Car buying irritations

[MtlJeff]

So MtlJeff was all ready to buy a new car and did some research. My whole life i've owned Toyota's but this time, since they didn't have a AWD car i was interested in, and i just really wanted AWD....i was looking elsewhere.

 

One of the cars on my short list was the Renegade Trailhawk.

 

Anyway i went to Jeep to check it out and speak to someone. Didn't really realize that Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge had so many options beyond the "basic" package they offer, which itself was more than enough for MtlJeff

 

So here's the thing, most of the cars they get in have some kind of combination of packages....that i really had no interest in. So after spending a bunch of time with the sales guy, he's like "we have two Trailhawks coming in the next 4-5 months, and one has like 3000$ worth of upgrades, and the other one has like 4000$ worth of upgrades" and that's all i could choose from. He said if you want the basic package you're going to be waiting all year since they are made in Italy and the dealers don't get a lot of choice.

 

Well.....that kinda sucked. I checked the other dealer close to me and basically same story. None available in the basic Trailhawk package. I really hadn't even considered this could be a problem. Toyota has very few "extras" so this was never really a thing with them. You just pick your model and they find one for you. Is this a common thing for most companies?

 

Now i'm worried since i'm going to go see Subarus next week. And one of the cars i want to check out is the WRX but with automatic transmission....i'm worried they'll tell me to take a hike too since i'm guessing that's a rare request LOL

 

Just kinda bummed since i was psyched about the trailhawk, but 3-4K extra is a big ask for stuff i don't want

[tuckman]

If you know the exact package you want then have a dealer do a nation wide search. Purchase and have it shipped to you.

[MtlJeff]

Hmmm, the guy did not seem to indicate that he could do that. I'll check out Subaru and if no dice i'll go back and see if that's possible. I noticed the sales guy called me today but did not leave a message...wonder what that was about

[SilverBullets]

It seems to be an American car thing to do. They stack up and load so many rediculous packages on their cars. All of the unpackaged cars are sent to rental fleets.

 

I hate American car companies

 

Subarus generally have very few packages. They come in 3 or 4 trims and then have a small amount of options/packages to add. Dealerships generally carry a nice mix of cars in different trims with a mix of options at the Subaru dealerships.

 

I Want to like subarus more than I do. I think they make really solid cars. Very reliable, great AWD, look pretty good... Their interiors and overall cabin noise are seriously lacking though (depending on what you are wanting and what is important to you). I only last 12 months with my 2015 WRX after I realized I just didn't like it. I would own a Crosstrek and/or a BRZ if they didn't have 2 cycle lawn mower motors on them

[Petethreeput]

We had a TDi and I was also looking for a new car. Looked everywhere and simply couldn't find the car I wanted... well I did but it was so cold it wouldn't start. When I asked about new batteries I was told no (Prius).

 

Anyway, buying cars sucks.

[ronnbee]

drive a new Legacy with eye-sight-nice car

stay away from jeep

[MtlJeff]

I drove the Legacy Limited and i loved it. It seems like a really safe choice

 

But i've driven nothing but safe choices my whole life. I kinda want a WRX

[SilverBullets]

I drove the Legacy Limited and i loved it. It seems like a really safe choice

 

But i've driven nothing but safe choices my whole life. I kinda want a WRX

 

I'd get a Legacy Limited over the Jeep all day long. Subarus are nearly bullet proof. Their issues are with things that are not mechinal.

 

The biggest compliant I had about my WRX was actually with the paint. It chipped and seemed to be thinner than any other paint on a car I have owned. Rock chips were pretty bad (and that common across Subaru's) and I had a spot on the roof where a small amount of bird poop actually ate through the clear coat and paint down to the raw metal. The bird poop was only on there for 24 or so hours as I am fairly diligent about getting that stuff off the car.

 

I found with the WRX, I grew tired of it quickly. It was fun to drive and starting it up each day brought a smile to my face. But the ride was extremely harsh and between the motor, the exhaust and just how Subaru's are, it was SO LOUD in the cabin at all times. The speakers were super 'tinny' and almost downright bad so you hear talk radio on the morning, between the noise of the car and the poor speakers, you had to essentially blast the radio to hear it.

