UK Classic Club Thread - John Letters, Ben Sayers, Slazenger, Dunlop, George Nicoll, Swilken, Petron

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

Another example of the St Andrew Golf Company collaboration with Wilson are these early '50s Sweepstakes irons. Sweepstakes are a well known Wilson brand, possibly not top of the range, but they sit very well in this set. 1 iron to SW, missing the 2 iron....but who cares?

[Jiggered]

         

 

A contemporary advert for the Sweepstakes, and also the ladies equivalent, the "Ladybird".

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Jiggered

[Jiggered]

As mentioned in the Golden Goose thread, I picked up a couple of putters from ebay recently, here's the second one, a Slazenger Lucky 13.

 

I've never seen one of these in the flesh before so was surprised by how small the head was! 

And by its resemblance to some medieval weapon of war...

 

It's shown below alongside the Golden Goose. 

In spite of its small size though there's a lot of brass in there and it felt as heavy as the Goose.

 

(After a few putts on the carpet I can say that I found the Golden Goose much the easier to use. 🙂 )

 

 

 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

These Ben Sayers arrived yesterday. In stainless with Dynamic shafts (black and silver labels), those lovely squared off toes say mid '70s to me. The shafts have chrome loss on the outside, but inside they are as clean as a whistle. £10 + £6 shipping.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

Here is a question for all followers of this thread.

 

If you were to put together an all-British golf set, irons and woods, what would it be? What was the last all British set to be made.

That means no persimmon, no True Temper. I'll give a pass for laminated Maple, I suppose the maple would also have been sourced overseas, although not necessarily. Plastic whipping is a bit suspect so we'll go with Irish Flax waxed thread.

What do you think? I'm probably going John Letters.

[TheDeanAbides]

4 hours ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

These Ben Sayers arrived yesterday. In stainless with Dynamic shafts (black and silver labels), those lovely squared off toes say mid '70s to me. The shafts have chrome loss on the outside, but inside they are as clean as a whistle. £10 + £6 shipping.

I think I saw those on Facebook. Was tempted!

[Foozle]

15 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Here is a question for all followers of this thread.

 

If you were to put together an all-British golf set, irons and woods, what would it be? What was the last all British set to be made.

That means no persimmon, no True Temper. I'll give a pass for laminated Maple, I suppose the maple would also have been sourced overseas, although not necessarily. Plastic whipping is a bit suspect so we'll go with Irish Flax waxed thread.

What do you think? I'm probably going John Letters.

Interesting.....🤔

I don't think there is much of a secret on here that I have a John Letters bias so guess I would side with you on that.

However, in the "modern" era - or at least what is modern to me, I do have a great affection for and have played Ben Sayers Mentor irons - hugely under rated in my opinion, probably not helped by their "budget" brand reputation today. However, the matching woods would definitely have plastic whipping so I will stick my pin on John Letters.

[elwhippy]

I am sure those Sayers are mid to late 1980s. The Mentor irons were superb and very popular in Cumbria and The Borders. Excellent performance and £200 a set less than the opposition. 

[Jiggered]

3 hours ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Here is a question for all followers of this thread.

 

If you were to put together an all-British golf set, irons and woods, what would it be? What was the last all British set to be made.

That means no persimmon, no True Temper. I'll give a pass for laminated Maple, I suppose the maple would also have been sourced overseas, although not necessarily. Plastic whipping is a bit suspect so we'll go with Irish Flax waxed thread.

What do you think? I'm probably going John Letters.

 

Not quite understanding the rules here.

 

British made but no persimmon, so are you saying materials must be sourced in Britain? 

Plastic whipping could have been made in Britain, Irish flax certainly wasn't. 😉

 

In any event I don't think I could make a choice; pick one and I immediately think of half a dozen others that are at least equal.

 

But if you're twisting my arm I'm going to pick three: (cheat!)

• Slazenger Tournament Model - 1956 (persimmon)
• Dunlop Peter Thomson - 1957 (persimmon)
• Slazenger Gary Player - 1962 (persimmon)

Sorry, I can't do it, got to add a couple more:

• John Letters Fred Daly Masters Model - 1947 (persimmon)
• Slazenger Plus International - 1972 (laminated!)

