The Sandbagging Madness has to stop...

[Kiwigolf]

[quote name='PJ72' timestamp='1409775111' post='10058511']
[quote name='wadesworld' timestamp='1409680205' post='10050619']
One of the big problems with the handicap system is that so few people know the rules of handicaps, or misunderstand them, and can then either unintentionally sandbag, or intentionally.

For example, many people believe that if you break a single rule of golf, the round cannot count for handicap purposes. So if the person doesn't want the round to count, he simply picks up a gimme putt, and now not only does he feel justified in not turning the round in, but in fact, feels like he's the flag bearer for integrity because he didn't turn in a round where a rule was broken (never mind the fact he didn't penalize himself).

Similarly, most people believe if you don't finish a round, you can't turn in a score.

As others have said, it's not an easy problem to solve in the US because of the large number of people who play only on public courses. Although one has to be a member of a "club" (traditional, local or even online) to establish a handicap, the reality is, in anything other than a country-club environment, you're not likely to get called out by the handicap chairman.

So it falls on tournament directors to have some backbone and disqualify obvious cheaters. In a single-round event, it's hard to DQ someone who shots [b]10 or even 15 shots below their normal[/b]. As a 15-handicap I once shot a legit 79 (including a hole-in-one). I've shot a number of 81's, 82's and 83's. But I also have the 94's, 98's and 100's which keep me hovering around 15. However, in a multi-round event, multiple days of a high-handicapper shooting in the 70's or even low-80's gross should likely be grounds for immediate disqualification.
[/quote]

Shooting 10 shots below handicap is extremely rare. That's a net 62 or 46 points stableford.

Shooting 15 shots below is just unbelievable - and it should be treated as that. That's a nett 57 or 51 points!

A 16-18 handicapper shooting 10-12 over is reasonable because they hit the ball decent but lack consistency. The 24-28 handicapper shooting 10 -12 over is impossible really because they don't put the ball near the green in regulation.


The best scores at my club over the past 3 years have been 46 points (18 hcp played to 8) and a nett 64 (me with 71 playing off 7!).
[/quote]

Played today of +1 and shot 8 under 64.... Does that mean I'm sandbagging lol

[DavePelz4]

I'd say that you golfed your ball very nicely. Care to share the details behind your great round?

[DavePelz4]

So there is a post script to this story.

 

Last night while out having a Blue Moon and watching the Blackhawks with one of my sons, I ran into the head pro that ran the events. As he was alone at the bar I approached him, reintroduced myself and asked if he had a few minutes. He graciously said yes so I asked him about the two events won by people who clearly had sandbagged. He remembered the most recent one, including the name of the sandbagging champion. We talked a bit about the new posting changes (which he wasn't aware of interestingly) and I asked if there is anything he sees that can be done to address sandbagging/handicapping.

 

While there is no single answer that will fix this, he pointed out that post event, they are going into the top X% of players to ensure that the tournament score gets posted. He said one of the things they found while looking at these two situations is that neither individual posted tournaments rounds where they shot well. He felt the only way they could guarantee those scores were posted was to check and if necessary, post them as the TD.

 

Being that I've criticized this individual before, I want to also praise him for taking the initiative to try and address this issue. It won't solve the problem completely but it is a start.

[idrive]

 

Played today of +1 and shot 8 under 64.... Does that mean I'm sandbagging lol

 

It does if you regularly shoot -8 and if you didn't post your score.

[KyGolf]

One solution to this is to play in flighted tournaments. No handicap. Field is broken into flights after the first day's scores. 10% rule in effect. This doesn't completely eliminate sandbagging but it will cut down on a lot of it.

[bruinsPATSirish]

One solution to this is to play in flighted tournaments. No handicap. Field is broken into flights after the first day's scores. 10% rule in effect. This doesn't completely eliminate sandbagging but it will cut down on a lot of it.

 

I've been a part of many flighted events and the sandbagging issue still always comes up.

 

Just because they're split into flights of "equal skill" the sandbaggers still pop up with gross scores that torch their flight's.