 

My morning commute also changed from 6 miles to 30 miles each way. I grew tired of the car really quickly and after a year dumped it. If you are a 25 year old or under, go WRX all day long. Your a lot more tolerable to discomfort. If not, check out that Legacy. Great car.

[MtlJeff]

I drove the Legacy Limited and i loved it. It seems like a really safe choice

 

But i've driven nothing but safe choices my whole life. I kinda want a WRX

 

I'd get a Legacy Limited over the Jeep all day long. Subarus are nearly bullet proof. Their issues are with things that are not mechinal.

 

The biggest compliant I had about my WRX was actually with the paint. It chipped and seemed to be thinner than any other paint on a car I have owned. Rock chips were pretty bad (and that common across Subaru's) and I had a spot on the roof where a small amount of bird poop actually ate through the clear coat and paint down to the raw metal. The bird poop was only on there for 24 or so hours as I am fairly diligent about getting that stuff off the car.

 

I found with the WRX, I grew tired of it quickly. It was fun to drive and starting it up each day brought a smile to my face. But the ride was extremely harsh and between the motor, the exhaust and just how Subaru's are, it was SO LOUD in the cabin at all times. The speakers were super 'tinny' and almost downright bad so you hear talk radio on the morning, between the noise of the car and the poor speakers, you had to essentially blast the radio to hear it.

 

My morning commute also changed from 6 miles to 30 miles each way. I grew tired of the car really quickly and after a year dumped it. If you are a 25 year old or under, go WRX all day long. Your a lot more tolerable to discomfort. If not, check out that Legacy. Great car.

 

Haha, i'm 35....however i always wanted a WRX and figured it could be a good daily driver even despite some of it's foibles (that's why i wanted the automatic too). Our winters are bad here and me and my wife do drive into the mountains a few times a year to ski resorts. She has a SUV and i had narrowed my choices down to Renegade or the 3 Subarus (WRX, Legacy, Crosstrek) but the Crosstrek is an old design that is being updated in 6 months. So not sure i want to buy the old one or the new one since i've had bad luck with recalls with brand new models.

 

So once i found out the Renegade i basically couldn't get. It was pretty much the WRX or the Legacy (i don't want to spend more than 30-33K canadian and i want new since i drive so little i usually can buy and sell new cars for less than the cost of leasing)

 

I drive about 10,000km a year. So almost nothing

 

I drove the Legacy 2.5 Limited and yeah it was really smooth, goes over bumps effortlessly, nice interior....and it's the same cost as the WRX. Hard to go wrong, but i've also never owned a fun car , so that's what's kind of pulling at me.

[ZAP]

Worst part about buying a car is it is one of those things that SHOULD be fun. And it isn't.

[Petethreeput]

Worst part about buying a car is it is one of those things that SHOULD be fun. And it isn't.

 

You said it much better than I. A consumer wants a feature, but it is tied to 10 others. Why is paint color tied to seat fabric? Or wheel style to navigation, etc. Then, after you fight through that, you deal with salesman who goes back and forth with the sales manager about, "what we can do on this car is..."

 

We keep a car for 10 years just so I only have to do it once every 5 years (we have 2 cars).

 

I just bought a new car in December. I was so irritated with the process I walked into the dealer (I had done a lot of research) and told the first guy who introduced himself, "do you still have x car at x price?" He said yes. I said, "I'll take it." It was marked down bc it is a 2016 so I knew there wasn't a lot of movement for them including "trunk money."

[MtlJeff]

Oh that's the other thing i forgot to mention too about Jeep. The dealer i went to first was advertising on their site that they had a marked down 2016 Trailhawk, they even had pictures of it on the lot. When i visited the dealer they claimed to have no record of it , guy showed me the computer searching for that trim and it showed zero on the lot.

 

So that was kinda weird too

[Mulligan26]

Please don't buy a WRX with an auto Jeff, thats sacrilege

[MtlJeff]

Please don't buy a WRX with an auto Jeff, thats sacrilege

 

I know it is, i'm embarrassed to even ask the sales guy. And i can drive manual ...

 

If it was a second car or i lived in the country i would get the manual for sure. Even though i don't drive much there's days where i have to sit in traffic. I also routinely drink coffee in the car on the way to work. Don't want to be shifting again

 

The reviews of the automatic all say that it is much worse, but it is what it is. I can't get the stick

[bladehunter]

Guy guys ...I feel your pain. But please no that buyers caused the current " package " situation that car buying is plagued with.