Chosen on a mix of looks and performance.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

Yes, I was sounding a bit confused. What drove me was indeed the thought of a British club made and sourced in the UK.

 

So, persimmon is out. True temper is out.

Laminate may well be in, lets say it is.  Black waxed twine is in (Lisburn is in N.I.) Leather grips definitely in, the last being Balmforths. Plastic collars, ferrules etc UK, Apollo shafts are fine.

What was the last club line to be made and sourced in the UK? The date would have to be 1950s I should have thought.

[russad]

Here is a John Letters putter with a model name that I can't decipher, possibly 'Master'. I'm hoping that someone on here may know it, cheers.

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by russad

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, russad said:

Here is a John Letters putter with a model name that I can't decipher, possibly 'Master'. I'm hoping that someone on here may know it, cheers.

 

 

 

 

Looks like a Golden Goose Mallet that's been customised by a previous owner, removing some of the stamping the process.

 

[russad]

Thank you @Jiggered, I can see it could say Mallet now. It does have the same shaft band as the Golden and Silver Gooses (geese?) that I showed in the Golden Goose thread.

[Jesper Frigast Larsen]

On 12/24/2020 at 9:31 AM, Foozle said:

Got these coming.

Bit of a curiosity. I was attracted by the listing as Slazenger Precision irons which I translate as Hogan Precision. More excited to find they are 3,5,7&9 as I have a short set of Slazenger Ben Hogan's 4,6,8&E. Fate?

However on looking at the picture the heads are very similar to '61 Slazenger Hogan Power Thrusts. Also produced here in the UK as Slazenger Hogan Power Thrust - I have three sets of those - long story!

 

The shape is entirely different to what I recognise as "Precision"

It seems odd that Slazenger would produce two differently branded heads or that Hogan would permit Slazenger to market their current model under a previous Hogan model name?

I proceeded to buy more out of that curiosity. I will no longer have created the Nervana of a complete set of Precision irons (2-E) but now have two short sets of different models so a good result all the same. 🙂

Emptying my late father’s basement, I found a few golf clubs that he used back in the 1960’s when he did’nt have a matched set but a set consisting of clubs from various makers - not unusual in those days. Among them was a Slazenger Precision 8 iron which I have polished a bit and tried to hit. Very nice feeling when you hit the sweet spot. I have repainted the letters in red now that I see that red is the correct colour. Maybe Mr. Foozle would like it to complement his short set?

[Foozle]

14 hours ago, Jesper Frigast Larsen said:

Emptying my late father’s basement, I found a few golf clubs that he used back in the 1960’s when he did’nt have a matched set but a set consisting of clubs from various makers - not unusual in those days. Among them was a Slazenger Precision 8 iron which I have polished a bit and tried to hit. Very nice feeling when you hit the sweet spot. I have repainted the letters in red now that I see that red is the correct colour. Maybe Mr. Foozle would like it to complement his short set?

Jesper, thank you for your thought and consideration. I have sent you a PM.

[Divot License]

I need to get into this forum more, looking back there are so many great finds. 

Firstly where do you guys search out your sets? Ebay, facebook, charity shops etc?

 

Secondly, I'm not that knowledgeable on UK sets (too young to have used them) so what sort of makes and models should I be looking for and at what sort of price point? 

 

Appreciate any insight you guys can give me. 

[Foozle]

2 hours ago, Divot License said:

I need to get into this forum more, looking back there are so many great finds. 

Firstly where do you guys search out your sets? Ebay, facebook, charity shops etc?

 

Secondly, I'm not that knowledgeable on UK sets (too young to have used them) so what sort of makes and models should I be looking for and at what sort of price point? 

 

Appreciate any insight you guys can give me. 

Very difficult to advise. Much depends on what floats your boat!

Going back to the '30's there were a diverse range of manufacturers (Nicoll,  Forgan, Gradidge etc) and idiosyncrasies to chase after. Values from this era are typically very low.

Post war, various mergers saw the pool shrink to be dominated by John Letters, Dunlop and Slazenger - plenty of nice sets from this era. Values remain quite low (certainly compared to contemporary offerings from MacGregor and Wilson). I would hazard that most sets arrive on my doorstep for under £50 including shipping.

By the end of the '70's the sun was unfortunately setting and the brands that remained such as Letters and Sayers were on a downward trend towards the budget end of the market (with some exceptions).

