WWE wrestling thread

[MtlJeff]

I agree, KO and Zayn have their feud which doesn't need any more heat. My feeling is one of those guys (likely KO) wins MITB also. So they can prolong the feud with Zayn costing him cash in attempts or vice versa. Owens is overqualified for the IC now frankly.

 

It would be great for Cesaro. Who has worked his way to being very popular. His pop on post WM raw was massive

[UCBananaboy]

Pretty interesting piece by Ryback: http://thebigguyryback22.tumblr.com/post/143803724226/feed-me-more

[blaird]

Terrible what happened to Enzo...I hope its not a Daniel Bryan like situation and hopefully hes back in a few weeks when he gets all healed up. I had a little mark out moment when their music hit on Monday but it was only Big Cass.

 

Ryback, I cant see staying in WWE for much longer. I know for a while he has been upset with some things.

 

A little mixed on Rusev being US Champ #1 contender. I am hoping the company brings back his old ruthless type gimmick, how he was before the Cena fued. WWE needs all the top heels it can get right now. Outside of Owens and Miz, there arent many serious heels, and it seems everyone loves the Miz, so hes almost a tweener type character.

 

I dont know why, but I found myself pulling for Ryder. I dont know what it is about him that I like. I loved that WWE gave him his moment at WM but hate they took it away from him the next night. He has managed to get over with the crowd in his own way and seems somewhat popular. Wish WWE would give him a shot. They have a decent character in him and good wrestler/mic worker in Sandow and are just throwing them away. They could create some good feuds with these two and Ill even throw Stardust in there as well.

 

I know there are enough titles right now, but some part of me wishes they would do a Television title. Defend it every week. You could give your lower mid card guys like Sandow, Ryder, Social Outcasts, Neville when he comes back, something to do. Defend it on every PPV as well. Every Raw and Smackdown would have a title match. And you could have it change hands on RAW or SD every few weeks. Build up some feuds and get some decent guys involved.

[nickham10]

A TV title would be a very good thing to see. Almost feel like a brand split could be coming again. Seems like they have enough talent to do that now. And could put Shane in charge of one brand and Stephanie the other.

[MtlJeff]

I don't know why they rushed Apollo crews up from NXT to basically not use him. He hasn't been on TV before 10pm yet on Raw, and has no active feuds. They rushed to bring this guy up!

[CBJ]

If the use him correctly (Crews) he could be the next super star, be the next John Cena......

[blaird]

If the use him correctly (Crews) he could be the next super star, be the next John Cena......

 

I hope not...or at least not booked like him. I like Cena enough, think hes decent in ring and on the mic, but Reigns is the new Cena. I have never seen anyone as over as Daniel Bryan. His fans completely hijacked a show and 95% of the arena would go nuts with the YES chant as soon as his music hit. I want to see someone with this reaction every week with the belt.

 

I dont know much about Crews from the couple matches on the main roster Ive seen so I cant say for sure if he has what it takes. Crowd reacts positively for now but dont know that they will a few months from now. How is he on the mic?? If hes not great I could see him winding up like a Neville, maybe couple US Title or IC reigns but never as the IT guy.

[MtlJeff]

Crews is OK on the mic at best. But that's something he'll get better at....he has the total package in the ring in terms of potential, and fans will really like him just because he looks very positive and happy all the time. His character is very Sami-Zayn like.

 

But he needs PPV matches and matches against real opponents who can bring out the best in him. Problem is when you fight a squash match, you do your typical move set and then you are done, and that can get boring

 

What makes the top guys so good, is that they throw new wrinkles at you in the big matches.

 

Kevin Owens is great at this, he doesn't really have more than 1-2 moves he uses frequently. In PPV matches he does something different every time. Cesaro has a move set, but he also does this

 

Sami Zayn is just incredible at selling the story in the ring. He's had 2 of the best matches of the year already versus KO and Nakamura. His match vs Nakamura might be the best NXT match ever truthfully

 

We'll see if Apollo Crews has that side of it, but he needs the chance

[MMB1500]

Genuine question here and I'm not trying to start an argument but what is the attraction of watching wrestling? Is the outcome not predetermined therefore removing the unpredictability seen in pretty much all other sports?