Once upon a time it's was a pay as you go option buffet. One option at at a time for the most part. But buyers would hit on cars with say the higher end wheels , a flashy paint color and no other options. They would then price match other lots with the higher optioned cars and demand to know why lot A car is $5k cheaper than Lot B . It lead to lots only wanting to stock these stripped out flashy liking models for price wars. You had t order anything with options. So eventually to simplify things they grouped them into option groups. So true stripper models with upgraded exterior looks can't be had.

 

I hate to say it but it was the ignorant buyer who caused this. It had to be made simpler so folks could understand the price. Not every one mine you. But the majority of the car buying public makes it harder on themselves by not doing homework before hand. When I go into s dealership I know more about the vehicle than the salesperson. I have the entire vehic speced out. And my questions are as follows. Do you have it ? Can you get it ? And what will you sell it for ? It's that easy. If they balk at that, I go down the road. I'm a "lay down " to use the industry term, if you listen to what I'm asking for and get down to it. If you try to sell me what I don't ask for I'm going to find someone who wants to sell me a truck. Most salespeople appreciate a educated buyer. But every once in a while you will find one who doesn't. Best to just find another at that point.

[dan360]

I wanted a diesel Chevy Colorado. (Starting at 21,900)

 

Oh. Wait. To get a "diesel" Chevy Colorado, I have to buy a fully loaded crew cab 4x4 model. (Starting at 39,600)

 

My want of a diesel Chevy Colorado ended on the Chevy website.

 

That's the kind of stupidity a buyer DIDN'T cause. That's the automaker being money hungry.

 

Oh. One more thing. That diesel Chevy Colorado. Fully loaded. Oh ya. A block heater? That'll be an additional $200

 

F you Chevy.

[MtlJeff]

Packages in general are crazy. I still am amazed at the 1500-2000$ upcharge for navigation when you can buy GPS for 100$. Or just use your phone for free considering the data we all get now. Why do those packages still exist even

[MtlJeff]

Dan, it's also interesting to see heated seats for example. Subaru offers it on almost every vehicle, toyota has 21000$ models with it. With jeep they have 35000$ cars that you have to buy an additional 900$ "cold weather package", one of the cars headed to MONTREAL did not have this

[Boogs2]

It seems to be an American car thing to do. They stack up and load so many rediculous packages on their cars. All of the unpackaged cars are sent to rental fleets.

 

I hate American car companies

 

Subarus generally have very few packages. They come in 3 or 4 trims and then have a small amount of options/packages to add. Dealerships generally carry a nice mix of cars in different trims with a mix of options at the Subaru dealerships.

 

I Want to like subarus more than I do. I think they make really solid cars. Very reliable, great AWD, look pretty good... Their interiors and overall cabin noise are seriously lacking though (depending on what you are wanting and what is important to you). I only last 12 months with my 2015 WRX after I realized I just didn't like it. I would own a Crosstrek and/or a BRZ if they didn't have 2 cycle lawn mower motors on them

 

Yup, I agree, I see it mainly on American vehicles where to get one thing, you'd have to add "Group A" and "Group 101" and "Group Tech" to get what you want, which adds about an extra 5k-10k in options. Kinda sucks cause sometimes you want a pretty basic vehicle but that one feature to keep it within your budget, but now since you have to add several package options, it bumps it out to a range out of reach. I've been a Honda person mainly cause of a great dealer we knew and basically the only option there was, was navi or no navi, lol. Now they're starting to add certain packages but not as much as American vehicles.

 

Eventually one day, I'd still love to get a Wrangler Unlimited but I keep reading about reliability issues. Could be with an older model though, not entirely sure.

[CBJ]

If you go with a Subaru make sure you get an extended warranty, their quality isn't what it use to be and they have a problem with defective engine blocks cracking and leaking oil.

[2ball]

So MtlJeff was all ready to buy a new car and did some research. My whole life i've owned Toyota's but this time, since they didn't have a AWD car i was interested in, and i just really wanted AWD....i was looking elsewhere.

 

One of the cars on my short list was the Renegade Trailhawk.

