Lexi Thompson ANA

[Mr. Bean]

I'm not suggesting waiving the rule. I'm suggesting it is a STUPID rule and should be done away with.

 

Someone breaks a rule and doesn't realize it and they get hit with a penalty.

 

Let us imagine there is no such Rule.

 

Any player can anytime say they did not know the Rule thus did not know they incurred a penalty. So the player who knows least of the Rules wins.

 

Great ! Problem solved!

 

Thank You, nsxguy!

[sui generis]

There is nothing "stupid" about the Rules creating a disincentive to recording a wrong score. You may not like it, but it is clearly not stupid. It's one valid way to go.

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I think you're purposely missing avoiding the point.

 

It's one thing to penalize for an arithmetic mistake or mistakenly marking a lower score on a hole, "forgetting" a stroke.

 

It's quite another penalizing someone for something they don't know about.

 

And the distinction between the 2 is simplicity itself.

 

You wish to absolve the player (and caddie) from their duty under R6-1 to know the Rules?

[HitEmTrue]

There is nothing "stupid" about the Rules creating a disincentive to recording a wrong score. You may not like it, but it is clearly not stupid. It's one valid way to go.

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I think you're purposely missing avoiding the point.

 

It's one thing to penalize for an arithmetic mistake or mistakenly marking a lower score on a hole, "forgetting" a stroke.

 

It's quite another penalizing someone for something they don't know about.

 

And the distinction between the 2 is simplicity itself.

 

How would your rules handle the situation where the player SHOULD know he broke a rule, but simply didn't realize it at the time? He either was careless, or didn't realize he was in that rule situation.

 

Couple of examples:

 

(Scenario 2 from above)

Player moves ball marker on green to get it out of the way of another player, and forgets to put it back to the correct spot.

 

(Scenario 5)

Player replaces ball in front of ball mark. This player has a habit of leaving his marker in position behind the ball until he's ready to putt. Several seconds later, the wind blows the ball to a new location. He picks the ball up and puts it back in front of the mark.

[Sawgrass]

There is nothing "stupid" about the Rules creating a disincentive to recording a wrong score. You may not like it, but it is clearly not stupid. It's one valid way to go.

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I think you're purposely missing avoiding the point.

 

It's one thing to penalize for an arithmetic mistake or mistakenly marking a lower score on a hole, "forgetting" a stroke.

 

It's quite another penalizing someone for something they don't know about.

 

And the distinction between the 2 is simplicity itself.

 

The only thing I agree with you on is that I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

Look, there's a binary choice here. You either impose no additional penalty on a player who fails to penalize themselves, or you do. The former will quite obviously lead to a Wild West like atmosphere. The latter will provide incentive to play carefully.

 

I'll let you guess which of the two I find "stupid."

[dpb5031]

So it's like this?

 

We suspect you cheated intentionally, but we can't really prove your intent and are too cowardly to make a really tough call. We'll acknowledge on national TV that we know your intentions were pure & that you truly were unaware of the rules violation. Beyond that we've also determined that it WAS NOT a serious enough breach to warrant a DQ, but we're still going to sock you with an additional 2 stroke penalty for signing an incorrect card, that BTW, we've already determined was correct when you signed it yesterday because you were UNAWARE that the violation occured. This is all just in case and because we really don't believe you that it was unintentional and for it also to serve as a future deterrent for others.

 

@weak sauce

[HitEmTrue]

I don't see why.

 

( Scenario 1)

Here's one I threw out yesterday...

 

So if the marker accidentally writes down a par instead of a bogey on a hole, the player doesn't notice the error, and signs the card, it's set in stone? 3rd player in the group sees the scores later and says something about it to the committee, but too-bad-so-sad, the card has been signed and accepted.

 

(Scenario 2)

Player A his ball mark by a putter length, because it is in Player B's way. He forgets to put the ball back in the correct location before putting. That evening, he realizes his mistake.

 

Score card cannot be corrected?

 

(Scenario 3)

Over dinner that night, player B says to player A, "Hey, did you remember to move your ball back on hole #5 today?"

