What would rejuvenate the golf equipment industry?

[tannyhoban]

I am curious as to why we need to rejuvenate anything?

We currently have

• the most equipment choices, newest technology and lowest prices (adjusted for inflation) that we've ever had
  
• golf balls are incredible and their technology ranges from a great 2-layer design to crazy 6-layer constructs, with every price point and feel in between
  
• the most customizable club and equipment options ever, from fitting, Trackman, adjustable clubs, different colors, grips, etc
  
• an incredible amount of clubs, from crappy to nice munis to high-end private clubs
  
• a relatively interesting PGA Tour with multiple winners, storylines (TW coming back? Phil trying to hit a drive in the FW, Dustin finally winnning, Rory clinching the FedEx cup)
  

What exactly is wrong with any of the above that needs fixing?

Now if you ask me how to speed up the game and make it so that we can get a round in without planning for 2/3 of an entire day gone, let's talk!!!

 

Where on Gawds green earth does it take 16 hours to golf???

 

It's not so much where, but with whom.

 

 

But of course. My duh.

[Dayton]

Tiger Woods buying TM would rejuvenate the equipment industry. He still moves the needle in the golf industry.

Yeah, that's why Nike did so well. Oh wait .......

[Railroading13]

Next innovation that will help avg. player? Golf ball tracking. Would save huge amounts of time on rounds and allow the avg. player to not go through a sleeve every 9 holes. How could this be done? No clue LOL

[Balloon]

You can't drive down prices with without driving down quality.

 

You can! Just reconsider your profit expectations and your marketing spendings. 200 Million for a pro to play a company’s clubs is ridiculous. The customers are expected to pay the bill.

 

 

 

 

To answer the tread openers question:

 

The only way to rejuvenate the equipment market is a drop all equipment rules. Within a year drives would travel 500 yards and everybody would buy the new equipment, now legal.

[jpdx]

Tiger Woods buying TM would rejuvenate the equipment industry. He still moves the needle in the golf industry.

Yeah, that's why Nike did so well. Oh wait .......

 

I think a healthy and resurgent TW would rejuvenate the equipment biz. I'm not so sure that just him BUYING TM would do it. I still believe that more players would be (youth, millennials and minorities) #1. pricing would be #2.

[jslane57]

Get kids off their damn iPads, iPhones, Xbox's, Facebooks, Tinders, SnapChats etc.

Haha! They go there to escape the demanding old farts! Instead get these technologies to co-exist with golf. Not every shot, but with promotion and excitement...

[BigHook25]

You can't drive down prices with without driving down quality.

 

You can! Just reconsider your profit expectations and your marketing spendings. 200 Million for a pro to play a company’s clubs is ridiculous. The customers are expected to pay the bill.

 

 

 

 

To answer the tread openers question:

 

The only way to rejuvenate the equipment market is a drop all equipment rules. Within a year drives would travel 500 yards and everybody would buy the new equipment, now legal.

 

I believe there is or used to be equipment and golf balls you could buy that was illegal. I don't see that big of a market for that though even if major manufacturers pushed it. Many golfers play in tournaments and I don't think people want to cheat that much. It would be like getting two extra balls everytime you bowl with 4 less pins. Also, just 400 yard drives that would go ever further off line.

[LansingMI]

Dropping all equipment rules would sell more equipment. Otherwise this is just the beginning of the decline. It will hit rock bottom somewhere, but we're not there just yet

[Balloon]

 

I believe there is or used to be equipment and golf balls you could buy that was illegal. I don't see that big of a market for that though even if major manufacturers pushed it. Many golfers play in tournaments and I don't think people want to cheat that much.

 

 

If that type of equipment is made legal, where is the cheating?

[bladehunter]

I'm not sure it needs to be rejuvenated. Let the weak die and leave the Stronger companies to make us what we NEED. Then introduce a ball rule and a driver cc and COR rule to pull distance back . We don't need to continue to artificially grow the game. To do that it has to be changed. To excite those that aren't interested in golf. I like golf. I don't like this sport we are growing. Yet I'm still caught up in the bomb and gouge movement to keep up.