[Augster]

One solution to this is to play in flighted tournaments. No handicap. Field is broken into flights after the first day's scores. 10% rule in effect. This doesn't completely eliminate sandbagging but it will cut down on a lot of it.

 

I've been a part of many flighted events and the sandbagging issue still always comes up.

 

Just because they're split into flights of "equal skill" the sandbaggers still pop up with gross scores that torch their flight's.

 

This.

 

I played in one of those once. Once. They bag their cap to get into those worse flights, then decimate the small field. At the time I was in a flight with 8's and 9's. I was an 8. Second day low score was a 67. The 50 guys in champ flight didn't shoot a 67 that day from the same tees.

 

I just play champ now regardless where my cap is at the time.

[deadsolid...shank]

One solution to this is to play in flighted tournaments. No handicap. Field is broken into flights after the first day's scores. 10% rule in effect. This doesn't completely eliminate sandbagging but it will cut down on a lot of it.

 

I've been a part of many flighted events and the sandbagging issue still always comes up.

 

Just because they're split into flights of "equal skill" the sandbaggers still pop up with gross scores that torch their flight's.

 

This.

 

I played in one of those once. Once. They bag their cap to get into those worse flights, then decimate the small field. At the time I was in a flight with 8's and 9's. I was an 8. Second day low score was a 67. The 50 guys in champ flight didn't shoot a 67 that day from the same tees.

 

I just play champ now regardless where my cap is at the time.

 

I think the difference in this format is there are no flights to begin with. Everyone just plays, then they are flighted based on the first day scores. Not on handicaps coming into the tournament.

[KyGolf]

That is correct. There are no handicaps, field is broken into flights based on first round results. You are only competing in your flight for the second round. If you better your score by more than 10% the second day you are bumped up a flight.

[deadsolid...shank]

That is correct. There are no handicaps, field is broken into flights based on first round results. You are only competing in your flight for the second round. If you better your score by more than 10% the second day you are bumped up a flight.

 

I've only played once under this format, about 20 years ago. Nine hole course I had never seen. Shot 45 on the first nine to get flighted and 41 on the back to win that flight. That probably would have bumped me under the 10% rule had they been using it. It seemed to work pretty well.

[DavePelz4]

Needed to resurrect this thread and update it with this year's results. This will come as a shock to everyone, but the person referenced in the original post won the tournament, AGAIN after winning 2 years ago. The event was reduced to 27 holes because of the course conditions post several storms here in Chicago.

 

Magically, this individual's index rose over the last two years from the adjusted 10.9R to 14.1 for this event so for the 9 holes he received 7 strokes and 15 strokes for the full 18. The lowest score of the 13 rounds he's posted this year was an 85, with a differential of 12.3

 

For his first 9 holes he shot gross even par 36 which netted him a 29 or -7. His 18 hole round wasn't as good, he only shot a gross 82/net 67 or -5 for a 27 hole score of 12 under par. Basically, his index rose for 2 years and he somehow managed to post the two lowest scores of the year to win the event again.

 

It's a travesty that the people who run this event let this happen again, with the exact same pattern from the exact same person. It's sad because a number of us won't play in this event because of the total lack of leadership associated with this tournament.

 

Off my soapbox for now but reserving the right to step back up on it or the high horse associated with it.

[smeech8000]

Needed to resurrect this thread and update it with this year's results. This will come as a shock to everyone, but the person referenced in the original post won the tournament, AGAIN after winning 2 years ago. The event was reduced to 27 holes because of the course conditions post several storms here in Chicago.

 

Magically, this individual's index rose over the last two years from the adjusted 10.9R to 14.1 for this event so for the 9 holes he received 7 strokes and 15 strokes for the full 18. The lowest score of the 13 rounds he's posted this year was an 85, with a differential of 12.3

 

For his first 9 holes he shot gross even par 36 which netted him a 29 or -7. His 18 hole round wasn't as good, he only shot a gross 82/net 67 or -5 for a 27 hole score of 12 under par. Basically, his index rose for 2 years and he somehow managed to post the two lowest scores of the year to win the event again.

