Why do so few tour players play 4 wedges?

[hurley9192]

a couple of thoughts...

 

1. I play 690CB's and had the lofts stepped up to the 695 lofts...so my PW is 46 degrees. While it still is labled a PW, it's really a 9 iron. I then had the rest spaced 4 degrees, so my 5 iron is 26 degrees, which is essentially a 4 iron and my 4 is 22 degrees, which is essentially my 3 iron. Took out the 3 iron and got a 2 hybrid to make up for the difference. From 200-220, a 4 handicap isn't that accurate to be able to choose between a 3 iron or 2 hybrid, so I took out the 3 iron and went with the higher percentage club.

 

2. with the removal of one club, I was able to then match my wedges at 50 degrees (which is my 115 club), 54 degrees (which is exactly 100 yards) and then my 60 degree lob wedge, which I use in the bunker and all over the course.

But on the other hand, you could've weakened all your clubs so that your PW was 50, your 9 iron was 46 etc etc.

 

Why did you choose to strengthen your lofts instead of weaken them?

 

No particular reason...just liked that setup a little better. I guess I could say that I'd rather hit a true special wedge instead of a stock wedge for my 50 degree club. This gives me a little more of a custom set in the short irons.

[villa]

a couple of thoughts...

 

1. I play 690CB's and had the lofts stepped up to the 695 lofts...so my PW is 46 degrees. While it still is labled a PW, it's really a 9 iron. I then had the rest spaced 4 degrees, so my 5 iron is 26 degrees, which is essentially a 4 iron and my 4 is 22 degrees, which is essentially my 3 iron. Took out the 3 iron and got a 2 hybrid to make up for the difference. From 200-220, a 4 handicap isn't that accurate to be able to choose between a 3 iron or 2 hybrid, so I took out the 3 iron and went with the higher percentage club.

 

2. with the removal of one club, I was able to then match my wedges at 50 degrees (which is my 115 club), 54 degrees (which is exactly 100 yards) and then my 60 degree lob wedge, which I use in the bunker and all over the course.

But on the other hand, you could've weakened all your clubs so that your PW was 50, your 9 iron was 46 etc etc.

 

Why did you choose to strengthen your lofts instead of weaken them?

 

No particular reason...just liked that setup a little better. I guess I could say that I'd rather hit a true special wedge instead of a stock wedge for my 50 degree club. This gives me a little more of a custom set in the short irons.

Fair enough mate, i'm just intrigued with some people's setups.

[sbrylant]

i use a pw (47*), 54* sand/gap wedge, and a 60* lob wedge...& this combo works great for me.

[Canuck]

I am a HUGE believer of Pelz's system. Since going to his clock system, dialing in distances for the 4 wedges and working really hard at it, my handicap has come down significantly. Was an 8 in 2003, down to a 5 two years ago, 3 last year and now a 2. (And I never thought I'd ever be below a 7 or so)

 

Getting up and down is huge in scoring. My putting stats are virtually the same as in 2003. But now give me a 20 yard shot, 30, 40, 50 ...all the way to 120 yards, no problem. I know most times I'll have a good look at the hole for bird or save par.

 

I agree with the posters who say the pros have their 3 wedges dialed in. I can see that, as they practice multiple times the amount any of us could ever dream of (or want to).

 

I still have 2 hybrids in the bag, and a 3 wood. Just tweaked the 5 and 6 irons 2 degrees stronger as this then let me drop my 4 iron.

 

Trust me, go 4 wedges, learn the clock system and start watching your handicap go down.

[kenfuji]

I have 4 wedges but I rarely ever use the 60*

[sidewinder]

Most regular folks I see with 60° (or more) lob wedges hit them so inconsistently that they hurt their score more often than they help it. That is the main point I hear from teaching pros about the four wedge system. That most people don't hit the lob wedge well even the majority of the time.

 

Since I don't have as much time practice as I would like, I find that learning to hit my 52° and 58° wedges to be about all I have time for...and the time I give them is not enough.

 

Do whatever works best for you. Experimentation is a good thing. But I know that three wedges is best for me and my game.

 

Scott

[DemolitionMan]

It's kind of fun to watch the 4 wedge and distance chart guys crumble on a really windy day. If you can't effectively use your irons from all kinds of distances and trajectories, how do you play on windy days? You can't simply dial up an extra 20 yards by going from LW to GW if the wind is in your face, the ball will be all over the place.

