Lexi Thompson ANA

[Soloman1]

She did NOT place the coin behind the ball. She placed the coin on the left side of the ball, then replaced the ball on the left side of the coin. That was definitely more than a ball diameter.

 

Closer to the hole is not the question. That was a blatant and obvious move to change her line to the hole.

 

Bob Toski was suspended from the tour for that, until Deane Beman reinstated him after the tour players voted (not unanimously) to let him back in.

 

Players do not call intentional penalties on themselves, so others have to. Players will call unintentional penalties.

 

If that obvious marking mistake was unintentional, she should have informed her playing partner and replaced the ball to the proper place and incurred no penalty whatsoever.

[sui generis]

Makes the USGA look like it is run by whomever has the guts to take the lead and right now, there is no leadership. To allow an outside entity decide a ruling after the fact just shows that they do not need any rules officials walking the grounds and following the players. Why in the world would they let a person watching at home call in and point out an infraction that they themselves did not catch. And one point to add is the fact that not every player is followed and showed on television unless you are up in the leader board. So why is it that the USGA cannot get this right. I just hope somebody in leadership actually steps up and fixes this mess.

 

For the umpteenth time, this was NOT a USGA event.

 

This was the LPGA Tour, a commercial enterprise masquerading as a 501c(3). It's a TV reality show whose sole reason for existence is to sell things like automobiles made in Korea and stuff to shave ladies legs with. (The PGA Tour is a similar outfit except they advertise Viagra and Buicks.)

[HitEmTrue]

Maybe we define "diameter" differently. That ball was not moved the diameter of a ball. Sorry.

 

Well, watching the video I really thought it moved more toward the right.

 

I'm gonna assume she kept it a similar distance from the marker...so it didn't move straight toward the right. The distance would be a little larger than it appears in this overlay. But I agree, less than diameter of ball.

 

 

[EmperorPenguin]

As a side note, this whole controversy takes me back over twenty years ago when Jarmo Sandelin accused Mark O'Meara of stealing an inch or so when he replaced his ball. It was a he-said-he-said case, and as a result Mark O'Meara for a little while had the moniker Mark-it-nearer.

[HighSpeedScene]

As I noted in the DJ fiasco, either they all have HD cameras on them 100% of the time, or none of them do. You can not police 1/8th of the field with ticky-tack junk like this, while allowing 7/8ths to do these things with no repercussions.

 

She did not believe it moved, no one around her accused her of moving it, and no one was aware of it UNTIL technology was introduced. Then it became "clear" that it should have been discernible. Is that clause, "should have been discernible" in the rule book anywhere? No it isn't.

 

Not only that, but those lazy bastards allow the weather to change sometimes in the afternoon.

 

I mean, c'mon, fair is fair. The least they could do is control the weather. And ensure that the exact same number of spectators are standing in the exact same spot on each hole for each player, and making the same noise at the same time for each player, and, really, have you noticed that some of the wives seem more likely to please their man pre and post round, and what of this tragic unfairness of different places being paid different amounts in prize money?

 

I bet there are NO players that would trade the scrutiny for not being on camera/in contention. That kind of says it all doesnt it?

[HighSpeedScene]

I desperately hope I don't post anymore on this subject, the pitchforks and knee-jerk reactions are at the same time entertaining and dismally familiar to our human condition.

 

One thing we should note: the pga tour, lpga tour, etc, could easily put a stop to the call-ins. They already promulgate rules that have nothing to do with the ROG. So why haven't they? Simple - they recognize the alternative is WAY worse. Letting an infraction go, no matter how discovered, brings the whole thing into question. You think they want the NBA rumors about preordained postseason series winners to proliferate on their tours? The draft lottery rumors? Once it looks like see people can cheat and get away with it, or worse, PROMOTE getting over on the field if you think you can away with it, it's game over and Vince McMahon will be the new commissioner of the tour.

 

They would much rather suffer your slings and arrows on the internet and sports talk shows than make this change. It's harmful to the PRODUCT. And they have the foresight to not get caught up in the rhetoric and have the same kind of knee jerk reaction we see here...And thank goodness for that, IMO

 

 

[Shilgy]

If this kind of thing is going to continue, then the Tours must scrutinize each and every shot of each and every player during each and every round. Penalties galore...for example, a player sets up to his/her ball in the rough. If you zoom in and look at it in super slo-motion you will notice the ball moved a micrometer, maybe even two.

