Mike Malaska - Getting the club in front of you. Made easy...

[Millbrook]

[quote name='Ajlepisto' timestamp='1449641537' post='12697886']
The thing I noticed that helps is that you can't be trying to get your hands back to the ball. I've found it much easier to hit the ball if you think about trying to line everything up by the time you get your hands to your trailing thigh. There's no way you actually do but otherwise you just won't release it fast enough.
[/quote]

Agree entirely. Mike Bender and his fire the hands at the ball is ruination.

Check out the video below and watch for the position when the hands get to the trail thigh (about 1.30ish);

[media]http://www.revolutiongolf.com/instruction/video-collections/experts/experts/martin-chuck/videos/body-position-and-clubface-rotation-understanding?utm_source=DVT&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=RGPlus[/media]

[Millbrook]

[quote name='TheGeekGolfer' timestamp='1449627269' post='12697256']
I watch this stuff and practice about every other day with a short training club indoors, hoping not to lose this feeling during the winter. I've been playing my best golf since finding this thread, dropped immediately to single digit (6.3) from a 12 at the beginning of summer. This feel / concept and videos along with this [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRaVI6lDPE"]putting technique[/url], which surprisingly has made the biggest difference when applying it to the chipping motion = PURE GOLD!
[/quote]

Nice, thanks for the link. Just swapped to a mallet putter which is great for distance control but my old technique doesnt seem as accurate. Will try this today.

[slantsflood]

Down. Then out.

http://youtu.be/9m2vT5GKUpM

[slantsflood]

I think this is the same thing, just a different way of showing it

[WpgMike]

This is interesting. Look at the move at 50 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOecUNBV_Q0&index=2&list=PLD3737D3F58B0E64A

[slantsflood]

Good find Mike!

[Ghost of Snead]

This is interesting. Look at the move at 50 seconds.

 

 

May have been a feel for Tiger, but IMO he didn't actually stand the club up when he was playing his best.

 

[Golfbeat]

MM says this in a lot of his videos. "It will feel like you stand up the club but it will look like the hands are moving to the ball on video".

[solarbear88]

Its interesting to see Tiger demonstrate the same move and speak about it like it is a fundamental.

[bph7]

[quote name='solarbear88' timestamp='1450651834' post='12744630']
Its interesting to see Tiger demonstrate the same move and speak about it like it is a fundamental.
[/quote]

It is absolutely not a fundamental. It is a great feel for people with specific issues. But if you don't have those issues, this feel is literally about the worst thing you can do. It just depends on how the pieces of your swing fit together and what you need to match everything match up.

[juliette91]

[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1442876868' post='12346786']
Would be nice to actually see her (or him) hit the ball with that drill
[/quote]

She does hit the ball using that drill in succeeding videos. Check out youtube to find them. More important I think is the issue you raise about technical positions and feel. Of course in golf it's never one or the other it's always some combination, but I think the feel part of the equation gets too little attention.

For example, you're 70 feet from the pin with a relatively straight putt on a not not too slopey green. How the heck do you judge how hard to hit that putt? You could do drills that track how far the ball goes depending upon how far you take the putter back.

But in the end that putt is a lot about feel. Or how about that 45 yard pitch shot up hill to a short sided right side pin with a bunker 10 feet to the right of the pin. Sure you know about the clock thing and how far the ball goes if you swing 3:00 to 9:00 but in the end it's much more about feel.

Same with this Malaska drill. It is really about feel and all these board questions about positions and mechanics are I think missing the point.

[Jobu]

Most feels are half right when they are isolated from the complete system. You want to flatten the shaft on the backswing. And steepen it on the downswing. Obviously the shaft isn't flat until the top of the backswing, and it won't be steep until the hands are in front of the ball at impact.

[mikah]

[quote name='juliette91' timestamp='1450808497' post='12752222']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1442876868' post='12346786']
Would be nice to actually see her (or him) hit the ball with that drill
[/quote]

She does hit the ball using that drill in succeeding videos. Check out youtube to find them. More important I think is the issue you raise about technical positions and feel. Of course in golf it's never one or the other it's always some combination, but I think the feel part of the equation gets too little attention.

For example, you're 70 feet from the pin with a relatively straight putt on a not not too slopey green. How the heck do you judge how hard to hit that putt? You could do drills that track how far the ball goes depending upon how far you take the putter back.