 

"Uh, no, I didn't!"

 

(Scenario 4)

Someone at ESPN notices that ball wasn't moved back. They play the video on Sports Center, and one of the on-course refs for that event sees it while he's eating dinner that night.

 

Too late to fix the scorecard?

 

If the scorecard can be fixed in these scenarios, no penalty for being careless?

 

 

arent you perfectly illustrating one of the great inequities ive been talking about ? how that a score cannot be changed via your example 1. yet later that same score may be amended by the comittee for any reason they deem fit.... why cant common sense prevail at times and allowfor a change such as in your example #1?

 

My scenarios were in direct response to Sean's following statement:

 

"Once the scorecard is signed...and accepted by the officials...it's done. It's over. No changes can be applied thereafter."

 

 

So you think changes should be allowed in certain scenarios, but not allowed in others?

[HitEmTrue]

So it's like this?

 

We suspect you cheated intentionally, but we can't really prove your intent and are too cowardly to make a really tough call. We'll acknowledge on national TV that we know your intentions were pure & that you truly were unaware of the rules violation. Beyond that we've also determined that it WAS NOT a serious enough breach to warrant a DQ, but we're still going to sock you with an additional 2 stroke penalty for signing an incorrect card, that BTW, we've already determined was correct when you signed it yesterday because you were UNAWARE that the violation occured. This is all just in case and because we really don't believe you that it was unintentional and for it also to serve as a future deterrent for others.

 

@weak sauce

 

They only had two options: DQ, or 2-stroke penalty for signing an incorrect card.

[chris975d]

There is nothing "stupid" about the Rules creating a disincentive to recording a wrong score. You may not like it, but it is clearly not stupid. It's one valid way to go.

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I think you're purposely missing avoiding the point.

 

It's one thing to penalize for an arithmetic mistake or mistakenly marking a lower score on a hole, "forgetting" a stroke.

 

It's quite another penalizing someone for something they don't know about.

 

And the distinction between the 2 is simplicity itself.

 

I think you are also missing a point here.

 

How do you determine that she didn't know? Therein lies the problem.

 

The answer is, you can't. Thus, imo, the need for the 2 stroke penalty to protect the field.

 

It simply boils down to this: if she had marked the ball correctly, as it is her responsibility to do, these 14+ pages and her 4 stroke penalty would not exist.

 

But the committee DID determine intent. However they did, they did in fact do that. If they had thought she intentionally did it, it would have been a DQ. But because the intent to gain an advantage wasn't thought to be there, they "just" assessed the 4 stroke penalty.

 

So obviously the powers that be already think they can establish intent. So who are we all to say they can't?

[dpb5031]

So it's like this?

 

We suspect you cheated intentionally, but we can't really prove your intent and are too cowardly to make a really tough call. We'll acknowledge on national TV that we know your intentions were pure & that you truly were unaware of the rules violation. Beyond that we've also determined that it WAS NOT a serious enough breach to warrant a DQ, but we're still going to sock you with an additional 2 stroke penalty for signing an incorrect card, that BTW, we've already determined was correct when you signed it yesterday because you were UNAWARE that the violation occured. This is all just in case and because we really don't believe you that it was unintentional and for it also to serve as a future deterrent for others.

 

@weak sauce

 

They only had two options: DQ, or 2-stroke penalty for signing an incorrect card.

 

I know what the options were/are under the current rules. And I suppose they had a third option to determine that no violation occured at all using the technology reference.

 

I'm saying the rule stinks and should be changed.

[nsxguy]

I'm not suggesting waiving the rule. I'm suggesting it is a STUPID rule and should be done away with.

 

Someone breaks a rule and doesn't realize it and they get hit with a penalty.

 

Let us imagine there is no such Rule.

 

Any player can anytime say they did not know the Rule thus did not know they incurred a penalty. So the player who knows least of the Rules wins.

 

Great ! Problem solved!

 

Thank You, nsxguy!

 

So they're going to break the rules and not call themselves on it ?

