Manual de la Torre Method

[wlitwa]

DaveLeeNC,

Regarding body turn, A MDLT teacher told me that raising the back foot heel was the one and only thing MDLT taught regarding the body (also see the MDLT book page 59 "The Role of the Back Foot".)

However, my personal experience is that focusing on some turn (getting left hip out of the way), is helpful. Nothing wrong with adding some body focused instruction (if needed) to the club focused instruction.

[wlitwa]

tm3,

I took a zoom lesson with Dan last year and he said what he is teaching is basically similar to what MDLT teaches.  Dan works with a physicist who conceptualizes the motion in a more highly technical, esoteric manner.

Regardless, even after being able to swing The Pro basically correctly, I could not get the concept to work for me satisfactorily on the golf course. Probably just me, a younger, athletic person would likely do just fine.

 

[fried121]

24 minutes ago, wlitwa said:

 I could not get the concept to work for me satisfactorily on the golf course. 

 

I am Considering working with “the Pro” and Dans swing system. What challenges did you have with it on the course? (Two way miss, lack of distance, etc). Do you still use the Pro or have you moved on entirely?  Would love to here your thoughts 

[dwboston]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:19 PM, DaveLeeNC said:

FWIW, I went down the MDLT road a short while back - its simplicity was the appeal. I am not sure where my swing was when I started but I ended up with an all arms swing with a crappy (almost non-existent) turn. Maybe I was kind of there before I started - not sure. Certainly some years back I had something resembling a decent turn. 

 

Just something to think about. As I said I am not positive about what role the MDLT swing approach had in that, but I SUSPECT that it was significant. 

 

dave 

 

Thanks Dave.  I'm not necessarily going down the MDLT road.  I just wanted to share that something in the book resonated with me and helped me understand how I've been going wrong in the initial part of the backswing.  It also reinforced a point I saw Andy Carter make in a video recently about Pete Cowan advocating for trail hand counter-pressure in the takeaway to prevent rolling the club inside.  I appreciate that this stuff will not make sense to everyone.

 

I've probably always had this top-hand dominance problem in the takeaway.  The issue wasn't as bad when I weighed more and was less flexible with more mass up top - I just couldn't lift my arms as much back then, but it got crazy bad after losing weight over a winter and starting the next golf season, and I've struggled ever since.  I'm left-handed and play golf LH, but any "underhanded" sports I've always done RH (like bowling and throwing a frisbee).  It probably just felt natural to let my right (top) hand take the club back.  Taking it back with both hands is definitely a different feeling - I'll keep with it and see how it goes. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by dwboston

[wlitwa]

fried121,

I still dabble with The Pro.

Dan's concept, similar to Ernest Jones and MDLT, is an effortless feel to the swing (see Martha Nause's saying this in the video above). My tendency is muscular tension - casting, and using my hands (Ernest Jones: "Tension is an insurmountable barrier to swinging." Also see Lesson #77 in "Learning Golf with Manuel", with muscular tension distance goes first and then direction and Ed LeBeau's #3 Legacy video where Manuel says, "Men have a tendency to be very muscular oriented and using their muscles instead of using the club to work your muscles. Just like when you try to extend, all you're doing  is creating tension, you are not particularly making a good swing."). If "swing the clubhead",  "swing the whole club forward with your (upper) arms" or "swing The Pro keeping the handle and rope straight" does not resonate, another way of trying to communicate a correct swinging motion is David Lee's "Gravity Golf", counterfall with the body and gently turn. Golf is a lifetime project, enjoy the journey.

[wlitwa]

4 hours ago, dwboston said:

 

Thanks Dave.  I'm not necessarily going down the MDLT road.  I just wanted to share that something in the book resonated with me and helped me understand how I've been going wrong in the initial part of the backswing.  It also reinforced a point I saw Andy Carter make in a video recently about Pete Cowan advocating for trail hand counter-pressure in the takeaway to prevent rolling the club inside.  I appreciate that this stuff will not make sense to everyone.

 

I've probably always had this top-hand dominance problem in the takeaway.  The issue wasn't as bad when I weighed more and was less flexible with more mass up top - I just couldn't lift my arms as much back then, but it got crazy bad after losing weight over a winter and starting the next golf season, and I've struggled ever since.  I'm left-handed and play golf LH, but any "underhanded" sports I've always done RH (like bowling and throwing a frisbee).  It probably just felt natural to let my right (top) hand take the club back.  Taking it back with both hands is definitely a different feeling - I'll keep with it and see how it goes. 