But in the end that putt is a lot about feel. Or how about that 45 yard pitch shot up hill to a short sided right side pin with a bunker 10 feet to the right of the pin. Sure you know about the clock thing and how far the ball goes if you swing 3:00 to 9:00 but in the end it's much more about feel.

Same with this Malaska drill. It is really about feel and all these board questions about positions and mechanics are I think missing the point.
[/quote]

Juliette91,

Assuming your NOT referring to the feel of the club, pressure on fingers, arms etc, all which become known to our conscious mind, after the fact; but instead, you are
referring to the subconscious 'feel', that which happens unknown to our conscious mind, in real time, then I'm 100% in agreement.

[juliette91]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1450891891' post='12756164']
[quote name='juliette91' timestamp='1450808497' post='12752222']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1442876868' post='12346786']
Would be nice to actually see her (or him) hit the ball with that drill
[/quote]

She does hit the ball using that drill in succeeding videos. Check out youtube to find them. More important I think is the issue you raise about technical positions and feel. Of course in golf it's never one or the other it's always some combination, but I think the feel part of the equation gets too little attention.

For example, you're 70 feet from the pin with a relatively straight putt on a not not too slopey green. How the heck do you judge how hard to hit that putt? You could do drills that track how far the ball goes depending upon how far you take the putter back.

But in the end that putt is a lot about feel. Or how about that 45 yard pitch shot up hill to a short sided right side pin with a bunker 10 feet to the right of the pin. Sure you know about the clock thing and how far the ball goes if you swing 3:00 to 9:00 but in the end it's much more about feel.

Same with this Malaska drill. It is really about feel and all these board questions about positions and mechanics are I think missing the point.
[/quote]

Juliette91,

Assuming your NOT referring to the feel of the club, pressure on fingers, arms etc, all which become known to our conscious mind, after the fact; but instead, you are
referring to the subconscious 'feel', that which happens unknown to our conscious mind, in real time, then I'm 100% in agreement.
[/quote]

We are of one mind on this one. Yes, the "feel" I'm talking about is what you distinguish so well in your post.

[mikah]

[quote name='juliette91' timestamp='1450895814' post='12756416']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1450891891' post='12756164']
[quote name='juliette91' timestamp='1450808497' post='12752222']
[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1442876868' post='12346786']
Would be nice to actually see her (or him) hit the ball with that drill
[/quote]

She does hit the ball using that drill in succeeding videos. Check out youtube to find them. More important I think is the issue you raise about technical positions and feel. Of course in golf it's never one or the other it's always some combination, but I think the feel part of the equation gets too little attention.

For example, you're 70 feet from the pin with a relatively straight putt on a not not too slopey green. How the heck do you judge how hard to hit that putt? You could do drills that track how far the ball goes depending upon how far you take the putter back.

But in the end that putt is a lot about feel. Or how about that 45 yard pitch shot up hill to a short sided right side pin with a bunker 10 feet to the right of the pin. Sure you know about the clock thing and how far the ball goes if you swing 3:00 to 9:00 but in the end it's much more about feel.

Same with this Malaska drill. It is really about feel and all these board questions about positions and mechanics are I think missing the point.
[/quote]

Juliette91,

Assuming your NOT referring to the feel of the club, pressure on fingers, arms etc, all which become known to our conscious mind, after the fact; but instead, you are
referring to the subconscious 'feel', that which happens unknown to our conscious mind, in real time, then I'm 100% in agreement.
[/quote]

We are of one mind on this one. Yes, the "feel" I'm talking about is what you distinguish so well in your post.
[/quote]

cheers!
and Merry Christmas.

[mikpga]

It's called "The Rotor Swing"...

Mr. Nickols used to teach Mr. Malaska, I do believe...

Here an old post from awhile ago...

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/321501-rotor-swing/page__hl__%20the%20%20rotor%20%20swing

[Millbrook]

Anyone using the MM approach got a comment on a George Gankas video?

[url="https://www.instagram.com/p/-AYb7UCt1I/"]http://www.instagram.com/p/-AYb7UCt1I/[/url]

[Ristlager]

[quote name='Millbrook' timestamp='1451239939' post='12768428']
Anyone using the MM approach got a comment on a George Gankas video?

