Lexi Thompson ANA

[KevCarter]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

I've met and spoken with many officials on the national level, and I've done a lot of officiating on the local level. When asked the question, every single one has said their main concern is getting it right, no matter where the information came from. They don't see it as an issue.

 

[SHIVAN]

she deserves to be penalized 4 strokes, it was so blatantly different from her lie, like come on, u didn't know what u we're doing!? please

 

Blatantly? I say BS, not possible without HD zoomed in Here it is at standard zoom and I see nothing innocuous.

 

As I said, there it is in real time, and from where an FC or Caddy would witness the "infraction". Naked eye my rear-end....

[HighSpeedScene]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

Absolutely correct. They can make any rules they want, and it would be simple for them to do it.

 

So, why don't they? The answer to that, as Kev alluded above, is why I'm thankful they are in charge and not the guy that wants to crotch-punch the guys that volunteer their time to identify possible rules infractions.

[Sean2]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

I've met and spoken with many officials on the national level, and I've done a lot of officiating on the local level. When asked the question, every single one has said their main concern is getting it right, no matter where the information came from. They don't see it as an issue.

 

The issue I see Kevin is if they are going to do that then they need to scrutinize each and every shot of each and every player in each and every round in zoom/slo-motion. Right now the rule is being applied selectively. Who knows how many other violations were lurking out there?

[I_HATE_SNOW]

Exactly! She moved her ball an inch, no closer to the hole! She should be banned for life!

[HighSpeedScene]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

I've met and spoken with many officials on the national level, and I've done a lot of officiating on the local level. When asked the question, every single one has said their main concern is getting it right, no matter where the information came from. They don't see it as an issue.

 

The issue I see Kevin is if they are going to do that then they need to scrutinize each and every shot of each and every player in each and every round in zoom/slo-motion. Right now the rule is being applied selectively. Who knows how many other violations were lurking out there?

 

So, no moving violations can be punished until they all are? Try that out in court.

 

Surprised it took this long for this MOST specious argument to come forth. Possibly the WORST argument made by the "anti call in" crowd.

[KevCarter]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

I've met and spoken with many officials on the national level, and I've done a lot of officiating on the local level. When asked the question, every single one has said their main concern is getting it right, no matter where the information came from. They don't see it as an issue.

 

The issue I see Kevin is if they are going to do that then they need to scrutinize each and every shot of each and every player in each and every round in zoom/slo-motion. Right now the rule is being applied selectively. Who knows how many other violations were lurking out there?

 

I know you believe in what you post. You are anti USGA, I get that. Our opinions differ, not the first time and won't be the last.

[Sean2]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

I've met and spoken with many officials on the national level, and I've done a lot of officiating on the local level. When asked the question, every single one has said their main concern is getting it right, no matter where the information came from. They don't see it as an issue.

 

The issue I see Kevin is if they are going to do that then they need to scrutinize each and every shot of each and every player in each and every round in zoom/slo-motion. Right now the rule is being applied selectively. Who knows how many other violations were lurking out there?

 

I know you believe in what you post. You are anti USGA, I get that. Our opinions differ, not the first time and won't be the last.

 

I'm not anti-USGA so much as pro common sense. Hopefully these issues will be addressed sooner rather than later.

[DaveLeeNC]

Exactly! She moved her ball an inch, no closer to the hole! She should be banned for life!

 

Misplacing a ball by 1 inch out of carelessness is one thing. Misplacing the ball to dodge a spike mark that all the other golfers in the event would have putted through is a very different thing.

 

From the start of this I wondered if what Lexi did isn't really kind of standard practice out there. I am beginning to think that it is. I am an avid cyclist (as in bicycle) and this is beginning to sound like the Tour de France... "Sure it is illegal but everyone is doing it so ...".

 

dave

[ctmason_98]

I'm not sure we really ever got to this, and keeping in mind I'm agnostic about this whole issue (at least I think I am).

 

What harm is done to the competition, competitor or sport if it is "open season" on people reporting possible rules violations to the tournament committee? Is there harm?

[Golfnuck]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

I've met and spoken with many officials on the national level, and I've done a lot of officiating on the local level. When asked the question, every single one has said their main concern is getting it right, no matter where the information came from. They don't see it as an issue.

 

The issue I see Kevin is if they are going to do that then they need to scrutinize each and every shot of each and every player in each and every round in zoom/slo-motion. Right now the rule is being applied selectively. Who knows how many other violations were lurking out there?

 

Ok so what exactly is the right ruling.

 

You will know the rules better than I do.

 

Let's simply look at this issue at hand now.