 

I've no doubt these guys (and gals) are very fit, strong athletes but the whole thing seems more akin to a Christmas pantomime that an actual sporting event. What is it I'm missing (if anything)?

[Anser3]

Yes, it is predetermined. However, you have to dig pretty deep (or be Dave Meltzer) to know with 100% certainty which direction they will go and who will win. Watching wrestling is akin to watching movies...generally predictable but still enjoyable.

 

 

I do not watch anymore. I don't have cable (hence no USA network. Even if I did, I wouldn't watch often. The current WWE (I still call it WWF sometimes) product isn't very good, fromw hat I understand That said, I still follow the product to some extent. I check some websites from time to time to see what is going on and if any wrestlers have died. I love listening to guys out of character talk about the business (road trips in the old days, in-ring stuff that didn't go as planned, etc). When Brock Lesnar is more involved, I tend to try to keep up more. Hulk Hogan and Lesnar are my favorites of all -time. I am also a huge Ricky Steamboat fan (best seller ever, IMO). I also appreciate guys before my time such as Bruno Sammartino and Superstar Billy Graham. I also give kudos to Ric Flair (the best combination of in-ring skills and mic work ever) and Randy Savage I know a little about Bockwinkle, Ray Stevens, etc but not much. I grew up in the mid-80's and 90's. I was never a big Stone Cold Steve Austin fan (his podcast is excellent, though). The Rock was ok. I was never an Undertaker fan. Kurt Angle was magnificent as was Bret Hart.

[Anser3]

Quick questions, what are your top 5's (favorite wrestlers, matches, feuds, etc)? They don't have to be the best matches, just the ones you enjoy the most.

 

Mine are

wrestlers: Hogan, Lesnar, Steamboat, Sammartino, Billy Graham

 

Title matches:

1. Steamboat vs Flair Clash of the Champions VI (2 out of 3 falls) in 1989. Every match those guys had was electric, but this my favorite. It still amazes me that Flair said they had 100 matches better that almost nobody saw in the very early 80's

2 Lesnar vs Angle, Wrestlemania 19- Both of these guys are great. I just wish Brock had hit the shooting star press

3. Hogan vs Andre Wrestlemania 3 - not a great match, but historically this is the most significant wrestling memory for me. Savage vs Steamboat blows away everything else on that card.

4. Dude Love vs Steve Austin Over the Edge 1998 (Vince McMahon as special referee) - this was so much fun to watch

5. Flair vs Terry Funk I Quit- I still contend that Ric Flairs 1989 is the greatest year ever for any wrestler

[MtlJeff]

Genuine question here and I'm not trying to start an argument but what is the attraction of watching wrestling? Is the outcome not predetermined therefore removing the unpredictability seen in pretty much all other sports?

 

I've no doubt these guys (and gals) are very fit, strong athletes but the whole thing seems more akin to a Christmas pantomime that an actual sporting event. What is it I'm missing (if anything)?

 

No offense taken and i don't see your comment as argumentative at all. As Anser3 said, it's similar to watching an action movie. When you watched "Deadpool" were you unsure of whether or not Deadpool would emerge victorious in the end? Of course you knew he would.

 

Watching a wrestling match featuring 2 great wrestlers, they put on a show, introduce new move-sets, it can be very exciting. And if the match is booked properly, often you do not know who will win

 

and while it is scripted, the winner is sometimes an indication of who the company intends to push in the future, so there is some drama in that sense.

 

But a great match, like the aforementioned Zayn/Nakamura, which i would argue was the best NXT match ever. Everyone knew Nakamura would win. It was Zayn's farewell match in NXT and Nakamura's debut. It was clearly a Nakamura win from jumpstreet....but they still sucked you in. That's real talent

[MtlJeff]

Quick questions, what are your top 5's (favorite wrestlers, matches, feuds, etc)?

