Lexi Thompson ANA

[Noles]

Sorry gents, they got the ruling right. That is some straight up Elliot Saltman BS right there. She didn't accidentally move that ball. She intentionally did it. Weak sauce on her part.

 

I miss the DQ penalty already.

 

Just another cheat in the "self-policing" sport of golf. Unfortunately we need to have cameras on these "self-policing" players or they will pull BS like this.

 

I'm hoping she'll learn a lesson from this, AFTER they suspend her for a while.

 

Play the game.

 

And what is the alternative to not allowing call ins? Just letting these finks cheat, in plain view, on TV with a replay that cycles over and over? And what of the players that finish behind the player that is caught on camera flat out cheating, as in this very case, but wins because no penalties are assessed?

 

Bring back the DQ I say. This wasn't a case where a high speed camera saw 2 grains of sand move on a backswing that couldn't be felt. This was a deliberate movement of the ball by a player to play from a different place. A wrong place. She deliberately played from a wrong place, got away with it, and signed an incorrect card.

 

She knows what she did. Suspend her.

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. She was standing to the side and was careless. No way that was intentional.

[Noles]

How can anyone expect the Rules to allow you to replace your ball in a place other than from where it was lifted?

I don't think that is the common argument here. What is putting a sour taste in people's mouths is the way it was found out and how late the penalty was assessed.

[DaveLeeNC]

My best judgment (based on what I saw) is that this was deliberate. The entire path of the ball from 'down to down' was MAYBE 4 inches and the process took maybe 2 seconds and was continuous. If this was carelessness it would seem to me to be sloppy in the extreme (I mean REALLY extreme). And if the LPGA players feel that this is unfair to Lexi, my best guess (and it is a guess) is that it is because this is more common than we think.

 

OTOH, it somehow seems to me that a competition should be allowed to run such that "the scores are what the scores are" at the beginning of the next round. Players should know if they are 5 strokes behind or 1 stroke behind before they tee off in their next round. Kind of like scores are certainly final at the end of a competition, regardless of what else you learn.

 

dave

[EmperorPenguin]

The video evidence shows very clearly that Lexi replaced her ball 2-3 millimeters ahead of where she marked it, so there is no doubt in my mind that she played her next stroke from the wrong place. The ball must be placed exactly where it was prior to lifting, and by that I mean on the exact micrometer where the ball sat. Two-stroke penalty no doubt. With new HD technology we can zoom in to see right down to 1 mm where the ball is placed.

 

However, my doubt was why was she not disqualified for signing an incorrect scorecard. Has the Rules changed so there is no more DQ if players sign an incorrect scorecard? The rule I have always known is if you sign for a score that is lower than actual on a single hole you are DQ, but no DQ if you sign for a score higher than actual, as my buddy Roberto will attest.

[krtgolfing]

We are talking about 2-3 millimeters.. Really?? This is why the USGA/ LPGA/ PGA is a joke. Wonder why golf places are closing down.

[Sawgrass]

I watch almost every golf tournament being old men, guys, or women and this is the first time I have ever felt ashamed for the game and the rules of the game. There is no way one should be able to add strokes to another's score a day after.

 

 

This is ridiculous. What other sport allows fans to point out rules violations to the officials? They have multiple officials, marshals and volunteers out on the course. If none of them notice a violation then there shouldn't be any call.

 

To you and the several others here who hold this point of view, you are missing huge implications. A part of golf (which I cherish) is the obligation players have to uphold the Rules themselves. It's not only impractical to have refs everywhere, but if you change things so that the only infractions which will be penalized are the infractions immediately noticed, you'll inherently change the nature of the game to one where players are rewarded for fooling refs. There are enough games like that around, leave ours be.