 

I am also trying to figure out how to reason that you get an 'extra' long club by going to 3 wedges. The reality is, when you add a 4th wedge, you have to figure out gaps starting from 3W down to 4 iron because you are going to lose one of those clubs. I experimented for a while with just a 4W because I thought carrying a 3W and 5W was overkill given I rarely used the 3W. Then I started missing the 5W. I ended up going back to a three wedges. I tried giving up the 3 iron but I missed having that when I wanted a low piercing shot that went farther than a 4 iron and maybe even approached 5W distances.

 

I just don't need the hassle of 4 wedges. I rarely find myself at distances of 70-90 yards, so no 56 or gap is really needed. I can stretch the 58* LW to 70 on a calm day, and I carry a 54* for the longer wedge distances and that can stretch to 100 on a calm day. But from tight lies on most days, I reach for the PW on 100 yard shots, it's easier. I will eventually change my 54* to a 52* as I would rather have the 6* gap between the GW and LW than the PW and GW/SW.

 

As stated above, pros don't need 4 wedges, they know how to hit 100 yards with accuracy using the PW, or 9i or 8i or 7i or .....

[arkstorm]

Four wedges take a lot of practice and consistency to learn to maximize. Most golfers don't practice their short game enough as it is. If you are limited in the amount of time you can devote to practice you will most likely realize a greater benefit by getting really good with a three wedge system.

[Golfcat]

I am a 4 wedge guy (Ping i5 P, U, iWedge 54 and 58)

 

Or am I????

 

P = 46* which could be considered a light 9 iron....U=50*, Light PW...you get my point.

 

I need them all:

 

P = 135 yds

U = 125 yds

54 = 115 yds (also my low running pitching club)

58 = 100 yds (my high loft pitching club)

 

I carry a 4 wood (245 yds) and a 21* hybrid (220 yds) no room up top

 

Find what works for YOU

Patrick

[gentles]

wow, alot of insightful replies here guys. Interesting to see some of the opinions. It seems that If a player is skilled enough to make it as a pga pro, then they are skilled enough to make do with only 3 wedges, allowing for the gap at the top of the bag.

 

Villa, or anyone else for that matter, what are the playing differences between the mp-t and mp-r? If i do got to a Mp-r 54*, how different will it be from the mp-t lob wedge?

[ben III]

Totally agree with Canuck.

 

I'm experimenting now by using four wedges (for me especially usefull with chipping and full shots because of better distance control, setting wedges open etc. makes distance control more difficult). Dropped the 4 iron (inspired by Jim Furyk) because I use a 3 iron more often on short par 4's or just to be on the save side with my second shot. Bend my 5 iron a little stronger.

 

I think the pro's play more hybrids because it is more important and easier for them to control these clubs and get all the par 5's in two. No wedge needed...

 

And if one is needed they have better distance control.

 

If they lay up, they can leave exactly the distance they like to hit with a wedge.

 

Must be wonderfull!

[Canuck]

Totally agree with Canuck.

THANKS! :russian_roulette:

[SadTrombone]

It's kind of fun to watch the 4 wedge and distance chart guys crumble on a really windy day. If you can't effectively use your irons from all kinds of distances and trajectories, how do you play on windy days? You can't simply dial up an extra 20 yards by going from LW to GW if the wind is in your face, the ball will be all over the place.

I use the Pelz system with 3 wedges (P, S, L) and don't seem to have any problem on windy days. Just like a full shot if I need an extra club, I hit an extra club...if I need one less, I hit one less.

 

-mini

[Canuck]

It's kind of fun to watch the 4 wedge and distance chart guys crumble on a really windy day. If you can't effectively use your irons from all kinds of distances and trajectories, how do you play on windy days? You can't simply dial up an extra 20 yards by going from LW to GW if the wind is in your face, the ball will be all over the place.

I use the Pelz system with 3 wedges (P, S, L) and don't seem to have any problem on windy days. Just like a full shot if I need an extra club, I hit an extra club...if I need one less, I hit one less.

 

-mini

I agree with Mini. I play at one of the windiest courses in our area (Ballantrae, wide open and highest point for miles) and the wedge shots can easily be adjusted for extra length or higher or lower if need be.

[nevermind92]

I used to play four wedges 47, 51, 55, 60. It became tough to gauge my wedges since I don't get to practice alot every week. I have since went to a 47, 53, 58 set up and couldn't be happier. It has taken a lot of tought out of my wedge play and my scores have shown it. Some people play great with four wedges, it just doesn't work for me

[bleu_cobra]

I use my PW from outside 75 yards. I use my GW from about 40-75. I have two Vokeys, a 56-10 and a 60-4 to use around the greens. With those it's all about the lie, not distance. I could do without the GW pretty easily; when I get better I'll probably swap it for a 2 hybrid or maaaybe a 3W, but for now I think the short game flexibility is better for me.

