Ping lie angles and shaft length

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Hello,

I was hitting the new Ping i, we tested lie with tape and I tested the red dot, I have played purple on my previus Ping.

We agreeed that I should play purple and Ping graphite regular shaft.

If I want to play 1/2" shorter shaft, would that be black, red or purple that I should test?

purple is still fine... unless you need your lie angle more upright to correct ball flight ( losing shots right ) then consider red or black.

[wdfwguy]

If you take several Ping heads with no shafts, black, red, maroon dot, they'd all have the same lie angle? That makes no sense at all.

 

That's how it is.

 

That is not correct. Let me clarify/explain using an example. If you take three heads from the PING fitting cart, all UNSHAFTED fitting cart heads:

 

Head 1: marked purple dot

Head 2: marked black dot

Head 3: marked yellow dot

 

These three heads do NOT have the same STATIC lie angle (keep in mind, still unshafted fitting cart heads). However, if you insert different length shafts into those fitting cart heads, there may be some overlap as to their EFFECTIVE lie angle. Lets say you (A) inserted a standard length shaft into the yellow dot head and (B) inserted a +1" shaft into the black dot head, here is what the specs would come out to be:

 

(A) Yellow dot, standard length.

(B) Yellow dot, +1".

 

These two would now have the same EFFECTIVE lie angle, just being played at different lengths. There is a difference between static lie angle and effective lie angle. I think people misunderstanding of static vs effective lie angle is where most the confusion comes into play.

 

I think it's confusing because you're a little confused. A black dot head in a +1" shaft doesn't magically "come out to be" yellow dot. And if you order clubs yellow dot and +1", Ping doesn't build with a black dot head. That's ridiculous.

 

And yes, I understand what effective lie angle is...

[sTmGolfer]

If you take several Ping heads with no shafts, black, red, maroon dot, they'd all have the same lie angle? That makes no sense at all.

 

That's how it is.

 

That is not correct. Let me clarify/explain using an example. If you take three heads from the PING fitting cart, all UNSHAFTED fitting cart heads:

 

Head 1: marked purple dot

Head 2: marked black dot

Head 3: marked yellow dot

 

These three heads do NOT have the same STATIC lie angle (keep in mind, still unshafted fitting cart heads). However, if you insert different length shafts into those fitting cart heads, there may be some overlap as to their EFFECTIVE lie angle. Lets say you (A) inserted a standard length shaft into the yellow dot head and (B) inserted a +1" shaft into the black dot head, here is what the specs would come out to be:

 

(A) Yellow dot, standard length.

(B) Yellow dot, +1".

 

These two would now have the same EFFECTIVE lie angle, just being played at different lengths. There is a difference between static lie angle and effective lie angle. I think people misunderstanding of static vs effective lie angle is where most the confusion comes into play.

 

I think it's confusing because you're a little confused. A black dot head in a +1" shaft doesn't magically "come out to be" yellow dot. And if you order clubs yellow dot and +1", Ping doesn't build with a black dot head. That's ridiculous.

 

And yes, I understand what effective lie angle is...

 

Not if you are using a FITTING CART HEAD that is black dot. If you put in a 1" over standard length shaft into that black dot FITTING CART HEAD, the spec would be +1" yellow dot. When it ships from PING, it'll be built as such, +1" yellow dot.

 

I've been a PING fitter for 9 years. I understand the fitting cart system quite well.

[Sonic]

So it means that the i20 set I just saw on Callawaygolfpre-owned in white dot +1.5'' would become blue dot if someone just cut the shaft to standard length?

[Nessism]

So it means that the i20 set I just saw on Callawaygolfpre-owned in white dot +1.5'' would become blue dot if someone just cut the shaft to standard length?

 

Correct, assuming the clubs were built by Ping originally.

[HackerD]

So it means that the i20 set I just saw on Callawaygolfpre-owned in white dot +1.5'' would become blue dot if someone just cut the shaft to standard length?

 

Correct, assuming the clubs were built by Ping originally.

So if you buy used clubs that were reshafted with different length shafts, color code may not match lie angle.

[HackerD]

Is Ping the only OEM that uses this sort of system? If one ordered Mizuno +1", 3° up, would the measured lie angle be standard+3, or something else?

