What is going on with Matrix Shafts?

[stage1350]

If he had an account, he has to be a distributor. Therefore, he is subject to the terms of the MAP pricing.

 

This auction is being run by a private entity. Therefore, they are not bound by MAP. I'm sure someone felt a twinge in their snaggletooth and felt the need to flip through their rolodex and call up Matrix and have them do a little silverbacking.

 

Matrix is looking foolish the longer that they remain silent on this. They should send an appppppppology to Drew. Perhaps, after talking to him, they'll be "good."

[MrBlack]

Q: Don't you realize that if you sell this shaft you will be leaving yards on the table? Mar-13-07

 

A: I hit the ball so far now that I don't play courses as the original architect intended. I'm in the middle of a "self-rollback".

 

freakin' priceless

[ckay]

Q: Don't you realize that if you sell this shaft you will be leaving yards on the table? Mar-13-07

 

A: I hit the ball so far now that I don't play courses as the original architect intended. I'm in the middle of a "self-rollback".

 

freakin' priceless

Those comments are hilarious

[Gxgolfer]

Ok Guys,

 

I left this open for a specific reason. Please keep it directly on topic and without insults or derogatory comments.

[shaftnut]

Alot of the higher end shaft and component companys have a "No Ebay" policy, to protect their stocking dealers.

 

Now, I'm not saying the President of Matrix handled this correctly by any fashion. But I do understand

his reasoning for trying to find out how you got the shaft in question. Once you gave him the serial number it should have ended there,,, then he should go spank the dealer you bought it from. Thats usually how it works..Now I know this sounds terrible,,, but at the prices he charges,, he really needs to stand up for his stocking dealers that do follow the rules..

[Topspin2]

GX - 'preciate you keeping it open. These things have a way of working themselves out BECAUSE of open forums like this one and a little thing called free speech.

Many of us like and play the company product. We'd just like their approach to the market be up to par with the type of upstanding citizens we are.

This reminds me of the uproar over PING not extending certain discounts to military. The Internet and public opinion is a powerful thing!

Again, ya gotta love and respect what golfwrx.com has done here for freedom of expression.

 

T

[nobogey]

Do not hammer me for this,as this has nothing to do with my posting on other sites. BTW I also support Ping for protecting their brand and retailers as well(we don't make that much money=20% markup is standard). Obviously,they must be having a problem with distribution or theft(Accra had a similar problem some time back). I could see someone being unhappy that they received stolen goods,but why be mad at the OEM? They are protecting their product,and once it was deemed stolen they will pursue it. Once they have informed you it was stolen,you cannot sell it,as it is evidence of a crime. Once you are informed of this you cannot claim ignorance as well if your continue to sell it. Yes,that sucks from a money perspective,and from a personal perspective of getting taken,but it happens. Most manufacturers assist those taken especially if they are forthcoming. If not it is indeed their mistake.

[HeadonaStick]

Do not hammer me for this,as this has nothing to do with my posting on other sites. BTW I also support Ping for protecting their brand and retailers as well(we don't make that much money=20% markup is standard). Obviously,they must be having a problem with distribution or theft(Accra had a similar problem some time back). I could see someone being unhappy that they received stolen goods,but why be mad at the OEM? They are protecting their product,and once it was deemed stolen they will pursue it. Once they have informed you it was stolen,you cannot sell it,as it is evidence of a crime. Once you are informed of this you cannot claim ignorance as well if your continue to sell it. Yes,that sucks from a money perspective,and from a personal perspective of getting taken,but it happens. Most manufacturers assist those taken especially if they are forthcoming. If not it is indeed their mistake.

If it was stolen I suppose they need to pursue it - it doesn't sound like they know that this shaft was stolen. In fact, it doesn't sound like they know much about this shaft for sure. It sounds like they are guessing and trying to intimidate.

 

Matrix simply made several general statements and those statments are open to debate. In any case, the email(s) did not state that the shaft in question is stolen.

[stage1350]

IF it was stolen, you'd be correct, Matt. And IF it was proven that it was stolen goods, I'm sure that Drew would cooperate with them to help bring the criminals to justice, since he would be a victim.

