to know what kind of games are available, what the guys and gals are like, and what kind of action is going on at different times of day and week. How many times did you play? How many clubs did you check? How long did it take you?
[/quote]

I checked 3 clubs prior to joining. Watch the hide items that you get charged for monthly or yearly. The most important to me was the ability to get on the course and how long the average time per round takes. I joined a place with 27 holes and have never had to waited to get on the course in 11 years. I also choose the one that was on my way home from work so access is very easy and not out of the way. You will meet people and always have a game after you are there for a while.

[oregongolf]

[snark]You should PM Pepperturbo. I'm sure he's got all the advice you need for this...[/snark]

Kidding.


My advice:

Depending on where you live, play the course in less than perfect weather... (this is most applicable to the NW).
Walk. Don't let them put you in a cart (unless you can't or won't walk anyway).
Ask about course and club master plan. If they're on plan to make major improvements, you'll wanna know beforehand.
Ask to see a general statement (dues+any capital assessments+fees/funds).
Ask about reciprocal club program. For me, being able to play a large handful of clubs in my extended area is fun (especially at aerification time)

It seems like you have the rest of the stuff covered. I wouldn't worry too much about finding a game and all that... any pro at a club will help you find something. Between that and all the club events, you have plenty of chances to put yourself out there and meet people.

[Cigar56]

The advice about watching out for the hidden costs was right on. If you're not on a budget, then no big deal. If you are, then you need to guard against sticker shock when you start receiving your first few bills. My wife and I were newbies to both golf and country clubs when we joined an exclusive club, and we were absolutely stunned at our monthly bills. I'm not suggesting the club ripped us off because it didn't. But rest assured the monthly dues are just the beginning.

[bazinky]

[quote name='Cigar56' timestamp='1396323220' post='8991963']
The advice about watching out for the hidden costs was right on. If you're not on a budget, then no big deal. If you are, then you need to guard against sticker shock when you start receiving your first few bills. My wife and I were newbies to both golf and country clubs when we joined an exclusive club, and we were absolutely stunned at our monthly bills. I'm not suggesting the club ripped us off because it didn't. But rest assured the monthly dues are just the beginning.
[/quote]

Care to share some examples? I'm in the process of checking out some local clubs now myself ...

[munihack]

Booze, food, booze, tournaments, booze. locker fee range fee bag fee. caddy or cart every time you play. my actual bill is over double my dues.

[benkodi]

The best advice for joining a club if you're on a budget....don't.

[GoStars]

Don't forget sales tax on everything...

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='TheWookie' timestamp='1396274022' post='8985933']
So I have been seriously looking at three clubs around me to join. I have developed a pretty good rapport with the membership directors. I have been pretty honest with them about my situation and what I am looking for. My question is how much due diligence did you do before joining where you did? I don't want to lead these folks on but I am not going to jump into something until the time and place is 100% right. I have been invited to play numerous times and free rounds are not my interest. I want to know what kind of games are available, what the guys and gals are like, and what kind of action is going on at different times of day and week. How many times did you play? How many clubs did you check? How long did it take you?
[/quote]

Due diligence depends on financial commitment and purpose. I've been on two BoD and their respective membership committees. The most common problems that surface later with members are the following.

Expecting to regularly bring friends to the club, but find out there's a monthly limit. The idea being joining a private club aside from golf, is social activities. Expecting the club to help you make friends, but finding out that isn't the case. You have to reach out and be a joiner! For that reason, you need to feel comfortable with "who" the members are. If you're not, you'll be like many people, unhappy. Clubs always sell their memberships before going to the 4-sales list. Because of that, If you want to leave the club at a later day, depending on membership / charter requirements, it might take a long time to sell your membership; till then you pay dues. Being overwhelmed by how quickly costs reach $1000 or more per month. Being surprised clubs charge for all events and tournaments, and cart fees, over and above monthly dues. If you want your own cart and it's allowed, it will cost a hefty trail fee per electric cart, which is typically billed in January of each year. If there's any assessments, they are billed in Jan as well, on top of dues. My Jan bill has been as much as $25k.