 

I am waiting for the USGA to announce a zoom feature that can scrutinize the ball at the molecular level. "The ball moved two microns...two stroke penalty."

Except the examples you're giving would not be penalties as they are not discernable with the naked eye. If they can only be seen with the HD zoom the player would be absolved.

[hacker49]

Yet, no one did -- not the player or anyone else using the naked eye. Sorry. It's discernible with technology only. Not a single person reported from the green or crowd. Sole source of the report: TV viewer call-in.

 

Absolutely. This is my problem with the whole thing. Maybe I should go back and watch replays of every match Tiger played. Maybe I can zoom in and find he made a violation and write the PGA to notify them of such infraction so they can "correct" the missed violation.

[Augster]

Just watched the video a few more times. Her reaction while talking to the refs isn't believable. I'm sorry. If you were blindsided with two officials walking with you claiming you incorrectly marked the previous day and were going to assess a 4-stroke penalty, I'd think there'd be a little bit more anger. A little bit more, "What'chu talkin' bout Willis?!"

 

She says she didn't do it intentionally. The ref said they didn't think she did it intentionally. If indeed she didn't do it intentionally, HOW OFTEN DOES SHE MARK LIKE THAT?

 

She either doesn't understand marking rules, and nearly always marks incorrectly, or she intentionally marked incorrectly just that one time and got caught. I'm not buying the first option. She's a professional. She'd have to know by now how to mark a ball correctly. Every single time.

 

Not that I had any respect for Goydos, but to say that others mark that poorly on a regular basis is ridiculous. How many hundreds of rounds of golf have I watched on TV and have never seen a bad mark? There have been cameras on the final groups for a long time.

 

Maybe it's time to go back to continuous putting if these pros are struggling to replace their ball under pressure. Like on a 1-foot tap in. On the 17th hole. On a Saturday. Does it get any more pressurized than that?

[wadesworld]

I can guaranty you have violated the rules every single time you put down a ball marker and picked up your ball.

 

Really? Where does it say in the rules the ball must be replaced to the millimeter in the same spot? It doesn't. It says the ball must be replaced. The standard gives golfers exactly what they clamor for. That is, a little leeway. Which means, absent evidence a ball was not properly replaced, a rules official will assume the player made a good faith effort to put the ball back in the same spot.

 

However, when evidence EXISTS that a player replaced a ball incorrectly, the player is known to have played from a wrong place.

[hacker49]

The point that you are missing is that players are generally counted on to not violate the Rules, and in addition to their integrity, the possibility that anyone might point out a violation helps keep them honest. When the time cut off should be for reporting a possible violation is reasonably debatable. But this sort of thing happens what, two times a year? The system works pretty well as is. (Except for all the typing I have to do every time a TV viewer gets castigated for calling a questionable situation in.)

 

Once again I know I am not missing the point. You don't know me and therefore can't hypothesize what I am thinking.

 

I have read multiple posts of yours where you convey in your post (at least how it comes across to me) that you are the rules guru and we should all be focused on the rules violation. I don't think many are questioning the violation. What we are debating is the allowance of a viewer to notify the officials of a violation and when it can be enforced if allowed.

 

I have a question for you. If I am watching a NBA game and I see a foul in the first quarter do you think I should be able to notify the league about it so that they can enforce the foul in the fourth quarter? What about if it is the playoffs and I don't notify them until the next game?

 

Disclaimer: I had to do lots of self editing before submitting this post as to try and not come off as offensive or as taking your post in response to mine as personal and offensive. Not sure how well I have done.

[jslane57]

When I watched the video over, I was surprised she moved the ball so much. And it was not like she had to wait between putts. It can be read as her marking from the side in order to move it without anyone knowing the better. She probably does it like that often to avoid other's lines and such, which is cool. No other players protested. Nor did anyone who was there. The TV ref is so wrong! But if that is the way it is, the extra 2 strokes has got to go away. Signing an incorrect scorecard is when a math error happens, and/or you knowingly cheated. These things didn't happen...

[HitEmTrue]

Signing an incorrect scorecard is when a math error happens

 

For what it's worth, players don't have to add up their scores.

 

[Hardluckster]

The point that you are missing is that players are generally counted on to not violate the Rules, and in addition to their integrity, the possibility that anyone might point out a violation helps keep them honest. When the time cut off should be for reporting a possible violation is reasonably debatable. But this sort of thing happens what, two times a year? The system works pretty well as is. (Except for all the typing I have to do every time a TV viewer gets castigated for calling a questionable situation in.)

