What is going on with Matrix Shafts?

[DemolitionMan]

If it's a MAP issue, then just say so and leave it at that. But if the EBay seller or the seller in the BST is not a Matrix account, then there is nothing they can do. If I buy from a dealer at a cut rate price because they want to ditch inventory and then I fall asleep at the wheel and not sell myself fast enough, then I find myself in a situation where I have to ditch shafts for whatever I can get.

 

Not to mention what if I am a big ho and buy too many shafts and end up with a couple I need to sell. Too bad for me if market rates are not going to help me. I lose.

 

Ping has a strong dealer network so they can be tough on MAP. Matrix has a tiny slice of market that is so small it doesn't even register on anyone's radar screen; so not exactly a position to be tough and call it MAP.

 

What would MAP be anyways? Different Matrix accounts get different prices.

 

BTW, my early post is my view only, not an official GolfWRX representation.

[icec0ld]

I'm not an account though.

 

Yeah I got that from your initial posts, but again, I think it's just a matter of protecting the brand. What protecting you might ask? I don't know, nor care to really know. Do I agree with what they or any other company does and who they do business with? No not really, but it is there decision and I'm sure if you talk to them you'll get some sort of resolution. I can understand where you're coming from as well as where they are. Who knows, probably one of those "wrong place at the wrong time" sort of things.

[stage1350]

If Matrix has a problem with new uncut shafts being sold, they can go after the DISTRIBUTOR that dumped them. Instead of rearing up like a silverback on the small guy, why don't they get their own house in order and track their inventory better instead of spending all their time coming up with douchey new color schemes to call "Tour Only."

 

They are welcome to bid on and win the shaft from DoubleRods. But I'm sure that they will be too cheap to pay the price to win it.

[bezard87]

yep 3 different levels of pricing for dealers based on sales #'s, I have a cost sheet here in front of my face from Matrix and I am not a dealer

[Double Rods]

yep 3 different levels of pricing for dealers based on sales #'s, I have a cost sheet here in front of my face from Matrix and I am not a dealer

 

Post it? Would be interesting to see. I don't care about their secret bottom line.

[Jetlv25]

Definately not a good business plan in my book. If I purchase an ozik shaft from one of their dealers at MAP and decide not to use it and sell it for a little less is my business. If they have issues they need to go at what they can actually control, not individual golfers trying to find a home for a shaft they are not going to use.

[HeadonaStick]

uh JC is I believe in fact a member of this site, so unless someone is spoofing as him it would be legit. As to right or wrong, can't say. I've met him and he's a good dude and this is probably an unfortunate event but it seems like Matrix is attempting to protect their product must like GXgolfer said. Probably something similar to PING and their MAP.

Except they can't control what I (a private party) sell a product for - neither can Ping for that matter. They can just refuse to sell products to me at wholesale.

 

If the shaft didn't come from them to begin with and you aren't a Matrix dealer I'm not sure what they can do about it.

[bezard87]

uh JC is I believe in fact a member of this site, so unless someone is spoofing as him it would be legit. As to right or wrong, can't say. I've met him and he's a good dude and this is probably an unfortunate event but it seems like Matrix is attempting to protect their product must like GXgolfer said. Probably something similar to PING and their MAP.

Except they can't control what I (a private party) sell a product for - neither can Ping for that matter. They can just refuse to sell products to me at wholesale.

 

If the shaft didn't come from them to begin with and you aren't a Matrix dealer I'm not sure what they can do about it.

 

ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!...........this is NOT the first person to get this type of silly email, I promise

[Evil R1]

But my question was always you charge me 400 for a TP-7 shaft and yet I couldnt sell it under 600 worth of profit or risk loosing a Matrix account??? what did the shaft cost Matrix to start with 50 bucks? it absolutely makes no sense b/c Matirx is making money off of the 400 cost, yet they are making you make 600 profit on one shaft?

 

PS I was never nor will ever be a Matrix dealer

 

Well, that's not really the whole picture. If may cost Matrix $50 (if that) to make the second shaft, but how much did it cost them to make the first? (R&D, Manufacturing, etc). Then they have to recoup that $$$ over X number of years to break even. So, who knows what the big picture looks like.