[url="https://www.instagram.com/p/-AYb7UCt1I/"]http://www.instagram.com/p/-AYb7UCt1I/[/url]
[/quote]

This I would like to know as well. As this is a complete opposite of what he teaches. And stuff like this is what makes this game to confusing for us amateurs. Mike has been called teacher of the year (not that that is a end all accolade), but his weight have to have some merrit. I really can't see how the swing can be so difficult, that the teachings is completely opposite of each other.

Montes latest with Brandon also says the same thing (that Mikes way is not what you want to do.)

[iteachgolf]

You absolutely do not want to do what MM is telling as a feel. It's not a way to swing. It's a drill for someone who shallows the club too much coming down. The club absolutely should not be standing up in transition. It's a drill to get guys who over shallow to shallow less. Shaft should still shallow. For someone who steep a the club in transition or doesn't shallow it in transition this advice would be horrible and would lead to massive pulls, shanks, and wipey fades/slices. It's a FEEL to help a SMALL segment of the golf population. It's not a universally applicable swing thought or a way to swing and is certainly not what you want to actually happen.

That's the issue with videos like this. For a group of people they can be VERY helpful. But for others, and in many cases a majority, it could have a very damaging impact. And amateurs aren't good at determining whether something is applicable to them so they end up trying everything. Most of which isn't applicable and will only do more damage to their swing and game. It's not just a MM thing. The GG move can be over cooked as well. Neither are universally applicable, GG move is what far more people need to work on than the MM one though. That's why you should seek individualized professional help so you know that what you are working on is applicable to your golf swing and won't create even bigger problems. Both those guys are good teachers but in videos like that you are only getting one end of the spectrum that is targeting a very specific audience. And if you don't know where you fall and which direction you should end you will likely only add more confusion. Both videos could right for two VERY different individuals. 99% of people simply need to get individual direction so they know which direction to head. And then get ongoing feedback to make sure they stay in the middle ground and don't over do it and end up on other end of the spectrum.

[sheldonjhacker]

this^^^ and 'nuff said !

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1451247099' post='12768740']
You absolutely do not want to do what MM is telling as a feel. It's not a way to swing. It's a drill for someone who shallows the club too much coming down. The club absolutely should not be standing up in transition. It's a drill to get guys who over shallow to shallow less. Shaft should still shallow. For someone who steep a the club in transition or doesn't shallow it in transition this advice would be horrible and would lead to massive pulls, shanks, and wipey fades/slices. It's a FEEL to help a SMALL segment of the golf population. It's not a universally applicable swing thought or a way to swing and is certainly not what you want to actually happen.

That's the issue with videos like this. For a group of people they can be VERY helpful. But for others, and in many cases a majority, it could have a very damaging impact. And amateurs aren't good at determining whether something is applicable to them so they end up trying everything. Most of which isn't applicable and will only do more damage to their swing and game. It's not just a MM thing. The GG move can be over cooked as well. Neither are universally applicable, GG move is what far more people need to work on than the MM one though. That's why you should seek individualized professional help so you know that what you are working on is applicable to your golf swing and won't create even bigger problems. Both those guys are good teachers but in videos like that you are only getting one end of the spectrum that is targeting a very specific audience. And if you don't know where you fall and which direction you should end you will likely only add more confusion. Both videos could right for two VERY different individuals. 99% of people simply need to get individual direction so they know which direction to head. And then get ongoing feedback to make sure they stay in the middle ground and don't over do it and end up on other end of the spectrum.
[/quote]

Very well said, Dan. I could not agree more.

So much confusion is caused by not knowing the difference between an exagerrated intention as a correction for a swing flaw vs describing objectively what is actually happening or what should be happening, ie the Ideal or Model swing.

[Ristlager]

I can see the whole feel vs real, but Mike is very adamant that the swing thought should be like what he teaches in these videos, he never talks about it only applies to those who need to shallow out less. It is the way for everyone. The people he teaches mostly have an over the top kind of swing. And he specifically states that you should bet your money on yourself if you are playing against the people who do the GG/Monte move.

He knows that it doesn't look like that in real, and that it propably looks a lot like what GG says (when you swing with Mikes theory), but that you never should try to do the GG move when you search for a feel.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Ristlager' timestamp='1451252678' post='12768994']
I can see the whole feel vs real, but Mike is very adamant that the swing thought should be like what he teaches in these videos, he never talks about it only applies to those who need to shallow out less. It is the way for everyone. The people he teaches mostly have an over the top kind of swing. And he specifically states that you should bet your money on yourself if you are playing against the people who do the GG/Monte move.

