What would rejuvenate the golf equipment industry?

[Ferguson]

Bottom line, lower prices.

 

Especially on drivers/putters as more people change these out than irons, generally.

 

$500 for any driver is ridiculous imo, since a stock offering probably costs the company under $75 to make it.....

 

The stockholders have become more important than the customer. Not to say the technology is bad,it's just not cost effective for the average joe which affects sales numbers.....

 

 

You can't drive down prices with without driving down quality. Then the operative question becomes, "what defines quality?"

In today's market, "quality" is apparently defined by fake reviews on websites.

[Sun Devil]

Unfortunately ....golf is going the way of tennis. No where. Golf is a niche sport for niche people. In the past ... the niche were wealthy white men who belonged to CCs and were affluent enough to spend money on the newest clubs, golf lessons, and the nicest courses. In this day and age .... seems like "excessive, expensive hobbies such as golf, fast opulent cars,mansions, boats etc. etc is frowned upon in this new economy and with millennials.

 

Equipment is not the problem. The "traditional" gentleman's game of golf and it's prehistoric rules is the problem. $150/hr golf lessons are the problem.

 

Also .... having different equipment for ams and pros won't help.

 

Of course my perspective is coming from being an early Baby Boomer. Millennials are the ones who should be defining what golf should be.

[jpdx]

Unfortunately ....golf is going the way of tennis. No where. Golf is a niche sport for niche people. In the past ... the niche were wealthy white men who belonged to CCs and were affluent enough to spend money on the newest clubs, golf lessons, and the nicest courses. In this day and age .... seems like "excessive, expensive hobbies such as golf, fast opulent cars,mansions, boats etc. etc is frowned upon in this new economy and with millennials.

 

Equipment is not the problem. The "traditional" gentleman's game of golf and it's prehistoric rules is the problem. $150/hr golf lessons are the problem.

 

Also .... having different equipment for ams and pros won't help.

 

Of course my perspective is coming from being an early Baby Boomer. Millennials are the ones who should be defining what golf should be.

 

First bold: Still a niche sport. Still targeted to the same market. I don't think much has changed as far as that goes. Get more minorities and younger people into golf. Golf is one of the few sports that isn't taught in elementary - high schools. Sure there are high school teams and college teams, but where are these kids learning the game? Most likely not at their school. If school systems taught the game, even just briefly I think it would help. Golf's health benefits are so small though compared to playing basketball, soccer, football or even baseball. If for no other reason other than you have to RUN in those sports. I don't think that Golf will ever be included in the physical ed curriculum.

 

I firmly believe that here in the US, it is still a white man's game. I don't know of the statistics but I'd be willing to bet that the race of players playing golf doesn't match the US breakdown of race.

 

Second bold: I haven't been playing long enough to even pretend to know the rules. My buddies and I just....wing it. Sure we know the basics - hit the ball as it lies. 1 hit, 1 stroke. We play mulligans, we don't penalize each other for grounding the club in the bunker. We drop where ever is convenient whether it's a red/yellow/white stake (I'm not 100% sure the differences and have to look it up each time). Yes the game needs to simplified for ams and lessons need to be less expensive.

[niscur24]

PRICE!!!

 

If you can make money selling equipment at close out prices 1 year after release then sell at those prices to begin with and you won't have inventory on hand 12 months after release.

 

What motivation do I have to buy at exorbitant prices the latest and greatest when let's be honest for Joe blow golfer it won't make a bit of difference if he just bought last years model at full MSRP. Now you hit a price point that allows me to upgrade or HO OUT year after year and I'll do it. Otherwise I'll always be a year or two behind, keep my funds, and still upgrade/test throughout the the year because I can. I get more joy buying 1-2 cycles older still new in plastic for pennies vs a single current cycle item at retail.

 

 

 

[596]

This is a vicious circle. OEM's are there to do one thing and one thing only. Make Money!! The shareholders demand year over year increases on their investment. There's a basic problem with that. You can't forever increase returns and profits. There will come a time in your business that you will be at the limit of profits. Golf saw this over the past few years. They have reached the profit ceiling, business decreased and businesses are closing. This includes equipment manufacturers, golf courses, golf web sites, and on and on.