 

As for the selling under MAP. I will say one thing for Ping (using them as an example). Their equipment retains it's re-sale better than anything else. So not only are they protecting their Brand but also the value of the customers equipment. If I played Pings, then I would be complaining when it came time to sell them.

 

*** EDIT **** Hit post too soon. I will say that if that original letter/e-mail was legit from the company, than I have absolutely no respect for them. Both letters read so silly it almost sounds like someone is playing a joke on the seller.

[bezard87]

But my question was always you charge me 400 for a TP-7 shaft and yet I couldnt sell it under 600 worth of profit or risk loosing a Matrix account??? what did the shaft cost Matrix to start with 50 bucks? it absolutely makes no sense b/c Matirx is making money off of the 400 cost, yet they are making you make 600 profit on one shaft?

 

PS I was never nor will ever be a Matrix dealer

 

Well, that's not really the whole picture. If may cost Matrix $50 (if that) to make the second shaft, but how much did it cost them to make the first? (R&D, Manufacturing, etc). Then they have to recoup that $$$ over X number of years to break even. So, who knows what the big picture looks like.

 

As for the selling under MAP. I will say one thing for Ping (using them as an example). Their equipment retains it's re-sale better than anything else. So not only are they protecting their Brand but also the value of the customers equipment. If I played Pings, then I would be complaining when it came time to sell them.

 

 

But, have they established themselves as PING has product wise? NO, nowhere close and will never be IMHO, they are simply overrated shafts that perform no better than any other shaft on the golf market that cost less than 1/2 of COST on a Matrix product. If these shafts was not hyped by another golf site, then the play would be non existant and noone would be paying high exaggerated prices for them and they would most likely have failed by now, with that said yes I have their shafts in my bag on some clubs, but I paid way less than MAP, so if Ozik wants some names Ill disclose them (cool)

 

End of rant carry on, I would like to hear some other opinions, I will read from here on out

[Gxgolfer]

If you have legitimately bought a Matrix shaft then really everything is mute.

[Croonie15]

This really seems odd to me. No other shaft manufacture has ever done something like this to my knowledge. If they don't want shafts to be sold cheaper, then they should get rid of all the dealers, and sell the shafts out of their company. They want to be a high end shaft manufacture but they still have dealers, that doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Croonie

[Evil R1]

But my question was always you charge me 400 for a TP-7 shaft and yet I couldnt sell it under 600 worth of profit or risk loosing a Matrix account??? what did the shaft cost Matrix to start with 50 bucks? it absolutely makes no sense b/c Matirx is making money off of the 400 cost, yet they are making you make 600 profit on one shaft?

 

PS I was never nor will ever be a Matrix dealer

 

Well, that's not really the whole picture. If may cost Matrix $50 (if that) to make the second shaft, but how much did it cost them to make the first? (R&D, Manufacturing, etc). Then they have to recoup that $$$ over X number of years to break even. So, who knows what the big picture looks like.

 

As for the selling under MAP. I will say one thing for Ping (using them as an example). Their equipment retains it's re-sale better than anything else. So not only are they protecting their Brand but also the value of the customers equipment. If I played Pings, then I would be complaining when it came time to sell them.

 

 

But, have they established themselves as PING has product wise? NO, nowhere close and will never be IMHO, they are simply overrated shafts that perform no better than any other shaft on the golf market that cost less than 1/2 of COST on a Matrix product.

 

End of rant carry on, I would like to hear some other opinions, I will read from here on out (cool)

 

I never said they were any good, I just said they were trying to protect the value of their product much like Ping does. They can charge anything they want for their shaft, only the market will really say what it's worth. If people don't think a shaft is worth $1000, then they won't send the $$$. Personally, I don't think any shaft is worth $1000 unless it would guarentee that I would win the Masters.

[HeadonaStick]

But my question was always you charge me 400 for a TP-7 shaft and yet I couldnt sell it under 600 worth of profit or risk loosing a Matrix account??? what did the shaft cost Matrix to start with 50 bucks? it absolutely makes no sense b/c Matirx is making money off of the 400 cost, yet they are making you make 600 profit on one shaft?