 

And before I get jumped on , look. I'm not wanting to see any one loose a job. But we all know that the cream of the jndustry will have no issue finding another one with a competitor. We can't keep bastardizing the game in the name of profit. If we do it will cease exist as we grew up playing it. Why not start a " save the game " campaign to get the distance pulled back from the pro and high rank am levels. Better and longer players would copy cat that and eventually the hack would too. And those that played illegal clubs for fun. Who cares ? But that's just me.

[tannyhoban]

I'm not sure it needs to be rejuvenated. Let the weak die and leave the Stronger companies to make us what we NEED. Then introduce a ball rule and a driver cc and COR rule to pull distance back . We don't need to continue to artificially grow the game. To do that it has to be changed. To excite those that aren't interested in golf. I like golf. I don't like this sport we are growing. Yet I'm still caught up in the bomb and gouge movement to keep up.

 

And before I get jumped on , look. I'm not wanting to see any one loose a job. But we all know that the cream of the jndustry will have no issue finding another one with a competitor. We can't keep bastardizing the game in the name of profit. If we do it will cease exist as we grew up playing it. Why not start a " save the game " campaign to get the distance pulled back from the pro and high rank am levels. Better and longer players would copy cat that and eventually the hack would too. And those that played illegal clubs for fun. Who cares ? But that's just me.

 

I think the USGA has done more than enough to "save" the game.

[Sean2]

I'm not sure it needs to be rejuvenated. Let the weak die and leave the Stronger companies to make us what we NEED. Then introduce a ball rule and a driver cc and COR rule to pull distance back . We don't need to continue to artificially grow the game. To do that it has to be changed. To excite those that aren't interested in golf. I like golf. I don't like this sport we are growing. Yet I'm still caught up in the bomb and gouge movement to keep up.

 

And before I get jumped on , look. I'm not wanting to see any one loose a job. But we all know that the cream of the jndustry will have no issue finding another one with a competitor. We can't keep bastardizing the game in the name of profit. If we do it will cease exist as we grew up playing it. Why not start a " save the game " campaign to get the distance pulled back from the pro and high rank am levels. Better and longer players would copy cat that and eventually the hack would too. And those that played illegal clubs for fun. Who cares ? But that's just me.

 

I think the USGA has done more than enough to "save" the game.

 

No doubt about that!

[Imhappyinthe80s]

Jonesscott winning a Major

[bladehunter]

I'm not sure it needs to be rejuvenated. Let the weak die and leave the Stronger companies to make us what we NEED. Then introduce a ball rule and a driver cc and COR rule to pull distance back . We don't need to continue to artificially grow the game. To do that it has to be changed. To excite those that aren't interested in golf. I like golf. I don't like this sport we are growing. Yet I'm still caught up in the bomb and gouge movement to keep up.

 

And before I get jumped on , look. I'm not wanting to see any one loose a job. But we all know that the cream of the jndustry will have no issue finding another one with a competitor. We can't keep bastardizing the game in the name of profit. If we do it will cease exist as we grew up playing it. Why not start a " save the game " campaign to get the distance pulled back from the pro and high rank am levels. Better and longer players would copy cat that and eventually the hack would too. And those that played illegal clubs for fun. Who cares ? But that's just me.

 

I think the USGA has done more than enough to "save" the game.

 

I'm with you on the groove rule. But think about it. That was to offset the crazy distances. They treated the symptom and not the affliction. Guys aren't hitting wedge into every hole without the 320-340 yard drives. We are going to see 400 yard drives regularly within the next couple years of things keep going as is. Usga has done things. But they were stupid things. Action isn't progress unless it's the correct actions.

[TollBros]

Elect politicians who will create and environment that stimulates the economy. Strong economy=more golfers=more=golf being played=more equipment being sold.

 

Very true. Let's see those days of 2005-2006 when everyone was seemingly printing money.