 

Rejuvenate it? It does not need to be rejuvenated. It has begun to self level. It's a business cycle. Over many many years, you'll see people come back as the economy returns to stronger. Golf companies will begin making more money, investors will return and then all of a sudden you'll have another reset. Businesses are cyclic. The problem is bigger then "golf"....economy comes to mind. Golf can not return or rejuvenate all by itself. Time will allow it to rejuvenate on it's own.

 

Nothing an equipment manufacturer, or a golf course can do to increase to the days of old where everyone had extra money to spend on hobbies. Just wait......over years it will happen again.

[Lacey Underall]

Helping the golf equipment industry has two parts. FIRST, you need more golfers. That's where speed-price of the game come into play (as many others have stated). Pace of play is a major issue and I think the golf COURSES need to do more to help. If you want pace to improve at your home course it needs to start with Management and flow all the way down to your Rangers. You must be willing to piss some people off. As for price, I think the demand is already starting to help with that. Prices are down all over Atlanta where I live.

 

SECOND, you need to ease off the performance restrictions on OEMs. Increase the cc limit, COR limit, golf ball speed limit.......but do it gradually. I was against this idea for a long time but now I think its just inevitable. Let's face it, performance has been nearly maxed out in every area. We now have hybrids that meet the COR limit for crying out loud! Right now you could play a 5 year old driver and be just fine performance wise. But if the limits were increased, then all of your buddies are really going to be flying it by you.

[Z1ggy16]

1) The more custom options on a driver say, like an M2, the more they would cost to produce. They don't give options because it would cost them more money to produce/procure the needed tools & product to profit from it. Scotty can do it because it's kind of a niche product that's already expensive as hell to begin with. Margins are probably much higher on a Scotty putter than a run of the mill M2 driver.

 

2) It's statistically shown that the closer you can get to the pin, on average your scores go down. Therefore, making clubs that continuously get longer is 100% better for golfers as a whole. Sure, PGA tour guys don't need a longer 7i, but 99% of the amateur golfing community could benefit from it.

 

3) You can already do this. Many courses by me have pro shops in which you can take any club you want and go demo it for a round, take it on the range, etc. Usually though this involves the purchase of said club after you go demo, so I think they charge you a fee to do this. Also, Golfsmith lets you buy brand new clubs and return them within 30 days for *I think* full store credit.

 

What would really rejuvenate golf is for it become less expensive for the average joe to play. That means cheaper greens fees, less expensive clubs and less expensive ways to practice. Golf as a whole struggles, especially in America, because there are just simply too many other competing sports that are much less expensive, and take less time to play. This Sunday I played 18 - It cost $54 with cart and took me 5.5 hours from the time I got there to warm up, until the time I dropped my cart off and left. Not many folks now a days have that kind of time to spend on a new sport unless they are already particularly skilled.

 

If you told me, "Hey there's this fun sport you should try with me, but you'll probably have to invest at least $400 for some used clubs that might not even be right for you, about $50 every time you play, it takes at least 4-5 hours to play one game... Oh and you'll probably need lessons once in a while which cost anywhere from $75-120 an hour. Plus, in order to even get half way decent, it might take you like 5-10 years. Sound good?"

[DoglegRight]

I've suggested this a few times over the years and still hope to see a time where a universal adapter is adopted industry wide for woods and drivers. I would pick the current Titleist or Callaway adapter for their ability to adjust loft and lie independently.

[SCOTT4099]

Bottom line, lower prices.

 

Especially on drivers/putters as more people change these out than irons, generally.

 

$500 for any driver is ridiculous imo, since a stock offering probably costs the company under $75 to make it.....

 

The stockholders have become more important than the customer. Not to say the technology is bad,it's just not cost effective for the average joe which affects sales numbers.....

 

 

You can't drive down prices with without driving down quality. Then the operative question becomes, "what defines quality?"