 

PS I was never nor will ever be a Matrix dealer

 

Well, that's not really the whole picture. If may cost Matrix $50 (if that) to make the second shaft, but how much did it cost them to make the first? (R&D, Manufacturing, etc). Then they have to recoup that $$$ over X number of years to break even. So, who knows what the big picture looks like.

 

As for the selling under MAP. I will say one thing for Ping (using them as an example). Their equipment retains it's re-sale better than anything else. So not only are they protecting their Brand but also the value of the customers equipment. If I played Pings, then I would be complaining when it came time to sell them.

Why would you complain when it was time to sell them? You are a private party and are allowed to sell for any price you choose. Actually, so are Ping dealers. Ping just refuses to sell to the account again, but there is no law or contract broken if Watts decides to sell me a brand new set of Pings for $2.99. I have never, ever heard of Ping going after a private party.

 

There seems to be some confusion here - private individuals are not bound by Matrix company policy. Assuming the shaft came from a legit source (and Matrix is responsible to prove otherwise) the private party may sell the shaft for any amount they see fit. Only Matrix dealers, buying wholesale from Matrix, are bound by MAP or any lother policy.

[Hungsolo]

They have no grounds whatsoever.

 

Going back to the PING analogy (and I know, Matrix is not PING).

If I buy a set of I5's from a dealer, but then realize I'm a ho, and decide I don't want them, and I sell them new on ebay for 400 bucks, PING cannot do anything to me. It's my loss. They (PING/Matrix/whomever) do not have power over the market. They only have power with their accounts and/or those who have signed contracts/made agreements. Screw them and their petty emails.

 

Anyone wanna buy my altus hybrid?

[ckay]

I've seen Matrix accounts get pulled because they were selling for a small percentage above cost. It really is a shame.

[seasuks]

I can't believe that Matrix has a MAP where the margin is $600 for the retailer, but the company itself is only making maybe what, $250-350 a shaft?

 

Now I won't be finished with my MBA until June, but that still doesn't seem like a very good business model either. It would seem to me that Matrix would sell it to the dealer for $600 and then the MAP would be $1000 and the dealer makes the $400. That's still a 66% margin which is pretty damned good.

[Gxgolfer]

They have no grounds whatsoever.

 

Going back to the PING analogy (and I know, Matrix is not PING).

If I buy a set of I5's from a dealer, but then realize I'm a ho, and decide I don't want them, and I sell them new on ebay for 400 bucks, PING cannot do anything to me. It's my loss. They (PING/Matrix/whomever) do not have power over the market. They only have power with their accounts and/or those who have signed contracts/made agreements. Screw them and their petty emails.

 

Anyone wanna buy my altus hybrid?

 

If they are tracking serial numbers, then they can buy them and go after the distributor if they are in violation. And if its stolen property, they can still buy and pursue the individuals.

[Double Rods]

Well guys, this thread has probably killed my Ozik auction in question. It's been informative and fun for sure. Someone's going to get that sucka under cost for real.

[DemolitionMan]

They have no grounds whatsoever.

 

Going back to the PING analogy (and I know, Matrix is not PING).

If I buy a set of I5's from a dealer, but then realize I'm a ho, and decide I don't want them, and I sell them new on ebay for 400 bucks, PING cannot do anything to me. It's my loss. They (PING/Matrix/whomever) do not have power over the market. They only have power with their accounts and/or those who have signed contracts/made agreements. Screw them and their petty emails.

 

Anyone wanna buy my altus hybrid?

 

If they are tracking serial numbers, then they can buy them and go after the distributor if they are in violation. And if its stolen property, they can still buy and pursue the individuals.

 

The purchasing of and then the later re-sale of "stolen property" is a gray area. While it is true that it is not legal to purchase stolen property, the burden of proof is that you must have known it was stolen. If I buy a golf shaft from someone that represents it as their to sell, then I really can't be at fault unless I bought it at a price that was so low that a reasonable person could come to the conclusion it must be stolen. But again, a gray area.

 

Unfortunately, even if you get off the hook for buying stolen property by not being in the know, you still have to turn the item to the police and you are out whatever you paid.

[Gxgolfer]

I cleaned up the thread and deleted "confidential information." If people have questions please do so via PMs.

 

 

 

Ok, I will open this up but, here are the ground rules which are the site rules and nothings changed there.