Before we bought our houses on the courses, we visited each club multiple times, for multiple golf days, lunch and dinner with members. Its a big commitment to the club and you... take your time and think though all your expectations and what you want to get out of the club. From there it will be easier to see whether your expectations will fit the clubs culture.

[ruascott]

[quote name='bazinky' timestamp='1396355062' post='8993179']
[quote name='Cigar56' timestamp='1396323220' post='8991963']
The advice about watching out for the hidden costs was right on. If you're not on a budget, then no big deal. If you are, then you need to guard against sticker shock when you start receiving your first few bills. My wife and I were newbies to both golf and country clubs when we joined an exclusive club, and we were absolutely stunned at our monthly bills. I'm not suggesting the club ripped us off because it didn't. But rest assured the monthly dues are just the beginning.
[/quote]

Care to share some examples? I'm in the process of checking out some local clubs now myself ...
[/quote]

It's been mentioned, but the main things are locker fees, bag storage fees, cart fees, tournament fees. Also realize that food and beverage mins don't include the auto service charges and tax, so add 30+% that. Holiday gift funds for employees.

Of course you've got to be aware of assessments, if any.

[cristphoto]

I looked at three other courses in my area. All the courses allowed a round of golf. One was free the other two I paid for and was told it would be refunded if I joined. I was comped a lunch at all the courses. I was allowed to speak to other golfers in the Grill to ask questions. I knew members of each of the courses I was considering so I had a good idea of what I was getting into. I've always been glad I joined as there are many benefits to belonging to a private club. These have costs though so if you're considering make sure you the assets available to cover any expense that might occur.

[Cubswin]

Other posters have given you good advice on the types of costs. They are not necessarily hidden costs, but, to those new to private clubs, they are often unanticipated and catch them by surprise.

I went through a similar process a few years ago when the waiting lists of most clubs around here were much shorter than now and this is what my friends at private clubs told me at the time.

First, you need to find out, if possible, the club's financial situation. I say "if possible" because it could be rather hard to get that information. Some clubs carry hefty debts on their book and, when the time comes to "retire the debts" or, more often, refinance them, equity members are going to get socked with special assessments. In addition, if the board decides that the club needs to redo the pool, expand platform tennis facilities, spruce up the dining room, upgrade women's locker room, etc., yes, you the equity member will get assessed.

Two of my friends at very "upscale" clubs just got their special assessment invoices last year and, judging from their reactions, they were way more than a few grand. Don't let the supposed prestige of the club lull you into a false sense of financial security of the club. I know of a very upscale club with a thriving membership not too far from me that has a ton of debts that it needs to refinance in the next few years. It will be interesting to see what they do. Do they add more members (possibly changing the culture of the club), issue special assessments (PO those who are on budget) or do both (PO everyone)?

Obviously, of course, if the club you are considering is struggling with an old and dwindling membership, the "special deal" the club is willing to give you on the downstroke may not be a deal after all. That is because a smaller number of remaining members (say 125) are going to be asked to pay for the annual operating expenses that the full membership (say, 250) used to pay for. That is a death spiral waiting to happen. It is sort of Hotel California.

Either way, you need to ask questions and do all you can to find out about the club's finances.

Second, you need to do your homework on what it costs to be a regular active member on an annual basis after paying the initiation dues. The cost of playing private golf is quite high although the initiation fee component varies wildly from city to city. In Chicago, the going rate is about 70K to 120K for the top tier, but not the most elite, clubs. That range is 50 to 100% higher in NYC, SF and LA. In smaller cities, however, I have friends who joined clubs that have hosted PGA events by paying a fraction of the going rates in Chicago. But, you need to get past focusing on the initiation dues. They are what they are based on the market's supply and demand. I am assuming you are comfortable enough to write a check for whatever the downstroke is.