 

It's a travesty that the people who run this event let this happen again, with the exact same pattern from the exact same person. It's sad because a number of us won't play in this event because of the total lack of leadership associated with this tournament.

 

Off my soapbox for now but reserving the right to step back up on it or the high horse associated with it.

 

How was participation this year?

[DavePelz4]

If I recall correctly, 2 years ago there were 150+, I did a quick count and it looked like 90 participated this year.

[EKELLY]

I'll guarantee you that at the club I grew up at, he'd be running for the parking lot, and afraid to come back........LOL

[DavePelz4]

I'll guarantee you that at the club I grew up at, he'd be running for the parking lot, and afraid to come back........LOL

 

That's basically what happened 2 years ago. After he won some of the players looked up his index and went to the TD. They showed his scores which that year were 75/73 (or something close) and how he hadn't shot below 85 in a year. They let him keep the title, money and trophy, jacked up his index and last year he played and shot like cr*p so his number climbed up.

 

And then he wins it again...

[ruca]

Any system depends in part on 1) robustness (how easy is it to game the system) , and 2) statistical properties

 

1) usga took its first tiny tentative step towards attestation of scores (which for the rest of the world is routine), and met strong resistance in some quarters. I think you'll get there in the end

 

2) imagine if owgr was based on "best 10 out of last 20 tournaments". if Jason Day had a quiet nine months, he drops out of top 100. In other words, arguably the system is a more accurate measure of form than of standard. Also, because scores more than 20 rounds ago drop off, it's intrinsically less robust.

One approach to this problem is to introduce an incremental component , which other hcp systems (and the owgr) uses. The loss of responsiveness is a small price to pay

[2ball]

i know this is an old post but happens all the time. Recently out on the west coast i played in a club championshp for seniors, guy who won broke 80 for first time all year!!! 79 gross 67 net to win. A 12 handicap shoots 79 in tournament - i don't think so. When they announced who won everyone moaned...

 

Same thing happened at at 1 day tourney at a club in rancho santa margarita, 5 and 6 handicaps were have banner days shooting net 65 and 64. Really you are averaging 77-76 all year and better your score by 10 or more in a tournament? Don't think so. And took home 7 skins, what???? It's criminal. and who but there buddies are their to witness these great achievements on the course.

[2ball]

Needed to resurrect this thread and update it with this year's results. This will come as a shock to everyone, but the person referenced in the original post won the tournament, AGAIN after winning 2 years ago. The event was reduced to 27 holes because of the course conditions post several storms here in Chicago.

 

Magically, this individual's index rose over the last two years from the adjusted 10.9R to 14.1 for this event so for the 9 holes he received 7 strokes and 15 strokes for the full 18. The lowest score of the 13 rounds he's posted this year was an 85, with a differential of 12.3

 

For his first 9 holes he shot gross even par 36 which netted him a 29 or -7. His 18 hole round wasn't as good, he only shot a gross 82/net 67 or -5 for a 27 hole score of 12 under par. Basically, his index rose for 2 years and he somehow managed to post the two lowest scores of the year to win the event again.

 

It's a travesty that the people who run this event let this happen again, with the exact same pattern from the exact same person. It's sad because a number of us won't play in this event because of the total lack of leadership associated with this tournament.

 

Off my soapbox for now but reserving the right to step back up on it or the high horse associated with it.

 

How was participation this year?

 

The city of Aurora runs a city tournament the structure has changed but when it was a 4 day even (consecutive weekends) you were flighted after your first 2 rounds (5 flights) if you shot 10 or better after round 3 or 4 they had the right to bump you up to a lower flight to avoid some sandbagging.

[bladehunter]

Thought I’d share the latest sandbagger chronicles form our club.