He knows that it doesn't look like that in real, and that it propably looks a lot like what GG says (when you swing with Mikes theory), but that you never should try to do the GG move when you search for a feel.
[/quote]

If he believes that universally then I would say he's completely wrong. The Hall of Fame is full of guys who did the GG move and many of them actively tried to do it including Hogan, Snead, and many others. Not many guys in the HOF have clubhead outside the hands at P6 let alone the club standing up in transition. Overwhelming number of guys in the HOF have the clubhead behind their hands coming down though.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='CrisPy3' timestamp='1442797554' post='12341534']
<p><a class="bbc_url" href="https://youtu.be/1ii-FU3PouE" rel="nofollow external" title="External link">https://youtu.be/1ii-FU3PouE</a>



Monte, Dan... Please tell me the swing works this way, because it makes a TON of of sense in my mind.



Mike explains that one needs to actually try to stand the shaft UP to start the downswing. In fact, if you watch most of his videos, it's about 1 of the only things he teaches so he must feel pretty strongly about this. And for those willing to discount it too quickly - I believe he worked with Jack at 1 time and currently works with a few LPGA players... Anyway this is the OPPOSITE of laying the club down and shallowing out (something everyone is fascinated with at the moment). Is this another "illusion" the golf swing plays on us?
[/quote]

Replace the golf club with a tennis racquet and it may make sense visually to some folks. If you let the racquet get laid off and behind then the racquet face is wide open and you'll send the ball wide right (bad) unless you flip it closed. The ball will land in the court - but it will have lost most of its power.

Good stuff.

[dlg199]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1451253549' post='12769038']
[quote name='Ristlager' timestamp='1451252678' post='12768994']
I can see the whole feel vs real, but Mike is very adamant that the swing thought should be like what he teaches in these videos, he never talks about it only applies to those who need to shallow out less. It is the way for everyone. The people he teaches mostly have an over the top kind of swing. And he specifically states that you should bet your money on yourself if you are playing against the people who do the GG/Monte move.

He knows that it doesn't look like that in real, and that it propably looks a lot like what GG says (when you swing with Mikes theory), but that you never should try to do the GG move when you search for a feel.
[/quote]

If he believes that universally then I would say he's completely wrong. The Hall of Fame is full of guys who did the GG move and many of them actively tried to do it including Hogan, Snead, and many others. Not many guys in the HOF have clubhead outside the hands at P6 let alone the club standing up in transition. Overwhelming number of guys in the HOF have the clubhead behind their hands coming down though.
[/quote]

I believe MM states that the clubhead[i] wants[/i] to shallow in the downswing due to physics so the feel is universal in getting the clubhead on plane so momentum can be used accelerate and naturally square the clubhead (he states that you don't need to pound 15,000 golf balls to get it). Dan, do you have any video evidence of an MM student with the "clubhead outside hands at P6" and the "club standing up in transition"? I just want to verify that what MM teaches is truly just the "feel" and not the "real". I have not looked at any video myself but with your statement I assume you are saying the positions you describe will[i] actually[/i] occur if one applies these swing thoughts.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='dlg199' timestamp='1451255477' post='12769158']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1451253549' post='12769038']
[quote name='Ristlager' timestamp='1451252678' post='12768994']
I can see the whole feel vs real, but Mike is very adamant that the swing thought should be like what he teaches in these videos, he never talks about it only applies to those who need to shallow out less. It is the way for everyone. The people he teaches mostly have an over the top kind of swing. And he specifically states that you should bet your money on yourself if you are playing against the people who do the GG/Monte move.