But, you should think long and hard about ongoing expenses and how much of a hit that the club expenses are going to be on your cash flow. Unlike the initiation fees, monthly dues don't seem to fluctuate as much from city to city. It makes sense since the fixed overheads for operating and maintaining a course don't vary by a factor of 10. If you want to figure out what you are likely to pay each year, here is an example. The monthly dues for golf around my area are about $600 to $800 depending on what is included. The way I look at it, it takes at least $15,000 to pay for the basic golf associated expenses and cover the food and drink minimums. If you want to have clients or friends out a few times a year, use caddies, ride carts, participate in member events, take lessons, etc. (all of which you will pay extra), you will easily spend $20,000-$25,000. In other words, month dues of $600 (making you think "hey, unlimited golf at $600 x 12 + food minimum") just became $20,000-$25,000 per year. For some, that is an worthy or minor expense. For others, it is a big commitment.

Of course, if your wife decides that she really, really likes that life style, starts hanging out at the club with "the Ladies Who Lunch," starts sitting on charity boards and organizing black tie fund-raising events, etc., then, well, it becomes very expensive.

[TheWookie]

for the record, the 3 clubs I am looking at are corporate owned or managed. They are all looking to attract younger members and family and I can still just get in under the young exec type of deal. Do these membership folks have any leverage to cut deals? dues may be hard to negotiate but other incidentals may be flexible.

[Cubswin]

I am not as familiar with corporate managed or owned clubs. But, I doubt they will make special accommodations for your monthly or annual incidentals. It will bend on the initiation fees and maybe agree to waive the monthly dues for "X" months. But, monkeying with monthly dues and other expenses on an ongoing and individual basis is an accounting nightmare and can upset existing members.

When I was going through the process, however, I did consider a "corporate membership" at a very high end, Tom Fazio-designed public course (back then around $200+ per round) owned by a well-known golf management company. It had a strong core membership, "meh" locker facilities, outstanding practice areas, a nice club house and typical private club member tournaments (member/guest, member/member, holiday shot-guns, club championship, weekly competition, etc.) - essentially "country club lite." No pool, no platform tennis, no social, no kiddie programs, etc. Just golf.

My recollection was that the club lowered the initiation fee to 15K (equity) and 8K (non-equity) from something much higher - one member I know there said he had paid something like 35K. But, every member, new or old, had to pay the same annual fee (about 7K) that included all golf, range balls, club storage and locker, but member tournaments were extra (as is the case at private clubs). One of the guys who went through the process with me ended up joining there and said he tried but could not get any deal on the annual dues. He is pretty happy there even though he initially wanted a country club. He budgets about $10,000 to $12,000 a year for his golf expenses - member tournaments, guest fees, lessons, etc.

Good luck.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='TheWookie' timestamp='1396444744' post='9001957']
for the record, the 3 clubs I am looking at are corporate owned or managed. They are all looking to attract younger members and family and I can still just get in under the young exec type of deal. Do these membership folks have any leverage to cut deals? dues may be hard to negotiate but other incidentals may be flexible.
[/quote]

Although my clubs were equity, I've spent a lot of time at corporate owned clubs playing against friends in inter-club match play. The unwritten purpose of "Young Executive" memberships are to get new members into the social fabric of the club, and hopefully develop lasting friendships. Thus, when it comes time (they hit the age limit) to move to a full regular membership, more of those young executives can now afford to willingly make the move. Its a good deal.

But keep in mind, 'most' of the clubs that offer programs like that, that I have visited as a board member, expect their young members to pay relatively normal dues. if you're treating private club membership buy-in like buying a car, many club cultures are not going to be comfortable with that mindset. Partly because club operating costs are non-negotiable. That's why its costly to be a club member. Yet, some private clubs that need cash-flow, might overlook their ideals, and deal a bit, figuring a monthly dues paying member is a good thing. That person just won't be seen as a viable long term full member.