I have never found charity shops very fruitful but that may be local circumstances. They yield the odd club but the only set I ever bought was a set of Ping Eye 2+ that I could not ignore at £18 and successfully negotiated up to £30 -the confused assistant would not go any higher!

Most of my finds are on the Bay or via contacts i have built up. I don't do FB so can't comment.

To sum up, dive in and have fun!

 

[Jiggered]

10 hours ago, Divot License said:

I need to get into this forum more, looking back there are so many great finds. 

Firstly where do you guys search out your sets? Ebay, facebook, charity shops etc?

 

Secondly, I'm not that knowledgeable on UK sets (too young to have used them) so what sort of makes and models should I be looking for and at what sort of price point? 

 

Appreciate any insight you guys can give me. 

 

I'd second everything that Foozle has said, apart from Facebook where I've been successful a couple of times and similar with Gumtree.

 

The bulk of my purchases are from ebay, the pictures of the clubs tend to be much better and more descriptive than Facebook or Gumtree where the detective skills of Sherlock Holmes are often required to determine what's actually on offer.

I've found charity shops to be a dead end, I can count on one hand the number of clubs I've acquired there.

 

Prices seem to have risen a little over the last year but are still ridiculously low for what you're getting. I'm not sure if this is down to increased interest in classic clubs or the lack of availability of new gear during the last year as furloughed ex or new golfers looked to get hold of clubs on the cheap.

 

You'll see some very optimistic asking prices on ebay but as Foozle said, quality sets can be found for under £50 delivered, and putters are often stupidly cheap too!

[Jesper Frigast Larsen]

A while ago the Scottish brand Ryder Golf Clubs was discussed. It was mentioned that they were very popular in Sweden, and I have to say here in Denmark too. I had the Powerbar irons (still have the 3I and the SI) but they were stamped "By Vance" which I guess was a small company that was taken over by Ryder who continued the line. Very nice irons and modern for their time. Here is a catalogue I found, I would guess from around 1978.

Ryder 1.pdf Ryder 2.pdf Ryder 3.pdf Ryder 4.pdf Ryder 5.pdf Ryder 6.pdf

[Divot License]

17 hours ago, Foozle said:

Very difficult to advise. Much depends on what floats your boat!

Going back to the '30's there were a diverse range of manufacturers (Nicoll,  Forgan, Gradidge etc) and idiosyncrasies to chase after. Values from this era are typically very low.

Post war, various mergers saw the pool shrink to be dominated by John Letters, Dunlop and Slazenger - plenty of nice sets from this era. Values remain quite low (certainly compared to contemporary offerings from MacGregor and Wilson). I would hazard that most sets arrive on my doorstep for under £50 including shipping.

By the end of the '70's the sun was unfortunately setting and the brands that remained such as Letters and Sayers were on a downward trend towards the budget end of the market (with some exceptions).

I have never found charity shops very fruitful but that may be local circumstances. They yield the odd club but the only set I ever bought was a set of Ping Eye 2+ that I could not ignore at £18 and successfully negotiated up to £30 -the confused assistant would not go any higher!

Most of my finds are on the Bay or via contacts i have built up. I don't do FB so can't comment.

To sum up, dive in and have fun!

 

 

10 hours ago, Jiggered said:

 

I'd second everything that Foozle has said, apart from Facebook where I've been successful a couple of times and similar with Gumtree.

 

The bulk of my purchases are from ebay, the pictures of the clubs tend to be much better and more descriptive than Facebook or Gumtree where the detective skills of Sherlock Holmes are often required to determine what's actually on offer.

I've found charity shops to be a dead end, I can count on one hand the number of clubs I've acquired there.

 

Prices seem to have risen a little over the last year but are still ridiculously low for what you're getting. I'm not sure if this is down to increased interest in classic clubs or the lack of availability of new gear during the last year as furloughed ex or new golfers looked to get hold of clubs on the cheap.

 

You'll see some very optimistic asking prices on ebay but as Foozle said, quality sets can be found for under £50 delivered, and putters are often stupidly cheap too!