[tannyhoban]

I see a day in the not too distant future where 3D printing will reinvent how we manufacture components in all industries.

 

How it impacts sporting goods and golf equipment will be interesting. Perhaps the 3D models themselves will be the "hard good" sold to various licensees who then create at point of purchase. Tour vans will be little factories instead of assembly units.

 

A customer will have infinite customization. So IP will rule and the equipment company with the strident R&D coupled with the best legal team will rule in golf.

 

And we will be debating that hot new driver is better in 9.876 degrees or 9.578 degrees.

 

And it will be a bootleggers paradise once again.

[Joe90]

Tiger Woods buying TM would rejuvenate the equipment industry. He still moves the needle in the golf industry.

Yeah, that's why Nike did so well. Oh wait .......

 

Well the fact they packed up when he was not playing proves the point he is the needle. Rory and co just did nothing.

[doctorjedi]

Non conforming drivers.

[carn9698]

All day fitting sessions not rushed with breaks in between.

 

Iron testing heads with long irons and short irons as well as 7 irons.

 

Outdoor grass testing centres with launch monitors.

 

Bendable fairways and hybrids like Wishon do.

 

The dropping of white heads

 

Screw in iron shafts

 

Adjustable putter hosels coupled with Ping adjustable length shaft.

 

 

 

 

[hahanice]

I agree with the speed up the pace of play/ free up manufacturers argument/ lower equipment cost/ simplify the rules argument. But I'm not convinced that this will really move the needle or that we need it too. Some people catch the bug, some don't.

 

 

I only buy used or heavily discounted clubs. Because I know I will not see any real difference in my scoring I do not find the need to upgrade clubs too often, though I like to tinker with new ideas. I sort of got to this point because of the crazy product cycles. I would be researching, and then something new would be coming out. Then I would wait for reviews and same thing. Eventually I realized I could get a 2 year old driver for near $100. Same with irons. I went in to golfsmith after a ton of research to get some Mizuno irons. They were going to set me back about $900. I was on eBay a few days later and saw some Wilson staff m3 irons for $200 brand new. I really wanted black irons so i just went ahead and got them.

 

If clubs were priced competitively, I would get new items yearly. Same with those friends of mine who play regularly.

 

My friends who play once a month or less couldnt care less about what clubs they play. But if prices were low enough I bet they would buy the odd club here and there, or even a decent set.

 

I actually like the rules, those who don't care can simply ignore them. My friends will do that if they aren't golfers. No problem. But I don't like the idea that a decent golfer can just slam a ball OB, take a drop, chip on and 2 putt for bogey every hole (I don't care if we're just having a good time, but don't claim to have beaten me not playing the rules). The muni by me has only red stakes and it doesn't really help the pace of play. Too many golfers who can't get the ball off the ground.

 

The reality is, golf is just leveling back out. It wasn't sustainable really. The average course near me is about 80$ to play on a Saturday. The munis are about 60$. What new player wants to sign up for that twice a week. I am hoping this means courses are more open and reasonably priced, and equipment costs go down

 

 

I need to work on shortening my posts

[pinestreetgolf]

I really think this thread is ignoring the PGA Tour being awful, which is the face of golf, like it or not. Virtually all the suggestions in this thread require that someone be trying golf already (cheaper equipment, non-conforming equipment, faster rounds, cheaper lessons, etc.. etc... etc..). All of these require someone to say "you know what? i want to check out this golf thing".

 

Like it or not, the PGA Tour is the face of golf, and it is awful. Like i said in my earlier post, its just a bunch of interchangable whitebread dudes with virtually identical swings competing to see who can be slightly more precise with their 50/55/60 degree wedges.

