Ping lie angles and shaft length

sTmGolfer · June 5, 2016

It sounds like Ping started doing this to avoid making molds and heads of every different lie angle (color code). This is sad news. I thought Ping was the only one doing it right until I read this thread. It would be a lot easier to fit people using the old way. This is only going to create confusion and incorrect fittings.

Does anyone know when the old method stopped and the new method started?

i just had a similar experience with Nike. I ordered the exact specs I wanted and the irons came in 0.25* short. They said they measure differently. I wish every manufacturer used the same standard.

This is the way PING has always done it. There system has not changed with the exception of of a few color codes being added. It truly is a simple system once understood.

I know it gets said a lot, but get fit and get fit by someone you trust is doing their job well.

I don't understand the benefit of doing it this way, why not just have static lie angles correspond to color codes? That way there are no charts no adjusting, no confusion.

Because if you take a static lie angle club head ... Let's say 7 iron for example ... Any time you change length, it effectively wouldn't play the same anymore. If you did it the way you're advising, a black dot standard length and a black dot +1" wouldn't effectively play the same.

Length affects effective lie angles. If you go into a PING fitting saying "I need _______" with regards to static lie angles, I think it'd be the wrong approach. Let the fitter fit you to the proper length and color code and call it a day.

Birddog2 · June 5, 2016

That's stupid. It also means my golf shop has been fitting everyone wrong

Doesn't Ping offer fitting training? Seem to me your shop needs some instruction, and no, that is not meant as a knock. Ping's system is atypical, and unless someone explains it and does some training it's not very intuitive.

Gotta remember, Ping is an engineering company that builds golf clubs...

ccorrada · June 6, 2016

It sounds like Ping started doing this to avoid making molds and heads of every different lie angle (color code). This is sad news. I thought Ping was the only one doing it right until I read this thread. It would be a lot easier to fit people using the old way. This is only going to create confusion and incorrect fittings.

Does anyone know when the old method stopped and the new method started?

i just had a similar experience with Nike. I ordered the exact specs I wanted and the irons came in 0.25* short. They said they measure differently. I wish every manufacturer used the same standard.

This is the way PING has always done it. There system has not changed with the exception of of a few color codes being added. It truly is a simple system once understood.

I know it gets said a lot, but get fit and get fit by someone you trust is doing their job well.

I don't understand the benefit of doing it this way, why not just have static lie angles correspond to color codes? That way there are no charts no adjusting, no confusion.

Because if you take a static lie angle club head ... Let's say 7 iron for example ... Any time you change length, it effectively wouldn't play the same anymore. If you did it the way you're advising, a black dot standard length and a black dot +1" wouldn't effectively play the same.

Length affects effective lie angles. If you go into a PING fitting saying "I need _______" with regards to static lie angles, I think it'd be the wrong approach. Let the fitter fit you to the proper length and color code and call it a day.

That still doesn't make sense. Of course a black dot plus 1" wouldn't play like black dot standard length. That doesn't mean that black dot +1" isn't someones perfect spec.

sTmGolfer · June 6, 2016

It sounds like Ping started doing this to avoid making molds and heads of every different lie angle (color code). This is sad news. I thought Ping was the only one doing it right until I read this thread. It would be a lot easier to fit people using the old way. This is only going to create confusion and incorrect fittings.

Does anyone know when the old method stopped and the new method started?

i just had a similar experience with Nike. I ordered the exact specs I wanted and the irons came in 0.25* short. They said they measure differently. I wish every manufacturer used the same standard.

This is the way PING has always done it. There system has not changed with the exception of of a few color codes being added. It truly is a simple system once understood.

I know it gets said a lot, but get fit and get fit by someone you trust is doing their job well.

I don't understand the benefit of doing it this way, why not just have static lie angles correspond to color codes? That way there are no charts no adjusting, no confusion.

Because if you take a static lie angle club head ... Let's say 7 iron for example ... Any time you change length, it effectively wouldn't play the same anymore. If you did it the way you're advising, a black dot standard length and a black dot +1" wouldn't effectively play the same.

Length affects effective lie angles. If you go into a PING fitting saying "I need _______" with regards to static lie angles, I think it'd be the wrong approach. Let the fitter fit you to the proper length and color code and call it a day.
That still doesn't make sense. Of course a black dot plus 1" wouldn't play like black dot standard length. That doesn't mean that black dot +1" isn't someones perfect spec.