Thanks guys, it's sad that I probably had several decent sets pass through my hands growing up (as hand me downs) and just moved them on as I was a young kids only interested in the "latest and greatest"

 

I do remember having a set of Hogan Powerthrust for a while when a teenager, I hit them so much on the range I began to bend about half the shafts and in the end I got a new set and my dad just threw the "old cheap" Hogans away. I still lay awake some nights begrudging his actions. lol

[Jiggered]

2 hours ago, Jesper Frigast Larsen said:

A while ago the Scottish brand Ryder Golf Clubs was discussed. It was mentioned that they were very popular in Sweden, and I have to say here in Denmark too. I had the Powerbar irons (still have the 3I and the SI) but they were stamped "By Vance" which I guess was a small company that was taken over by Ryder who continued the line. Very nice irons and modern for their time. Here is a catalogue I found, I would guess from around 1978.

 

 

Thanks for posting those Jesper, very interesting!

 

The Ryder Mk III came out around 1984/85 so I'd guess that dates the brochure.

Vance was indeed a smaller company, which was taken over by Ryder in 1975.

 

  

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, Divot License said:

 

Thanks guys, it's sad that I probably had several decent sets pass through my hands growing up (as hand me downs) and just moved them on as I was a young kids only interested in the "latest and greatest"

 

I do remember having a set of Hogan Powerthrust for a while when a teenager, I hit them so much on the range I began to bend about half the shafts and in the end I got a new set and my dad just threw the "old cheap" Hogans away. I still lay awake some nights begrudging his actions. lol

 

Thousands and thousands (probably millions) of good clubs have been thrown away because they were no longer new or appreciated, so I wouldn't worry too much about that!

 

I see you're not too far from me, if you fancy a game once you're hooked up with some clubs let me know.

[Divot License]

13 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

Thousands and thousands (probably millions) of good clubs have been thrown away because they were no longer new or appreciated, so I wouldn't worry too much about that!

 

I see you're not too far from me, if you fancy a game once you're hooked up with some clubs let me know.

Unless classic clubs are a pre-requisite to join you for a game, I'm happy to play anyway even with my modern sticks. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Divot License

[Jiggered]

4 hours ago, Divot License said:

Unless classic clubs are a pre-requisite to join you for a game, I'm happy to play anyway even with my modern sticks. 

 

Great, I could even bring a spare set with me so you could try the classic experience without parting with any money. 🙂

[Jesper Frigast Larsen]

While clearing out my late father's basement, some elderly golf clubs came to light. Here are some of the best. I have given them a bit of polish and, in some cases, a little paint. The biggest surprise was the Ben Sayers Monarch 64 Persimmon Brassie (2 wood) with original leather grip. A very nice club. Then a Dunlop Tony Jacklin 3 iron that plays more like a 5 iron when I tried it, maybe that has to do with stronger loft in modern irons? A Spalding TopFlite 3 iron with "fake hickory" steel shaft. A Vance Powerbar 3 iron from Scotland (my own old iron). A Slazenger Precision 8 iron, currently on its way to Mr. Foozle in Scotland to complement his short set. A Spalding Robert T. Jones Jr. Synchro-Dyned 7 iron. A Halley hickory putter, a replica from 1989,made in St. Andrews, and bought directly at the factory, and finally a 100 years old hickory putter stamped "Macdonald Musselburgh". Shaft in need of some repair.  

 

My father was a working class boy who started caddying in 1937, 11 years old. He caddied for several years, then went to university and after graduating he took up golf again as a member and played for 55 years at the Royal Copenhagen Golf Club. He also held a number of committee posts in the Danish Golf Union, earning him the Golf Union's honourable gold mark. He died this winter at 94, keenly interested in golf until the end. He left me his golf book library of about 200 books which I will have to sort out.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Jesper Frigast Larsen
Spelling mistakes

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, Jesper Frigast Larsen said:

While clearing out my late father's basement, some elderly golf clubs came to light. Here are some of the best. I have given them a bit of polish and, in some cases, a little paint. The biggest surprise was the Ben Sayers Monarch 64 Persimmon Brassie (2 wood) with original leather grip. A very nice club. Then a Dunlop Tony Jacklin 3 iron that plays more like a 5 iron when I tried it, maybe that has to do with stronger loft in modern irons? A Spalding TopFlite 3 iron with "fake hickory" steel shaft. A Vance Powerbar 3 iron from Scotland (my own old iron). A Slazenger Precision 8 iron, currently on its way to Mr. Foozle in Scotland to complement his short set. A Spalding Robert T. Jones Jr. Synchro-Dyned 7 iron. A Halley hickory putter, a replica from 1989,made in St. Andrews, and bought directly at the factory, and finally a 100 years old hickory putter stamped "Macdonald Musselburgh". Shaft in need of some repair.  