 

Or even do so intentionally because they know if they're caught they're only going to get the penalty they should have gotten anyway ?

 

So you're suggesting they are LYING then, no ?

 

So they're cheating then, yes ?

 

So why do you watch these dirtbags ?

[Hardluckster]

But the committee DID determine intent. However they did, they did in fact do that. If they had thought she intentionally did it, it would have been a DQ. But because the intent to gain an advantage wasn't thought to be there, they "just" assessed the 4 stroke penalty.

 

So obviously the powers that be already think they can establish intent. So who are we all to say they can't?

 

I would suggest that it was most likely more a matter of giving her the benefit of the doubt. You could look at the situation as if they did her a favor by deciding that they thought, for whatever reason, that it was an honest mistake.

 

Their ruling allowed her to continue in the competition and ultimately get to a playoff for the win.

 

And I don't think the rule stinks. I think it accomplishes what it is designed to accomplish.

 

Its all perspective.

 

Again, if she does what she is responsible for doing, none of this ever gets typed and she doesn't get 4 penalty strokes.

[nsxguy]

There is nothing "stupid" about the Rules creating a disincentive to recording a wrong score. You may not like it, but it is clearly not stupid. It's one valid way to go.

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I think you're purposely missing avoiding the point.

 

It's one thing to penalize for an arithmetic mistake or mistakenly marking a lower score on a hole, "forgetting" a stroke.

 

It's quite another penalizing someone for something they don't know about.

 

And the distinction between the 2 is simplicity itself.

 

The only thing I agree with you on is that I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

Look, there's a binary choice here. You either impose no additional penalty on a player who fails to penalize themselves, or you do. The former will quite obviously lead to a Wild West like atmosphere. The latter will provide incentive to play carefully.

 

I'll let you guess which of the two I find "stupid."

 

So your posit is that if there wasn't an extr 2 shot penalty for signing a wrong scorecard because of a penalty they didn't know they committed they'd take all sorts of liberties with the Rules ? I mean that IS what you're suggesting. So why do any of us watch ?

 

Players already call penalties on themselves.

 

And if they're not sure they call a rules officials,,,,,, so they DON'T have to incur the penalty.

 

What do you think drives so many people watching crazy nowadays ? The simplest drop and they call over an official.

 

So "Wild West" ??? Exaggerate much ?

 

And yes, I realize it's a binary option now. They do it or they don't.

 

However, and I'm sure you know this. I'm not saying the current rule was applied incorrectly. I'm saying it's a STUPID rule.

 

Especially if you consider the actions players take (as above) ALL THE TIME. THEY don't want to get caught breaking anything or commit a penalty that could have been avoided by asking an official - it would cost them way too much - and not just money.

 

You either believe in the basic honesty of the Tour players or you don't. I'd say that unless the Committee sees evidence the player used a foot wedge to get their ball out from behind a tree their default is the player didn't realize. I think that's a proper attitude to take.

[sui generis]

There is nothing "stupid" about the Rules creating a disincentive to recording a wrong score. You may not like it, but it is clearly not stupid. It's one valid way to go.

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I think you're purposely missing avoiding the point.

 

It's one thing to penalize for an arithmetic mistake or mistakenly marking a lower score on a hole, "forgetting" a stroke.

 

It's quite another penalizing someone for something they don't know about.

 

And the distinction between the 2 is simplicity itself.

 

The only thing I agree with you on is that I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

Look, there's a binary choice here. You either impose no additional penalty on a player who fails to penalize themselves, or you do. The former will quite obviously lead to a Wild West like atmosphere. The latter will provide incentive to play carefully.

 

I'll let you guess which of the two I find "stupid."

 

So your posit is that if there wasn't an extr 2 shot penalty for signing a wrong scorecard because of a penalty they didn't know they committed they'd take all sorts of liberties with the Rules ? I mean that IS what you're suggesting. So why do any of us watch ?

 

Players already call penalties on themselves.

 

And if they're not sure they call a rules officials,,,,,, so they DON'T have to incur the penalty.