 

What is the accuracy to which one has to replace the ball after it is marked.

 

1 centimeter, 1 millimeter, 1/100 of a milometer ????

 

I have seen in other post that it is as close as can be determinable to the naked eye.

 

But what is the measurement of that. What is a standard naked eye.

 

So please define what "getting it right" really means.

 

And another question from a rules neophyte.

 

I don't think that the rules of golf contemplated that someone can call in and have evidence of an infraction one or more day later to the competition.

 

I believe the rules of golf did not contemplate that there would be a high def camera following every shot of the leaders but no cameras on those way down the leader board.

 

I think that the harsh penalties of DQ ing (I know this is now changed) for signing a incorrect score card was because the sport required the competitor to self-govern themselves.

 

Today that is not the same landscape, at least when it comes to professional golf.

 

So I do not agree with your rules officials who see "getting it right" over rides all especially given that many of the rules of golf lacks an "absolute" definition.

[sui generis]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

I've met and spoken with many officials on the national level, and I've done a lot of officiating on the local level. When asked the question, every single one has said their main concern is getting it right, no matter where the information came from. They don't see it as an issue.

 

The issue I see Kevin is if they are going to do that then they need to scrutinize each and every shot of each and every player in each and every round in zoom/slo-motion. Right now the rule is being applied selectively. Who knows how many other violations were lurking out there?

 

I know you believe in what you post. You are anti USGA, I get that. Our opinions differ, not the first time and won't be the last.

 

I'm not anti-USGA so much as pro common sense. Hopefully these issues will be addressed sooner rather than later.

 

Sean, "common sense" is merely guessing. It's a smoke screen employed by those who don't know the Rules and those who cannot be bothered to figure out the correct answer. It's no way to run a railroad.

[hacker49]

So it exsists somewhere between exact and what Lexi did ?

. Grey grey grey ...that's the problem

 

I agree there should be no penalty.

 

Rule 16-1b. just states that a ball lifted for cleaning on the putting surface must first be marked, and then replaced. (Doesn't say "replaced exactly..." or provide any other qualifiers)

 

Sawgrass, anything specific in Decisions about proximity of replacement?

 

Please read D 18/4 for the concept. In part, it says:

 

"When the player's ball has left its original position and come to rest in another place by an amount that was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, a player's determination that the ball has not moved will be deemed to be conclusive, even if that determination is later shown to be incorrect through the use of sophisticated technology."

 

Just be reasonably careful and there's no problem. I don't think Lexi believes that she was, in fact, reasonably careful. (But I don't know that for sure.)

 

So do you think the officials contradicted the rules?

[rogolf]

I'm not sure we really ever got to this, and keeping in mind I'm agnostic about this whole issue (at least I think I am).

 

What harm is done to the competition, competitor or sport if it is "open season" on people reporting possible rules violations to the tournament committee? Is there harm?

 

In fact, the players, organizers and sponsors all want the competition to be played in accordance with the Rules. They are not in uproar when the Rules are correctly applied.

[Sawgrass]

How close is close enough for you? Reasonably discernible works for me.

 

 

So if reasonably discernible is ok, then not sure why this

isn't ok, especially when moving a mark from ones line will give more error than 1/3 of a ball.

The video you directed me to says that she "replaced the ball an inch closer to the hole." That my friend is easily discernible, and should be penalized. I'm sure that standing over my ball I can easily see a 1/4 inch variation.

 

Why all the upset?

[hacker49]

I think this discussion is starting to go as well as a Democrat and Republican discussing if Trump is doing a good job or if Hillary should have been President.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

How close is close enough for you? Reasonably discernible works for me.

 

 

So if reasonably discernible is ok, then not sure why this

isn't ok, especially when moving a mark from ones line will give more error than 1/3 of a ball.

The video you directed me to says that she "replaced the ball an inch closer to the hole." That my friend is easily discernible, and should be penalized. I'm sure that standing over my ball I can easily see a 1/4 inch variation.

 

Why all the upset?

Seems your being purposely obtuse as to not weaken your stance. The video at the point I posted (13 seconds), is where it's unzoomed and is what's relevant.

[Sawgrass]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

I've met and spoken with many officials on the national level, and I've done a lot of officiating on the local level. When asked the question, every single one has said their main concern is getting it right, no matter where the information came from. They don't see it as an issue.

 

The issue I see Kevin is if they are going to do that then they need to scrutinize each and every shot of each and every player in each and every round in zoom/slo-motion. Right now the rule is being applied selectively. Who knows how many other violations were lurking out there?