 

TV watchers calling things in may be unpleasant to some, particularly when a violation was indeed unintentional, but it helps keeps things square. The way to protect one's self from being penalized is to avoid infractions. The fact that something like this happens so infrequently is evidence that things work well already. And to those who think that microscopic movements happen all the time and are undetected, consider this fairly recent improvement to the Rules:

 

18/4

 

Television Evidence Shows Ball at Rest Changed Position But by Amount Not Reasonably Discernible to Naked Eye

 

Q.A player addresses his ball. He observes a slight motion of the ball but believes that it has only oscillated and has not left its original position. He therefore plays the ball as it lies. Later, the Committee becomes aware from television evidence that the ball had in fact left its position and come to rest in another place, although that change of position was such that it was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time of the incident. What is the ruling?

 

A.The ball is deemed not to have moved and therefore there is no penalty under Rule 18-2. The Definition of "Moved" - when a ball "leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place" - does not contemplate movements of the ball that are only discernible through the use of high definition television or any other form of sophisticated technology.

 

When determining whether or not his ball at rest has moved, a player must make that judgment based on all the information readily available to him at the time, so that he can determine whether the ball must be replaced under Rule 18-2 or another applicable Rule. When the player's ball has left its original position and come to rest in another place by an amount that was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, a player's determination that the ball has not moved will be deemed to be conclusive, even if that determination is later shown to be incorrect through the use of sophisticated technology.

 

On the other hand, if the Committee determines, based on all of the evidence it has available, that the ball changed its position by an amount that was reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, the ball is deemed to have moved. As the player did not replace the ball, he incurs a penalty under the applicable Rule and Rule 20-7c for playing from a wrong place.

 

These principles apply to any review of technological evidence by the Committee, whether before the player makes his next stroke or any time thereafter. These principles also apply in a situation in which the player made no determination whether or not his ball at rest moved (e.g., because he had walked away from his ball after addressing it, was not looking at his ball, or otherwise did not observe any motion of the ball or have any reason to believe that his ball might have moved).

 

Before determining whether his ball has moved, it is advisable for the player to obtain information from nearby witnesses to the incident and to seek guidance from a referee if one is immediately available. (Revised)

[Sawgrass]

The video evidence shows very clearly that Lexi replaced her ball 2-3 millimeters ahead of where she marked it, so there is no doubt in my mind that she played her next stroke from the wrong place. The ball must be placed exactly where it was prior to lifting, and by that I mean on the exact micrometer where the ball sat. Two-stroke penalty no doubt. With new HD technology we can zoom in to see right down to 1 mm where the ball is placed.

 

However, my doubt was why was she not disqualified for signing an incorrect scorecard. Has the Rules changed so there is no more DQ if players sign an incorrect scorecard? The rule I have always known is if you sign for a score that is lower than actual on a single hole you are DQ, but no DQ if you sign for a score higher than actual, as my buddy Roberto will attest.

 

New (2016) Rule 6-6 d adds this:

 

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d. This Exception does not apply when the applicable penalty is disqualification from the competition.

[TheCityGame]

We are talking about 2-3 millimeters.. Really?? This is why the USGA/ LPGA/ PGA is a joke. Wonder why golf places are closing down.

No. It was closer to 2 inches than 2 mm.

 

When she put her mark down, it was completely obscured by the ball from the angle of the camera. She picked up the ball, and put it down with the mark completely visible. She shifted the ball around the perimeter of a mark that looked to be about the size of a half dollar.

 

And, he didn't even rotate the ball to line it up, or clean it, or anything. She literally put the mark down, moved the ball, and then picked the mark up.

[DaveLeeNC]

We are talking about 2-3 millimeters.. Really?? This is why the USGA/ LPGA/ PGA is a joke. Wonder why golf places are closing down.

 

I would judge that it was really in the 10 to 13mm range (maybe 1/3 ball width).

 

dave

[Ri_Redneck]

Sorry gents, they got the ruling right. That is some straight up Elliot Saltman BS right there. She didn't accidentally move that ball. She intentionally did it. Weak sauce on her part.

 

I miss the DQ penalty already.

 

Just another cheat in the "self-policing" sport of golf. Unfortunately we need to have cameras on these "self-policing" players or they will pull BS like this.