A MDLT instructor would frequently tell me the fix for top hand dominance is to feel like you are taking the club head back with your bottom hand only (it is a contrasting feeling).

[LDM]

I have been trying MDLT swing method for about a month.  Bought his book and watched as many videos as I could find.  My HCI hovers around 10.  I am definitely more consistent but tend to have shorter distances.  I believe the distance issue is more from hitting lower on the club face than previously.  During setup, using MDLT method, and considering a small offset built into the clubs, do you setup with hands in middle and ball slightly back of center to get the "4th groove" contact?  Setting my club in middle with shaft also in middle places face of club at lower grooves.  Also, with driver, do you place club in middle and ball forward and just swing normally and catch ball on slight upswing? 

I definitely feel better (my back especially) after a round using MDLT.  Much more relaxed swing.  But I would like to get some yardage back.  400+ yard par 4's are difficult to reach in two now. 

[DaveLeeNC]

On 10/28/2023 at 5:19 PM, DaveLeeNC said:

FWIW, I went down the MDLT road a short while back - its simplicity was the appeal. I am not sure where my swing was when I started but I ended up with an all arms swing with a crappy (almost non-existent) turn. Maybe I was kind of there before I started - not sure. Certainly some years back I had something resembling a decent turn. 

 

Just something to think about. As I said I am not positive about what role the MDLT swing approach had in that, but I SUSPECT that it was significant. 

 

dave 

 

Just for clarification/completeness my point here is not that MDLT is necessarily bad or wrong. My point is that reading the book leads you to think that some work and the proper intent and focus will yield good results. IMHO, you also need another pair of eyes (maybe an instructor or maybe just your own video recorder) as 'intent' may not always yield the results that you are looking for. My only point here. 

 

dave

[Shilgy]

Plent of,power in this MDLT swing.

[wlitwa]

12 hours ago, LDM said:

I have been trying MDLT swing method for about a month.  Bought his book and watched as many videos as I could find.  My HCI hovers around 10.  I am definitely more consistent but tend to have shorter distances.  I believe the distance issue is more from hitting lower on the club face than previously.  During setup, using MDLT method, and considering a small offset built into the clubs, do you setup with hands in middle and ball slightly back of center to get the "4th groove" contact?  Setting my club in middle with shaft also in middle places face of club at lower grooves.  Also, with driver, do you place club in middle and ball forward and just swing normally and catch ball on slight upswing? 

I definitely feel better (my back especially) after a round using MDLT.  Much more relaxed swing.  But I would like to get some yardage back.  400+ yard par 4's are difficult to reach in two now. 

Setup up with the clubhead in the center of your stance (all clubs) with the club shaft perpendicular to the target line and perpendicular to vertical (check this with a mirror or video). Further regarding setup, please review and study the many resource materials including Manuel's book, Chapter 2: "The Address Position", Ed LeBeau's book and video, "Understanding the Golf Swing", John Hayes's YouTube video "Manuel de la Torre on Setup" and Lesson #15 in the Hayes book "Learning Golf with Manuel".

Regarding yardage, please review and reflect on Manuel's book, Chapter 10: "Power", Lessons #30, #65, and #88 and the Martha Nause video where she says to Manuel, "I don't feel like the swing is powerful enough". Manuel responds, "But is it?"

Sometimes a personal lesson with a competent MDLT instructor is needed. Online video lessons are available. One such instructor told me that," If you try to fix what you are doing wrong, you will fail 100% of the time". So, just do what's correct.

Edited October 31, 2023 by wlitwa

[LDM]

WLITWA,

Thank you for the reply...I will check out those references.  

[tm3]

2 hours ago, wlitwa said:

One such instructor told me that," If you try to fix what you are doing wrong, you will fail 100% of the time". So, just do what's correct.

And IMO that is one of the biggest keys to the whole MDLT philosophy, and it is 180 degrees from what most golfers that I have played with do on the course and 180 degrees from what most instruction that I have seen advocates, that is, they try to identify the fault, then they try to "fix" it.  My understanding of the MDLT philosophy is to understand the correct intent, and if a shot goes bad just keep focusing on the correct intent, not what the "mistake" was.