 

 

 

I don't think that the rules of golf contemplated that someone can call in and have evidence of an infraction one or more day later to the competition.

 

I believe the rules of golf did not contemplate that there would be a high def camera following every shot of the leaders but no cameras on those way down the leader board.

 

 

 

Your above beliefs are incorrect.

[Sawgrass]

How close is close enough for you? Reasonably discernible works for me.

 

 

So if reasonably discernible is ok, then not sure why this

isn't ok, especially when moving a mark from ones line will give more error than 1/3 of a ball.

The video you directed me to says that she "replaced the ball an inch closer to the hole." That my friend is easily discernible, and should be penalized. I'm sure that standing over my ball I can easily see a 1/4 inch variation.

 

Why all the upset?

Seems your being purposely obtuse as to not weaken your stance. The video at the point I posted (13 seconds), is where it's unzoomed and is what's relevant.

 

It seems you're being embarrassed by the video you posted.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

How close is close enough for you? Reasonably discernible works for me.

 

 

So if reasonably discernible is ok, then not sure why this

isn't ok, especially when moving a mark from ones line will give more error than 1/3 of a ball.

The video you directed me to says that she "replaced the ball an inch closer to the hole." That my friend is easily discernible, and should be penalized. I'm sure that standing over my ball I can easily see a 1/4 inch variation.

 

Why all the upset?

Seems your being purposely obtuse as to not weaken your stance. The video at the point I posted (13 seconds), is where it's unzoomed and is what's relevant.

 

It seems you're being embarrassed by the video you posted.

Why? I don't care about the video commentary that was made after zoomed analysis, what's relevant is the unzoomed portion. Get it?

[KevCarter]

Ok I have not read the entire thread so I apologize if this has been answered.

 

To those who know the rules far more than I do I ask -

 

Does the professional tours have to follow the USGA / R&A rules of golf?

 

Can the professional tours simply say the ruling by their OWN rules officials is final. NO OUTSIDE PERSONS CAN INFLUENCE OR CAUSE THE PGA/LPGA ETC. TO REVIEW ANY POSSIBLE RULES INFRACTIONS. Could they either 1) deviate from the USGA / R&A or 2) simply put in a local rule for that tournament.

 

Thank you for the assistance.

 

Golf is the only professional sport that lets an outside agency impact their competition.

 

Clearly the leaders of the various professional golf tours have to do something.

 

I would think this is a simple fix and no more call in issues.

 

I've met and spoken with many officials on the national level, and I've done a lot of officiating on the local level. When asked the question, every single one has said their main concern is getting it right, no matter where the information came from. They don't see it as an issue.

 

The issue I see Kevin is if they are going to do that then they need to scrutinize each and every shot of each and every player in each and every round in zoom/slo-motion. Right now the rule is being applied selectively. Who knows how many other violations were lurking out there?

 

Ok so what exactly is the right ruling.

 

You will know the rules better than I do.

 

Let's simply look at this issue at hand now.

 

What is the accuracy to which one has to replace the ball after it is marked.

 

1 centimeter, 1 millimeter, 1/100 of a milometer ????

 

I have seen in other post that it is as close as can be determinable to the naked eye.

 

But what is the measurement of that. What is a standard naked eye.

 

So please define what "getting it right" really means.

 

And another question from a rules neophyte.

 

I don't think that the rules of golf contemplated that someone can call in and have evidence of an infraction one or more day later to the competition.

 

I believe the rules of golf did not contemplate that there would be a high def camera following every shot of the leaders but no cameras on those way down the leader board.

 

I think that the harsh penalties of DQ ing (I know this is now changed) for signing a incorrect score card was because the sport required the competitor to self-govern themselves.

 

Today that is not the same landscape, at least when it comes to professional golf.

 

So I do not agree with your rules officials who see "getting it right" over rides all especially given that many of the rules of golf lacks an "absolute" definition.

 

It's all been posted many times in several threads on the same subject. I've made the points I wanted to make, and don't feel the need to repeat myself, or repeat what others have written. I hope you learn what you are after.

[ctmason_98]

Can we at least all agree we should be allowed to roll the ball in the fairway?

[Golfnuck]

Thank you kevcarter.

 

What I have learned in my brief visit here to the rules sections.

 

1. Golf rules officials are very passionate about their rules.

2. Current group of golf rules officials see "getting right" as the ultimate goal ........ period.

3. There will be no changes to the current rules as to the golf rules officials this is a non issue. At least till the USGA completes their major rules overhaul.