In today's market, "quality" is apparently defined by fake reviews on websites.

 

Your point is well taken, however if a driver is discounted $100 six or eight months after it is released I'd bet the quality remains as does still making a profit, just less of one....most cost is in R&D and advertising as almost all clubs are now made overseas. That is what bothers me about $500 drivers....

[Z1ggy16]

What's funny though is at least around me... all the courses are 100% packed all weekend. From dawn til dusk. If golf clubs got cheaper and more people started playing, it actually might make golf more expensive to play because fees go from $50 a round to $80+. If you play 6-8 times per month, golf ends up costing you more in the long run than the savings you get from cheaper clubs.

 

Although in turn, if people see the market demand for golf going up, new courses should/would be built, and then prices would go down because supply will increase.

[BearQ]

Less frequent releases patterns from OEM's

 

Less badging

 

Stop with the weird colour schemes to stand out

 

Include weight kits with drivers/fairways that have that tech

 

Better stock headcovers

 

Include full loft range in 1 degree increments for CUSTOM ORDER wedges, keeping bounce consistent (bending wedges isn't ideal)

* I know hogan does this, I want everyone to do it

 

Thats a good list to start the rise

[BearQ]

I've suggested this a few times over the years and still hope to see a time where a universal adapter is adopted industry wide for woods and drivers. I would pick the current Titleist or Callaway adapter for their ability to adjust loft and lie independently.

 

Awesome idea. Swapping shafts would become a dream scenario...It's been a pain with all these different adapters.

[Z1ggy16]

I've suggested this a few times over the years and still hope to see a time where a universal adapter is adopted industry wide for woods and drivers. I would pick the current Titleist or Callaway adapter for their ability to adjust loft and lie independently.

 

Awesome idea. Swapping shafts would become a dream scenario...It's been a pain with all these different adapters.

What's funny is I'm surprised shaft makers haven't tried to pressure the OEM's into doing this. Half the reason I can't/don't buy a certain shaft on Ebay is because I'd have to switch adapters.

[regiwstruk]

DRIVER VS DRIVER IS CHANGING THE GAME

[Tcann32]

I've suggested this a few times over the years and still hope to see a time where a universal adapter is adopted industry wide for woods and drivers. I would pick the current Titleist or Callaway adapter for their ability to adjust loft and lie independently.

 

Awesome idea. Swapping shafts would become a dream scenario...It's been a pain with all these different adapters.

 

This does exist.

[Lacey Underall]

What's funny though is at least around me... all the courses are 100% packed all weekend. From dawn til dusk. If golf clubs got cheaper and more people started playing, it actually might make golf more expensive to play because fees go from $50 a round to $80+. If you play 6-8 times per month, golf ends up costing you more in the long run than the savings you get from cheaper clubs.

 

Although in turn, if people see the market demand for golf going up, new courses should/would be built, and then prices would go down because supply will increase.

All depends on where you live. I took a trip to Denver recently and public golf is thriving there. Back home in central Illinois you can shoot a gun off at the golf course and no one would notice. On average, golf rounds are down nationally big time.

[TollBros]

Did not read the whole thread, and someone may have said this. One thing and one thing only will boom the equipment industry. The USGA needs to take the restrictions off driver/club COR, driver size, design elements, ball speed restrictions, etc for amatures. The industry would explode with innovation.

[Z1ggy16]

What's funny though is at least around me... all the courses are 100% packed all weekend. From dawn til dusk. If golf clubs got cheaper and more people started playing, it actually might make golf more expensive to play because fees go from $50 a round to $80+. If you play 6-8 times per month, golf ends up costing you more in the long run than the savings you get from cheaper clubs.

 

Although in turn, if people see the market demand for golf going up, new courses should/would be built, and then prices would go down because supply will increase.

All depends on where you live. I took a trip to Denver recently and public golf is thriving there. Back home in central Illinois you can shoot a gun off at the golf course and no one would notice. On average, golf rounds are down nationally big time.