He knows that it doesn't look like that in real, and that it propably looks a lot like what GG says (when you swing with Mikes theory), but that you never should try to do the GG move when you search for a feel.
[/quote]

If he believes that universally then I would say he's completely wrong. The Hall of Fame is full of guys who did the GG move and many of them actively tried to do it including Hogan, Snead, and many others. Not many guys in the HOF have clubhead outside the hands at P6 let alone the club standing up in transition. Overwhelming number of guys in the HOF have the clubhead behind their hands coming down though.
[/quote]

I believe MM states that the clubhead[i] wants[/i] to shallow in the downswing due to physics so the feel is universal in getting the clubhead on plane so momentum can be used accelerate and naturally square the clubhead (he states that you don't need to pound 15,000 golf balls to get it). Dan, do you have any video evidence of an MM student with the "clubhead outside hands at P6" and the "club standing up in transition"? I just want to verify that what MM teaches is truly just the "feel" and not the "real". I have not looked at any video myself but with your statement I assume you are saying the positions you describe will[i] actually[/i] occur if one applies these swing thoughts.
[/quote]

I think you have this completely backwards. The proof it would be only a feel and not reality would be that his good players DONT stand the shaft up in transition and are SHALLOWING and NOT doing what he is saying. If it was real they would be doing what he is saying which would mean they would be standing up the club. A ton of guys trying this move will actually steepen the club and stand up the shaft. Including multiple people in this thread already have.

The club doesn't want to shallow in transition. To claim it does because of physics is not only wrong but laughable. If physics wanted to shallow it 95% of amateurs wouldn't be steepening the club in transition. And a tony of people actively try to shallow it and still can't. Which goes completely against the "physics makes it wanna shallow".

To shallow the club the clubhead must be working down FASTER than the arms are working down. Majority of golfers pull arms down in transition. The physics there would cause the club to STEEPEN. When arms work down in transition, and the clubhead has way more inertia than the arms and will resist changing direction more, will cause arms to work down FASTER than the clubhead.

So in the real world physics, the inertia on clubhead is far greater than the arms making it difficult to get clubhead working down faster than the arms, is working to steepen the club. Which is 100% why the overwhelming majority of golfers steepen the club in transition rather than shallow it. Momentum is working against you shallowing it and making it easier to get arms working down faster than the clubhead.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='dlg199' timestamp='1451255477' post='12769158']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1451253549' post='12769038']
[quote name='Ristlager' timestamp='1451252678' post='12768994']
I can see the whole feel vs real, but Mike is very adamant that the swing thought should be like what he teaches in these videos, he never talks about it only applies to those who need to shallow out less. It is the way for everyone. The people he teaches mostly have an over the top kind of swing. And he specifically states that you should bet your money on yourself if you are playing against the people who do the GG/Monte move.

He knows that it doesn't look like that in real, and that it propably looks a lot like what GG says (when you swing with Mikes theory), but that you never should try to do the GG move when you search for a feel.
[/quote]

If he believes that universally then I would say he's completely wrong. The Hall of Fame is full of guys who did the GG move and many of them actively tried to do it including Hogan, Snead, and many others. Not many guys in the HOF have clubhead outside the hands at P6 let alone the club standing up in transition. Overwhelming number of guys in the HOF have the clubhead behind their hands coming down though.
[/quote]

I believe MM states that the clubhead[i] wants[/i] to shallow in the downswing due to physics so the feel is universal in getting the clubhead on plane so momentum can be used accelerate and naturally square the clubhead (he states that you don't need to pound 15,000 golf balls to get it). Dan, do you have any video evidence of an MM student with the "clubhead outside hands at P6" and the "club standing up in transition"? I just want to verify that what MM teaches is truly just the "feel" and not the "real". I have not looked at any video myself but with your statement I assume you are saying the positions you describe will[i] actually[/i] occur if one applies these swing thoughts.
[/quote]

I agree with you. He's talking about feel - not arguing physics. You can see the physics on video - but further explanation about physics is meaningless - without being able to understand (to a FEEL player) what the correction should feel like.

That's all Malaska is saying IMO. As simply as:

1) don't try to copy the image you see....it will lead to bad physics...even if it feels proper.
2) to correct the physics - you need to try a different feel (OTT but inside)..but it will lead to a bad image.

As per GolfWRX - don't fall into the trap of repeating the error in step 1. You are not trying to recreate that image at all. You're getting a new feeling that's associated with that image. That's all.

In general if you're going to argue the bad-physics of the new feel - you will be wrong. You've missed the point of Malaska's video.

IMO where GolfWRX tends to devolve is when one simply argues physics to a feel player. The physics is truth - but it's only 1/2 of the puzzle. People don't feel "physics/reality" in the same way. That is what lots of teachers don't understand. You could show me pictures all day long and explain theory all day long - but if you can't teach me a FEEL that matches the physics - it's a pointless discussion.

That is where Malaska may make sense to some people - he's telling you a different feel to match the proper physics.