 

Sports get to a point where they get solved and need to be changed. Football experienced this and drastically loosened the pass interference rules after Lovie Smith's bears defense made games insanely boring - after the rule change the "Tampa 2" didn't work anymore. Basketball did this when the post-Jordan era turned into a post up slugfest by disallowing the hand check on the perimeter and instituting defensive 3 seconds so nobody could clog the paint - and it worked, perimeter players became relevant again and drives and 3s exploded. When the Red Wings destroyed everyone by playing incredibly boring dump-and-forecheck, they changed the rules. *all* sports eventually get solved and have to change. Note, they can split the rules for pros and us.

 

Its time to do something. People like Broadie (love his work) have basically proven the "best" way to play golf, and the guys on Tour these days are clones of each other. Think about Day versus Johnson. They have slightly different grips and Johnson outswings him by about 3 mph on average but they are basically the same player. Palmer and Player were completely different because nobody had yet figured out the best way to play golf is to be incredibly long, have clock distances with wedges, and line-on-ball putt. Watching the PGA tour is like watching the late 90s knicks. Its basketball, but its boring and awful.

 

The PGA Tour desperately needs a shakeup. People loved Tiger because he shook it up - super long, sulper different, tons of emotion. Now? Kevin Chappell battling Kevin Kisner and some other whitebread dude on a tree-lined course week after week after week playing driver/wedge/putter. It sucks and its killing people coming into golf.

 

IMO of course. Unless you get into golf via family member or friend, its because you see it on TV. And the PGA tour is the most vanilla and boring its been, well, ever.

 

Basketball shoes are to the NBA what Equipment is to the PGA Tour. If the tour doesn't get way more exciting really fast its going to keep shrinking.

[tannyhoban]

I agree with the speed up the pace of play/ free up manufacturers argument/ lower equipment cost/ simplify the rules argument. But I'm not convinced that this will really move the needle or that we need it too. Some people catch the bug, some don't.

 

 

I only buy used or heavily discounted clubs. Because I know I will not see any real difference in my scoring I do not find the need to upgrade clubs too often, though I like to tinker with new ideas. I sort of got to this point because of the crazy product cycles. I would be researching, and then something new would be coming out. Then I would wait for reviews and same thing. Eventually I realized I could get a 2 year old driver for near $100. Same with irons. I went in to golfsmith after a ton of research to get some Mizuno irons. They were going to set me back about $900. I was on eBay a few days later and saw some Wilson staff m3 irons for $200 brand new. I really wanted black irons so i just went ahead and got them.

 

If clubs were priced competitively, I would get new items yearly. Same with those friends of mine who play regularly.

 

My friends who play once a month or less couldnt care less about what clubs they play. But if prices were low enough I bet they would buy the odd club here and there, or even a decent set.

 

I actually like the rules, those who don't care can simply ignore them. My friends will do that if they aren't golfers. No problem. But I don't like the idea that a decent golfer can just slam a ball OB, take a drop, chip on and 2 putt for bogey every hole (I don't care if we're just having a good time, but don't claim to have beaten me not playing the rules). The muni by me has only red stakes and it doesn't really help the pace of play. Too many golfers who can't get the ball off the ground.

 

The reality is, golf is just leveling back out. It wasn't sustainable really. The average course near me is about 80$ to play on a Saturday. The munis are about 60$. What new player wants to sign up for that twice a week. I am hoping this means courses are more open and reasonably priced, and equipment costs go down

 

 

I need to work on shortening my posts

 

The notion that new golf clubs are more expensive now than bitd is pure fairy tale.

 

Check the msrp of top equipment from the 80's and 90's if you don't believe me.

[jslane57]

I agree with the speed up the pace of play/ free up manufacturers argument/ lower equipment cost/ simplify the rules argument. But I'm not convinced that this will really move the needle or that we need it too. Some people catch the bug, some don't.

 

 

I only buy used or heavily discounted clubs. Because I know I will not see any real difference in my scoring I do not find the need to upgrade clubs too often, though I like to tinker with new ideas. I sort of got to this point because of the crazy product cycles. I would be researching, and then something new would be coming out. Then I would wait for reviews and same thing. Eventually I realized I could get a 2 year old driver for near $100. Same with irons. I went in to golfsmith after a ton of research to get some Mizuno irons. They were going to set me back about $900. I was on eBay a few days later and saw some Wilson staff m3 irons for $200 brand new. I really wanted black irons so i just went ahead and got them.