[The Pearl]

Question for the experienced club members here that have served on boards or membership committees.

Is it possible to negotiate rates and/or initiation fees? Or are these rules always non-negotiable? My local club, hits me up a couple of times each year. In my humble opinion they are a few road blocks to me joining that if I could negotiate some leeway, I would join in a heartbeat.

[cristphoto]

[quote name='TheWookie' timestamp='1396444744' post='9001957']
for the record, the 3 clubs I am looking at are corporate owned or managed. They are all looking to attract younger members and family and I can still just get in under the young exec type of deal. Do these membership folks have any leverage to cut deals? dues may be hard to negotiate but other incidentals may be flexible.
[/quote]

The one thing the club I joined offered was the ability to pay the initiation fee over a two year period interest free. Everything else was non-negotiable.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1396463183' post='9004431']
Question for the experienced club members here that have served on boards or membership committees.

Is it possible to negotiate rates and/or initiation fees? Or are these rules always non-negotiable? My local club, hits me up a couple of times each year. In my humble opinion they are a few road blocks to me joining that if I could negotiate some leeway, I would join in a heartbeat.
[/quote]

When I speak of private club, I am not talking about a private group of a general golf club or joining a semi-private club, or men's club, etc. Private club Initiation fee's are defined in a clubs charter, as are dues, and all other club rules, including behavior, privacy, etc. All of which are approved by a two thirds percentage of voting members, or the owners, or corporate BoD. If a club is in need of new members and is "not" equity (not-for-profit status), they might negotiate. That does not mean a potential member can throw out any ole amount, that isn't remotely close to the clubs stated initiation fee or rates. Of course, someone can throw out some arbitrary amount, but if its ridiculous, it also shows the persons mentality. As a consequence, the approval group might just not counter, and blow off that kind of person, as a potential bargain hunter problem later on. Reason being, members can not negotiate dues or individual costs that show up on the monthly or quarterly bills, least at legitimate private clubs. Also, many clubs will finance initiation fee's. Typically no longer than five years, with most 2-3yrs. Keep in mind, under that condition, the club will likely conduct a deeper investigation into the persons financial resources, to insure they can make both initiation payments on top of monthly dues; which equates to a large monthly payment, on top of other personal lifestyle costs.

[The Pearl]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1396469006' post='9005239']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1396463183' post='9004431']
Question for the experienced club members here that have served on boards or membership committees.

Is it possible to negotiate rates and/or initiation fees? Or are these rules always non-negotiable? My local club, hits me up a couple of times each year. In my humble opinion they are a few road blocks to me joining that if I could negotiate some leeway, I would join in a heartbeat.
[/quote]

When I speak of private club, I am not talking about a private group of a general golf club or joining a semi-private club, or men's club, etc. Private club Initiation fee's are defined in a clubs charter, as are dues, and all other club rules, including behavior, privacy, etc. All of which are approved by a two thirds percentage of voting members, or the owners, or corporate BoD. If a club is in need of new members and is "not" equity (not-for-profit status), they might negotiate. That does not mean a potential member can throw out any ole amount, that isn't remotely close to the clubs stated initiation fee or rates. Of course, someone can throw out some arbitrary amount, but if its ridiculous, it also shows the persons mentality. As a consequence, the approval group might just not counter, and blow off that kind of person, as a potential bargain hunter problem later on. Reason being, members can not negotiate dues or individual costs that show up on the monthly or quarterly bills, least at legitimate private clubs. Also, many clubs will finance initiation fee's. Typically no longer than five years, with most 2-3yrs. Keep in mind, under that condition, the club will likely conduct a deeper investigation into the persons financial resources, to insure they can make both initiation payments on top of monthly dues; which equates to a large monthly payment, on top of other personal lifestyle costs.
[/quote]

Thanks, Pepper, that explanation makes a lot of sense. Perhaps this is normal throughout most clubs, by my local club does not offer a single membership. It is one price "per family" so essentially at some level I am underwriting a certain part of the membership population. Based on my conversation with the membership director, this is been a bone of contention for quite some time. Given the local culture, I am not surprised why they have not yielded on offering the single membership option. Anyway, as you said, perhaps this says more about my mentality than theirs. A bit of a shame really as the course is very nice, 8 minutes away and virtually uninhabited most of the time.