 

Mine are

wrestlers: Hogan, Lesnar, Steamboat, Sammartino, Billy Graham

 

Title matches:

1. Steamboat vs Flair Clash of the Champions VI (2 out of 3 falls) in 1989. Every match those guys had was electric, but this my favorite. It still amazes me that Flair said they had 100 matches better that almost nobody saw in the very early 80's

2 Lesnar vs Angle, Wrestlemania 19- Both of these guys are great. I just wish Brock had hit the shooting star press

3. Hogan vs Andre Wrestlemania 3 - not a great match, but historically this is the most significant wrestling memory for me

4. Dude Love vs Steve Austin Over the Edge 1998 (Vince McMahon as special referee) - this was so much fun to watch

5. Flair vs Terry Funk I Quit- I still contend that Ric Flairs 1989 is the greatest year ever for any wrestler

 

Alltime is so hard....i don't know that i can really do it

 

-Undertaker/Michaels at WM25 is the common answer to "best match ever"....i've seen it so many times and i never turn it off. It's so well done.

-I really loved Chris Benoit/HHH/Michaels at Wrestlemania where Benoit won. There was great drama, near falls, and i'm a sucker for triple threats

-Bret Hart vs Steve Austin in the bloody double turn match is legendary

-CM Punk and Cena had a RAW match often considered the best TV match (non PPV) ever. It's the match that had the piledriver in it after it had been banned. I watched it again recently (it was to earn a title shot i think)...and it's a fantastic match.

-The TLC match with Dudleyz, Hardy's and Edge/Christian....for entertainment value it's amazing

 

Past couple of years my favorites

-Royal Rumble triple threat between Lesnar/Rollins/Cena

-Reigns/Lesnar at WM31 (very underrated match)

-KO vs Cena #1 (KO wins)

-Usos vs Lucha Dragons vs New Day in TLC

-Reigns vs Sheamus at TLC (BTW, TLC 2015 was a great PPV event!)

-Cesaro vs John Cena US title match on RAW last July (the match where Cena addressed the crowd to praise Cesaro during commercial off TV)

-Zayn vs Nakamura at Takeover Dallas

-American Alpha vs Revival at Takeover Dallas (Jason Jordan cried after the match, he really was so happy to hold that belt!)

 

i'm sure theres more

[MMB1500]

Genuine question here and I'm not trying to start an argument but what is the attraction of watching wrestling? Is the outcome not predetermined therefore removing the unpredictability seen in pretty much all other sports?

 

I've no doubt these guys (and gals) are very fit, strong athletes but the whole thing seems more akin to a Christmas pantomime that an actual sporting event. What is it I'm missing (if anything)?

 

No offense taken and i don't see your comment as argumentative at all. As Anser3 said, it's similar to watching an action movie. When you watched "Deadpool" were you unsure of whether or not Deadpool would emerge victorious in the end? Of course you knew he would.

 

Watching a wrestling match featuring 2 great wrestlers, they put on a show, introduce new move-sets, it can be very exciting. And if the match is booked properly, often you do not know who will win

 

and while it is scripted, the winner is sometimes an indication of who the company intends to push in the future, so there is some drama in that sense.

 

But a great match, like the aforementioned Zayn/Nakamura, which i would argue was the best NXT match ever. Everyone knew Nakamura would win. It was Zayn's farewell match in NXT and Nakamura's debut. It was clearly a Nakamura win from jumpstreet....but they still sucked you in. That's real talent

 

OK, that explains it a bit better. Thank you both for clarifying. I guess I was looking at it through the lens of 'sport' rather than 'entertainment' and it really sounds like it would fall into the latter category. Very slick, well organised entertainment.

[shakey]

Old school favs: Hogan, Sting, Flair, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, Goldberg

 

New school favs: CM Punk, Seth Rollins, AJ, Austin Aries, Daniel Bryan

 

Some of the best feuds I can remember:

Austin vs Cooperate Ministry: some good storytelling during that

 

Chris Benoit vs Kevin Sullivan: I think they really hated each other

 

RVD vs Jerry Lynn: old ECW days

 

Austin vs The Rock: Classic promos between them

[shakey]

For whatever reason...I didn't see the AJ heel turn coming. Not sure how i feel about it.