 

But that is absolute speculation. The only people that can prove that the shaft is indeed tainted goods is Matrix. This thread has been open for over a day. They have been seen reading this thread. They have spent the time to contact and threaten the seller. But now that the question is raised, they run silent and deep?

 

MCC, the emails that have been printed paint a horrible picture of your company. The stance that you take that you can bully individuals is not only unprofessional, but the fact that you will not come on here and either confirm or deny the authenticity of the shaft speaks directly to your customer service or lack thereof.

 

The ball is in your court, Matrix. You should print an explanation or print an apology to Drew. He is a respected member of these boards and has done business with many of us without ever having a problem. To threaten his reputation with eBay is skating dangerously close to defamation of character.

 

The longer you remain silent, the more customers you lose.

[Asleep]

Let's not jump on Matrix/Mr. Beeson until we know the facts. Matrix has been pretty good about participating on internet golf forums and explaining their product.

 

I believe Matrix has registered on Golfwrx, and I'm guessing they'll reply and clear this up when able.

[joey3108]

INTERESTING!!!

 

I drove 5 hrs today to attend a senior tour Pro Am event, and Now I'm seeing this? (cool)

 

Hmm! I'm gonna sit tight and read after the event and open my ears while i'm here.

[gjones77]

I'm going to have to agree with Asleep on this one, let Matrix tell us their side of the story.

 

We're really only hearing one side and making snap decisions from that, not always a good idea.

[Gxgolfer]

To sum up:

 

Matrix is sending these letters/email out to people. Whether its from JC Beeson in every occurence is not known but, it is an official Matrix communication.

 

Matrix claims they have had shafts stolen from the PGA Tour.

 

Matrix claims that there are counterfeit copies of their shafts going around. (I had not heard this before)

 

Matrix wants only authorized dealers and distributors to sell new/uncut shafts on the Internet and advertised at MAP prices.

 

If sent the email, you provide the serial number and then you are clear.

 

A company has the right to protect their brand and supply. How they go about it is up to each company decision. Obviously there are two sides to each situation but, according to Matrix, the Internet is only a small part of their business. Their actions are seem self explanatory and I don't know why they would respond in public to a possible legal action they may take against anyone.

[Double Rods]

I've been in contact with JC and I plan on resolving the issue over the phone with him this morning.

 

I will let you guys know what is up.

 

-Drew

[HeadonaStick]

To sum up:

 

Matrix is sending these letters/email out to people. Whether its from JC Beeson in every occurence is not known but, it is an official Matrix communication.

Agreed.

 

Matrix claims they have had shafts stolen from the PGA Tour.

They claim that - but they can claim anything they want.

Matrix claims that there are counterfeit copies of their shafts going around. (I had not heard this before)

Probably.

Matrix wants only authorized dealers and distributors to sell new/uncut shafts on the Internet and advertised at MAP prices.

Then their beef is with their distributors, not private individuals.

 

If sent the email, you provide the serial number and then you are clear.

 

That would appear to be untrue from the email exchange provided.

 

A company has the right to protect their brand and supply. How they go about it is up to each company decision.

 

Yes, they have a right to protect their brand and supply. However, like all rights, that right is not absolute.

 

Obviously there are two sides to each situation but, according to Matrix, the Internet is only a small part of their business. Their actions are seem self explanatory and I don't know why they would respond in public to a possible legal action they may take against anyone.

I would think they would respond because there is (hopefully) a miscommunication. If the emails are accurate then Matrix has resorted to intimidation and bullying tactics to stiffle private enterprise and infringed on the rights that private parties enjoy when selling their property.

 

I have not seen an appropriate police agency report, or even a reference to said report. Without that, there is no obligation to answer their emails or provide a serial number. As it is there are a few vague, generic statements (that are open to a great deal of debate) that appear to be aimed at coercing a private individual to end a sale of his property because Matrix finds the sale unapealing.

 

I would think that Matrix would want to clear up the misunderstanding, even if they choose to refrain from public discussion of the particulars of any potential legal action.

[gjones77]

Well, Drew said he was in phone contact with J.C Beeson concerning this matter, so we can just let them sort it out.