 

Once again I know I am not missing the point. You don't know me and therefore can't hypothesize what I am thinking.

 

I have read multiple posts of yours where you convey in your post (at least how it comes across to me) that you are the rules guru and we should all be focused on the rules violation. I don't think many are questioning the violation. What we are debating is the allowance of a viewer to notify the officials of a violation and when it can be enforced if allowed.

 

I have a question for you. If I am watching a NBA game and I see a foul in the first quarter do you think I should be able to notify the league about it so that they can enforce the foul in the fourth quarter? What about if it is the playoffs and I don't notify them until the next game?

 

Disclaimer: I had to do lots of self editing before submitting this post as to try and not come off as offensive or as taking your post in response to mine as personal and offensive. Not sure how well I have done.

 

I'm definitely no rules guru, but I'll take a stab at this. Quite simply, the RoG allow input from outside agencies. The rules of basketball do not.

[HighSpeedScene]

When I watched the video over, I was surprised she moved the ball so much. And it was not like she had to wait between putts. It can be read as her marking from the side in order to move it without anyone knowing the better. She probably does it like that often to avoid other's lines and such, which is cool. No other players protested. Nor did anyone who was there. The TV ref is so wrong! But if that is the way it is, the extra 2 strokes has got to go away. Signing an incorrect scorecard is when a math error happens, and/or you knowingly cheated. These things didn't happen...

 

You clearly have not played much competitively, which is fine, but you should know you are completely wrong about signing an incorrect scorecard.

[HighSpeedScene]

I can guaranty you have violated the rules every single time you put down a ball marker and picked up your ball.

 

Really? Where does it say in the rules the ball must be replaced to the millimeter in the same spot? It doesn't. It says the ball must be replaced. The standard gives golfers exactly what they clamor for. That is, a little leeway. Which means, absent evidence a ball was not properly replaced, a rules official will assume the player made a good faith effort to put the ball back in the same spot.

 

However, when evidence EXISTS that a player replaced a ball incorrectly, the player is known to have played from a wrong place.

 

See how easy it is when you actually know the rules instead of throwing gas on them ignorantly?

[hacker49]

How about if the PGA/LPGA required the use of a ball mark with a notch in it (like the one in the picture)? The ball could only be marked in the notch. That way marking it anywhere else would be an obvious violation.

 

Edited picture to give a better view of the whole marker.

[jslane57]

Signing an incorrect scorecard is when a math error happens

 

For what it's worth, players don't have to add up their scores.

Correct. Doesn't keep errors from happening though. Or from folks believing their marker did it right when their [the markers] math error matches what you know you shot...

[EmperorPenguin]

Ed Mate from the Colorado Golf Association posted this video to show very clearly how Lexi tried to cheat.

 

 

This seems either very careless or blatantly cheating. Bring back the DQ rule!

[HitEmTrue]

Signing an incorrect scorecard is when a math error happens

 

For what it's worth, players don't have to add up their scores.

Correct. Doesn't keep errors from happening though. Or from folks believing their marker did it right when their [the markers] math error matches what you know you shot...

 

What math error? There is no penalty (or DQ) for adding up the scores incorrectly.

 

Do you mean on an individual hole?

 

[jslane57]

Signing an incorrect scorecard is when a math error happens

 

For what it's worth, players don't have to add up their scores.

Correct. Doesn't keep errors from happening though. Or from folks believing their marker did it right when their [the markers] math error matches what you know you shot...

 

What math error? There is no penalty (or DQ) for adding up the scores incorrectly.

 

Do you mean on an individual hole?

Way off topic here. If you believe your marker who wrote the wrong score down, and added wrong, it's a math error. A stupid one. The point is, the additional 2 strokes is BS as there was no visible error on the score card or called penalty anywhere at the time...

[HighSpeedScene]

The point that you are missing is that players are generally counted on to not violate the Rules, and in addition to their integrity, the possibility that anyone might point out a violation helps keep them honest. When the time cut off should be for reporting a possible violation is reasonably debatable. But this sort of thing happens what, two times a year? The system works pretty well as is. (Except for all the typing I have to do every time a TV viewer gets castigated for calling a questionable situation in.)

 

Once again I know I am not missing the point. You don't know me and therefore can't hypothesize what I am thinking.

 

I have read multiple posts of yours where you convey in your post (at least how it comes across to me) that you are the rules guru and we should all be focused on the rules violation. I don't think many are questioning the violation. What we are debating is the allowance of a viewer to notify the officials of a violation and when it can be enforced if allowed.