 

What do you think drives so many people watching crazy nowadays ? The simplest drop and they call over an official.

 

So "Wild West" ??? Exaggerate much ?

 

And yes, I realize it's a binary option now. They do it or they don't.

 

However, and I'm sure you know this. I'm not saying the current rule was applied incorrectly. I'm saying it's a STUPID rule.

 

Especially if you consider the actions players take (as above) ALL THE TIME. THEY don't want to get caught breaking anything or commit a penalty that could have been avoided by asking an official - it would cost them way too much - and not just money.

 

You either believe in the basic honesty of the Tour players or you don't. I'd say that unless the Committee sees evidence the player used a foot wedge to get their ball out from behind a tree their default is the player didn't realize. I think that's a proper attitude to take.

 

You do seem to have the wrong end of the stick on this one. :golfer:

[chris975d]

I'm not suggesting waiving the rule. I'm suggesting it is a STUPID rule and should be done away with.

 

Someone breaks a rule and doesn't realize it and they get hit with a penalty.

 

Let us imagine there is no such Rule.

 

Any player can anytime say they did not know the Rule thus did not know they incurred a penalty. So the player who knows least of the Rules wins.

 

Great ! Problem solved!

 

Thank You, nsxguy!

 

So the same people saying that golf is a game of honor and the vast majority doesn't cheat are also saying we need harsh enough penalties to keep this "honorable" bunch from cheating?

 

Which is it? Are they a group of cheaters looking for every angle on the rules, or are tour players honorable? Can't play both sides of the fence.

[Hardluckster]

You either believe in the basic honesty of the Tour players or you don't. I'd say that unless the Committee sees evidence the player used a foot wedge to get their ball out from behind a tree their default is the player didn't realize. I think that's a proper attitude to take.

 

Have you read Phil's remarks about this practice?

 

Have you read Jack's firsthand accounts of playing with people who did this?

[Hardluckster]

 

So the same people saying that golf is a game of honor and the vast majority doesn't cheat are also saying we need harsh enough penalties to keep this "honorable" bunch from cheating?

 

Which is it? Are they a group of cheaters looking for every angle on the rules, or are tour players honorable? Can't play both sides of the fence.

 

Saying that golf is a game of honor does not necessarily suggest that everyone who plays golf is honorable.

 

Have you read Phil's remarks about this practice?

 

Have you read Jack's firsthand accounts of playing with people who did this?

[Colin L]

You just don't like the fact that someone who wasn't a ref caught the violation, and you're trying to make that objection into something it isn't.

 

1) Let's cut to the chase, you have no idea what I do, or do not like. True?

2) I mentioned every conceivable person who could have caught the violation using the rule as their guide, with the naked eye.

3) None of those people available, all of whom I mentioned -- including the player -- discerned its movement with the naked eye. None.

 

Your deduction that because no-one noticed the misplacement at the time it wasn't discernible to the naked eye is unsupportable. Because no-one sees something happen (including the player if it were accidental) , it does not mean that it didn't happen. If an action that no-one else noticed is deliberate, the person who acted will know. You cannot be ignorant of a deliberate action. I have no more idea than anyone whether the misplacement was deliberate. That is not my point. I just don't like conclusions being based on faulty reasoning.

[chris975d]

There is nothing "stupid" about the Rules creating a disincentive to recording a wrong score. You may not like it, but it is clearly not stupid. It's one valid way to go.

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But I think you're purposely missing avoiding the point.

 

It's one thing to penalize for an arithmetic mistake or mistakenly marking a lower score on a hole, "forgetting" a stroke.

 

It's quite another penalizing someone for something they don't know about.

 

And the distinction between the 2 is simplicity itself.

 

The only thing I agree with you on is that I'm entitled to my opinion.

 

Look, there's a binary choice here. You either impose no additional penalty on a player who fails to penalize themselves, or you do. The former will quite obviously lead to a Wild West like atmosphere. The latter will provide incentive to play carefully.

 

I'll let you guess which of the two I find "stupid."