 

None the less, when you look at things from a business perspective, a person gets one of your shafts from a private party/non authorized retail distributor, and the shaft is a counterfeit and doesn't perform to standards expected from a shaft of that cost it does hurt the image of the company since this person doesn't realize that the shaft is a knock off.

 

And as for a shaft from the tour van being stolen, or even sold by a guy on the van without the company's permission, that's still stolen property and if that shaft is a prototype made for 1 particular pro or just a test model, then that also falls into the "doesn't perform as expected" and can further hurt that company's image if the person who used that shaft decides to start a topic on a board like this bashing the shaft.

 

So from a business perspective you want to eliminate counterfeit/stole product from getting into the market and hurting your brand image.

 

Now, how they go about enforcing these policies is up to the particular company, but finding where a stolen piece of product came from, and tracing that back to the source to stop the leaking of equipment is more in the interest of both the consumer and the company since it really protects both from losing money, one from spending $100's on nefarious equipment, and one from losing a hard earned image.

[Double Rods]

This would have never been an issue if it weren't for the inflammatory tone taken my Matrix. In my first email to Matrix I clearly stated that I would like for JC to call me to resolve the issue. Instead I got the second email blasting me. I then responded for him to call me again to resolve the matter personally. When I didn't get the call, I posted in this thread to see if others have experienced the same problems. It has all gone downhill from there. It wasn't until after the internet firestorm that I got a call last night from JC wanting to work things out.

 

At face value, their intentions were not to start all this commotion and they want to make it right with me.

 

Nothing else needs to be speculated at this point.

 

-Drew

[zing2006]

I recently purchased a couple Altus shafts and will throw in my $.02. There are places that you can buy these shafts for a lot of money and there are places that you can find deals. I think the places that are trying to get top dollar for the shafts have a greater influence on Matrix and can ask for changes to be made to protect the market price. I purchased an Altus HB for $160 that sells for $249 in other places. I also purchased an Xcon Altus Proto for $325 that sells for $449 in other places. My guess is that the dealers who promote and sell a larger amount of the Matrix line want to keep the prices high and stop any attempts to "under value" the products. I just hope that Matrix stops taking (bad) advise from people known for making bad decisions.

[jimbonecrusher]

let me get this right. Since I own a Matrix MFS tour Prototype-D, and if I decide to sell it, they are going to send me a nasty gram telling me to pull the ad, even though I bought it off of ebay?

 

Now on the other hand, if I decide to install this shaft into a head, and it doesn't perform well (for me), people are actually dumb enough to listen to my ranting, even though they know that it is a Prototype tour shaft?

 

This is crazy. Sure, if Matrix wanted to, I would give them the serial number of the shaft. I have read that this shaft was on the same model that was tested by many tour players last year. I picked it up cheap and won't lie about that. That is the reason why I got it.

 

I guess the thing that gets me the most, is the way that they tried to bully over the littly guy. I guess they think that the private seller doesn't know there rights, or know anybody who knows the laws. It just reaks of Matrix trying to be superior and the elitist.

 

Now that they have started this big issue, I can list it and ask an obscene about of money for this shaft. Yeah for me.

[gr8scott]

It’s to bad Matrix didn’t make a similar post to the following in regards to this member’s equipment being stolen,

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...hl=clubs+stolen

 

I think indoing so it would have a better impact enlisting all of the members aid of this and other sites to keep their eyes out for stolen shafts and perhaps even list the serial numbers of said stolen equipment. If they indeed track their shafts like they say they do I wouldn’t think this would be a problem. It seems that both the sellers & the buyers would be aware of if their goods were stolen in that case. At the same time Matrix would not have alienated their potential customers, which seem to be the case at some level in according to this thread.

 

Also, and I mean absolutely no disrespect to Matrix, but the following photo would indicate they might need to step up their security measures on tour to prevent this from happening in the future. But then again, they probably already have.

 

Just my .02

 

 

 

 

[stage1350]

To sum up:

 

Matrix is sending these letters/email out to people. Whether its from JC Beeson in every occurence is not known but, it is an official Matrix communication.

 

Matrix claims they have had shafts stolen from the PGA Tour.