 

If clubs were priced competitively, I would get new items yearly. Same with those friends of mine who play regularly.

 

My friends who play once a month or less couldnt care less about what clubs they play. But if prices were low enough I bet they would buy the odd club here and there, or even a decent set.

 

I actually like the rules, those who don't care can simply ignore them. My friends will do that if they aren't golfers. No problem. But I don't like the idea that a decent golfer can just slam a ball OB, take a drop, chip on and 2 putt for bogey every hole (I don't care if we're just having a good time, but don't claim to have beaten me not playing the rules). The muni by me has only red stakes and it doesn't really help the pace of play. Too many golfers who can't get the ball off the ground.

 

The reality is, golf is just leveling back out. It wasn't sustainable really. The average course near me is about 80$ to play on a Saturday. The munis are about 60$. What new player wants to sign up for that twice a week. I am hoping this means courses are more open and reasonably priced, and equipment costs go down

 

 

I need to work on shortening my posts

I like this post. It is true that lowering prices and lowering green fees and speeding up play and all of that may not move the needle. In fact it may push away more folks than it gains as many folks don't like change. The leveling out will probably have the opposite effect. As courses close down, the ones that remain will charge even more. As equipment sales go down, the prices will go up to pad the profits. I don't see how golf remains accessible if it is not being used by the masses. It just moves farther and farther away from accessible and into a world of elitism. And really, that's where many want it. There are votes cast regularly at Country Clubs to go semi-private, public, or stay private with increased dues and assessments. The increased dues and assessments win out as much as any other option...

[pinestreetgolf]

I agree with the speed up the pace of play/ free up manufacturers argument/ lower equipment cost/ simplify the rules argument. But I'm not convinced that this will really move the needle or that we need it too. Some people catch the bug, some don't.

 

 

I only buy used or heavily discounted clubs. Because I know I will not see any real difference in my scoring I do not find the need to upgrade clubs too often, though I like to tinker with new ideas. I sort of got to this point because of the crazy product cycles. I would be researching, and then something new would be coming out. Then I would wait for reviews and same thing. Eventually I realized I could get a 2 year old driver for near $100. Same with irons. I went in to golfsmith after a ton of research to get some Mizuno irons. They were going to set me back about $900. I was on eBay a few days later and saw some Wilson staff m3 irons for $200 brand new. I really wanted black irons so i just went ahead and got them.

 

If clubs were priced competitively, I would get new items yearly. Same with those friends of mine who play regularly.

 

My friends who play once a month or less couldnt care less about what clubs they play. But if prices were low enough I bet they would buy the odd club here and there, or even a decent set.

 

I actually like the rules, those who don't care can simply ignore them. My friends will do that if they aren't golfers. No problem. But I don't like the idea that a decent golfer can just slam a ball OB, take a drop, chip on and 2 putt for bogey every hole (I don't care if we're just having a good time, but don't claim to have beaten me not playing the rules). The muni by me has only red stakes and it doesn't really help the pace of play. Too many golfers who can't get the ball off the ground.

 

The reality is, golf is just leveling back out. It wasn't sustainable really. The average course near me is about 80$ to play on a Saturday. The munis are about 60$. What new player wants to sign up for that twice a week. I am hoping this means courses are more open and reasonably priced, and equipment costs go down

 

 

I need to work on shortening my posts

I like this post. It is true that lowering prices and lowering green fees and speeding up play and all of that may not move the needle. In fact it may push away more folks than it gains as many folks don't like change. The leveling out will probably have the opposite effect. As courses close down, the ones that remain will charge even more. As equipment sales go down, the prices will go up to pad the profits. I don't see how golf remains accessible if it is not being used by the masses. It just moves farther and farther away from accessible and into a world of elitism. And really, that's where many want it. There are votes cast regularly at Country Clubs to go semi-private, public, or stay private with increased dues and assessments. The increased dues and assessments win out as much as any other option...