 

I'm hoping she'll learn a lesson from this, AFTER they suspend her for a while.

 

Play the game.

 

And what is the alternative to not allowing call ins? Just letting these finks cheat, in plain view, on TV with a replay that cycles over and over? And what of the players that finish behind the player that is caught on camera flat out cheating, as in this very case, but wins because no penalties are assessed?

 

Bring back the DQ I say. This wasn't a case where a high speed camera saw 2 grains of sand move on a backswing that couldn't be felt. This was a deliberate movement of the ball by a player to play from a different place. A wrong place. She deliberately played from a wrong place, got away with it, and signed an incorrect card.

 

She knows what she did. Suspend her.

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. She was standing to the side and was careless. No way that was intentional.

 

TOTALLY DISAGREE! We've all marked the ball standing to the side and it ain't difficult to put the friggin marker in the right place. I could see it happening if she had tossed the ball to her caddie for cleaning and looked at the putt from a couple of different angles before replacing the ball, but not the way it happened.

 

While I agree that ANY infraction should only be called the day it took place, I CAN NOT agree that this was accidental. Lexi is a PRO, she does this for a living. The rules have been imprinted in her brain. Precision is a way of life for these players. I watched the video multiple times and have no doubt in my mind.

.

She missed the put leaving a tap in.

 

She walked up to the ball as if she were going to simply tap it in.

 

She stops and looks intently at the ball/ground.

 

She grabs the marker from her hat and drops it NO WHERE NEAR directly opposite the hole (I've seen 10 yr olds do a better job marking).

 

She lifts the ball ONLY A FEW INCHES from the ground, rotates it slightly and then places it a good inch closer to her (to the left looking at the hole), sideways to the hole as if she didn't want to putt over something that was in the way. Not a few MMs as some think. Go back and watch it. The marker was not visible when she picked the ball up and was completely visible when she sat it down. I have a ton of those markers and they are 1" wide.

 

WTF!! If that was carelessness, then she has no business playing pro golf! In this day, when every sporting event is under a microscope, who would think they could get away with that? That's the kind of crap you see from the jerks in the money games at the local club. Yeah, the ones that are pointed out in this very forum multiple times each year and criticized by all of us. The one we call low-lifes and cheaters. There's no place for that in Pro Golf IMHO.

 

I honestly don't see how it wasn't pointed out immediately by the commentators during real-time broadcast. This persons email should have not even mattered because it should have been pointed out when it happened. Regardless, she is fortunate the rule was changed a few years back or she would have been DQ'd instead of still having a chance to win.

 

Rant over.

 

BT

[cvhookem63]

If she had picked the ball up, put it in her pocket, stepped back to get her line, put the ball back down (in the same spot she was penalized for), and putted out - it would have been a non issue because the cameras would have jumped around and come back to it. That happens every time a ball is marked on the green. The coin is round - how are you going to guarantee you put the ball back in the exact spot it came from?

[TheCityGame]

If she had picked the ball up, put it in her pocket, stepped back to get her line, put the ball back down (in the same spot she was penalized for), and putted out - it would have been a non issue because the cameras would have jumped around and come back to it. That happens every time a ball is marked on the green. The coin is round - how are you going to guarantee you put the ball back in the exact spot it came from?

The coin is round. So's a clock. I can still tell the difference between 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock.

 

She marked it at 9, put it back at 6. With 6 being "towards the hole".

[DaveLeeNC]

When the ball was picked up the left edge of the ball was basically inline with the left edge of the coin. The image below shows the final position of the ball WRT to the coin.The ball has moved close to a 'coin width' (looked like maybe a US quarter sized thing).

 

dave

[cvhookem63]

If she had picked the ball up, put it in her pocket, stepped back to get her line, put the ball back down (in the same spot she was penalized for), and putted out - it would have been a non issue because the cameras would have jumped around and come back to it. That happens every time a ball is marked on the green. The coin is round - how are you going to guarantee you put the ball back in the exact spot it came from?