[MtlJeff]

I hope they don't make him a coward. Most mid-size heels become cowards (like Rollins), and Styles is great in the ring so it would be a real shame because cowards don't get to get in as much offense. He and Cena should put on 5-star matches. It is puzzling though as Styles was super over, but i wonder how much of this is Vince's ego punishing Styles for holding out of the WWE for so long. He has lost at 3 straight PPV's now. ....of course it could just be that they looked at the landscape and decided they were limited on heels. But again, i have to imagine Styles merch was moving....

 

Interesting time. Another brand split coming. Rumors that NXT might disband and everyone called up.

 

The brand split will really help i think. Guys like Ryback, Cody Rhodes, Barrett....solid guys all of them, basically quit because they weren't getting any time. Smackdown is a joke that just replays RAW and puts on 6-man tags. Hopefully the new show will allow guys like Corbin, Crews, Ziggler, Social Outcasts, Titus Oneill, Zach Ryder and etc to develop their characters more and get over with fans. Lately i just feel that the IC feuds, Reigns and Styles, New day and the divas have been 98% of the programming. You call up Crews and Corbin than barely use them?

 

Anyway we shall see....

 

Also, i am a total mark for Golden Truth. Long live the Golden Truth!!!!!!

[MtlJeff]

Also i didn't post it after Extreme Rules....but Jericho at 45 years old taking a body slam onto the thumbtacks was incredible. I thought the chances of that happening were zero percent. When Ambrose poured them onto the ring my wife freaked out and said "they can't use those right?????" ...And i replied "Vince will NEVER allow it in 2016"....I mean Mick Foley did that in attitude era when he was making a name for himself. Jericho is 45yrs old and is a hall of famer with no need to do stuff like that.

 

I jumped off the sofa when Ambrose slammed him. I really couldn't believe they did it....i can't believe Jericho agreed to do it. And then he took a dirty deeds on the tacks for good measure (note: he said in interviews that the dirty deeds was the worst, because the tacks got into the palms of his hands, which was more painful than anything)

 

Whatever Jericho does from now on, he deserves major respect. Most 45yr olds just put over young guys and try not to pull a hammy. Jericho going at it like he's 25 again.

 

Extreme rules was very good overall. The fatal-4 way was excellent (Sami Zayn has been in how many classic matches now in 2016?), the Jericho/Ambrose match was well worth it....and Reigns/Styles was a ....wait for it....Phenomenal match

[shakey]

With the brand split...I would guess the titles would also split again. U.S. Title to one show...IC to the other?

 

Almost have to think they'd split the World Title again.

[nickham10]

And still waiting to see Cesaro win a title. He really should have went over the Miz.

[MtlJeff]

And still waiting to see Cesaro win a title. He really should have went over the Miz.

 

Brand split will probably be good for guys like Cesaro and Ambrose above anyone....Another heavyweight title up for grabs. So these guys should benefit. Maybe Ambrose wins the Smackdown heavyweight title....and the trickle down effect could see Cesaro with the IC

 

I think Vince is very stubborn. He has never like Cesaro, and the fans backing him after the "brass ring" comment i think just makes him more dug into the sand. They use Cesaro to make everyone look great, but he never wins

 

At the end of the day, it's not a bad living for Cesaro, if he moves his merch, and does all the house shows....he is probably making 500k+ a year doing this. So he's OK. He may even be making close to 1M....it's hard to know.

[MtlJeff]

Usually the post WM PPV's are pretty terrible....but Extreme Rules featured 2 of the highest rated matches of the year (the Fatal 4-way IC match and the Reigns/Styles match)

 

And now, MITB looks like a pretty sick PPV. The ladder match for MITB features Jericho, Ambrose, KO, Cesaro, Zayn and Del Rio....i mean is there any way this will be bad? There's some serious talent in that group. I have to imagine that KO and Ambrose are heavy favorites here. This should be a classic

 

And then you have John Cena vs AJ Styles which should be ridiculous.

 

Seth Rollins vs Roman Reigns in this context, with this buildup, to me is one of the most exciting singles matches in a long time. Every time they've tried to get these guys in the ring there's been injuries either to Reigns (2014) or Rollins (2015). And now both guys have traded the title but never faced each other. And Reigns is coming off maybe his best singles match ever, and Rollins is Rollins.