[cristphoto]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1396470466' post='9005459']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1396469006' post='9005239']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1396463183' post='9004431']
Question for the experienced club members here that have served on boards or membership committees.

Is it possible to negotiate rates and/or initiation fees? Or are these rules always non-negotiable? My local club, hits me up a couple of times each year. In my humble opinion they are a few road blocks to me joining that if I could negotiate some leeway, I would join in a heartbeat.
[/quote]

When I speak of private club, I am not talking about a private group of a general golf club or joining a semi-private club, or men's club, etc. Private club Initiation fee's are defined in a clubs charter, as are dues, and all other club rules, including behavior, privacy, etc. All of which are approved by a two thirds percentage of voting members, or the owners, or corporate BoD. If a club is in need of new members and is "not" equity (not-for-profit status), they might negotiate. That does not mean a potential member can throw out any ole amount, that isn't remotely close to the clubs stated initiation fee or rates. Of course, someone can throw out some arbitrary amount, but if its ridiculous, it also shows the persons mentality. As a consequence, the approval group might just not counter, and blow off that kind of person, as a potential bargain hunter problem later on. Reason being, members can not negotiate dues or individual costs that show up on the monthly or quarterly bills, least at legitimate private clubs. Also, many clubs will finance initiation fee's. Typically no longer than five years, with most 2-3yrs. Keep in mind, under that condition, the club will likely conduct a deeper investigation into the persons financial resources, to insure they can make both initiation payments on top of monthly dues; which equates to a large monthly payment, on top of other personal lifestyle costs.
[/quote]

Thanks, Pepper, that explanation makes a lot of sense. Perhaps this is normal throughout most clubs, by my local club does not offer a single membership. It is one price "per family" so essentially at some level I am underwriting a certain part of the membership population. Based on my conversation with the membership director, this is been a bone of contention for quite some time. Given the local culture, I am not surprised why they have not yielded on offering the single membership option. Anyway, as you said, perhaps this says more about my mentality than theirs. A bit of a shame really as the course is very nice, 8 minutes away and virtually uninhabited most of the time.
[/quote]

My club also has only one dues structure but they understand how that might offend single's. So what we've done is if you're single you're allowed to bring a guest with you (I assume every time you play) gratis but each guest is only allowed on the property once a month. Your spouse is automatically a member if you're married and for each child you pay a one-time minimal annual fee. You can keep the kids on the roles until about age 30 then they are offered the ability to join (I believe initiation fee is waived).

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='cristphoto' timestamp='1396472323' post='9005701']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1396470466' post='9005459']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1396469006' post='9005239']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1396463183' post='9004431']
Question for the experienced club members here that have served on boards or membership committees.

Is it possible to negotiate rates and/or initiation fees? Or are these rules always non-negotiable? My local club, hits me up a couple of times each year. In my humble opinion they are a few road blocks to me joining that if I could negotiate some leeway, I would join in a heartbeat.
[/quote]