I think NJ (where I live) could be one of the busiest places in the northeast for golf. Seriously, there's a course ever 10-15 miles, unless you are in the most northwest part, but nobody lives there anyway. In eastern and central jersey, there are some real serious clubs (think.. Batrusol, Trump National) and many very nice public or semi privates. There wasn't a weekend all summer and fall where I wasn't in a 4 some, and without people directly in front or behind me. There could be a few empty slots in there, but from about 11am-close, the course is fully packed.

 

Might be in higher income states/regoins, golf is more popular simply due to people having more income. Even if it's not managed properly.

[solarbear88]

Grow the game. Affordable lessons, quality instruction, well fiting clubs.

 

Why waste time and money to hit over 100 and be frustrated? This is where most people are stuck at.

 

The industry sems based on a model of 'you will suck unless you pay money.' It is not working anymore.

 

Let's be honest golf is a hard game and it is difficult to get good at. All the courses, manufacturers and pros force you to pay to improve.

 

It's a catch 22 because unless it is fun it won't grow. Unless it is growing it won't make money. Until people can learn to play well and it not cost a fortune, people will spend their money elsewhere.

Why waste time and money to hit over 100 and be frustrated? This is where most people are stuck at.

[jslane57]

2) It's statistically shown that the closer you can get to the pin, on average your scores go down. Therefore, making clubs that continuously get longer is 100% better for golfers as a whole. Sure, PGA tour guys don't need a longer 7i, but 99% of the amateur golfing community could benefit from it.

I just don't buy this. How is a club that is 32 degrees and 36.75 inches long and labeled as a 7 iron really that much different than a club that is 32 degrees and 36.75 inches that is labeled as a 6 iron? They're the same. If one's doing better with the 7-iron, it is purely a placebo.

 

If you told me, "Hey there's this fun sport you should try with me, but you'll probably have to invest at least $400 for some used clubs that might not even be right for you, about $50 every time you play, it takes at least 4-5 hours to play one game... Oh and you'll probably need lessons once in a while which cost anywhere from $75-120 an hour. Plus, in order to even get half way decent, it might take you like 5-10 years. Sound good?

Now this the truth. It is amazing that golf has lasted as long as it has. Golf addiction is a strong thing!

[jpdx]

 

If you told me, "Hey there's this fun sport you should try with me, but you'll probably have to invest at least $400 for some used clubs that might not even be right for you, about $50 every time you play, it takes at least 4-5 hours to play one game... Oh and you'll probably need lessons once in a while which cost anywhere from $75-120 an hour. Plus, in order to even get half way decent, it might take you like 5-10 years. Sound good?

Now this the truth. It is amazing that golf has lasted as long as it has. Golf addiction is a strong thing!

 

had I known about these costs (and time investment), I probably wouldn't have started. that being said, I stick with it because I enjoy a challenge. I've never had a sport that I sucked so bad at, and continue to suck at for so long.

[m5power]

No offense but the OP brought up all the things HE would want changed in the golf equip industry. Those things, while popular in WRX, is not going to move the needle in the golf equipment business as a whole. The golf equip business, just like any other business, grew too big when business was good. Golf business is contracting at the moment and may never come back to what it once was. The equipment business as a whole needs to contract if it wants to stabilize itself.

 

The broader question would be how to grow the game of golf with the younger generation. Golf is dying. Tiger, while still moving the needle is not a relevant player anymore and may never be. So yeah, all those things.....

[WidespreadPanic]

Call me stupid but I just thought of this. With all the OEMs trying to reinvent the wheel over and over again despite being restricted to the maximum size and COR limits how about the OEMs making "retro" clubs? Callaway started by making hickory shafted clubs as a niche. Now I don't want them to make really old school Tom Morris era clubs but maybe some old school blades (at old school lengths and lofts) and persimmon woods. I know they won't sell a lot of them but would squeeze out a bit of extra money from those who are fond of clubs from that era. Also, old school balls should be rereleased too...I miss the Titleist Professional and Tour Prestige and the original Maxfli Revolution.