 

So your posit is that if there wasn't an extr 2 shot penalty for signing a wrong scorecard because of a penalty they didn't know they committed they'd take all sorts of liberties with the Rules ? I mean that IS what you're suggesting. So why do any of us watch ?

 

Players already call penalties on themselves.

 

And if they're not sure they call a rules officials,,,,,, so they DON'T have to incur the penalty.

 

What do you think drives so many people watching crazy nowadays ? The simplest drop and they call over an official.

 

So "Wild West" ??? Exaggerate much ?

 

And yes, I realize it's a binary option now. They do it or they don't.

 

However, and I'm sure you know this. I'm not saying the current rule was applied incorrectly. I'm saying it's a STUPID rule.

 

Especially if you consider the actions players take (as above) ALL THE TIME. THEY don't want to get caught breaking anything or commit a penalty that could have been avoided by asking an official - it would cost them way too much - and not just money.

 

You either believe in the basic honesty of the Tour players or you don't. I'd say that unless the Committee sees evidence the player used a foot wedge to get their ball out from behind a tree their default is the player didn't realize. I think that's a proper attitude to take.

 

Great post.

[HitEmTrue]

Which is it? Are they a group of cheaters looking for every angle on the rules, or are tour players honorable? Can't play both sides of the fence.

 

Why are those the only two options?

 

I posted some scenarios in post #424 and #391. Honest mistakes. But the player should have known.

 

How do you think the rules should handle these situations? Simply fix the card the next day and move on? Or should the player have some responsibility to get it right?

[chris975d]

Which is it? Are they a group of cheaters looking for every angle on the rules, or are tour players honorable? Can't play both sides of the fence.

 

Why are those the only two options?

 

I posted some scenarios in post #424 and #391. Honest mistakes. But the player should have known.

 

How do you think the rules should handle these situations? Simply fix the card the next day and move on? Or should the player have some responsibility to get it right?

 

Since the committee already thinks they can determine intent, as they did with Lexi...if they thought she had knowledge of her mistake, she would have been DQed, then allow an amended scorecard to be signed and forego the stupid (in this case) additional 2 stroke penalty.

 

If the committee can say they determined her intent wasn't to cheat, then the natural assumption is that they also feel they CAN determine when someone was trying to gain an advantage.

 

I know the current rules only allowed them to do it the way they did in Lexis case, but the powers that be that make up these rules are so intelligent, they should have thought it out more. Allowing penalties to be called after that round is completed is truly asinine. Especially when you don't generally allow it for Sunday rounds (competition is closed at the end of Sunday).

 

The rule should be amended/changed. Mistakes unknown to the player and discovered after the fact should be allowed to sign an amended scorecard. Or, hold the signature until the end of all 4 (or 3) rounds. That actually makes more sense, since the powers that be think of end of play Sunday as the last time to retroactively penalize rules breaches.

[Mr. Bean]

I'm not suggesting waiving the rule. I'm suggesting it is a STUPID rule and should be done away with.

 

Someone breaks a rule and doesn't realize it and they get hit with a penalty.

 

Let us imagine there is no such Rule.

 

Any player can anytime say they did not know the Rule thus did not know they incurred a penalty. So the player who knows least of the Rules wins.

 

Great ! Problem solved!

 

Thank You, nsxguy!

 

So they're going to break the rules and not call themselves on it ?

 

Or even do so intentionally because they know if they're caught they're only going to get the penalty they should have gotten anyway ?

 

So you're suggesting they are LYING then, no ?

 

So they're cheating then, yes ?

 

So why do you watch these dirtbags ?

 

You missed the ENTIRE point (of which I am not surprised as you deliberately try to avoid admitting you are dead wrong...).

 

IF a player does not KNOW the Rule they cannot be penalized for omitting any penalty based on THAT Rule from the score. That is what you are saying and proposing.

 

SO, a player who knows NO Rules at all cannot be penalized. End of story. And end of golf.