[pitch]

I played 4 wedges for years. I now play a 46* PW and 54* & 58*. This happened as I got older and started hitting the ball shorter distances. I needed more help with the long clubs. But it's the best move I've made. When I was playing 4 wedges I hardly ever hit the 56*.

[oregongolf]

I would have to think about which wedge to use a lot more. I can pitch and run as well as hit super high flop shots with the 58º wedge. It does everything I would expect 56º and 60º wedges to do.

 

that's the exact reason I think I might switch my wedge setup from a 52*/56* combo

[DemolitionMan]

It's kind of fun to watch the 4 wedge and distance chart guys crumble on a really windy day. If you can't effectively use your irons from all kinds of distances and trajectories, how do you play on windy days? You can't simply dial up an extra 20 yards by going from LW to GW if the wind is in your face, the ball will be all over the place.

I use the Pelz system with 3 wedges (P, S, L) and don't seem to have any problem on windy days. Just like a full shot if I need an extra club, I hit an extra club...if I need one less, I hit one less.

 

-mini

I agree with Mini. I play at one of the windiest courses in our area (Ballantrae, wide open and highest point for miles) and the wedge shots can easily be adjusted for extra length or higher or lower if need be.

 

Great, but you guys may be the exceptions rather than the rule. Watch the British Open and see how many high wedge shots are hit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking anyone for going with 4 wedges. Whatever gives you confidence and works is the answer and nothing else matters.

 

Personally I think the Pelz system is a great crutch that helps simplify the game and take the guesswork out of 100 yards in. But it also takes away a lot of the creativity side of the game and can be tough when certain course conditions don't allow for a simple grid. Me, I like to be more creative and try different shots when I am 80-110 yards out depending on the hole layout, pin placement, and surrounding trouble. It doesn't always work out but it's more rewarding when it does.

[bangman1977]

I agree with chrisu using the 4 wedge system due to conditions requiring different bounces. Also, I get myself in trouble when I really try to hit a wedge maximum distance or a little beyond. 4 wedges allows me to hit all of them with more control and thus improving my accuracy. A pro friend of mine once told me that with 4 wedges there is no need to hit any of them extremely hard.

[golfer_junior]

I know someone who played with Dave Pelz at Bandon Dunes and they thought he had the worst short game of anyone they had ever seen until they were told who he was. He said that Dave Pelz didn't get up and down once, and quite a few of his chips never even touched the green. Its kind of makes you realize how bogus some of his ideas are.

[sleepy_augusto]

I know someone who played with Dave Pelz at Bandon Dunes and they thought he had the worst short game of anyone they had ever seen until they were told who he was. He said that Dave Pelz didn't get up and down once, and quite a few of his chips never even touched the green. Its kind of makes you realize how bogus some of his ideas are.

 

those who can't play, teach.

[Viking Golfer]

I play 4 wedges...and I'm never confused, because I practise a lot with my pitch, chip and flop shots.

 

I have a large grap from my 5 iron to my 2/3 hybrid. I find it easier to grip down on my 2/3 hybrid to make it play like a 4 iron than I find it to play my GW as a SW, or my SW as a LW. The pro's are pro's because of their excellent short game and very very few of us in here can compare us and our game to the pro's in my view. So asking why the pro's play with 3 wedges needs an honest answer: Because they have a short game that is far far far better than your short game is. And because they often prefer to flop their shot from 30 yards in and have special grinds on their wedges, which makes them plat like a combo of two wedges with two different bounces.

 

I also like grinds - and you can still play with grinds on your wedges and make great use of them, but I know what club I'll use in the bunker - a SW with high bounce and not my LW with small bounce.

I also know that I don't like chipping with my high bounce SW, and therefore I preferably chip from 30 yards in with my GW and LW and make the bump & run kind of chips with my hybrid and 5-6-7-8-9 iron. My SW is mainly for use in the bunker because of the high bounce.

[Sean2]

I use four wedges: 45º, 50º, 54º, and 58º. I use every one. My practice consists of 80% short-game. I set the practice flags at 10 yard intervals up to 100 yards and practice each wedge with .25, .50, .75 swing. I also practice from a variety of lies: tight, deep rough, light rough, sand, etc., so when I have that shot on the golf course I know exactly how to hit the shot and as a result my distance control if fairly good. I still have a long way to go, but like having a four wedge set-up in my bag.