 

You guys are re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic. The issue isn't current people who play or are interested in golf. The issue is getting new players in similar numbers to Tiger-era. Nothing else will move the needle in an industry worth several billion dollars.

[tannyhoban]

Economics dictate prices folks, so that isn't gonna change. And since when does the PGA on tour drive participation?

 

Weren't most golf fanatics playing instead of watching during the peak years??

[jslane57]

I agree with the speed up the pace of play/ free up manufacturers argument/ lower equipment cost/ simplify the rules argument. But I'm not convinced that this will really move the needle or that we need it too. Some people catch the bug, some don't.

 

 

I only buy used or heavily discounted clubs. Because I know I will not see any real difference in my scoring I do not find the need to upgrade clubs too often, though I like to tinker with new ideas. I sort of got to this point because of the crazy product cycles. I would be researching, and then something new would be coming out. Then I would wait for reviews and same thing. Eventually I realized I could get a 2 year old driver for near $100. Same with irons. I went in to golfsmith after a ton of research to get some Mizuno irons. They were going to set me back about $900. I was on eBay a few days later and saw some Wilson staff m3 irons for $200 brand new. I really wanted black irons so i just went ahead and got them.

 

If clubs were priced competitively, I would get new items yearly. Same with those friends of mine who play regularly.

 

My friends who play once a month or less couldnt care less about what clubs they play. But if prices were low enough I bet they would buy the odd club here and there, or even a decent set.

 

I actually like the rules, those who don't care can simply ignore them. My friends will do that if they aren't golfers. No problem. But I don't like the idea that a decent golfer can just slam a ball OB, take a drop, chip on and 2 putt for bogey every hole (I don't care if we're just having a good time, but don't claim to have beaten me not playing the rules). The muni by me has only red stakes and it doesn't really help the pace of play. Too many golfers who can't get the ball off the ground.

 

The reality is, golf is just leveling back out. It wasn't sustainable really. The average course near me is about 80$ to play on a Saturday. The munis are about 60$. What new player wants to sign up for that twice a week. I am hoping this means courses are more open and reasonably priced, and equipment costs go down

 

 

I need to work on shortening my posts

I like this post. It is true that lowering prices and lowering green fees and speeding up play and all of that may not move the needle. In fact it may push away more folks than it gains as many folks don't like change. The leveling out will probably have the opposite effect. As courses close down, the ones that remain will charge even more. As equipment sales go down, the prices will go up to pad the profits. I don't see how golf remains accessible if it is not being used by the masses. It just moves farther and farther away from accessible and into a world of elitism. And really, that's where many want it. There are votes cast regularly at Country Clubs to go semi-private, public, or stay private with increased dues and assessments. The increased dues and assessments win out as much as any other option...

 

You guys are re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic. The issue isn't current people who play or are interested in golf. The issue is getting new players in similar numbers to Tiger-era. Nothing else will move the needle in an industry worth several billion dollars.

Yes, re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic. LOL. But true. If a course needs so much $$$ to operate, how is lowering rates going to bring in more money? Especially when the busy times are already full and the empty times have always been empty. Then add the closing of neighboring courses and lower prices? Nope. The misses reality of the Tiger era is this. There were not more golfers. There were golfers golfing 10 times per month. Then recession, and 10 times per month became 4 times per month. Now those golfers are old and still only golfing 4 times per month at discounted rates. No new golfers were ever really in the tunnel, it was all the hype of good times...

[pinestreetgolf]

Economics dictate prices folks, so that isn't gonna change. And since when does the PGA on tour drive participation?

 

Weren't most golf fanatics playing instead of watching during the peak years??

 

Huh? Why are watching and playing exclusive?