 

Anyway i went to Jeep to check it out and speak to someone. Didn't really realize that Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge had so many options beyond the "basic" package they offer, which itself was more than enough for MtlJeff

 

So here's the thing, most of the cars they get in have some kind of combination of packages....that i really had no interest in. So after spending a bunch of time with the sales guy, he's like "we have two Trailhawks coming in the next 4-5 months, and one has like 3000$ worth of upgrades, and the other one has like 4000$ worth of upgrades" and that's all i could choose from. He said if you want the basic package you're going to be waiting all year since they are made in Italy and the dealers don't get a lot of choice.

 

Well.....that kinda sucked. I checked the other dealer close to me and basically same story. None available in the basic Trailhawk package. I really hadn't even considered this could be a problem. Toyota has very few "extras" so this was never really a thing with them. You just pick your model and they find one for you. Is this a common thing for most companies?

 

Now i'm worried since i'm going to go see Subarus next week. And one of the cars i want to check out is the WRX but with automatic transmission....i'm worried they'll tell me to take a hike too since i'm guessing that's a rare request LOL

 

Just kinda bummed since i was psyched about the trailhawk, but 3-4K extra is a big ask for stuff i don't want

 

Save yourself time and money. Do all your research then just email the internet managers and do all your negotiating with them. Never a need to step into a dealership until you have the price you want on the car you want.

[hammy83]

If you go with a Subaru make sure you get an extended warranty, their quality isn't what it use to be and they have a problem with defective engine blocks cracking and leaking oil.

 

I was reading above about how the quality is amazing and I'm sitting here like :russian_roulette: . Every one I know that has had a Subaru has had engine troubles. One of my good friends at work who babies his vehicles bought a used forrester for 26k (canadian) with a warranty. After 2 years of owning the vehicle and 23k in maintenance (not an over reaction) he had to get rid of it. The tranny went shortly after purchase and they wouldnt warranty it because records didnt show the last time the tranny fluid was changed. He started to deal with another dealership and then the next major issue happened. The block cracked and of course they wouldnt warranty it because his last oil change he used the wrong oil. the oil change was done at the dealership!!!.

My other friend had a non wrx imprezza and the headgasket went shortly after 60k (miles) of course they wouldnt warranty it because he didnt get a coolant flush. All of these situations come from different dealerships. I'd stay far away from 2010 plus subaru's.

[Falang_Golfer]

Seems like you went to a terrible dealer who doesn't want to help. The model you want is available, they should at least be willing to order it for you. Of course they only have the fully loaded ones coming in that they are going to put in the lot, they have that sweet markup on them. Typically upgrades have a 50% margin on them at least from the manufacturer and dealer. I would either find a local dealer who is willing to get one from another dealer or find one that has it even far away and go get it from them. Hopefully you find what you want. Good luck.

[stryper]

I'm lucky...hard core Honda guy with a great local dealer/sales and service. Plenty of stock to choose from, and on the one or two occasions they didn't have exactly what I wanted on the lot, I didn't have to wait more than a day to drive it home. Although Honda does seem to run a year or two behind other car companies, when it comes to some of the bells and whistles, I'll suffer through the inconvenience of that for the performance and dependability I've always gotten.

[warfelg]

So MtlJeff was all ready to buy a new car and did some research. My whole life i've owned Toyota's but this time, since they didn't have a AWD car i was interested in, and i just really wanted AWD....i was looking elsewhere.

 

One of the cars on my short list was the Renegade Trailhawk.

 

Anyway i went to Jeep to check it out and speak to someone. Didn't really realize that Jeep/Chrysler/Dodge had so many options beyond the "basic" package they offer, which itself was more than enough for MtlJeff

 

So here's the thing, most of the cars they get in have some kind of combination of packages....that i really had no interest in. So after spending a bunch of time with the sales guy, he's like "we have two Trailhawks coming in the next 4-5 months, and one has like 3000$ worth of upgrades, and the other one has like 4000$ worth of upgrades" and that's all i could choose from. He said if you want the basic package you're going to be waiting all year since they are made in Italy and the dealers don't get a lot of choice.

 

Well.....that kinda sucked. I checked the other dealer close to me and basically same story. None available in the basic Trailhawk package. I really hadn't even considered this could be a problem. Toyota has very few "extras" so this was never really a thing with them. You just pick your model and they find one for you. Is this a common thing for most companies?