[jscw]

BINGO, BINGO, BINGO, the pros can work their wedges which negates having to carry four. I started this year with 4 wedges, 47 pw, 52, 56, 60 and found that I rarely used the 56. When I did, I could easily have used the 52 or 60 but just wanted to use the 56.

 

My scores/short game didn't improve noticeably over a 3 wedge setup. I removed the 56 and now play 47, 52, 60. This wedge setup seems to work for me even though there are some gaps.

 

It comes down to what you are comfortable with. For me, it took to much thought on which wedge to play due to terrain and wind conditions.

Another vote for 52 and 60. My PW is 46, and 56 still in the living room now (to play some bubble balls w/ cats.)

[sidewinder]

Claus,

 

Pro's use three wedges because they don't need 4 wedges to hit the shots they need to hit. Pro's and teaching Pro's recommend against high loft lob wedges because they see so many amateurs screw up with them more often than not.

 

I use three wedges because my 58° wedge does anything I could do with a 56° or 60° wedge. I can't see why I would waste the spot in the bag. Most bunkers where I play are firm and I don't need a whole lot of bounce. But I can get all the bounce I could ever need by opening up my 58° wedge. So I don't have a "bunker only" wedge in my bag. Why would I? Most days I would never use the thing.

 

Scott

[Canuck]

I know someone who played with Dave Pelz at Bandon Dunes and they thought he had the worst short game of anyone they had ever seen until they were told who he was. He said that Dave Pelz didn't get up and down once, and quite a few of his chips never even touched the green. Its kind of makes you realize how bogus some of his ideas are.

 

Find that hard to believe. Not that he's just the "short game guru" but because he was also a really good amateur player. Think he went to a big golf college and tried to go tour but it wasn't in the cards. He can't be a 20+ handicap.

[Viking Golfer]

Claus,

 

Pro's use three wedges because they don't need 4 wedges to hit the shots they need to hit. Pro's and teaching Pro's recommend against high loft lob wedges because they see so many amateurs screw up with them more often than not.

I use three wedges because my 58° wedge does anything I could do with a 56° or 60° wedge. I can't see why I would waste the spot in the bag. Most bunkers where I play are firm and I don't need a whole lot of bounce. But I can get all the bounce I could ever need by opening up my 58° wedge. So I don't have a "bunker only" wedge in my bag. Why would I? Most days I would never use the thing.

 

Scott

 

Maybe so, but I would not go to the course without my 60 in the bag.

 

But I never hit my 60 from the sand unless the sand is very hard or it has rained a lot, so the sand is wet and compressed. I use my 60 for flop shots, small chip shots - shots for which the big bounce of my SW would be less than ideal. So I can't say enough good things about a 4 wedge setup for MY game.

 

 

I also have a wedge setup for summer and dry conditions (my Scratch wedges will arrive within 2-3 weeks) and another wedge setup for the winter and wet conditions (my trio of Vokey's).

[Viking Golfer]

I know someone who played with Dave Pelz at Bandon Dunes and they thought he had the worst short game of anyone they had ever seen until they were told who he was. He said that Dave Pelz didn't get up and down once, and quite a few of his chips never even touched the green. Its kind of makes you realize how bogus some of his ideas are.

 

Find that hard to believe. Not that he's just the "short game guru" but because he was also a really good amateur player. Think he went to a big golf college and tried to go tour but it wasn't in the cards. He can't be a 20+ handicap.

 

I'm not a fan of Peltz-far from. But the man can play, he was at mini tours before he decided he didn't have the nerve for the pro game. He's a plus handicap player and they don't have awful short games like described above.

[bma725]

This notion that pro's don't need four wedges because they are able to gauge distance with just three flies in the face of all of the research that has been done on the subject. In fact the whole reason Pelz even came up with idea of 4 wedges was from watching how bad the pros were with just their normal wedges. They thought they were good at gauging distances and a lot of the time they turned out to be wrong, and not just a little bit but so wrong it was costing them strokes and in some cases tournaments.

 

But it took him years to convince them that was the truth and some didn't agree even when they were confronted with the statistical evidence about their own games. It took him years to convince tour players to add a 60 degree wedge to their bags because they were too stubborn to do so. And even when he got a handful to do it, it wasn't for another decade that you began to see nearly every player use 3 wedges.

 

My point is, more pro's will continue to go to the 4 wedge set up as time goes on, it just takes a lot to get them to change their set up like that. Even if the evidence has been smacking them in the face for years.