[wlitwa]

1 hour ago, tm3 said:

And IMO that is one of the biggest keys to the whole MDLT philosophy, and it is 180 degrees from what most golfers that I have played with do on the course and 180 degrees from what most instruction that I have seen advocates, that is, they try to identify the fault, then they try to "fix" it.  My understanding of the MDLT philosophy is to understand the correct intent, and if a shot goes bad just keep focusing on the correct intent, not what the "mistake" was.

That is correct,

In casual conversations between Manuel de la Torre and Bill Newkirk., a fellow Teaching Professional, Manuel would be more direct with his comments to a fellow Teaching Professional than he would be with the average student because he wanted the Teaching Professional to improve his knowledge and be a positive reflection of the profession. 

Bill “But if you want to get better.” 

MANUEL – “You keep on practicing.” 

Bill: “But you have to practice your weaknesses.” 

MANUEL - “No, no, you practice what you have to do. I never felt that I had any weakness in my game.” 

Bill – “Okay Manuel but other people do.”

MANUEL – “That’s beside the point. You’re talking about me.” 

Bill “Okay. Alright.” 

MANUEL - “I never felt I had any weaknesses. I had to do what my father told me to do and if I did that, I didn’t have any problems. But none of you get to that point. You’re always figuring out something, and I never did. Because you either swing it the way that you’re supposed to, or you don’t.” 

[Shilgy]

On 10/31/2023 at 7:33 AM, wlitwa said:

That is correct,

 

In casual conversations between Manuel de la Torre and Bill Newkirk., a fellow Teaching Professional, Manuel would be more direct with his comments to a fellow Teaching Professional than he would be with the average student because he wanted the Teaching Professional to improve his knowledge and be a positive reflection of the profession. 

Bill “But if you want to get better.” 

MANUEL – “You keep on practicing.” 

Bill: “But you have to practice your weaknesses.” 

MANUEL - “No, no, you practice what you have to do. I never felt that I had any weakness in my game.” 

Bill – “Okay Manuel but other people do.”

MANUEL – “That’s beside the point. You’re talking about me.” 

Bill “Okay. Alright.” 

MANUEL - “I never felt I had any weaknesses. I had to do what my father told me to do and if I did that, I didn’t have any problems. But none of you get to that point. You’re always figuring out something, and I never did. Because you either swing it the way that you’re supposed to, or you don’t.” 

It’s important to note that Manuel was a very good player…but that’s beside the point being made.  It does not matter if you are a great player or beginner working with an instructor.  Learn to do what is right and you will get good results IF YOU DO IT.  If you had a poor shot you do not need attempt to analyze what you did wrong…just go swing at the next shot with the plan to swing the way you get good results.

 

Does that some too simplistic for some? Why?  Why would it possibly be better to attempt to fix one fault and then another and then another instead of just going to what you know works.

 

It’s illogical but it is what many players attempt to do….just keep fixin’.

[Nels55]

22 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

It’s important to note that Manuel was a very good player…but that’s beside the point being made.  It does not matter if you are a great player or beginner working with an instructor.  Learn to do what is right and you will get good results IF YOU DO IT.  If you had a poor shot you do not need attempt to analyze what you did wrong…just go swing at the next shot with the plan to swing the way you get good results.

 

Does that some too simplistic for some? Why?  Why would it possibly be better to attempt to fix one fault and then another and then another instead of just going to what you know works.

 

It’s illogical but it is what many players attempt to do….just keep fixin’.

In the book "Understanding the Golf Swing" there is a chapter titled "Cause and Effect and Corrections".  It consists of instruction on how to correct different ball flights.  So, I get the idea that you present but if your swing goes way off then you still need to figure out why and apply the correction.  

 

For many really good players golf is a game of constant adjustment to keep the swing on track and the ball flying on target with the desired spin and trajectory.

[Shilgy]

8 hours ago, Nels55 said:

In the book "Understanding the Golf Swing" there is a chapter titled "Cause and Effect and Corrections".  It consists of instruction on how to correct different ball flights.  So, I get the idea that you present but if your swing goes way off then you still need to figure out why and apply the correction.  

 

For many really good players golf is a game of constant adjustment to keep the swing on track and the ball flying on target with the desired spin and trajectory.

   

True, but I would say not on the golf course.  It really is a chapter of where you are astray based on the flight, as you say, and what you need to do and the problems that will arise if you stray.

 

Two ways to look at it.