 

My father was a working class boy who started caddying in 1937, 11 years old. He caddied for several years, then went to university and after graduating he took up golf again as a member and played for 55 years at the Royal Copenhagen Golf Club. He also held a number of committee posts in the Danish Golf Union, earning him the Golf Union's honourable gold mark. He died this winter at 94, keenly interested in golf until the end. He left me his golf book library of about 200 books which I will have to sort out.

I am looking forward to the arrival of the 8 iron, even more so now you have shared your fathers story. A true golf enthusiast and ambassador of our great game, it will be an honour to have one of his clubs in my collection. I would like to learn more about him when we hopefully get that game on your next visit to Scotland. 

[Divot License]

4 hours ago, Jesper Frigast Larsen said:

While clearing out my late father's basement, some elderly golf clubs came to light. Here are some of the best. I have given them a bit of polish and, in some cases, a little paint. The biggest surprise was the Ben Sayers Monarch 64 Persimmon Brassie (2 wood) with original leather grip. A very nice club. Then a Dunlop Tony Jacklin 3 iron that plays more like a 5 iron when I tried it, maybe that has to do with stronger loft in modern irons? A Spalding TopFlite 3 iron with "fake hickory" steel shaft. A Vance Powerbar 3 iron from Scotland (my own old iron). A Slazenger Precision 8 iron, currently on its way to Mr. Foozle in Scotland to complement his short set. A Spalding Robert T. Jones Jr. Synchro-Dyned 7 iron. A Halley hickory putter, a replica from 1989,made in St. Andrews, and bought directly at the factory, and finally a 100 years old hickory putter stamped "Macdonald Musselburgh". Shaft in need of some repair.  

 

My father was a working class boy who started caddying in 1937, 11 years old. He caddied for several years, then went to university and after graduating he took up golf again as a member and played for 55 years at the Royal Copenhagen Golf Club. He also held a number of committee posts in the Danish Golf Union, earning him the Golf Union's honourable gold mark. He died this winter at 94, keenly interested in golf until the end. He left me his golf book library of about 200 books which I will have to sort out.

Sorry to hear about your loss @Jesper Frigast Larsen however those are some nice sticks and that's a great library collection he left you. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

On 3/24/2021 at 8:24 PM, Jiggered said:

 

Thanks for posting those Jesper, very interesting!

 

The Ryder Mk III came out around 1984/85 so I'd guess that dates the brochure.

Vance was indeed a smaller company, which was taken over by Ryder in 1975.

 

  

 

My brother's first set were Ryder MKIIIs, woods and irons. He still has them, minus the 8i, though he doesn't play anymore. I hit them a few times, but preferred my own irons (Daiwa Tritec or something like that), though the woods weren't too bad. In fact, I vaguely recall liking one or both of his fairway woods more than mine.

[Jiggered]

On 3/18/2021 at 11:00 AM, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

These Ben Sayers arrived yesterday. In stainless with Dynamic shafts (black and silver labels), those lovely squared off toes say mid '70s to me. The shafts have chrome loss on the outside, but inside they are as clean as a whistle. £10 + £6 shipping.

 

The Ray Floyd model below are on ebay at the moment, they look identical to the Prestige so I'm guessing the Prestige was using up old heads after Ray Floyd had parted with Ben Sayers?

 

This Ray Floyd model dates from 1983.

(Not a bad price for anyone interested, 3 to SW)

 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

22 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

The Ray Floyd model below are on ebay at the moment, they look identical to the Prestige so I'm guessing the Prestige was using up old heads after Ray Floyd had parted with Ben Sayers?

 

This Ray Floyd model dates from 1983.

(Not a bad price for anyone interested, 3 to SW)

 

What a good spot that was. The seller says he likes them. Great to have a date on the Prestige clubs as well. Shafts are the same. I might take them out on Monday, first day out of lockdown.