 

Our club decided to add a member / member back to the schedule this year. First two groups to sign up included the two top baggers . Word started to spread and a silent protest began. No other groups signed up. The event has now been canceled. One of these players asked me yesterday “ this place is dead. I’m thinking of moving my membership “. I couldn’t help myself. I said “ let me know where and I’ll be sure to call ahead and warn them “. He laughed. I didn’t. Then it got quiet. Lol. I lit into him. And now we probably don’t speak. Lol. But that’s fine. It had to be done. The second one is the Bully of the two. I’m waiting for him to say something. Sick and tired of their “ I’m going to cheat and you need to like it “ attitude.

 

It’s a crying shame that a few guys can ruin a clubs atmosphere, and make it to where nobody wants to play in a social event like the member /member.

[DaveLeeNC]

i know this is an old post but happens all the time. Recently out on the west coast i played in a club championshp for seniors, guy who won broke 80 for first time all year!!! 79 gross 67 net to win. A 12 handicap shoots 79 in tournament - i don't think so. When they announced who won everyone moaned...

 

Same thing happened at at 1 day tourney at a club in rancho santa margarita, 5 and 6 handicaps were have banner days shooting net 65 and 64. Really you are averaging 77-76 all year and better your score by 10 or more in a tournament? Don't think so. And took home 7 skins, what???? It's criminal. and who but there buddies are their to witness these great achievements on the course.

 

This post really is missing the key information required to actually make a judgment here. My best guess is the following

 

1) Since the is a 'handicapped league championship for seniors', my guess is that is was playing on a course with a CR of around 70. But why do we have to guess.

 

2) So the winner beat his index by around 3 strokes, but the post doesn't say for sure whether this is course handicap or handicap index of 12. So it could be more (or it could be less). If it is handicap index, then we still cannot judge because we don't know the slope of the course played.

 

Note that in a handicapped event like this it is inevitable that the winner is going to win by playing one of his best rounds of the year, even in a 100% honest world. "Absolute best by one or more strokes" - certainly less likely in an honest world.

 

Maybe with the information required to judge these things, this posted information would be interesting and indicative of sandbagging. In fact it probably is, but how can we know from what is posted here?

 

dave

[Augster]

This response to an old thread must be a joke. A 12 shooting a 79 gets you all worked up? It happens every single day in any large group of mid caps. Someone is going to play well given normal scoring conditions. Will 1 12-cap shoot 79? Maybe. Will 10 12-caps have 1 shoot 79? Possibly. Will 20 12-caps have 1 shoot 79? Almost certainly. Will 100 12-caps have 1 shoot 79? Absolutely and others will shoot better than that.

 

And that’s if all caps and players play legit golf.

 

As Dave said, EVERY winner plays better than their cap that day. If everyone always played to their cap or worse, you could distribute the bets and trophys on the first tee and skip playing all together.

 

And 4’s, 5’s and 6’s shoot net 65 or less at least once in a while. Not a surprise a good player plays well every so often. My friend today had a net 65. Shot 70 as a 5. I had a net 63 in the spring. Shot 69 as a 6. It happens. The better the player, the more often they go low. My friend only hits straight balls and is long enough to reach all 4 of our par 5’s in 2. He basically starts at -4 each round and works up from there. His 4 par 5’s today. Par, birdie, par, eagle. Good wind today so he didn’t get to the surface on 2 of the par 5’s and didn’t get up and down.

 

I’m never ever surprised when a good player shoots net 66 or lower at my course. I just say good round.

[Matt J]

Thought I’d share the latest sandbagger chronicles form our club.

 

Our club decided to add a member / member back to the schedule this year. First two groups to sign up included the two top baggers . Word started to spread and a silent protest began. No other groups signed up. The event has now been canceled. One of these players asked me yesterday “ this place is dead. I’m thinking of moving my membership “. I couldn’t help myself. I said “ let me know where and I’ll be sure to call ahead and warn them “. He laughed. I didn’t. Then it got quiet. Lol. I lit into him. And now we probably don’t speak. Lol. But that’s fine. It had to be done. The second one is the Bully of the two. I’m waiting for him to say something. Sick and tired of their “ I’m going to cheat and you need to like it “ attitude.