 

(that feels poorly written but you get the gist)

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

   

True, but I would say not on the golf course.  It really is a chapter of where you are astray based on the flight, as you say, and what you need to do and the problems that will arise if you stray.

 

Two ways to look at it.

 

(that feels poorly written but you get the gist)

Most everything that I write here feels poorly written, it is difficult to get exactly what I am thinking through the keyboard.  Once in a while I get one that I think is pretty good and then someone points out that I am way off with what I so eloquently said LOL.

 

If your swing goes off during a round you have to be able to correct.  For instance Manuel has shank correction drill and if you start shanking during the round it would be a good idea to use the drill right away.  That is an extreme example but the same applies if you start consistently pulling every shot, you need to know why and what fundamental part of the swing is screwed up so you can apply the correct fix.  Feel is not real and it is not possible for me or for most folks I believe to simply feel the stuff that Manuel de la Torre recommends and magically hit the ball well.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Most everything that I write here feels poorly written, it is difficult to get exactly what I am thinking through the keyboard.  Once in a while I get one that I think is pretty good and then someone points out that I am way off with what I so eloquently said LOL.

 

If your swing goes off during a round you have to be able to correct.  For instance Manuel has shank correction drill and if you start shanking during the round it would be a good idea to use the drill right away.  That is an extreme example but the same applies if you start consistently pulling every shot, you need to know why and what fundamental part of the swing is screwed up so you can apply the correct fix.  Feel is not real and it is not possible for me or for most folks I believe to simply feel the stuff that Manuel de la Torre recommends and magically hit the ball well.

That I can agree with to an extent.  We all know the benefits of playing golf instead of golf swing. What I am referring to is the constant “adjustments” made by some players in an attempt to instantly “correct every (bad) shot”.  Every shot seems to be a litany of swing thoughts that seem to work for a hole or two and then on to something else.

 

Rather than thinking “what did I do wrong” I prefer to think of “what did I not do that I know provides good results”?  Then use what I know works on ensuing swings.

[mocokid]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:17 PM, Shilgy said:

That I can agree with to an extent.  We all know the benefits of playing golf instead of golf swing. What I am referring to is the constant “adjustments” made by some players in an attempt to instantly “correct every (bad) shot”.  Every shot seems to be a litany of swing thoughts that seem to work for a hole or two and then on to something else.

 

Rather than thinking “what did I do wrong” I prefer to think of “what did I not do that I know provides good results”?  Then use what I know works on ensuing swings.

MDLT swing drill: Try hitting balls from a fairway bunker.  You need to keep your weight even on both feet, and you need to make a very good pure hands/arm swing.  Body movement needs to be minimized for clean contact by keeping weight 50-50 thru contact. Try it.  

Edited November 6, 2023 by mocokid

[mocokid]

On 10/30/2023 at 3:30 PM, wlitwa said:

fried121,

I still dabble with The Pro.

Dan's concept, similar to Ernest Jones and MDLT, is an effortless feel to the swing (see Martha Nause's saying this in the video above). My tendency is muscular tension - casting, and using my hands (Ernest Jones: "Tension is an insurmountable barrier to swinging." Also see Lesson #77 in "Learning Golf with Manuel", with muscular tension distance goes first and then direction and Ed LeBeau's #3 Legacy video where Manuel says, "Men have a tendency to be very muscular oriented and using their muscles instead of using the club to work your muscles. Just like when you try to extend, all you're doing  is creating tension, you are not particularly making a good swing."). If "swing the clubhead",  "swing the whole club forward with your (upper) arms" or "swing The Pro keeping the handle and rope straight" does not resonate, another way of trying to communicate a correct swinging motion is David Lee's "Gravity Golf", counterfall with the body and gently turn. Golf is a lifetime project, enjoy the journey.

Who is Dan?

[The Pearl]

Some thoughts:

 

1.  If you are laying the club off in the backswing due to top-hand dominance, along with having the intent to swing the club back with both hands, you might want to be aware of the tension in your lead arm all the way through your shoulder.  In my case if I have a crap ton of tension through my upper arms and shoulders/upper back, I will often initiate the backswing with my upper left arm and simply twist the club back.

 

2. Tension in the lead arm is also a forward swing killer. The old tip of "pull down with the lead arm" has probably ruined many a golfers. I am pretty certain Manny's emphasis on using both arms on the forward swing was in part to counter act golfer's desire to pull down hard with the left arm.