Maybe I'm failing to see the confusion ...? You can order black dot +1" without any problems, if that's the specs you want/need.

ShowMe · June 6, 2016

Out of curiosity, whats the geometry behind this? If I had two clubs each with the same static lie but one with a 1" longer shaft, wouldn't I just automatically address the ball 1" further from my body with the longer club and they'd still both have the same lie?

ccorrada · June 6, 2016

Out of curiosity, whats the geometry behind this? If I had two clubs each with the same static lie but one with a 1" longer shaft, wouldn't I just automatically address the ball 1" further from my body with the longer club and they'd still both have the same lie?

According to this thread, Ping would make it flatter whether you like it or not.

Nessism · June 6, 2016

Out of curiosity, whats the geometry behind this? If I had two clubs each with the same static lie but one with a 1" longer shaft, wouldn't I just automatically address the ball 1" further from my body with the longer club and they'd still both have the same lie?

Yes, the static lie would not change just because shaft was longer.

As for using said club, the club that is 1" longer will have the toe sticking up higher than the shorter club when you held them in the playing position.

As for Ping's method being confusing, or not, you would have to take this up with Ping. They do training for their fitters during which time you learn the ins and outs of their fitting method. It's a perfectly serviceable method, obviously, since Ping is famous for their custom fitting. The problem comes in when comparing their method to those from a different OEM. There is no right or wrong here, just different.

ShowMe · June 7, 2016

Out of curiosity, whats the geometry behind this? If I had two clubs each with the same static lie but one with a 1" longer shaft, wouldn't I just automatically address the ball 1" further from my body with the longer club and they'd still both have the same lie?

Yes, the static lie would not change just because shaft was longer.

As for using said club, the club that is 1" longer will have the toe sticking up higher than the shorter club when you held them in the playing position.

So as the shaft gets longer, the lie angle needs to get flatter to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

This is why if you get fit to a Ping Green dot (2.25* upright) with a standard shaft length, if you increase the shaft length by .5" you'll need to move to say a Yellow dot (which is .75* flatter than a Green dot) to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

Got it, thanks.

Nessism · June 7, 2016

Out of curiosity, whats the geometry behind this? If I had two clubs each with the same static lie but one with a 1" longer shaft, wouldn't I just automatically address the ball 1" further from my body with the longer club and they'd still both have the same lie?

Yes, the static lie would not change just because shaft was longer.

As for using said club, the club that is 1" longer will have the toe sticking up higher than the shorter club when you held them in the playing position.

So as the shaft gets longer, the lie angle needs to get flatter to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

This is why if you get fit to a Ping Green dot (2.25* upright) with a standard shaft length, if you increase the shaft length by .5" you'll need to move to say a Yellow dot (which is .75* flatter than a Green dot) to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

Got it, thanks.

Actually, if you were fit standard length Green dot but at a later time you decided you wanted to try +.5", you would still order Green dot. Ping would flatten the lie angle by .75* because of the longer shaft, and the clubs would show up at your door with the dot colored Green.

ShowMe · June 8, 2016

Out of curiosity, whats the geometry behind this? If I had two clubs each with the same static lie but one with a 1" longer shaft, wouldn't I just automatically address the ball 1" further from my body with the longer club and they'd still both have the same lie?

Yes, the static lie would not change just because shaft was longer.

As for using said club, the club that is 1" longer will have the toe sticking up higher than the shorter club when you held them in the playing position.

So as the shaft gets longer, the lie angle needs to get flatter to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

This is why if you get fit to a Ping Green dot (2.25* upright) with a standard shaft length, if you increase the shaft length by .5" you'll need to move to say a Yellow dot (which is .75* flatter than a Green dot) to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

Got it, thanks.

Actually, if you were fit standard length Green dot but at a later time you decided you wanted to try +.5", you would still order Green dot. Ping would flatten the lie angle by .75* because of the longer shaft, and the clubs would show up at your door with the dot colored Green.

So their color coding system is based on effective lie not static lie? That could certainly cause some issues for people who buy used sets of Ping irons if, for example, they get them reshafted not realizing the original shafts are non-standard lengths. Seems like it would be less confusing to use static lie as the color coding schema and then just move to a different color for non-standard length shafts.

Bad9 · June 8, 2016

Out of curiosity, whats the geometry behind this? If I had two clubs each with the same static lie but one with a 1" longer shaft, wouldn't I just automatically address the ball 1" further from my body with the longer club and they'd still both have the same lie?