 

It’s a crying shame that a few guys can ruin a clubs atmosphere, and make it to where nobody wants to play in a social event like the member /member.

 

Good for you.

 

If that many agree you should vote in a handicap committee chair and simply change their indices until they comply with proper posting requirements. One of our local pros does it for his tournaments. Simply gets out a red pen and changes the number. Don't like it? Don't play.

[bladehunter]

This response to an old thread must be a joke. A 12 shooting a 79 gets you all worked up? It happens every single day in any large group of mid caps. Someone is going to play well given normal scoring conditions. Will 1 12-cap shoot 79? Maybe. Will 10 12-caps have 1 shoot 79? Possibly. Will 20 12-caps have 1 shoot 79? Almost certainly. Will 100 12-caps have 1 shoot 79? Absolutely and others will shoot better than that.

 

And that’s if all caps and players play legit golf.

 

As Dave said, EVERY winner plays better than their cap that day. If everyone always played to their cap or worse, you could distribute the bets and trophys on the first tee and skip playing all together.

 

And 4’s, 5’s and 6’s shoot net 65 or less at least once in a while. Not a surprise a good player plays well every so often. My friend today had a net 65. Shot 70 as a 5. I had a net 63 in the spring. Shot 69 as a 6. It happens. The better the player, the more often they go low. My friend only hits straight balls and is long enough to reach all 4 of our par 5’s in 2. He basically starts at -4 each round and works up from there. His 4 par 5’s today. Par, birdie, par, eagle. Good wind today so he didn’t get to the surface on 2 of the par 5’s and didn’t get up and down.

 

I’m never ever surprised when a good player shoots net 66 or lower at my course. I just say good round.

 

I think the point is that if you had a group of 2 handicaps , the likelihood of 1 shooting 67 is much much less than one of 20 12 caps shooting 79.

[jmiller2]

The odds chart for shooting exceptional net differential floats around the internet on multiple sites, here are a couple of examples

~ http://oga.org/sites/default/files/Probability%20Table.pdf

~ http://www.popeofslope.com/sandbagging/odds.html

 

~ Using either of the linked tables above to look at a player's odds of shooting a single net differential of -4 or -5

>> For a 6-12 shooting a net differential of -4.0 to -4.9 is 121:1

>> For a 6-12 shooting a net differential of -5.0 to -5.9 is 276:1

 

A handicap committee is only going to react to 2+ exceptional tournament rounds.

~ The USGA does have a guide for handicap reduction based on two exception tournament scores

>> http://www.usga.org/handicapping/handicap-manual-2012-2015.html#!rule-14389,10-3

[davep043]

Thought I'd share the latest sandbagger chronicles form our club.

 

Our club decided to add a member / member back to the schedule this year. First two groups to sign up included the two top baggers . Word started to spread and a silent protest began. No other groups signed up. The event has now been canceled. One of these players asked me yesterday " this place is dead. I'm thinking of moving my membership ". I couldn't help myself. I said " let me know where and I'll be sure to call ahead and warn them ". He laughed. I didn't. Then it got quiet. Lol. I lit into him. And now we probably don't speak. Lol. But that's fine. It had to be done. The second one is the Bully of the two. I'm waiting for him to say something. Sick and tired of their " I'm going to cheat and you need to like it " attitude.

 

It's a crying shame that a few guys can ruin a clubs atmosphere, and make it to where nobody wants to play in a social event like the member /member.

 

Good for you.

 

If that many agree you should vote in a handicap committee chair and simply change their indices until they comply with proper posting requirements. One of our local pros does it for his tournaments. Simply gets out a red pen and changes the number. Don't like it? Don't play.

It doesn't take a red pen, all you need is admin access to the handicap calculation service (GHIN for most of us). You simply go in and enter a Modified Handicap, and the expiration date of the modification. According to the rules, the pro is not allowed to do this on his own, it has to be the Handicap Committee. The pro may serve on the committee, but he may not be the chair.

[bladehunter]

Thought I'd share the latest sandbagger chronicles form our club.