WRX's resident Persimmon player. This would in no way at all help the golf equipment industry. Me as a 29 year old however would love to have a Persimmon driver to mess around with. But I'm also a wrx'er.

[tannyhoban]

800cc drivers with .980 COR.

[m5power]

Call me stupid but I just thought of this. With all the OEMs trying to reinvent the wheel over and over again despite being restricted to the maximum size and COR limits how about the OEMs making "retro" clubs? Callaway started by making hickory shafted clubs as a niche. Now I don't want them to make really old school Tom Morris era clubs but maybe some old school blades (at old school lengths and lofts) and persimmon woods. I know they won't sell a lot of them but would squeeze out a bit of extra money from those who are fond of clubs from that era. Also, old school balls should be rereleased too...I miss the Titleist Professional and Tour Prestige and the original Maxfli Revolution.

 

Terrible idea, unless these manufacturers do this for the WRX as a favor. Money losing favor for our benefit

[MtlJeff]

Unfortunately ....golf is going the way of tennis. No where. Golf is a niche sport for niche people. In the past ... the niche were wealthy white men who belonged to CCs and were affluent enough to spend money on the newest clubs, golf lessons, and the nicest courses. In this day and age .... seems like "excessive, expensive hobbies such as golf, fast opulent cars,mansions, boats etc. etc is frowned upon in this new economy and with millennials.

 

Equipment is not the problem. The "traditional" gentleman's game of golf and it's prehistoric rules is the problem. $150/hr golf lessons are the problem.

 

Also .... having different equipment for ams and pros won't help.

 

Of course my perspective is coming from being an early Baby Boomer. Millennials are the ones who should be defining what golf should be.

 

I don't think millennials (an extremely broad term, we're talking about millions of people) frown upon these things as much they just don't feel that they can afford them. There's plenty of wealthy millennials who love doing traditional rich guys things, Sean Parker throwing a themed wedding on protected land, pretty much everything that Shkreli guy does. There's still plenty of wealthy young people who want you to know how wealthy they are.

 

I think it was Forbes who recently released a question on twitter asking "How come millenials don't buy diamonds anymore?"....the answer, as you can imagine, was a pretty resounding "Because we can't afford them you idiots"

 

Millenials don't have it easy, it's harder to break into a good company, there's very little job security, and mostly senior executives look at them all like they "don't want it/don't commit enough" while meanwhile they are trying to figure out ways to cut their jobs. And they wonder why millenialls are hesitant to commit and always have CVs ready

 

Someone under 35 and making less than say, 100K a year. I would not recommend golf to that person if they were going to take up a hobby. Unless they were a diehard single man who never wanted a family

 

The equipment industry won't rebound until the amount of people that fit golf's demographic are expanding and not contracting.....well that, or convince millionaires they need 45 drivers

[Pinger89]

Tiger Woods.

[Petunia Sprinkle]

Setting the club limit at 21, instead of 14, could get hilarious.

[larciel]

I'm a millennial and I wouldn't have played golf if I wasn't doing my business. all my buddies do not have time/money to play or learn golf. Golf has so much higher entrace-barrier than any other sports. Plus it takes minimum 4.5hrs to finish a round (usually 5+hr at local muni) , count the time getting to the course and usual 19th hole break, you're spending 8-9hrs per day. Golf is a sport that needs more dedication than any other sports.

 

I love how I can go to nice course on a Wed 11am and enjoy fabulous view and service for a cheap price. experience on a Saturday morning is not comparable.

 

It will be a niche sports like Tennis. Tennis is much better because you only need a very small space(money) to play. Golf, you need multi-million land/investment.. I think price will go even higher and cheaper clubs will get cheaper. Just like economic balance in capitalism, richer will demand higher better one.

[solarbear88]

 

had I known about these costs (and time investment), I probably wouldn't have started. that being said, I stick with it because I enjoy a challenge. I've never had a sport that I sucked so bad at, and continue to suck at for so long.

 

 

Was thinking the exact same thing.