[LCP]

The way to think about this so it's not so confusing is to think that standard lie is black dot, which is a 37.25" golf club at a 61.5º lie angle. If you want standard length too, you get a 6 iron at a 61.5º lie angle. If you go two color codes more upright from black dot you get a 37.25" golf club at a 63.0º lie angle. If you want standard length, yellow dot, you get a 37.25" 6 iron at a 63º lie angle. If you want +1" length, yellow dot, instead of a 6 iron at a 63º lie angle, you get a 37.25" 8 iron at a 63º lie angle (which is the same lie angle as a standard length 36.25" 8 iron).

 

I'm maroon dot. Maroon dot is 6 color codes upright (4.5º). At maroon dot, a 37.25" club would be a 66º lie angle. Roughly speaking, my 37.25" club is a +2" length sand wedge. 2 inches in length is substituted for 4 color codes of upright adjustment, leaving 2 color codes of upright adjustment to go. Stated lie for standard length 35.25" sand wedge is 64.5º. There's 1.5º (2 color codes) between 64.5º and 66º, so it computes like that.

 

The dot system is just a code for a specific lie angle for a specific length club (regardless of what club it is -- anywhere between 4 iron to sand wedge, etc.). Then you order the length club you need at the color lie angle that fits you.

[Nessism]

Is Ping the only OEM that uses this sort of system? If one ordered Mizuno +1", 3° up, would the measured lie angle be standard+3, or something else?

 

I believe Mizuno separates head angle from length in their fitting methodology.

[Sonic]

Is Ping the only OEM that uses this sort of system? If one ordered Mizuno +1", 3° up, would the measured lie angle be standard+3, or something else?

 

I believe Mizuno separates head angle from length in their fitting methodology.

 

When I got fitted for Mizuno irons a couple years ago the final specs sheet said 2*up standard length.

I think Ping is the only one witha confusing method.

[bjofal]

Hello,

I was hitting the new Ping i, we tested lie with tape and I tested the red dot, I have played purple on my previus Ping.

We agreeed that I should play purple and Ping graphite regular shaft.

If I want to play 1/2" shorter shaft, would that be black, red or purple that I should test?

purple is still fine... unless *you need your lie angle more upright to correct ball flight ( losing shots right ) then consider red or black.

Hello,

Thanks, no, my shots tends to go left, like a hook or draw, I dont know if I have the heel of the club in the ground, I have a set that is 2* flat that seems to work fine.

[sTmGolfer]

So it means that the i20 set I just saw on Callawaygolfpre-owned in white dot +1.5'' would become blue dot if someone just cut the shaft to standard length?

 

Correct, assuming the clubs were built by Ping originally.

So if you buy used clubs that were reshafted with different length shafts, color code may not match lie angle.

 

Correct. General rule is that any 1/2" change in length from the factory build by PING will change the color code by one color per every 1/2".

 

So if someone had factory built clubs, purple dot, -1/2" and they reshafted them to standard length ... They now play, effectively, red dot at standard length.

 

When you send clubs into PING for adjustments such as these, they change the color code and change the serial numbers specs in their system. Anytime someone buys used PING equipment, they should verify the original PING specs via the serial number to see if any alterations have been made to the original specs.

[sbeduckman]

If you take several Ping heads with no shafts, black, red, maroon dot, they'd all have the same lie angle? That makes no sense at all.

 

That's how it is.

 

That is not correct. Let me clarify/explain using an example. If you take three heads from the PING fitting cart, all UNSHAFTED fitting cart heads:

 

Head 1: marked purple dot

Head 2: marked black dot

Head 3: marked yellow dot

 

These three heads do NOT have the same STATIC lie angle (keep in mind, still unshafted fitting cart heads). However, if you insert different length shafts into those fitting cart heads, there may be some overlap as to their EFFECTIVE lie angle. Lets say you (A) inserted a standard length shaft into the yellow dot head and (B) inserted a +1" shaft into the black dot head, here is what the specs would come out to be:

 

(A) Yellow dot, standard length.

(B) Yellow dot, +1".

 

These two would now have the same EFFECTIVE lie angle, just being played at different lengths. There is a difference between static lie angle and effective lie angle. I think people misunderstanding of static vs effective lie angle is where most the confusion comes into play.