 

Our club decided to add a member / member back to the schedule this year. First two groups to sign up included the two top baggers . Word started to spread and a silent protest began. No other groups signed up. The event has now been canceled. One of these players asked me yesterday " this place is dead. I'm thinking of moving my membership ". I couldn't help myself. I said " let me know where and I'll be sure to call ahead and warn them ". He laughed. I didn't. Then it got quiet. Lol. I lit into him. And now we probably don't speak. Lol. But that's fine. It had to be done. The second one is the Bully of the two. I'm waiting for him to say something. Sick and tired of their " I'm going to cheat and you need to like it " attitude.

 

It's a crying shame that a few guys can ruin a clubs atmosphere, and make it to where nobody wants to play in a social event like the member /member.

 

Good for you.

 

If that many agree you should vote in a handicap committee chair and simply change their indices until they comply with proper posting requirements. One of our local pros does it for his tournaments. Simply gets out a red pen and changes the number. Don't like it? Don't play.

It doesn't take a red pen, all you need is admin access to the handicap calculation service (GHIN for most of us). You simply go in and enter a Modified Handicap, and the expiration date of the modification. According to the rules, the pro is not allowed to do this on his own, it has to be the Handicap Committee. The pro may serve on the committee, but he may not be the chair.

 

yep... Im pushing as hard as i can behind the scenes... Our handicap chair and committe are ticked off at the happenings , but as of yet havent grown the required guts to actually do something .... It doesnt help that the GM is an idiot who believes loosing 2 members is somehow bad for business.. Im certain those 2 members have kept at least 2 from joining over the last 3-4years... These 2 guys are a cancer thats taken deep root. They are very active in the club, and pretty upfront about their agenda.. Win at any cost. When they are adjusted or called out by the committee there will be fireworks of epic proportion.. the lead in this ( the bully) once wrestled a man 20 years his senior to the ground in the pro shop over an argument stemming from a strokes conversation. The club filed no charges, and both guys remained members and just avoid each other. Luckily im not a small guy ..so im pushing the folks with the power to do something... and in dec we vote for handicap committee and chair.... Im going to run... and katy bar the door if im voted in... Ill turn it upside down before next season starts, one way or another.

[DavePelz4]

As the OP of the thread I thought it would be interesting to see what happened in this year's Sr. event in our fair city. Here's a shocker...a guy who went into the event as a 25.2 index shot a net 21 under for 2 rounds and won the event by 7 shots. He had posted 1 round of 87 in 2018 but his other 15 rounds were all between 96 and 106.

 

When I posted this originally, the event had 155 players. This year, only 59.

 

Clearly the madness hasn't stopped.

[bladehunter]

As the OP of the thread I thought it would be interesting to see what happened in this year's Sr. event in our fair city. Here's a shocker...a guy who went into the event as a 25.2 index shot a net 21 under for 2 rounds and won the event by 7 shots. He had posted 1 round of 87 in 2018 but his other 15 rounds were all between 96 and 106.

 

When I posted this originally, the event had 155 players. This year, only 59.

 

Clearly the madness hasn't stopped.

 

I say throttle a sandbagger #growthegame.

[deadsolid...shank]

Thought I'd share the latest sandbagger chronicles form our club.

 

Our club decided to add a member / member back to the schedule this year. First two groups to sign up included the two top baggers . Word started to spread and a silent protest began. No other groups signed up. The event has now been canceled. One of these players asked me yesterday " this place is dead. I'm thinking of moving my membership ". I couldn't help myself. I said " let me know where and I'll be sure to call ahead and warn them ". He laughed. I didn't. Then it got quiet. Lol. I lit into him. And now we probably don't speak. Lol. But that's fine. It had to be done. The second one is the Bully of the two. I'm waiting for him to say something. Sick and tired of their " I'm going to cheat and you need to like it " attitude.

 

It's a crying shame that a few guys can ruin a clubs atmosphere, and make it to where nobody wants to play in a social event like the member /member.

 

Good for you.