When I speak of private club, I am not talking about a private group of a general golf club or joining a semi-private club, or men's club, etc. Private club Initiation fee's are defined in a clubs charter, as are dues, and all other club rules, including behavior, privacy, etc. All of which are approved by a two thirds percentage of voting members, or the owners, or corporate BoD. If a club is in need of new members and is "not" equity (not-for-profit status), they might negotiate. That does not mean a potential member can throw out any ole amount, that isn't remotely close to the clubs stated initiation fee or rates. Of course, someone can throw out some arbitrary amount, but if its ridiculous, it also shows the persons mentality. As a consequence, the approval group might just not counter, and blow off that kind of person, as a potential bargain hunter problem later on. Reason being, members can not negotiate dues or individual costs that show up on the monthly or quarterly bills, least at legitimate private clubs. Also, many clubs will finance initiation fee's. Typically no longer than five years, with most 2-3yrs. Keep in mind, under that condition, the club will likely conduct a deeper investigation into the persons financial resources, to insure they can make both initiation payments on top of monthly dues; which equates to a large monthly payment, on top of other personal lifestyle costs.
[/quote]

Thanks, Pepper, that explanation makes a lot of sense. Perhaps this is normal throughout most clubs, by my local club does not offer a single membership. It is one price "per family" so essentially at some level I am underwriting a certain part of the membership population. Based on my conversation with the membership director, this is been a bone of contention for quite some time. Given the local culture, I am not surprised why they have not yielded on offering the single membership option. Anyway, as you said, perhaps this says more about my mentality than theirs. A bit of a shame really as the course is very nice, 8 minutes away and virtually uninhabited most of the time.
[/quote]

My club also has only one dues structure but they understand how that might offend single's. So what we've done is if you're single you're allowed to bring a guest with you (I assume every time you play) gratis but each guest is only allowed on the property once a month. Your spouse is automatically a member if you're married and for each child you pay a one-time minimal annual fee. You can keep the kids on the roles until about age 30 then they are offered the ability to join (I believe initiation fee is waived).
[/quote]

Our club also offers a single, golf only membership. My wife doesn't play and the kids are grown, so I don't need the full-service membership. I don't have pool or tennis privledges, and I do still have the F&B minimums, but it is quite a bit cheaper.

[Sean2]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1396376966' post='8996191']
[quote name='TheWookie' timestamp='1396274022' post='8985933']
So I have been seriously looking at three clubs around me to join. I have developed a pretty good rapport with the membership directors. I have been pretty honest with them about my situation and what I am looking for. My question is how much due diligence did you do before joining where you did? I don't want to lead these folks on but I am not going to jump into something until the time and place is 100% right. I have been invited to play numerous times and free rounds are not my interest. I want to know what kind of games are available, what the guys and gals are like, and what kind of action is going on at different times of day and week. How many times did you play? How many clubs did you check? How long did it take you?
[/quote]

Due diligence depends on financial commitment and purpose. I've been on two BoD and their respective membership committees. The most common problems that surface later with members are the following.

Expecting to regularly bring friends to the club, but find out there's a monthly limit. The idea being joining a private club aside from golf, is social activities. Expecting the club to help you make friends, but finding out that isn't the case. You have to reach out and be a joiner! For that reason, you need to feel comfortable with "who" the members are. If you're not, you'll be like many people, unhappy. Clubs always sell their memberships before going to the 4-sales list. Because of that, If you want to leave the club at a later day, depending on membership / charter requirements, it might take a long time to sell your membership; till then you pay dues. Being overwhelmed by how quickly costs reach $1000 or more per month. Being surprised clubs charge for all events and tournaments, and cart fees, over and above monthly dues. If you want your own cart and it's allowed, it will cost a hefty trail fee per electric cart, which is typically billed in January of each year. If there's any assessments, they are billed in Jan as well, on top of dues. My Jan bill has been as much as $25k.

Before we bought our houses on the courses, we visited each club multiple times, for multiple golf days, lunch and dinner with members. Its a big commitment to the club and you... take your time and think though all your expectations and what you want to get out of the club. From there it will be easier to see whether your expectations will fit the clubs culture.
[/quote]

[b]For that reason, you need to feel comfortable with "who" the members are.[/b]

I think that is probably the most important advice right there.

[Cubswin]

Wookie may get more useful info if he can say where he lives and what type of clubs he is considering (golf club-based housing developments, old line country clubs, corporate-owned clubs, etc.).