 

I think it's confusing because you're a little confused. A black dot head in a +1" shaft doesn't magically "come out to be" yellow dot. And if you order clubs yellow dot and +1", Ping doesn't build with a black dot head. That's ridiculous.

 

And yes, I understand what effective lie angle is...

 

It may be ridiculous, but that's how they do it. My Pings are +1", silver dot; so the heads are green (pre yellow dot option) and the extra inch makes them silver. I've bought head only Pings before and always contact ping first to see what length they were built at. I called on a set of green dot i20s and was told they were standard lie angle heads because they were ordered an inch over standard.

[The Chicken Connoisseur]

Ok I'm really confused. Yes I understand effective lie angle.

 

So let's pretend Im in a shop with a fitting cart with different color heads I can attach to any shaft they have. If I find that a Black dot head with a 2" over length shaft fits me best, am I supposed to order '+2", Black dot'? Or something else??

[HackerD]

Ok I'm really confused. Yes I understand effective lie angle.

 

So let's pretend Im in a shop with a fitting cart with different color heads I can attach to any shaft they have. If I find that a Black dot head with a 2" over length shaft fits me best, am I supposed to order '+2", Black dot'? Or something else??

 

According to what I've read in this thread, you would add 1.5° for every inch of length, so your spec would be +2", 3° up (white). This is the Ping system.

[sTmGolfer]

Ok I'm really confused. Yes I understand effective lie angle.

 

So let's pretend Im in a shop with a fitting cart with different color heads I can attach to any shaft they have. If I find that a Black dot head with a 2" over length shaft fits me best, am I supposed to order '+2", Black dot'? Or something else??

 

According to what I've read in this thread, you would add 1.5° for every inch of length, so your spec would be +2", 3° up (white). This is the Ping system.

 

That is correct. +2" white dot would be your required specs.

[The Chicken Connoisseur]

That's stupid. It also means my golf shop has been fitting everyone wrong

[Nessism]

That's stupid. It also means my golf shop has been fitting everyone wrong

 

Doesn't Ping offer fitting training? Seem to me your shop needs some instruction, and no, that is not meant as a knock. Ping's system is atypical, and unless someone explains it and does some training it's not very intuitive.

[uoouvu]

I was confused when I started reading this thread, Then I thought I had it figured out when I understood the difference between static and effective lie angle. But, the last few posts have me a bit confused again. I recently ordered a new set of Irons from Ping. when I ordered them, I told the store they were supposed to be blue dot +1.5", which are the specs Ping gave me when I called and gave them the number off my current set. The standard length is the same for both sets of Irons. Will the clubs be the same?

[sTmGolfer]

I was confused when I started reading this thread, Then I thought I had it figured out when I understood the difference between static and effective lie angle. But, the last few posts have me a bit confused again. I recently ordered a new set of Irons from Ping. when I ordered them, I told the store they were supposed to be blue dot +1.5", which are the specs Ping gave me when I called and gave them the number off my current set. The standard length is the same for both sets of Irons. Will the clubs be the same?

 

Give them your serial number and to match the specs, if you're looking for the same. Takes all the guessing out. Ping will match all the specs.

[uoouvu]

OK, I will do that. Just so I understand though, are my current clubs truly blue dot that would turn into another color on the chart with a standard length shaft, or are they another color on the chart when static that has been given a blue dot because they got longer shafts?

[Nessism]

OK, I will do that. Just so I understand though, are my current clubs truly blue dot that would turn into another color on the chart with a standard length shaft, or are they another color on the chart when static that has been given a blue dot because they got longer shafts?

 

+1.5" and blue dot have the same head angle as a set of purple dot clubs built at standard length.

 

Remember: Ping color codes do not reference definitive angles.

[sTmGolfer]

OK, I will do that. Just so I understand though, are my current clubs truly blue dot that would turn into another color on the chart with a standard length shaft, or are they another color on the chart when static that has been given a blue dot because they got longer shafts?

 

+1.5" and blue dot have the same head angle as a set of purple dot clubs built at standard length.

 

Remember: Ping color codes do not reference definitive angles.

 

^^^^ that "remember" statement sums up this entire thread. The color code only references the EFFECTIVE lie angle for that particular set.