 

Matrix claims that there are counterfeit copies of their shafts going around. (I had not heard this before)

 

Matrix wants only authorized dealers and distributors to sell new/uncut shafts on the Internet and advertised at MAP prices.

 

If sent the email, you provide the serial number and then you are clear.

 

A company has the right to protect their brand and supply. How they go about it is up to each company decision. Obviously there are two sides to each situation but, according to Matrix, the Internet is only a small part of their business. Their actions are seem self explanatory and I don't know why they would respond in public to a possible legal action they may take against anyone.

 

And that's where I have a problem with this. If Matrix is allowing new/uncut shafts to be sold uninstalled then they have to expect the possibility of turnover. Perhaps some individual buys multiple shafts (as backups) and decides to unload the ones he ends up not using. Perhaps he was going to install them, but a swing change forces him to choose a different shaft. This is where Matrix will lose the argument. As long as they do not have an install only policy, they have to expect that a new/uncut shaft might get resold on the internet.

 

But since when did the burden of proof get heaped on the seller? Just because I'm listing a new/uncut shaft it must be automatically stolen? While I sympathize with the issue of internet counterfeits, the fact that Matrix jumps the gun and accuses you of having stolen property or possible fake goods without proof is unprofessional at a minimum. Harassment and defamation want to enter my mind when I read letters like that.

 

It is not the seller's obligation to disclose the serial, especially when it is obvious that Matrix is just looking to pull an account that may or may not have sold it according to MAP and Drew is just willing to take the loss to get rid of it.

 

This whole situation is a witch hunt and smells of bullying and strong arm tactics by a company that's trying to inflate their prices. There are still enough suckers out there that think expensive=the best even if the shaft doesn't fit you. This whole situation and the way that Matrix has handled it disgusts me and I hope the buying public makes them feel the pain of using such methods on the people that they are trying to make into customers.

[HeadonaStick]

Well, Drew said he was in phone contact with J.C Beeson concerning this matter, so we can just let them sort it out.

 

None the less, when you look at things from a business perspective, a person gets one of your shafts from a private party/non authorized retail distributor, and the shaft is a counterfeit and doesn't perform to standards expected from a shaft of that cost it does hurt the image of the company since this person doesn't realize that the shaft is a knock off.

 

And as for a shaft from the tour van being stolen, or even sold by a guy on the van without the company's permission, that's still stolen property and if that shaft is a prototype made for 1 particular pro or just a test model, then that also falls into the "doesn't perform as expected" and can further hurt that company's image if the person who used that shaft decides to start a topic on a board like this bashing the shaft.

 

So from a business perspective you want to eliminate counterfeit/stole product from getting into the market and hurting your brand image.

 

Now, how they go about enforcing these policies is up to the particular company, but finding where a stolen piece of product came from, and tracing that back to the source to stop the leaking of equipment is more in the interest of both the consumer and the company since it really protects both from losing money, one from spending $100's on nefarious equipment, and one from losing a hard earned image.

 

What shaft has been stolen?

 

What shaft is counterfeit?

 

Nobody has stated (including Matrix) that the shaft in question is either of these things.

 

The company does not have carte blanch to accuse, harrass and threaten private individuals. If there is reason to suspect this shaft is stolen, then contact the police. There is a report (if not then Matrix can kiss off as far as I am concerned) about the theft for a reason. There is no obligation to provide assistance or serial numbers to Matrix.

 

If the shaft is counterfeit then Matrix' responsibility is to let the consumer know and ask for the consumer's help in locating the original seller. It is still not the seller's responsibilty to provide serials to Matrix.

[gjones77]

Well, Drew said he was in phone contact with J.C Beeson concerning this matter, so we can just let them sort it out.

 

None the less, when you look at things from a business perspective, a person gets one of your shafts from a private party/non authorized retail distributor, and the shaft is a counterfeit and doesn't perform to standards expected from a shaft of that cost it does hurt the image of the company since this person doesn't realize that the shaft is a knock off.

 

And as for a shaft from the tour van being stolen, or even sold by a guy on the van without the company's permission, that's still stolen property and if that shaft is a prototype made for 1 particular pro or just a test model, then that also falls into the "doesn't perform as expected" and can further hurt that company's image if the person who used that shaft decides to start a topic on a board like this bashing the shaft.