 

Tiger exploded the game while being on the PGA Tour, because people (non-golfers) watched him. Then they tried golf. The exact same reason you saw non-basketball players wear Air Jordans. The same exact thing happened with Arnold Palmer. There have been several over the years, but none since Tiger.

 

Of course the Tour drives participation. Its the face of golf for four hours on a broadcast network twice a weekend.

 

I can't tell if this is a serious post of not.

[pinestreetgolf]

I agree with the speed up the pace of play/ free up manufacturers argument/ lower equipment cost/ simplify the rules argument. But I'm not convinced that this will really move the needle or that we need it too. Some people catch the bug, some don't.

 

 

I only buy used or heavily discounted clubs. Because I know I will not see any real difference in my scoring I do not find the need to upgrade clubs too often, though I like to tinker with new ideas. I sort of got to this point because of the crazy product cycles. I would be researching, and then something new would be coming out. Then I would wait for reviews and same thing. Eventually I realized I could get a 2 year old driver for near $100. Same with irons. I went in to golfsmith after a ton of research to get some Mizuno irons. They were going to set me back about $900. I was on eBay a few days later and saw some Wilson staff m3 irons for $200 brand new. I really wanted black irons so i just went ahead and got them.

 

If clubs were priced competitively, I would get new items yearly. Same with those friends of mine who play regularly.

 

My friends who play once a month or less couldnt care less about what clubs they play. But if prices were low enough I bet they would buy the odd club here and there, or even a decent set.

 

I actually like the rules, those who don't care can simply ignore them. My friends will do that if they aren't golfers. No problem. But I don't like the idea that a decent golfer can just slam a ball OB, take a drop, chip on and 2 putt for bogey every hole (I don't care if we're just having a good time, but don't claim to have beaten me not playing the rules). The muni by me has only red stakes and it doesn't really help the pace of play. Too many golfers who can't get the ball off the ground.

 

The reality is, golf is just leveling back out. It wasn't sustainable really. The average course near me is about 80$ to play on a Saturday. The munis are about 60$. What new player wants to sign up for that twice a week. I am hoping this means courses are more open and reasonably priced, and equipment costs go down

 

 

I need to work on shortening my posts

I like this post. It is true that lowering prices and lowering green fees and speeding up play and all of that may not move the needle. In fact it may push away more folks than it gains as many folks don't like change. The leveling out will probably have the opposite effect. As courses close down, the ones that remain will charge even more. As equipment sales go down, the prices will go up to pad the profits. I don't see how golf remains accessible if it is not being used by the masses. It just moves farther and farther away from accessible and into a world of elitism. And really, that's where many want it. There are votes cast regularly at Country Clubs to go semi-private, public, or stay private with increased dues and assessments. The increased dues and assessments win out as much as any other option...

 

You guys are re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic. The issue isn't current people who play or are interested in golf. The issue is getting new players in similar numbers to Tiger-era. Nothing else will move the needle in an industry worth several billion dollars.

Yes, re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic. LOL. But true. If a course needs so much $$$ to operate, how is lowering rates going to bring in more money? Especially when the busy times are already full and the empty times have always been empty. Then add the closing of neighboring courses and lower prices? Nope. The misses reality of the Tiger era is this. There were not more golfers. There were golfers golfing 10 times per month. Then recession, and 10 times per month became 4 times per month. Now those golfers are old and still only golfing 4 times per month at discounted rates. No new golfers were ever really in the tunnel, it was all the hype of good times...

 

If those statistics are true, you'd have a point. Where did you get them?

[jslane57]

I agree with the speed up the pace of play/ free up manufacturers argument/ lower equipment cost/ simplify the rules argument. But I'm not convinced that this will really move the needle or that we need it too. Some people catch the bug, some don't.

 

 

I only buy used or heavily discounted clubs. Because I know I will not see any real difference in my scoring I do not find the need to upgrade clubs too often, though I like to tinker with new ideas. I sort of got to this point because of the crazy product cycles. I would be researching, and then something new would be coming out. Then I would wait for reviews and same thing. Eventually I realized I could get a 2 year old driver for near $100. Same with irons. I went in to golfsmith after a ton of research to get some Mizuno irons. They were going to set me back about $900. I was on eBay a few days later and saw some Wilson staff m3 irons for $200 brand new. I really wanted black irons so i just went ahead and got them.