 

Now i'm worried since i'm going to go see Subarus next week. And one of the cars i want to check out is the WRX but with automatic transmission....i'm worried they'll tell me to take a hike too since i'm guessing that's a rare request LOL

 

Just kinda bummed since i was psyched about the trailhawk, but 3-4K extra is a big ask for stuff i don't want

 

Save yourself time and money. Do all your research then just email the internet managers and do all your negotiating with them. Never a need to step into a dealership until you have the price you want on the car you want.

 

Well said. I don't think I've ever spent more time on the lot than what it takes for them to pull up the car I want, me to test drive, me to decide.

 

I've hardlined a few dealers in my day. My current car was listed (used) at $18.5K. I took it for a test drive, loved it (2012 S60 T6 AWD R-Design). I knew they already underpriced it because they went purely off the number of miles on the odometer (89K at the time), as it was fully loaded (navi, radar cruise control, smart stop, review camera, and all the other Volvo goodies) too. So I went in, asked to see the sales manager. Told him I had a check for $17K (I got a loan ahead of time so I knew exactly how much I was going to spend), and I would drive the car off his lot that day if he could take that check all in on the price.

 

Sometimes knowing exactly what you want to spend and being pre-approved for a loan will make a huge impact on how a car salesman(or woman) will treat you. If they know you have to get the loan from them they will be (at times) a little less helpful, because they know that sale will somehow come back to them. The person that knows exactly what they want and how much they will spend, and at times having the financing lined up, is an easier sale to them.

[bigred90gt]

Why not order the vehicle with the options you want?

[MtlJeff]

Why not order the vehicle with the options you want?

 

I was essentially told I couldn't. That I could but the wait for the car would be ridiculous, many many months.

 

Could have been BS I don't know. I've never bought a jeep before. The guy called me back and I told him I wasn't interested in the car with the extra options.

[bigred90gt]

Why not order the vehicle with the options you want?

 

I was essentially told I couldn't. That I could but the wait for the car would be ridiculous, many many months.

 

Could have been BS I don't know. I've never bought a jeep before. The guy called me back and I told him I wasn't interested in the car with the extra options.

 

I've never ordered one, but from what I hear it's usually 6 weeks to a couple of mknths to get one, but if you don't want to pony up the cash for extra options you don't want, that might be your only way to avoid it.

[MtlJeff]

I'll see if the dude calls me back, I have to wait a couple of weeks just to be safe since new cars come with summer tires, and we're probably not done our snow yet.

 

So I'll probably buy next week and assume a couple of weeks for delivery, I'd be willing to wait longer for the right deal on a renegade, but not like 5-6 months

[Imp]

Some of the Subaru comments are spot on here.

 

Subaru is not known for paint. It's said that the thinner paint is weight savings that ups MPG.

 

The WRX doesn't come in a true automatic anymore. It's a chain driven CVT - which takes some getting used to. It has both its upsides and downsides. The biggest thing to get used to is shifting. ALL OUR LIVES we've felt "the shift" whether in a stick or AT as it selects new gears. That does not happen in a CVT (think snowmobiles). It constantly applies power even when going changing "gears" (ratios). There is no "shift gap". You don't get that feeling we've felt for the 35 years you've been a passenger and driver in a car. :) It's quite different, some people hate it, because it's different and you don't get that sense of "power" during acceleration as it drops rpms, climbs, drops again for the next gear, climbs through the range again, etc...

 

The WRX has plenty of power. But if you want to add more (COBB/Accessport/tuning) with a WRX with CVT, don't. It can't take much more. There are known issues. You need to start with a manual.

 

You're in Canuckistan, right? I just went to the Subaru.ca site, and that's messed up. You can't check multiple inventories. You HAVE TO go to a dealer? Ugh. Shoot me now. Here I the US, we can see inventory at any dealer. Helps before even having to go in to talk to them. You know what they have and don't have. That sucks. I'd check around your local dealer sites to see. (Do you have something like truecar.com or autotrader.com? Lots of dealers list their new cars through those services, so you can see what's around and who has what.

 

--kC

(Has personally owned 8 Subarus, family many more)