 

So there is no "______ color heads". Think of like this ... A big pile of iE1 9 irons sitting in a bucket, no color codes ... Just blank. Orders are placed, PING looks at the specs and determines how much they need to be bent based off of length then applies the proper color code.

[ccorrada]

It sounds like Ping started doing this to avoid making molds and heads of every different lie angle (color code). This is sad news. I thought Ping was the only one doing it right until I read this thread. It would be a lot easier to fit people using the old way. This is only going to create confusion and incorrect fittings.

 

Does anyone know when the old method stopped and the new method started?

 

i just had a similar experience with Nike. I ordered the exact specs I wanted and the irons came in 0.25* short. They said they measure differently. I wish every manufacturer used the same standard.

[Nessism]

It sounds like Ping started doing this to avoid making molds and heads of every different lie angle (color code). This is sad news. I thought Ping was the only one doing it right until I read this thread. It would be a lot easier to fit people using the old way. This is only going to create confusion and incorrect fittings.

 

Does anyone know when the old method stopped and the new method started?

 

i just had a similar experience with Nike. I ordered the exact specs I wanted and the irons came in 0.25* short. They said they measure differently. I wish every manufacturer used the same standard.

 

Ping has always fitted clubs the same way, and there is nothing wrong with it. You can get any length, lie angle, and swingweight you could possibly want. What's the issue?

[ccorrada]

It sounds like Ping started doing this to avoid making molds and heads of every different lie angle (color code). This is sad news. I thought Ping was the only one doing it right until I read this thread. It would be a lot easier to fit people using the old way. This is only going to create confusion and incorrect fittings.

 

Does anyone know when the old method stopped and the new method started?

 

i just had a similar experience with Nike. I ordered the exact specs I wanted and the irons came in 0.25* short. They said they measure differently. I wish every manufacturer used the same standard.

 

Ping has always fitted clubs the same way, and there is nothing wrong with it. You can get any length, lie angle, and swingweight you could possibly want. What's the issue?

The issue is that if I know that my specs are 38" length 63* lie six iron, I would look at pings specs and order Yellow Dot plus 0.75" and what all of you are saying is that I would actually get something else.

[uoouvu]

Cool, what I'm taking away from this is that the color codes they put on the club deals specifically with EFFECTIVE lie angle, and I should have just given my current set's serial number to match specs. But, I am assuming that if the clubs get here before they can change the order they most likely will be the same as the clubs I have now. Really the only issue I had was, if am told that my clubs are blue dot +1.5 and I call and order that and get something completely different then what good is putting any color on the clubs?

[Nessism]

The issue is that if I know that my specs are 38" length 63* lie six iron, I would look at pings specs and order Yellow Dot plus 0.75" and what all of you are saying is that I would actually get something else.

 

If you want a set like that you would order +3/4" and Green dot. Simple. You just gotta learn how the Ping fitting system works.

[sTmGolfer]

It sounds like Ping started doing this to avoid making molds and heads of every different lie angle (color code). This is sad news. I thought Ping was the only one doing it right until I read this thread. It would be a lot easier to fit people using the old way. This is only going to create confusion and incorrect fittings.

 

Does anyone know when the old method stopped and the new method started?

 

i just had a similar experience with Nike. I ordered the exact specs I wanted and the irons came in 0.25* short. They said they measure differently. I wish every manufacturer used the same standard.

 

This is the way PING has always done it. There system has not changed with the exception of of a few color codes being added. It truly is a simple system once understood.

 

I know it gets said a lot, but get fit and get fit by someone you trust is doing their job well.

[ccorrada]

It sounds like Ping started doing this to avoid making molds and heads of every different lie angle (color code). This is sad news. I thought Ping was the only one doing it right until I read this thread. It would be a lot easier to fit people using the old way. This is only going to create confusion and incorrect fittings.

 

Does anyone know when the old method stopped and the new method started?

 

i just had a similar experience with Nike. I ordered the exact specs I wanted and the irons came in 0.25* short. They said they measure differently. I wish every manufacturer used the same standard.

 

This is the way PING has always done it. There system has not changed with the exception of of a few color codes being added. It truly is a simple system once understood.

 

I know it gets said a lot, but get fit and get fit by someone you trust is doing their job well.

 

I don't understand the benefit of doing it this way, why not just have static lie angles correspond to color codes? That way there are no charts no adjusting, no confusion.