 

I have a question for you. If I am watching a NBA game and I see a foul in the first quarter do you think I should be able to notify the league about it so that they can enforce the foul in the fourth quarter? What about if it is the playoffs and I don't notify them until the next game?

 

Disclaimer: I had to do lots of self editing before submitting this post as to try and not come off as offensive or as taking your post in response to mine as personal and offensive. Not sure how well I have done.

 

I'm definitely no rules guru, but I'll take a stab at this. Quite simply, the RoG allow input from outside agencies. The rules of basketball do not.

 

Such a tired argument - do the rules of ANY other sport call for the players to police themselves to any degree? I can just picture LeBron stopping play after a step-back jumper and calling the ref over to explain that he created space by pushing off, so could he kindly call off that bucket?

 

The comparisons used to other sports here are the refuge of those without sufficient knowledge of why the rules are the way they are - not that I'm saying they are perfect, they can't be, but I for one and really glad that golf is not like the NBA, NFL, or NHL.

 

Apples and bananas folks. Come up with a different argument, because that one is a sieve.

[HighSpeedScene]

Signing an incorrect scorecard is when a math error happens

 

For what it's worth, players don't have to add up their scores.

Correct. Doesn't keep errors from happening though. Or from folks believing their marker did it right when their [the markers] math error matches what you know you shot...

 

What math error? There is no penalty (or DQ) for adding up the scores incorrectly.

 

Do you mean on an individual hole?

Way off topic here. If you believe your marker who wrote the wrong score down, and added wrong, it's a math error. A stupid one. The point is, the additional 2 strokes is BS as there was no visible error on the score card or called penalty anywhere at the time...

 

I think counting is a fair bit "less" that what almost anyone would consider "math" in the context in which you used it.

[jslane57]

The point that you are missing is that players are generally counted on to not violate the Rules, and in addition to their integrity, the possibility that anyone might point out a violation helps keep them honest. When the time cut off should be for reporting a possible violation is reasonably debatable. But this sort of thing happens what, two times a year? The system works pretty well as is. (Except for all the typing I have to do every time a TV viewer gets castigated for calling a questionable situation in.)

 

Once again I know I am not missing the point. You don't know me and therefore can't hypothesize what I am thinking.

 

I have read multiple posts of yours where you convey in your post (at least how it comes across to me) that you are the rules guru and we should all be focused on the rules violation. I don't think many are questioning the violation. What we are debating is the allowance of a viewer to notify the officials of a violation and when it can be enforced if allowed.

 

I have a question for you. If I am watching a NBA game and I see a foul in the first quarter do you think I should be able to notify the league about it so that they can enforce the foul in the fourth quarter? What about if it is the playoffs and I don't notify them until the next game?

 

Disclaimer: I had to do lots of self editing before submitting this post as to try and not come off as offensive or as taking your post in response to mine as personal and offensive. Not sure how well I have done.

 

I'm definitely no rules guru, but I'll take a stab at this. Quite simply, the RoG allow input from outside agencies. The rules of basketball do not.

 

Such a tired argument - do the rules of ANY other sport call for the players to police themselves to any degree? I can just picture LeBron stopping play after a step-back jumper and calling the ref over to explain that he created space by pushing off, so could he kindly call off that bucket?

 

The comparisons used to other sports here are the refuge of those without sufficient knowledge of why the rules are the way they are - not that I'm saying they are perfect, they can't be, but I for one and really glad that golf is not like the NBA, NFL, or NHL.

 

Apples and bananas folks. Come up with a different argument, because that one is a sieve.

Even with a referee standing with DJ, the video later changed things. Maybe the only solution in today's world is to have video rules officials paying attention. But there has to be a cut off point. Like once the card is signed. Or is it viable to go back and watch all the old tournaments and make changes based on video?

[bladehunter]

Makes the USGA look like it is run by whomever has the guts to take the lead and right now, there is no leadership. To allow an outside entity decide a ruling after the fact just shows that they do not need any rules officials walking the grounds and following the players. Why in the world would they let a person watching at home call in and point out an infraction that they themselves did not catch. And one point to add is the fact that not every player is followed and showed on television unless you are up in the leader board. So why is it that the USGA cannot get this right. I just hope somebody in leadership actually steps up and fixes this mess.

 

For the umpteenth time, this was NOT a USGA event.