 

EDIT: I ask myself why am I talking to these guys??? I answered to myself: not anymore. They can have their opinions as they cannot be changed with any rational argument anyway, so I let it go.

[HitEmTrue]

The rule should be amended/changed. Mistakes unknown to the player and discovered after the fact should be allowed to sign an amended scorecard. Or, hold the signature until the end of all 4 (or 3) rounds. That actually makes more sense, since the powers that be think of end of play Sunday as the last time to retroactively penalize rules breaches.

 

Just be clear...you think a player should be able to make obvious rules violations (done innocently, no intention to cheat), and correct the mistake later?

 

To be consistent, do you also think they can accidentally write down the wrong (lower) score on a hole (no penalties), and correct the mistake the next day?

[chris975d]

I'm not suggesting waiving the rule. I'm suggesting it is a STUPID rule and should be done away with.

 

Someone breaks a rule and doesn't realize it and they get hit with a penalty.

 

Let us imagine there is no such Rule.

 

Any player can anytime say they did not know the Rule thus did not know they incurred a penalty. So the player who knows least of the Rules wins.

 

Great ! Problem solved!

 

Thank You, nsxguy!

 

So they're going to break the rules and not call themselves on it ?

 

Or even do so intentionally because they know if they're caught they're only going to get the penalty they should have gotten anyway ?

 

So you're suggesting they are LYING then, no ?

 

So they're cheating then, yes ?

 

So why do you watch these dirtbags ?

 

You missed the ENTIRE point (of which I am not surprised as you deliberately try to avoid admitting you are dead wrong...).

 

IF a player does not KNOW the Rule they cannot be penalized for omitting any penalty based on THAT Rule from the score. That is what you are saying and proposing.

 

SO, a player who knows NO Rules at all cannot be penalized. End of story. And end of golf.

 

I really don't think anyone, including nsxguy, is proposing that. I think he's saying the additional penalty Lexi received. Mistake or not, she should get the 2 original stroke penalty for the incorrect marking/replacing. It sucks, but it is a breach of rules. But the additional penalty, when the committee decided her intent wasn't to gain an advantage, was a bit uncalled for and that rule should be changed in a lot of people's opinion.

[sui generis]

I'm not suggesting waiving the rule. I'm suggesting it is a STUPID rule and should be done away with.

 

Someone breaks a rule and doesn't realize it and they get hit with a penalty.

 

Let us imagine there is no such Rule.

 

Any player can anytime say they did not know the Rule thus did not know they incurred a penalty. So the player who knows least of the Rules wins.

 

Great ! Problem solved!

 

Thank You, nsxguy!

 

So they're going to break the rules and not call themselves on it ?

 

Or even do so intentionally because they know if they're caught they're only going to get the penalty they should have gotten anyway ?

 

So you're suggesting they are LYING then, no ?

 

So they're cheating then, yes ?

 

So why do you watch these dirtbags ?

 

You missed the ENTIRE point (of which I am not surprised as you deliberately try to avoid admitting you are dead wrong...).

 

IF a player does not KNOW the Rule they cannot be penalized for omitting any penalty based on THAT Rule from the score. That is what you are saying and proposing.

 

SO, a player who knows NO Rules at all cannot be penalized. End of story. And end of golf.

 

I really don't think anyone, including nsxguy, is proposing that. I think he's saying the additional penalty Lexi received. Mistake or not, she should get the 2 original stroke penalty for the incorrect marking/replacing. It sucks, but it is a breach of rules. But the additional penalty, when the committee decided her intent wasn't to gain an advantage, was a bit uncalled for and that rule should be changed in a lot of people's opinion.

 

Your suggestion means that a player need never penalize his or herself. Merely wait until the scoring tent to see if anyone else noticed. If no one speaks up, it's, "Nice 65 you had today, Fred."

[chris975d]

The rule should be amended/changed. Mistakes unknown to the player and discovered after the fact should be allowed to sign an amended scorecard. Or, hold the signature until the end of all 4 (or 3) rounds. That actually makes more sense, since the powers that be think of end of play Sunday as the last time to retroactively penalize rules breaches.