 

If that many agree you should vote in a handicap committee chair and simply change their indices until they comply with proper posting requirements. One of our local pros does it for his tournaments. Simply gets out a red pen and changes the number. Don't like it? Don't play.

It doesn't take a red pen, all you need is admin access to the handicap calculation service (GHIN for most of us). You simply go in and enter a Modified Handicap, and the expiration date of the modification. According to the rules, the pro is not allowed to do this on his own, it has to be the Handicap Committee. The pro may serve on the committee, but he may not be the chair.

 

yep... Im pushing as hard as i can behind the scenes... Our handicap chair and committe are ticked off at the happenings , but as of yet havent grown the required guts to actually do something .... It doesnt help that the GM is an idiot who believes loosing 2 members is somehow bad for business.. Im certain those 2 members have kept at least 2 from joining over the last 3-4years... These 2 guys are a cancer thats taken deep root. They are very active in the club, and pretty upfront about their agenda.. Win at any cost. When they are adjusted or called out by the committee there will be fireworks of epic proportion.. the lead in this ( the bully) once wrestled a man 20 years his senior to the ground in the pro shop over an argument stemming from a strokes conversation. The club filed no charges, and both guys remained members and just avoid each other. Luckily im not a small guy ..so im pushing the folks with the power to do something... and in dec we vote for handicap committee and chair.... Im going to run... and katy bar the door if im voted in... Ill turn it upside down before next season starts, one way or another.

 

I really want Bladehunter to get elected and want to watch the fireworks.

[bladehunter]

Thought I'd share the latest sandbagger chronicles form our club.

 

Our club decided to add a member / member back to the schedule this year. First two groups to sign up included the two top baggers . Word started to spread and a silent protest began. No other groups signed up. The event has now been canceled. One of these players asked me yesterday " this place is dead. I'm thinking of moving my membership ". I couldn't help myself. I said " let me know where and I'll be sure to call ahead and warn them ". He laughed. I didn't. Then it got quiet. Lol. I lit into him. And now we probably don't speak. Lol. But that's fine. It had to be done. The second one is the Bully of the two. I'm waiting for him to say something. Sick and tired of their " I'm going to cheat and you need to like it " attitude.

 

It's a crying shame that a few guys can ruin a clubs atmosphere, and make it to where nobody wants to play in a social event like the member /member.

 

Good for you.

 

If that many agree you should vote in a handicap committee chair and simply change their indices until they comply with proper posting requirements. One of our local pros does it for his tournaments. Simply gets out a red pen and changes the number. Don't like it? Don't play.

It doesn't take a red pen, all you need is admin access to the handicap calculation service (GHIN for most of us). You simply go in and enter a Modified Handicap, and the expiration date of the modification. According to the rules, the pro is not allowed to do this on his own, it has to be the Handicap Committee. The pro may serve on the committee, but he may not be the chair.

 

yep... Im pushing as hard as i can behind the scenes... Our handicap chair and committe are ticked off at the happenings , but as of yet havent grown the required guts to actually do something .... It doesnt help that the GM is an idiot who believes loosing 2 members is somehow bad for business.. Im certain those 2 members have kept at least 2 from joining over the last 3-4years... These 2 guys are a cancer thats taken deep root. They are very active in the club, and pretty upfront about their agenda.. Win at any cost. When they are adjusted or called out by the committee there will be fireworks of epic proportion.. the lead in this ( the bully) once wrestled a man 20 years his senior to the ground in the pro shop over an argument stemming from a strokes conversation. The club filed no charges, and both guys remained members and just avoid each other. Luckily im not a small guy ..so im pushing the folks with the power to do something... and in dec we vote for handicap committee and chair.... Im going to run... and katy bar the door if im voted in... Ill turn it upside down before next season starts, one way or another.

 

I really want Bladehunter to get elected and want to watch the fireworks.

 

lol.. it may not always be the most intelligent argument ..But it will be a nonstop thriller !

 

the real rub is going to be if i get pushback from the top. Then i guess reporting to the USGA and carolinas PGA (if applicable) will be the next step....