 

3. In terms of "not making a turn", there is of course, no such thing in Manny's system.  I am going editorialize here and these are my own thoughts:  Manny once said something to the effect " the club turns the golfer".  Modern instruction has emphasized "keeping the clubhead outside of the hands on the backswing".  In my experience in watching several of my golfing buddies try to execute this always result in a club that goes way away from them on the backswing.   

 

Two results regarding the backswing:  If you take the club too far away you won't turn. If you whip the club inside, you have to lift eventually. 

 

Here is my controversial statement which may or not be correct:  Manual's system operates way, way more from the inside than what is taught in modern golf. They all want you to approach the ball from the inside, but they want you to keep the club outside the hands AND than shallow the club. A bit insane if you ask me.

 

There might be a better way?

 

There is an article where Johnathan Kaye, a touring pro years ago who as a last resort went to Manuel. Legend has it that Manny watched Kaye hit several balls.  Manny than walked in behind the golf ball on the target line and stood about 18 inches behind the ball and told Kaye to hit the ball. Of course Kaye was scared to death he was going to hit Manuel. Kaye apparently started crushing the ball.  End of lesson.

 

There are variations of this drill. You can set a coin, ball marker, or tee about 18 inches or so just inside the target line and attempt to retrace the path on the forward swing. My preferred method is to put something on the target line like a head cover, etc.  Just swing inside the head cover. You will have to work with the head cover distances from the ball. Too far away and you will see no change in how the club moves. Too close and you will feel unnatural and cramped. You can combine this with taking the slow motion swings back to the address position as Manny recommends in the book. 

 

Results:

 

1.  If you roll the club over inside, your brain will know coming over the top will result in heading the training aide.  If you push the club away you will head the aide on the backswing. In order to hit the ball your brain and body will naturally find the proper tension, the proper takeaway, and the proper swing path.

 

2. Combine this with the two foot drill and this is only drill I use if I feel I am going of track. 

 

3. When I took my lessons with Manny we mostly only hit short irons, so work with those to start out.

 

As a fun test, if you have a willing playing partner or range rat buddy, stand opposite and behind them on the safe side of the target line and use a club with grip down and set it behind the golfer, on the target line as I suggested. Tell them you will not move the club and they have to swing inside of it.  IT FREAKS everybody out because for most people they perceive the swing to feel over the top. 

 

In my 3 lessons the main two points of emphasis was always tension and getting the hands out of the swing. 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by The Pearl

[tm3]

On 11/9/2023 at 10:13 AM, The Pearl said:

 

 

2. Combine this with the two foot drill 

 

 

 

In my 3 lessons the main two points of emphasis was always tension and getting the hands out of the swing. 

 

 

Thanks for commenting.  It is always nice to hear from those who worked with MDLT in person.  I miss juststeve's input.

 

What is the two foot drill?

[The Pearl]

21 hours ago, tm3 said:

Thanks for commenting.  It is always nice to hear from those who worked with MDLT in person.  I miss juststeve's input.

 

What is the two foot drill?

 

Hit balls with your feet together.  Juststeve always promoted hitting buckets and buckets of balls with this drill. It promotes all of MDLT's  concepts in a single drill.

[tm3]

1 hour ago, The Pearl said:

 

Hit balls with your feet together.  Juststeve always promoted hitting buckets and buckets of balls with this drill. It promotes all of MDLT's  concepts in a single drill.

Got it, thanks!  I call it the "feet together drill" and I think that juststeve once said that "feet a couple inches apart" is even better.  I never got much out of the slow takeaway, slow return to the ball drill but apparently MDLT thought it a very good one also.

[The Pearl]

22 hours ago, tm3 said:

Got it, thanks!  I call it the "feet together drill" and I think that juststeve once said that "feet a couple inches apart" is even better.  I never got much out of the slow takeaway, slow return to the ball drill but apparently MDLT thought it a very good one also.

 

Whatever works in terms of not hurting yourself. I use a few inches apart.  Yes, I agree with you, the slow-motion swing back and returning to the address position has never resonated with me, also. 

[mocokid]

On 10/30/2023 at 6:08 PM, LDM said:

I have been trying MDLT swing method for about a month.  Bought his book and watched as many videos as I could find.  My HCI hovers around 10.  I am definitely more consistent but tend to have shorter distances.  I believe the distance issue is more from hitting lower on the club face than previously.  During setup, using MDLT method, and considering a small offset built into the clubs, do you setup with hands in middle and ball slightly back of center to get the "4th groove" contact?  Setting my club in middle with shaft also in middle places face of club at lower grooves.  Also, with driver, do you place club in middle and ball forward and just swing normally and catch ball on slight upswing? 