 

Can't wait!

[MtlJeff]

Dean Ambrose WWE champion!

 

Talk about paying your dues. That guy has put over Rollins and Reigns countless times in the past 2 years, has constantly been pushed back the undercard after mid-level PPV main events, has been the go-to guy as the "face who gets the near miss" at events like Royal Rumble in order to generate more heel heat for a bad guy...All of this despite being arguably the most "over" face in the company, and a guy whose live events tend to do very well when he is the headliner

 

And finally, they hook the guy up. Congrats to Dean Ambrose for putting in all the work and getting rewarded. It's not the same as Daniel Bryan....but it's similar, i don't think Dean has ever been "Vince's guy"....but he just couldn't be ignored.

[shakey]

Dean Ambrose WWE champion!

 

Talk about paying your dues. That guy has put over Rollins and Reigns countless times in the past 2 years, has constantly been pushed back the undercard after mid-level PPV main events, has been the go-to guy as the "face who gets the near miss" at events like Royal Rumble in order to generate more heel heat for a bad guy...All of this despite being arguably the most "over" face in the company, and a guy whose live events tend to do very well when he is the headliner

 

And finally, they hook the guy up. Congrats to Dean Ambrose for putting in all the work and getting rewarded. It's not the same as Daniel Bryan....but it's similar, i don't think Dean has ever been "Vince's guy"....but he just couldn't be ignored.

Let's just hope they don't pull a Zack Ryder with him.

[MtlJeff]

Yeah I hope he doesn't lose it right back at battleground...but it wouldn't surprise me.

[nickham10]

Dean probably keeps it until Summerslam at that point I bet it goes back to Rollins. It will be interesting to see what they do to Roman's character now.

Was really shocked AJ went over Cena, very rare to see Vince have an "outsider type guy" go over one of his stars.

[shakey]

Just saw a report that said Reigns was suspended 30 days for violating the wellness policy. Started after last night and should end right before Battleground.

[CBJ]

Could be reason he is no longer the champ....

[MtlJeff]

Rumor is all parties knew he was going to be suspended prior to MITB. He was allowed to wrestle than will be suspended for basically all programming prior to battleground, but will fight at battleground

 

Will be interesting to see how they storyline this. I think the best course of action would be to admit he violated the program and have Rollins mock it or something like saying he has to cheat to win.... I mean ESPN and others reported it so it's a legit angle they could play. I also think this may benefit Reigns as it might hurt the notion that he is the chosen one by the company, and actually get him more support. I mean they did suspend the guy and not bury it

 

I don't believe it affected the storyline. I had heard rumors that it came down to either KO or Ambrose winning the briefcase, but Vince decided late in the game that the shield reunion was best for business, so Ambrose was given the nod. Having him win the title makes sense since they are doing the brand split, and all 3 guys won't be on the same brand. So they have to do it now....having Ambrose with the belt is the best way to legitimize him, as he has lost constantly to both Rollins and Reigns in the past 2 years. So this was the only way to A) reward him for being a great worker and B) make him a legit threat to both Rollins and Reigns.

 

I don't see Reigns winning the title back at Battleground. I would love to see them keep the belt on Ambrose. Honestly what more does the guy need to do? He has been maybe their best overall worker the last year, and is insanely over.

[MtlJeff]

Will be interesting to see what happens with KO now though. He was my pick to win the briefcase until recently i thought they might give it to Ambrose with the impending brand split and all shield guys healthy. As mentioned i have heard that some in WWE brass wanted him to win it and storylined possibilities with that, but it got overturned late and they went the other direction

 

KO with the briefcase had great potential too, as they could've had Zayn interfere with cash-in attempts, and further that feud leading to an inevitable follow-up 1 on 1 match.

 

But now KO seems above the IC belt, and not quite in the main event as that will be Shield dominated for the next couple of months.

 

My guess is he might get a high profile non-title feud (maybe a returning Randy Orton?) and then end up being the headliner on whichever show he is on (assuming they have separate titles)

 

I would say other than the Shield and Cena, that KO is the next guy, probably the 5th most important guy in the company