The financial issues have been discussed at length. Whatever the initiation and monthly dues are based on the supply and demand in his area, he should have a pretty good idea as to what his annual obligations are going to be.

Getting to know the membership before jumping in is very good advice. As "private" clubs, no matter where they are and what their price points are, they all have their own culture and dominant demographics. For one, if a club he is considering is part of a planned community with housing stock within a set price range, the members are by and large going look similar - in age, income-levels, etc. Other clubs may be known to have members who are owners of small businesses. Some may be filled with lawyers, doctors, brokers, etc. If he is looking at a club that is considered "old line," it is going to have its own preferred demographics - some clubs here are known for being primarily Irish, WASPy, Jewish, etc. Some require its members to be residents of a particular suburb. Yet other clubs may be more diverse - socio-economically, ethnically, religiously, etc. Only you (Wookie) and your family can decide what works for you.

Find out as much as you can about the club, its membership and its culture before jumping in.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1396470466' post='9005459']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1396469006' post='9005239']
[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1396463183' post='9004431']
Question for the experienced club members here that have served on boards or membership committees.

Is it possible to negotiate rates and/or initiation fees? Or are these rules always non-negotiable? My local club, hits me up a couple of times each year. In my humble opinion they are a few road blocks to me joining that if I could negotiate some leeway, I would join in a heartbeat.
[/quote]

When I speak of private club, I am not talking about a private group of a general golf club or joining a semi-private club, or men's club, etc. Private club Initiation fee's are defined in a clubs charter, as are dues, and all other club rules, including behavior, privacy, etc. All of which are approved by a two thirds percentage of voting members, or the owners, or corporate BoD. If a club is in need of new members and is "not" equity (not-for-profit status), they might negotiate. That does not mean a potential member can throw out any ole amount, that isn't remotely close to the clubs stated initiation fee or rates. Of course, someone can throw out some arbitrary amount, but if its ridiculous, it also shows the persons mentality. As a consequence, the approval group might just not counter, and blow off that kind of person, as a potential bargain hunter problem later on. Reason being, members can not negotiate dues or individual costs that show up on the monthly or quarterly bills, least at legitimate private clubs. Also, many clubs will finance initiation fee's. Typically no longer than five years, with most 2-3yrs. Keep in mind, under that condition, the club will likely conduct a deeper investigation into the persons financial resources, to insure they can make both initiation payments on top of monthly dues; which equates to a large monthly payment, on top of other personal lifestyle costs.
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Thanks, Pepper, that explanation makes a lot of sense. Perhaps this is normal throughout most clubs, by my local club does not offer a single membership. It is one price "per family" so essentially at some level I am underwriting a certain part of the membership population. Based on my conversation with the membership director, this is been a bone of contention for quite some time. Given the local culture, I am not surprised why they have not yielded on offering the single membership option. Anyway, as you said, perhaps this says more about my mentality than theirs. A bit of a shame really as the course is very nice, 8 minutes away and virtually uninhabited most of the time.
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Surprisingly, many courses have one initiation fee for family or single. It was discussed many times at both my clubs. The clubs I've been associated with do not see it as you're underwriting other members, by paying a family rate. Think of it this way; if a single person pays a single initiation fee and proportionate dues (notably lower), but later has family members wanting to enjoy the club facilities and golf. At that point the problem is the club has to reclassify the single member as family, and charge family initiation fee and higher dues. In other words, the single member has to cough up more initiation fee, which causes a problem of sorts for all involved. Even if you're single man and join as a single member, then get married to a golfer, you have to be reclassified and pay more. Psychologically, that's uncomfortable for many people.

Typically, many contemporary golf (only) clubs offer single memberships, as well as family golf memberships; but seldom is that the case with country clubs. Even though the man might be the only golfer, his family often develops an interest in using all the other facilities, and sometimes finds a newly acquired interest in golf.