 

If clubs were priced competitively, I would get new items yearly. Same with those friends of mine who play regularly.

 

My friends who play once a month or less couldnt care less about what clubs they play. But if prices were low enough I bet they would buy the odd club here and there, or even a decent set.

 

I actually like the rules, those who don't care can simply ignore them. My friends will do that if they aren't golfers. No problem. But I don't like the idea that a decent golfer can just slam a ball OB, take a drop, chip on and 2 putt for bogey every hole (I don't care if we're just having a good time, but don't claim to have beaten me not playing the rules). The muni by me has only red stakes and it doesn't really help the pace of play. Too many golfers who can't get the ball off the ground.

 

The reality is, golf is just leveling back out. It wasn't sustainable really. The average course near me is about 80$ to play on a Saturday. The munis are about 60$. What new player wants to sign up for that twice a week. I am hoping this means courses are more open and reasonably priced, and equipment costs go down

 

 

I need to work on shortening my posts

I like this post. It is true that lowering prices and lowering green fees and speeding up play and all of that may not move the needle. In fact it may push away more folks than it gains as many folks don't like change. The leveling out will probably have the opposite effect. As courses close down, the ones that remain will charge even more. As equipment sales go down, the prices will go up to pad the profits. I don't see how golf remains accessible if it is not being used by the masses. It just moves farther and farther away from accessible and into a world of elitism. And really, that's where many want it. There are votes cast regularly at Country Clubs to go semi-private, public, or stay private with increased dues and assessments. The increased dues and assessments win out as much as any other option...

 

You guys are re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic. The issue isn't current people who play or are interested in golf. The issue is getting new players in similar numbers to Tiger-era. Nothing else will move the needle in an industry worth several billion dollars.

Yes, re-arranging the deck chairs on the titanic. LOL. But true. If a course needs so much $$$ to operate, how is lowering rates going to bring in more money? Especially when the busy times are already full and the empty times have always been empty. Then add the closing of neighboring courses and lower prices? Nope. The misses reality of the Tiger era is this. There were not more golfers. There were golfers golfing 10 times per month. Then recession, and 10 times per month became 4 times per month. Now those golfers are old and still only golfing 4 times per month at discounted rates. No new golfers were ever really in the tunnel, it was all the hype of good times...

 

If those statistics are true, you'd have a point. Where did you get them?

You probably wont find those statics too easily. Because the PGA of America was pushing growth of the new golfer so hard in the 90s and wouldn't admit they had it wrong. You'd have to go to tee-sheets of the times and mirror the economic trends of the time. I saw it first hand in the courses that were booming. We had the regulars who were truly regulars. They played Sat, Sun, and Wed with the good economy. Tiger came along at the same time and boom, the media joined in, but the new players into the game? Overblown. Then as the downturn happened the regulars showed up less. The growth was there in small doses, time were good, but not in the doses that the PGA of America would have you believe, not enough to build the all the new courses.

[tannyhoban]

Economics dictate prices folks, so that isn't gonna change. And since when does the PGA on tour drive participation?

 

Weren't most golf fanatics playing instead of watching during the peak years??

 

Huh? Why are watching and playing exclusive?

 

Tiger exploded the game while being on the PGA Tour, because people (non-golfers) watched him. Then they tried golf. The exact same reason you saw non-basketball players wear Air Jordans. The same exact thing happened with Arnold Palmer. There have been several over the years, but none since Tiger.

 

Of course the Tour drives participation. Its the face of golf for four hours on a broadcast network twice a weekend.

 

I can't tell if this is a serious post of not.

 

You give Tiger waaayy too much credit. Courses were being built at record clip in the early 90's. You telling me this was in anticipation off TW???

 

Please.