Yes, the static lie would not change just because shaft was longer.

As for using said club, the club that is 1" longer will have the toe sticking up higher than the shorter club when you held them in the playing position.

So as the shaft gets longer, the lie angle needs to get flatter to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

This is why if you get fit to a Ping Green dot (2.25* upright) with a standard shaft length, if you increase the shaft length by .5" you'll need to move to say a Yellow dot (which is .75* flatter than a Green dot) to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

Got it, thanks.

Actually, if you were fit standard length Green dot but at a later time you decided you wanted to try +.5", you would still order Green dot. Ping would flatten the lie angle by .75* because of the longer shaft, and the clubs would show up at your door with the dot colored Green.

So their color coding system is based on effective lie not static lie? That could certainly cause some issues for people who buy used sets of Ping irons if, for example, they get them reshafted not realizing the original shafts are non-standard lengths. Seems like it would be less confusing to use static lie as the color coding schema and then just move to a different color for non-standard length shafts.

I doubt Ping is too concerned with people having issues buying used clubs. Their business is selling custom fit, new clubs through their trained retailers and fitters.

ccorrada · June 8, 2016

Out of curiosity, whats the geometry behind this? If I had two clubs each with the same static lie but one with a 1" longer shaft, wouldn't I just automatically address the ball 1" further from my body with the longer club and they'd still both have the same lie?

Yes, the static lie would not change just because shaft was longer.

As for using said club, the club that is 1" longer will have the toe sticking up higher than the shorter club when you held them in the playing position.

So as the shaft gets longer, the lie angle needs to get flatter to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

This is why if you get fit to a Ping Green dot (2.25* upright) with a standard shaft length, if you increase the shaft length by .5" you'll need to move to say a Yellow dot (which is .75* flatter than a Green dot) to ensure the club's sole is level with the ground.

Got it, thanks.

Actually, if you were fit standard length Green dot but at a later time you decided you wanted to try +.5", you would still order Green dot. Ping would flatten the lie angle by .75* because of the longer shaft, and the clubs would show up at your door with the dot colored Green.

So their color coding system is based on effective lie not static lie? That could certainly cause some issues for people who buy used sets of Ping irons if, for example, they get them reshafted not realizing the original shafts are non-standard lengths. Seems like it would be less confusing to use static lie as the color coding schema and then just move to a different color for non-standard length shafts.

Ding ding ding, exactly what I was saying. It's also an issue for people who know their specs and order direct from Ping.

uoouvu · June 9, 2016

For what it's worth, I ordered my new set of clubs an inch longer than my last ones. They are both blue dot, only difference is new ones have a longer shaft. The lie angle appears to be the same .75 upright over standard on both.

Nessism · June 9, 2016

Ding ding ding, exactly what I was saying. It's also an issue for people who know their specs and order direct from Ping...and don't bother to learn the Ping fitting methodology.

Fixed it for ya...

ShowMe · June 10, 2016

For what it's worth, I ordered my new set of clubs an inch longer than my last ones. They are both blue dot, only difference is new ones have a longer shaft. The lie angle appears to be the same .75 upright over standard on both.

Apparently then, based on Ping's fitting methodology, your new clubs have an effective lie angle that's about 2* more upright than your previous set if the static lie angle is the same on both sets of clubs.

High Plains Driver · June 10, 2016

For what it's worth, I ordered my new set of clubs an inch longer than my last ones. They are both blue dot, only difference is new ones have a longer shaft. The lie angle appears to be the same .75 upright over standard on both.

Did you order the same model? PING's "standard" lie varies depending on the model. The PING S55 has a standard 5 iron at 60.75°, the G30 5 iron at 60°, and the G 5 iron at 61.5°.

I was told back in the 90's that PING uses this system so that the customer doesn't have to know that they play a 38.5" 5 iron at 62° lie. They just need to remember their length and color code. If all they know is "I am a green dot", then even if the length is wrong, no matter the model picked, the lie should be pretty close.

uoouvu · June 10, 2016

I'm sure they would effectively play like a different color if I didn't choke up on them an inch, which I do and they work just fine.

They are not the same model, I went from I 10's to S55's, but they do have the same standard length and lie listed for both these models on their website. The lofts and offset are different but he standard length and lie is the same. And again, both sets are blue dot with different length shafts and they have the same static lie angle.

ShowMe · June 10, 2016

I'm sure they would effectively play like a different color if I didn't choke up on them an inch, which I do and they work just fine.