 

So from a business perspective you want to eliminate counterfeit/stole product from getting into the market and hurting your brand image.

 

Now, how they go about enforcing these policies is up to the particular company, but finding where a stolen piece of product came from, and tracing that back to the source to stop the leaking of equipment is more in the interest of both the consumer and the company since it really protects both from losing money, one from spending $100's on nefarious equipment, and one from losing a hard earned image.

 

What shaft has been stolen?

 

What shaft is counterfeit?

 

Nobody has stated (including Matrix) that the shaft in question is either of these things.

 

The company does not have carte blanch to accuse, harrass and threaten private individuals. If there is reason to suspect this shaft is stolen, then contact the police. There is a report (if not then Matrix can kiss off as far as I am concerned) about the theft for a reason. There is no obligation to provide assistance or serial numbers to Matrix.

 

If the shaft is counterfeit then Matrix' responsibility is to let the consumer know and ask for the consumer's help in locating the original seller. It is still not the seller's responsibilty to provide serials to Matrix.

 

Now I never said that either was the case, I just stated I can understand things from a company's stand point.

 

Now I'm not defending Matrix or Drew, I'm just offering a different point of view, I have no dog in this fight.

 

So if you don't agree with me, fine I have no problem with that, no need to launch into attack mode here.

 

So take a deep breath and realize not everyone will agree with you, just like not everyone will agree with me.

 

You're making your point after hearing only one side of the argument, detach yourself from this emotionally and then look at it from both points of view, like people in a civilized world do.

[stage1350]

Well, Drew said he was in phone contact with J.C Beeson concerning this matter, so we can just let them sort it out.

 

None the less, when you look at things from a business perspective, a person gets one of your shafts from a private party/non authorized retail distributor, and the shaft is a counterfeit and doesn't perform to standards expected from a shaft of that cost it does hurt the image of the company since this person doesn't realize that the shaft is a knock off.

 

And as for a shaft from the tour van being stolen, or even sold by a guy on the van without the company's permission, that's still stolen property and if that shaft is a prototype made for 1 particular pro or just a test model, then that also falls into the "doesn't perform as expected" and can further hurt that company's image if the person who used that shaft decides to start a topic on a board like this bashing the shaft.

 

So from a business perspective you want to eliminate counterfeit/stole product from getting into the market and hurting your brand image.

 

Now, how they go about enforcing these policies is up to the particular company, but finding where a stolen piece of product came from, and tracing that back to the source to stop the leaking of equipment is more in the interest of both the consumer and the company since it really protects both from losing money, one from spending $100's on nefarious equipment, and one from losing a hard earned image.

 

What shaft has been stolen?

 

What shaft is counterfeit?

 

Nobody has stated (including Matrix) that the shaft in question is either of these things.

 

The company does not have carte blanch to accuse, harrass and threaten private individuals. If there is reason to suspect this shaft is stolen, then contact the police. There is a report (if not then Matrix can kiss off as far as I am concerned) about the theft for a reason. There is no obligation to provide assistance or serial numbers to Matrix.

 

If the shaft is counterfeit then Matrix' responsibility is to let the consumer know and ask for the consumer's help in locating the original seller. It is still not the seller's responsibilty to provide serials to Matrix.

 

Now I never said that either was the case, I just stated I can understand things from a company's stand point.

 

Now I'm not defending Matrix or Drew, I'm just offering a different point of view, I have no dog in this fight.

 

So if you don't agree with me, fine I have no problem with that, no need to launch into attack mode here.

 

So take a deep breath and realize not everyone will agree with you, just like not everyone will agree with me.

 

You're making your point after hearing only one side of the argument, detach yourself from this emotionally and then look at it from both points of view, like people in a civilized world do.

 

IF the shaft were counterfeit (and most counterfeits can be spotted by the trained eyes on this board) I would agree that the OEM being counterfeited would want to do what is necessary to protect their brand name.

 

As for the Tour Van leakage, that's a slippery slope. A lot of the allure of these sites is the "Tour Issue" equipment that comes out of the vans. There are people that make a living doing nothing but acquiring Tour Van equipment and selling it for whatever price they can get someone to pay. Are they dealing in stolen goods? What about the Pro that gives a looper a new driver in lieu of cash? The caddy needs the money, so he flips it on the internet. Is he dealing in stolen property, or selling a gift that he has no use for?