I definitely feel better (my back especially) after a round using MDLT.  Much more relaxed swing.  But I would like to get some yardage back.  400+ yard par 4's are difficult to reach in two now. 

You answered your question. With the offset in the irons, the butt of club points to middle of body (belt buckle,  fly, belly button) while club head is behind the middle due to offset.  4th  groove.  I've seen pics in Manny's book, and it looks like the iron club head is ahead of the middle.  I've always played with ball forward just inside the left heel and  John Hayes, a lifetime mdlt instructor corrected me down in Florida this month. Now it feels like the ball is way back but it is not really. Butt is pointing at the center of my body, club head about 1 ball back of center for your short and mid irons. It then changes for long irons and woods.

[PJ Blake]

On 10/29/2023 at 12:10 PM, fried121 said:

Curious what this group thinks about Dan Martin and his training aid called the pro:  

 

 

Would this seem to mesh with MDLT’s teachings?

 

 

 

 

I've been watching Dan's videos almost every day the past couple weeks. First of all I think Dan is quite skilled at marketing his little gadget, but that doesn't mean what he's selling isn't worthy of exploration. He isn't really teaching anything new in terms of a swing philosophy. As mentioned, it's in the same wheelhouse as MDLT and also Jim Flick. He just puts scientific (physics) terms to the swing and he views the swing holistically. These terms, right out of a physics textbook, likely appeal to many scientifically minded players, not necessarily the analytical players who need to break down every tiny aspect of the swing (positions, mechanics, etc). He claims that the way to feel the swing, or the physics of the correct swing, cannot be experienced with a golf club, which has a rigid shaft, but, thankfully 🤣 the correct "feel" can be experienced with his PRO Swing Trainer. He has a video explaining why his swing trainer is better than just a plain rope. It's all one neat little sales package...and it seems to be somewhat effective I suppose. Luckily I was gifted a used PRO Swing Trainer because I wasn't about to pay close to 100 bucks for this simple, cheaply made device. I mean, you can easily make one of these things. Of course I don't get the benefit of his coaching through the CoachNow app you get when ordering the PRO on his website, but he has many videos, much of it repetitive, so not sure how much more I'd get from a quick CoachNow lesson. Having said all that about his rather cerebral sales job, it resonated with me simply because I'm trying to swing freely with good rhythm and without interference from swing thoughts, tension and obsession with positions. So I'm giving it a go...at least for now. 

 

 

 

Edited January 20 by PJ Blake

[OnRails]

I've only been playing for a couple of years now. No real instruction other than a buddy that introduced me to the game. Very much a fire the hips and use the big muscles kind of guy. I just couldn't get it. 

 

We play every week generally. I'm in North Carolina so the courses are open year round. I've gotten to where I can score around 100 but have stalled. I was looking for a light bulb moment like many others and stumbled across MDLT. 

 

I have the book as of this week and have watched all of the videos available on YouTube. Also read through this thread. This just resonates with me. I've decided to commit to it for the season. 

[DaveLeeNC]

@OnRails Something to be cautious about here. I gave MDLT a serious pass last year. The results were basically mixed, but it sure was simple. After that  I decided to get serious about the state of my game. My first video review (with a teacher well respected here on WRX) would be summarized as "I had no turn or wrist set and I was just wiping my arms across my chest". That (apparently) is how I internalized MDLT's teaching. 

 

I am not saying that it cannot work. But (in my case) the phrase 'things should be made as simple as possible but not any simpler than that' certainly applied. 

 

dave

Edited March 28 by DaveLeeNC

[Shilgy]

6 hours ago, DaveLeeNC said:

@OnRails Something to be cautious about here. I gave MDLT a serious pass last year. The results were basically mixed, but it sure was simple. After that  I decided to get serious about the state of my game. My first video review (with a teacher well respected here on WRX) would be summarized as "I had no turn or wrist set and I was just wiping my arms across my chest". That (apparently) is how I internalized MDLT's teaching. 

 

I am not saying that it cannot work. But (in my case) the phrase 'things should be made as simple as possible but not any simpler than that' certainly applied. 

 

dave

As you say….essentially you were not doing what he taught.   You could warn against any swing idea that way.