They are not the same model, I went from I 10's to S55's, but they do have the same standard length and lie listed for both these models on their website. The lofts and offset are different but he standard length and lie is the same. And again, both sets are blue dot with different length shafts and they have the same static lie angle.

Sounds like by choking up an inch you're essentially playing the club at the same length as your previous ones, so it's a good that they both have the same static lie angle. Kudos if you planned it that way. If not, it accidentally worked out for you.

ShowMe · June 10, 2016

Ding ding ding, exactly what I was saying. It's also an issue for people who know their specs and order direct from Ping...and don't bother to learn the Ping fitting methodology.

Fixed it for ya...

As long as everybody understands their methodology is based on effective lie angle, not static, and understands what effective lie angle means, it's all good. I'd guess most of the posters on this board would know or could figure it out if they knew they had to. I'm glad for this thread, as it made me aware of the need to think of it in terms of effective lie after assuming something different for the past 4 yrs that I've played Ping irons.

Not sure the average golfer wants to take the time to figure it out, though But, most of them would likely just buy the standard off the rack set anyway, so perhaps it's moot for them.

uoouvu · June 10, 2016

Definitely an accident on my part. I thought I heard the dude say +1.5 when I called about the old ones and I ordered the wrong length.

Nessism · June 10, 2016

Did you order the same model? PING's "standard" lie varies depending on the model. The PING S55 has a standard 5 iron at 60.75°, the G30 5 iron at 60°, and the G 5 iron at 61.5°.

Actually, the G 5-iron is 60*, just like the G30. The information on Ping.com for the G is based off a YELLOW dot, which is 1.5* upright.

dlygrisse · June 10, 2016

In my mind the Ping fitting system makes SO MUCH more sense than anyone elses, which is why I generally play their clubs.

If you are yellow dot (which I am) then your clubs effectively play 1.5 upright no matter the shaft length.

So if you are reshafting a set of Pings, and want them to play true to their color code make sure the shaft length stays the same.

Konklifer · March 29, 2017

Bringing this thread back to life. My current specs are:

5 37.75" 59.00°

6 37.25" 59.50°

7 36.75" 60.00°

8 36.25" 60.50°

9 35.75" 61.00°

PW 35.50" 61.50°

AW 35.25" 61.50°

So how would I order a set of i200's?

Nessism · March 29, 2017

Bringing this thread back to life. My current specs are:

5 37.75" 59.00°
6 37.25" 59.50°
7 36.75" 60.00°
8 36.25" 60.50°
9 35.75" 61.00°
PW 35.50" 61.50°
AW 35.25" 61.50°

So how would I order a set of i200's?

The specs you detail here don't match any Ping lie progression. Orange dot is the closest.

Konklifer · March 29, 2017

Bringing this thread back to life. My current specs are:

5 37.75" 59.00°
6 37.25" 59.50°
7 36.75" 60.00°
8 36.25" 60.50°
9 35.75" 61.00°
PW 35.50" 61.50°
AW 35.25" 61.50°

So how would I order a set of i200's?

The specs you detail here don't match any Ping lie progression. Orange dot is the closest.

They are the specs on my X Hot Pros. I have orange dot wedges due to them being std. length.

I've read through this thread a few times. Maybe I'm dense, but I'm not sure how I would order the irons to match my current specs.

Nessism · March 29, 2017

Bringing this thread back to life. My current specs are:

5 37.75" 59.00°
6 37.25" 59.50°
7 36.75" 60.00°
8 36.25" 60.50°
9 35.75" 61.00°
PW 35.50" 61.50°
AW 35.25" 61.50°

So how would I order a set of i200's?

The specs you detail here don't match any Ping lie progression. Orange dot is the closest.

They are the specs on my X Hot Pros. I have orange dot wedges due to them being std. length.

I've read through this thread a few times. Maybe I'm dense, but I'm not sure how I would order the irons to match my current specs.

Since that is a non standard lie angle progression I think you would have to order through their WRX department. A quick phone call would confirm one way or another.

duffer987 · March 29, 2017

Interesting thread :)

I was searching to see about ordering additional Ping irons for a smaller set than I am used to (I know you can order 'replacement' irons, but wasn't sure about extending a set) and this lie info is great. I play red + 0.5" in some S55s and if I buy a set that is yellow + 0.25", it now makes sense (Pingsense) how they'd sort the two out.

Thanks folks!