 

The OEMs are to blame. Outside of Ping, very few companies track the serials on their Tour gear. The last time that TaylorMade was known to care was the release of the original R7 driver. Back then, serials were being sanded off so that the equipment could not be traced back to the professional that it was allocated to. Again, this is not an issue of stolen equipment, but of an OEM trying to track how their inventory is getting on eBay.

 

The difference is that the responsible companies don't silverback by throwing out legal terms or threaten to have auctions pulled. This is where Matrix crossed the line.

 

Regarding only hearing one side of the story, Matrixshafts has been seen in this thread on more than one occasion. After almost 48 hours, you would think that someone in their PR department could have crafted a response. I would be happy to listen to their side of the story, but it appears that is not going to happen. And this is one case where free publicity is not good.

[AcesAZ]

I agree with Matrix for trying to get counterfeit or stolen property off of Ebay but I don't agree with them trying to take the little guy and string him up for selling a shaft he just didn't use. Does Drew have an account with Matrix, Is it stolen, Is it counterfeit? If the answers are no to all of the above then Matrix needs to leave him alone and anyone else who decides to sell a shaft.

 

Note to Matrix- They really need to reconsider it's thousand dollar shaft price point. Very few people are willing to pay more then 300 on a shaft. I'd like to try their high end shafts but they are way too much $$$$.

 

I also have been threatened by another company on Ebay (non golf related, I'd rather keep them nameless). I was selling a brand new item with no reserve. They told me I needed to take down my auction or else but I refused and let it run. I knew they had no leg to stand on because I was not a dealer.

[jus]

(cool)

If you have legitimately bought a Matrix shaft then really everything is mute.

Not to be a pain, but the word is "moot" not "mute",

 

MOOT- 1. open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: a moot point.

2. of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

3. Chiefly Law. not actual; theoretical; hypothetical.

 

MUTE-1. silent; refraining from speech or utterance.

2. not emitting or having sound of any kind.

3. incapable of speech; dumb.

4. (of letters) silent; not pronounced.

 

Jesse Jackson made it famous years ago on SNL!

[gjones77]

If you have legitimately bought a Matrix shaft then really everything is mute.

Not to be a pain, but the word is "moot" not "mute",

 

MOOT- 1. open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: a moot point.

2. of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.

3. Chiefly Law. not actual; theoretical; hypothetical.

 

MUTE-1. silent; refraining from speech or utterance.

2. not emitting or having sound of any kind.

3. incapable of speech; dumb.

4. (of letters) silent; not pronounced.

 

Jesse Jackson made it famous years ago on SNL!

 

I noticed that earlier, but decided against saying anything, didn't want to drag things off topic (cool)

[zing2006]

I found a quote that may resolve this issue for all.

 

"Matrix has eliminated MAP pricing so XXX pricing is what all dealers must sell for, or they are in violation of their dealer agreements. There is a set price, and any dealer selling under that should be shut down. I feel, on a level playing field, with the testing and analysis we do, there is no reason to buy OZIK from anyone else".

 

Insert your own three letters into the XXX.

[HeadonaStick]

Well, Drew said he was in phone contact with J.C Beeson concerning this matter, so we can just let them sort it out.

 

None the less, when you look at things from a business perspective, a person gets one of your shafts from a private party/non authorized retail distributor, and the shaft is a counterfeit and doesn't perform to standards expected from a shaft of that cost it does hurt the image of the company since this person doesn't realize that the shaft is a knock off.

 

And as for a shaft from the tour van being stolen, or even sold by a guy on the van without the company's permission, that's still stolen property and if that shaft is a prototype made for 1 particular pro or just a test model, then that also falls into the "doesn't perform as expected" and can further hurt that company's image if the person who used that shaft decides to start a topic on a board like this bashing the shaft.

 

So from a business perspective you want to eliminate counterfeit/stole product from getting into the market and hurting your brand image.