 

Just be clear...you think a player should be able to make obvious rules violations (done innocently, no intention to cheat), and correct the mistake later?

 

To be consistent, do you also think they can accidentally write down the wrong (lower) score on a hole (no penalties), and correct the mistake the next day?

 

Who in the hell said "no penalties"??? Where are you guys pulling this from?

 

My stance is this, and I think the rules should be changed to reflect this.

 

Lexi improperly marked her ball. That is a two stroke penalty. She should receive that. But after the committee determined that her intent wasn't to gain an advantage (aka unknown mistake), the 2 stroke additional penalty shouldn't have been given. There should be some provision in the rules for that, since the committee is already allowed to determine intent. If they are allowed a judgement to determine intent, they they should also be allowed to determine if the additional 2 stroke penalty is warranted. If she had been determined to be of malicious intent, then she would have been DQed.

[chris975d]

 

Your suggestion means that a player need never penalize his or herself. Merely wait until the scoring tent to see if anyone else noticed. If no one speaks up, it's, "Nice 65 you had today, Fred."

 

Given Phil's comments, the caddie survey where over half of tour caddies surveyed have witnessed cheating, do you REALLY think the cheaters are turning themselves in??

 

And how would it not be more or less the same thing that just happened with Lexi? She was found afterward to breach a rule, and the 2 strokes penalty was applied (in addition to 2 more strokes). If no one had discovered it, nothing would have been applied.

 

So based on my last paragraph there...what exactly is your point? If no one notices violations now, they go unpenalized.

[DaveLeeNC]

Just for grins take 3 cases.

 

1) Player A moves his mark as he is in the line of a FC. He forgets to move it back and on the next tee he thinks, 'oh crap - forgot to move it back'. He takes his 2 more strokes and moves on.

 

2) Player B does the same thing but doesn't remember it. Somewhere on the next hole a RO comes running up and says "I was tied up with another issue and about 100 feet away, but I didn't see you move your ball back." Player B takes his 2 more strokes and moves on.

 

3) Player C does the same thing, never recalls it, isn't informed, and turns his card in. The fact of that he didn't move it back comes to the attention of the committee and Player C gets a four stroke penalty.

 

Two things here.

 

1) There would seem to be some level of difference between A and B, but the difference between B and C is not at all obvious (other than for 2 strokes).

 

2) If there is no penalty for inadvertent wrong scores being turned in, isn't Player B kind of motivated to say "I am pretty sure I moved it back" and take his chances since the RO was a good distance away and a case could be made that he missed it.

 

dave

[HitEmTrue]

Who in the hell said "no penalties"??? Where are you guys pulling this from?

 

I am talking about DQ or 2-stroke penalty for signing an incorrect score card.

 

Please consider other scenarios besides this one with Lexi. Folks are upset because the 2 stroke additional penalty doesn't fit her crime, and I completely get that.

 

How would your proposed rules handle the scenarios I gave? No penalties at all for signing incorrect scorecard in those situations?

[chris975d]

Who in the hell said "no penalties"??? Where are you guys pulling this from?

 

I am talking about DQ or 2-stroke penalty for signing an incorrect score card.

 

Please consider other scenarios besides this one with Lexi. Folks are upset because the 2 stroke additional penalty doesn't fit her crime, and I completely get that.

 

How would your proposed rules handle the scenarios I gave? No penalties at all for signing incorrect scorecard in those situations?

 

Which scenarios again?

[HitEmTrue]

Who in the hell said "no penalties"??? Where are you guys pulling this from?

 

I am talking about DQ or 2-stroke penalty for signing an incorrect score card.

 

Please consider other scenarios besides this one with Lexi. Folks are upset because the 2 stroke additional penalty doesn't fit her crime, and I completely get that.

 

How would your proposed rules handle the scenarios I gave? No penalties at all for signing incorrect scorecard in those situations?

 

Which scenarios again?

 

Posts #391 (top of page 14) and #424 (3rd post on this page 15 I think)