He's not just arguing physics.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1451260069' post='12769408']
[quote name='dlg199' timestamp='1451255477' post='12769158']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1451253549' post='12769038']
[quote name='Ristlager' timestamp='1451252678' post='12768994']
I can see the whole feel vs real, but Mike is very adamant that the swing thought should be like what he teaches in these videos, he never talks about it only applies to those who need to shallow out less. It is the way for everyone. The people he teaches mostly have an over the top kind of swing. And he specifically states that you should bet your money on yourself if you are playing against the people who do the GG/Monte move.

He knows that it doesn't look like that in real, and that it propably looks a lot like what GG says (when you swing with Mikes theory), but that you never should try to do the GG move when you search for a feel.
[/quote]

If he believes that universally then I would say he's completely wrong. The Hall of Fame is full of guys who did the GG move and many of them actively tried to do it including Hogan, Snead, and many others. Not many guys in the HOF have clubhead outside the hands at P6 let alone the club standing up in transition. Overwhelming number of guys in the HOF have the clubhead behind their hands coming down though.
[/quote]

I believe MM states that the clubhead[i] wants[/i] to shallow in the downswing due to physics so the feel is universal in getting the clubhead on plane so momentum can be used accelerate and naturally square the clubhead (he states that you don't need to pound 15,000 golf balls to get it). Dan, do you have any video evidence of an MM student with the "clubhead outside hands at P6" and the "club standing up in transition"? I just want to verify that what MM teaches is truly just the "feel" and not the "real". I have not looked at any video myself but with your statement I assume you are saying the positions you describe will[i] actually[/i] occur if one applies these swing thoughts.
[/quote]

I agree with you. He's talking about feel - not arguing physics. You can see the physics on video - but further explanation about physics is meaningless - without being able to understand (to a FEEL player) what the correction should feel like.

That's all Malaska is saying IMO. As simply as:

1) don't try to copy the image you see....it will lead to bad physics...even if it feels proper.
2) to correct the physics - you need to try a different feel (OTT but inside)..but it will lead to a bad image.

As per GolfWRX - don't fall into the trap of repeating the error in step 1. You are not trying to recreate that image at all. You're getting a new feeling that's associated with that image. That's all.

In general if you're going to argue the bad-physics of the new feel - you will be wrong. You've missed the point of Malaska's video.

IMO where GolfWRX tends to devolve is when one simply argues physics to a feel player. The physics is truth - but it's only 1/2 of the puzzle. People don't feel "physics/reality" in the same way. That is what lots of teachers don't understand. You could show me pictures all day long and explain theory all day long - but if you can't teach me a FEEL that matches the physics - it's a pointless discussion.

That is where Malaska may make sense to some people - he's telling you a different feel to match the proper physics.

He's not just arguing physics.
[/quote]

You say I misunderstood his video. Can assure you I didn't. You misunderstand what I wrote. Physics isn't shallowing the shaft. If anything it's working against shallowing it. If physics was automatically shallowing the shaft you wouldn't have a majority of golfers hitting wipe slices and pulls.

I said multiple times the video could absolutely help a player who shallows it too much. But that player could eventually steepen it too much, which is exactly what happened to at least one person in this thread already. That feel will absolutely hurt someone that already steepens the club in transition and that feel will NOT get someone to shallow it if they are currently steepening it. It will make their problem worse. Like I said the feel could work for a good number of people, but it will likely hurt just as many as it'd help. my post was 100% about using a feel to correct mechanics and how a feel, even if not real, can be very helpful IF it fits with your tendencies. The issue is if you keep working toward the extreme with a feel that isn't real it will eventually become real and be overdone. And if you already where someone who over did it trying to do it more wouldn't help at all and only make it worse

[iteachgolf]

That feel will NOT match the physics unless you are someone who shallows it too much. If you're already steepening it in transition trying to stand the club up more will never "match the physics" and make the club shallow.

Btw OTT but inside is 100% the GG feel. Where arms work out and the clubhead works down. Arms work OTT and clubhead drops down. The MM feel is arms deep and club standing up. That is the OPPOSITE of OTT but inside. It's not inside of anything. The clubhead is kicking OUTSIDE the hands.

[Jobu]

Would you say that if a golfer is steep in transition, their swing flaw is more likely in their backswing or their downswing?