 

Now, how they go about enforcing these policies is up to the particular company, but finding where a stolen piece of product came from, and tracing that back to the source to stop the leaking of equipment is more in the interest of both the consumer and the company since it really protects both from losing money, one from spending $100's on nefarious equipment, and one from losing a hard earned image.

 

What shaft has been stolen?

 

What shaft is counterfeit?

 

Nobody has stated (including Matrix) that the shaft in question is either of these things.

 

The company does not have carte blanch to accuse, harrass and threaten private individuals. If there is reason to suspect this shaft is stolen, then contact the police. There is a report (if not then Matrix can kiss off as far as I am concerned) about the theft for a reason. There is no obligation to provide assistance or serial numbers to Matrix.

 

If the shaft is counterfeit then Matrix' responsibility is to let the consumer know and ask for the consumer's help in locating the original seller. It is still not the seller's responsibilty to provide serials to Matrix.

 

Now I never said that either was the case, I just stated I can understand things from a company's stand point.

 

Now I'm not defending Matrix or Drew, I'm just offering a different point of view, I have no dog in this fight.

 

So if you don't agree with me, fine I have no problem with that, no need to launch into attack mode here.

 

So take a deep breath and realize not everyone will agree with you, just like not everyone will agree with me.

 

You're making your point after hearing only one side of the argument, detach yourself from this emotionally and then look at it from both points of view, like people in a civilized world do.

You are speculating, and then presenting an argument based on those speculations; I am forming an opinion after hearing both sides; Matrix has, in fact, provided their side in their emails. Those count, and if they are inaccurate then Matrix may want to sort them out and make clarifications.

 

It appears that you are defending this particular action, even if this was not your intention.

 

I agree, if a product is stolen or counterfeit then a company has a need to address those issues. That is a general statement, but this thread is about a particular instance.

 

Matrix has not asserted that the shaft in this case has been stolen; they don't get to proceed as if that assertion has been made (let alone demonstrated to be accurate) and we can't judge this situation as if that assertion has been made. We should judge the situation and Matrix, as we would anyone, on their actual words and actions.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight either. I don't own a Matrix shaft and I have no intentions of buying a high end Matrix - although I was looking at the MFS Orange for my HiBore.

 

I am also not in "attack mode." Disagreement is not an attack. I asked very specific questions for a very specific reason. I hope that reason is clear now - Matrix never said the shaft was stolen so a discussion based on what a company should or should not do when their product is stolen doesn't apply here.

[gjones77]

Well, Drew said he was in phone contact with J.C Beeson concerning this matter, so we can just let them sort it out.

 

None the less, when you look at things from a business perspective, a person gets one of your shafts from a private party/non authorized retail distributor, and the shaft is a counterfeit and doesn't perform to standards expected from a shaft of that cost it does hurt the image of the company since this person doesn't realize that the shaft is a knock off.

 

And as for a shaft from the tour van being stolen, or even sold by a guy on the van without the company's permission, that's still stolen property and if that shaft is a prototype made for 1 particular pro or just a test model, then that also falls into the "doesn't perform as expected" and can further hurt that company's image if the person who used that shaft decides to start a topic on a board like this bashing the shaft.

 

So from a business perspective you want to eliminate counterfeit/stole product from getting into the market and hurting your brand image.

 

Now, how they go about enforcing these policies is up to the particular company, but finding where a stolen piece of product came from, and tracing that back to the source to stop the leaking of equipment is more in the interest of both the consumer and the company since it really protects both from losing money, one from spending $100's on nefarious equipment, and one from losing a hard earned image.

 

What shaft has been stolen?

 

What shaft is counterfeit?

 

Nobody has stated (including Matrix) that the shaft in question is either of these things.

 

The company does not have carte blanch to accuse, harrass and threaten private individuals. If there is reason to suspect this shaft is stolen, then contact the police. There is a report (if not then Matrix can kiss off as far as I am concerned) about the theft for a reason. There is no obligation to provide assistance or serial numbers to Matrix.

 

If the shaft is counterfeit then Matrix' responsibility is to let the consumer know and ask for the consumer's help in locating the original seller. It is still not the seller's responsibilty to provide serials to Matrix.

 

Now I never said that either was the case, I just stated I can understand things from a company's stand point.