4. General golf viewers, many non golfers, 100% of my golf group at my club (well none of us know the rules anyways) and a good number of professional golfers see the absurdity of the current rules that allows for call in rulings and for penalties to be applied after a round is over.

 

This issue will continue to pop up over and over and over again and as kevcarter has pointed out to me "to the high level rules officials it is not an issue at all".

 

It is only an issue to us uneducated golfers.

 

I guess the professional golf tours are absolutely giddy over this mess as there is no such thing as bad advertising.

[DaveLeeNC]

 

Why? I don't care about the video commentary that was made after zoomed analysis, what's relevant is the unzoomed portion. Get it?

 

And what exactly is the relevance of what an SD resolution image shows from some undefined distance at some undefined magnification. It certainly doesn't match what a player sees, what someone near the player sees, what someone 50 feet away sees, etc.

 

So no - I don't get it

 

dave

[BlackDiamondPar5]

 

Why? I don't care about the video commentary that was made after zoomed analysis, what's relevant is the unzoomed portion. Get it?

 

And what exactly is the relevance of what an SD resolution image shows from some undefined distance at some undefined magnification. It certainly doesn't match what a player sees, what someone near the player sees, what someone 50 feet away sees, etc.

 

So no - I don't get it

 

dave

The point is no one on or near the green saw it. The only one that saw it was a person watching on HDTV with the ability to replay and zoom.

 

I also find it interesting that there was such a long delay from the time they notified the LPGA. Perhaps they were waiting until lexi signed her card for maximum penalty? Maybe this person has an ax to grind with her and is watching her closely every time she plays. Why didn't anyone else see it?

[DaveLeeNC]

I'm not sure we really ever got to this, and keeping in mind I'm agnostic about this whole issue (at least I think I am).

 

What harm is done to the competition, competitor or sport if it is "open season" on people reporting possible rules violations to the tournament committee? Is there harm?

 

In fact, the players, organizers and sponsors all want the competition to be played in accordance with the Rules. They are not in uproar when the Rules are correctly applied.

 

In this case it appears that the players are in a bit of an uproar over this one. I find that quite interesting. It is easy to assign this to their understandable reaction to 'television viewer referee'ing' (or at least reportting), but I wonder if it isn't really that what we saw is accepted practice on the major tours.

 

dave

[Sawgrass]

How close is close enough for you? Reasonably discernible works for me.

 

 

So if reasonably discernible is ok, then not sure why this

isn't ok, especially when moving a mark from ones line will give more error than 1/3 of a ball.

The video you directed me to says that she "replaced the ball an inch closer to the hole." That my friend is easily discernible, and should be penalized. I'm sure that standing over my ball I can easily see a 1/4 inch variation.

 

Why all the upset?

Seems your being purposely obtuse as to not weaken your stance. The video at the point I posted (13 seconds), is where it's unzoomed and is what's relevant.

 

It seems you're being embarrassed by the video you posted.

Why? I don't care about the video commentary that was made after zoomed analysis, what's relevant is the unzoomed portion. Get it?

You don't care about the part of the video that proves you wrong about the difference in the ball's position being reasonably discernible? I wonder why you feel that way?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

 

You don't care about the part of the video that proves you wrong about the difference in the ball's position being reasonably discernible? I wonder why you feel that way?

So are you saying it's reasonably discernible unzoomed at normal playback speed?

[chris975d]

I'm not sure we really ever got to this, and keeping in mind I'm agnostic about this whole issue (at least I think I am).

 

What harm is done to the competition, competitor or sport if it is "open season" on people reporting possible rules violations to the tournament committee? Is there harm?

 

In fact, the players, organizers and sponsors all want the competition to be played in accordance with the Rules. They are not in uproar when the Rules are correctly applied.

 

In this case it appears that the players are in a bit of an uproar over this one. I find that quite interesting. It is easy to assign this to their understandable reaction to 'television viewer referee'ing' (or at least reportting), but I wonder if it isn't really that what we saw is accepted practice on the major tours.

 

dave

 

I think Phil acknowledged pretty well that's it's widely accepted practice. He stated that some golfers move their ball 2-3 inches when replacing. And that the Tours need to go to those players and address it and fix it from within basically, instead of penalizing players for it.

[sui generis]

You don't care about the part of the video that proves you wrong about the difference in the ball's position being reasonably discernible? I wonder why you feel that way?

So are you saying it's reasonably discernible unzoomed at normal playback speed?

 

The Decision suggests that it's the player's naked eye which is responsible for the "discerning." So, yes in a big way.

 

ps Southern Tier IPA is one of the great ones. It's up there with Stone and my Asheville fav, Green Man.