 

This was the LPGA Tour, a commercial enterprise masquerading as a 501c(3). It's a TV reality show whose sole reason for existence is to sell things like automobiles made in Korea and stuff to shave ladies legs with. (The PGA Tour is a similar outfit except they advertise Viagra and Buicks.)

 

 

 

yes but doesnt the usga and Rand A have the ability to handle or change the rules for moving balls on the green and for these armchair refs? and by armchair refs i mean anyone not on that tournaments commitee....These silly "incidents" are by far the worst thing for the game right now ... . They claim to be working on the rules... why does it take 5 years ? they could have enacted the proposed rules revolving around the green before this season.... after the DJ gaffe last year you would think they would be in a hurry to get their bacon out of the fryer.

[Shilgy]

There is a cut off point. It is the end of the competition. You cannot go back to old tourneys and get results changed. The one reason to make it by the end of the round being played is that calling in today for an incident from Sunday would be to no avail as the event is finished.

[HighSpeedScene]

The point that you are missing is that players are generally counted on to not violate the Rules, and in addition to their integrity, the possibility that anyone might point out a violation helps keep them honest. When the time cut off should be for reporting a possible violation is reasonably debatable. But this sort of thing happens what, two times a year? The system works pretty well as is. (Except for all the typing I have to do every time a TV viewer gets castigated for calling a questionable situation in.)

 

Once again I know I am not missing the point. You don't know me and therefore can't hypothesize what I am thinking.

 

I have read multiple posts of yours where you convey in your post (at least how it comes across to me) that you are the rules guru and we should all be focused on the rules violation. I don't think many are questioning the violation. What we are debating is the allowance of a viewer to notify the officials of a violation and when it can be enforced if allowed.

 

I have a question for you. If I am watching a NBA game and I see a foul in the first quarter do you think I should be able to notify the league about it so that they can enforce the foul in the fourth quarter? What about if it is the playoffs and I don't notify them until the next game?

 

Disclaimer: I had to do lots of self editing before submitting this post as to try and not come off as offensive or as taking your post in response to mine as personal and offensive. Not sure how well I have done.

 

I'm definitely no rules guru, but I'll take a stab at this. Quite simply, the RoG allow input from outside agencies. The rules of basketball do not.

 

Such a tired argument - do the rules of ANY other sport call for the players to police themselves to any degree? I can just picture LeBron stopping play after a step-back jumper and calling the ref over to explain that he created space by pushing off, so could he kindly call off that bucket?

 

The comparisons used to other sports here are the refuge of those without sufficient knowledge of why the rules are the way they are - not that I'm saying they are perfect, they can't be, but I for one and really glad that golf is not like the NBA, NFL, or NHL.

 

Apples and bananas folks. Come up with a different argument, because that one is a sieve.

Even with a referee standing with DJ, the video later changed things. Maybe the only solution in today's world is to have video rules officials paying attention. But there has to be a cut off point. Like once the card is signed. Or is it viable to go back and watch all the old tournaments and make changes based on video?

 

The tours are free to promulgate such rules. They don't because it would harm the product. To your last question, no, the rules of G do not allow changes/enforcements after the close of competition. Which is why the tours want to get it right before the close. Imagine a win that really wasn't because the tour ignored an obvious infraction? How damaging would THAT be?

[jslane57]

There is a cut off point. It is the end of the competition. You cannot go back to old tourneys and get results changed. The one reason to make it by the end of the round being played is that calling in today for an incident from Sunday would be to no avail as the event is finished.

This is a loose definition that may be changed if the trend of changing things after the fact (round, etc.) becomes norm. Cheating during competition is cheating. Look what happened to Lance Armstrong. The competition was over wasn't it?

[bladehunter]

Ed Mate from the Colorado Golf Association posted this video to show very clearly how Lexi tried to cheat.

 

 

This seems either very careless or blatantly cheating. Bring back the DQ rule!

 

 

im going to get away from this topic as its really hard to stay calm.... But if you think anyone would walk up to a ball from the side that fast and mark then plop a ball down to tap it in and be able to include calculated cheating ....well i wont say what i think... easily the most unfair accusation ive ever heard on this site... and ive heard some doosies.. she made a bone head move.. end of story ... she simply came from the side to stay out of the othe rplayers line and to finish up... you guys act as if she was caught with a couple illegal wedges and some chapstick on her driver... good lord

[HighSpeedScene]

As a side note, I have to compliment the denizens of this sub-folder. Nice to have actual discussions without dozens contributing the genius of "this is total BS and I think we should find the guy that emailed and ruin his life!!!!!"

 

So, thank you.