 

No insults or references to other sites

Also no ganging up on the thread or I will immediately delete and lock.

Please Only new information and must be specific to the original topic

[oregongolf]

this seems silly, try listing it again.

 

someone will jump on it.

[stage1350]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Matrix-OZIK-Code-7-Sha...tem280093202064

 

For reference, here is the auction.

 

So would Matrix have an issue if the auction was listed at MAP? Is their concern that the seller is not authorized, but private?

 

It's one thing to try and protect your product. It's completely different when an individual decides not to utilize something that they paid for and sells it. I have a brand new Fujikura shaft that I will probably end up listing on eBay as well for much less than what I paid for it. Somehow I don't see Fujikura sending me nasty letters and threatening to pull my auction or accuse me of criminal action.

 

This was handled very poorly on the part of Apache/MCC/MFS/Matrix/Ozik. I would expect a company that is trying to endear the public to their inflated pricepoints to tread a little lighter. I think it speaks volumes that they are also not willing to respond to this thread even though they have been seen in here more than once.

[samm980]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Matrix-OZIK-Code-7-Sha...tem280093202064

 

For reference, here is the auction.

 

So would Matrix have an issue if the auction was listed at MAP? Is their concern that the seller is not authorized, but private?

 

It's one thing to try and protect your product. It's completely different when an individual decides not to utilize something that they paid for and sells it. I have a brand new Fujikura shaft that I will probably end up listing on eBay as well for much less than what I paid for it. Somehow I don't see Fujikura sending me nasty letters and threatening to pull my auction or accuse me of criminal action.

 

This was handled very poorly on the part of Apache/MCC/MFS/Matrix/Ozik. I would expect a company that is trying to endear the public to their inflated pricepoints to tread a little lighter. I think it speaks volumes that they are also not willing to respond to this thread even though they have been seen in here more than once.

 

Brad, Matrix has handled this poorly and I think it's perfectly within reason to judge them on their actions with this matter.

[ckay]

That's why I don't buy Matrix shafts.

[bezard87]

That's why I don't buy Matrix shafts.

 

 

and this is the reason I am done with them from now on

[samm980]

That's why I don't buy Matrix shafts.

 

 

and this is the reason I am done with them from now on

 

 

If Matrix would come out and give a tactful explanation I would still give them some credit but the fact that they have shown no tact (by an executive for that matter) and tried to screw over a personal friend.

 

 

Matrix needs to go ahead and come out with the cliche apology statement and soon.

[Jer-Jer]

Does Matrix have a leg to stand on with this eBay thing? It's his shaft, he can do whatever he wants with it right?

[Topspin2]

While I certainly am wary of Wikipedia after the Fuzzy Zoeller thing. I present this definition;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_restriction.

 

It appears that the actions of this company may constitute restriction of free trade. There are other legal terms to describe restriction [see anti-competitive].

 

I think however, this particular knee-jerk reaction is to a certain website with which many of us are familiar. Certain powers on that board have potential profits tied up by being a "favored" outlet for these shafts. I think this website was annoyed that they were being "undercut" by private sales which threatened their margin.

 

If you are a squeaky wheel - you get attention from a manufacturer who needs to leverage their product with your audience.

 

On one level, the manufacturer should be thrilled his product is out there in the free market of supply and demand.

 

I've left enough space between the lines for y'all to read.... (cool)

[ckay]

While I certainly am wary of Wikipedia after the Fuzzy Zoeller thing. I present this definition;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_restriction.

 

It appears that the actions of this company may constitute restriction of free trade. There are other legal terms to describe restriction [see anti-competitive].

 

I think however, this particular knee-jerk reaction is to a certain website with which many of us are familiar. Certain powers on that board have potential profits tied up by being a "favored" outlet for these shafts. I think this website was annoyed that they were being "undercut" by private sales which threatened their margin.

 

If you are a squeaky wheel - you get attention from a manufacturer who needs to leverage their product with your audience.

 

On one level, the manufacturer should be thrilled his product is out there in the free market of supply and demand.

 

I've left enough space between the lines for y'all to read.... (cool)

Just to add to that, a member over at a collector board had his Matrix account pulled because his prices.