 

Now I'm not defending Matrix or Drew, I'm just offering a different point of view, I have no dog in this fight.

 

So if you don't agree with me, fine I have no problem with that, no need to launch into attack mode here.

 

So take a deep breath and realize not everyone will agree with you, just like not everyone will agree with me.

 

You're making your point after hearing only one side of the argument, detach yourself from this emotionally and then look at it from both points of view, like people in a civilized world do.

You are speculating, and then presenting an argument based on those speculations; I am forming an opinion after hearing both sides; Matrix has, in fact, provided their side in their emails. Those count, and if they are inaccurate then Matrix may want to sort them out and make clarifications.

 

It appears that you are defending this particular action, even if this was not your intention.

 

I agree, if a product is stolen or counterfeit then a company has a need to address those issues. That is a general statement, but this thread is about a particular instance.

 

Matrix has not asserted that the shaft in this case has been stolen; they don't get to proceed as if that assertion has been made (let alone demonstrated to be accurate) and we can't judge this situation as if that assertion has been made. We should judge the situation and Matrix, as we would anyone, on their actual words and actions.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight either. I don't own a Matrix shaft and I have no intentions of buying a high end Matrix - although I was looking at the MFS Orange for my HiBore.

 

I am also not in "attack mode." Disagreement is not an attack. I asked very specific questions for a very specific reason. I hope that reason is clear now - Matrix never said the shaft was stolen so a discussion based on what a company should or should not do when their product is stolen doesn't apply here.

 

I've also received a few e-mails from Mr. Beeson at Matrix, they were in response to my e-mail stating my displeasure with how the company was going about this.

 

He let me know that one sentence was left out of the original copy and pasted e-mail conversation with the person they contacted on eBay, and that sentence was

 

“I bought this shaft about 6 months ago from a guy who got it from a Tour van here in Houston.”

 

So Matrix's wanting to find out how it got from the tour van to eBay is understandable, can they harass a guy on eBay?

 

No, I feel going about it that was was wrong, but asking for the serial so they could trace it back to a certain van at a certain time can help them in preventing leaks.

 

Matrix isn't 100% innocent in this, they handled the initial contact poorly, but I can see their reasons for the initial contact, just not the tone.

 

*****EDIT WITH MORE INFO*****

 

Here is a copy of the email that I received in response, in it's entirety.

 

"Greg,

 

 

 

Thank you for your email. I apologize that recently online posts have swayed your opinion of Matrix.

 

 

 

It does hurt to hear the comments regarding our policies. It is probably more troubling to hear them after only one side of a story has been presented. Unfortunately, the emails that where cut-and-pasted onto web forums left out phrases like:

 

 

 

“I bought this shaft about 6 months ago from a guy who got it from a Tour van here in Houston.”

 

 

 

But in the next email, and freely posted online:

 

 

 

“This shaft was not stolen or "taken" from a PGA Tour van.”

 

 

 

Perhaps, and I hope, that the mistake was in way I interrupted the quote from this seller. I think many people would read this quote as an admission that the item was not purchased legitimately. If I was at fault, I think the proper thing to do would be to contact me and to better explain the situation. At that time, with a legitimate explanation, I would offer my complete and humble apology. Unfortunately, the person in question chose another route. I have since put in phone calls to this gentleman in hopes that we can figure out where the breakdown occurred and leave this on a good note.

 

 

 

We do allow our Matrix Authorized Dealers to use Ebay as a selling tool. However, as requested by our customers, our dealers follow certain guidelines in listing our products. These guidelines are in place to protect Matrix users from a bad experience.

 

 

 

Unfortunately, as our products have become more popular, more people have taken advantage of them in negative ways, including counterfeiting OZIK shafts, forging OZIK labels, and selling stolen goods. From my perspective, nothing is worse than the phone call or email from a once-excited golfer who has made a significant investment in a Matrix product from a non-authorized source only to have it not be what they expected.

 

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to email me and to read my reply.

 

 

 

I hope you do not mind that I use portions of my email to you in other places and in response to the couple additional questions I have been emailed.

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

J.C. Beeson

 

VP of Products and Marketing

 

Matrix Shafts"