The coin is round. So's a clock. I can still tell the difference between 6 o'clock and 9 o'clock.

 

She marked it at 9, put it back at 6. With 6 being "towards the hole".

 

I'm not arguing that she did not break the rules of golf by the letter of the law. I was just saying that happens regularly throughout tournament play - especially when a ball is marked from the side to quickly get out of someone's line, removed, cleaned, walked around with, and replaced. There just aren't typically fixed cameras focused on every player's ball marking/replacement.

[krtgolfing]

It is very clear she broke the rule. My biggest issue is the 2nd 2 stroke penalty when the card was signed "incorrectly." It was correct at the time so I think that is a joke. Should of let her go back after her round today and design the corrected card. The other issue is the people calling in about rules infractions. Some people need to get a life. I know when I watch golf I am not looking for rules infractions. I want to watch someone who plays good golf! Another issue is this is not fair for the players who are at the top of the leaderboard / popular golfers.

[Lord Helmet]

Is there a rule about the size of the marker you can use?

 

She is one of my favorite golfers - I love her game and how she plays. But I think this was a bad error on her part. I have no idea if it was intentional or not, but she clearly put the ball back down in a different spot compared to where it came to rest. She is a pro and gets paid to be a pro - so you gotta know what you are doing. Had she taken her time, got behind the ball, and placed the ball 1/2" closer to the hole, my guess is nobody says a thing since it was on the same line. Placing off to the side made it obvious.

 

She handled herself with class afterwards.

[jmkenn0]

Yeah, it definitely seems like she was actively trying to avoid some sort of demarcation on the green, but maybe she's just careless with her markings? Either way, it clearly was a different spot.

[SNIPERBBB]

The video evidence shows very clearly that Lexi replaced her ball 2-3 millimeters ahead of where she marked it, so there is no doubt in my mind that she played her next stroke from the wrong place. The ball must be placed exactly where it was prior to lifting, and by that I mean on the exact micrometer where the ball sat. Two-stroke penalty no doubt. With new HD technology we can zoom in to see right down to 1 mm where the ball is placed.

 

However, my doubt was why was she not disqualified for signing an incorrect scorecard. Has the Rules changed so there is no more DQ if players sign an incorrect scorecard? The rule I have always known is if you sign for a score that is lower than actual on a single hole you are DQ, but no DQ if you sign for a score higher than actual, as my buddy Roberto will attest.

 

New (2016) Rule 6-6 d adds this:

 

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d. This Exception does not apply when the applicable penalty is disqualification from the competition.

 

This is the Tiger rule is it not. At the masters in '13 the infamous wrong place drop after hitting the flagstick and coming back into the pond on 15. The masters committee after a call in added the penalty to TW after he signed instead of DQ.

[TerpFangolfer]

Yeah, it definitely seems like she was actively trying to avoid some sort of demarcation on the green, but maybe she's just careless with her markings? Either way, it clearly was a different spot.

 

yeah, basically the same as Chella Choi right? Put mark to one side of the ball, and replaced to the other side - apparently to avoid a spike mark, but definitely wrong location. And Lexi appears to have done the same - to me...

[Noles]

Sorry gents, they got the ruling right. That is some straight up Elliot Saltman BS right there. She didn't accidentally move that ball. She intentionally did it. Weak sauce on her part.

 

I miss the DQ penalty already.

 

Just another cheat in the "self-policing" sport of golf. Unfortunately we need to have cameras on these "self-policing" players or they will pull BS like this.

 

I'm hoping she'll learn a lesson from this, AFTER they suspend her for a while.

 

Play the game.

 

And what is the alternative to not allowing call ins? Just letting these finks cheat, in plain view, on TV with a replay that cycles over and over? And what of the players that finish behind the player that is caught on camera flat out cheating, as in this very case, but wins because no penalties are assessed?

 

Bring back the DQ I say. This wasn't a case where a high speed camera saw 2 grains of sand move on a backswing that couldn't be felt. This was a deliberate movement of the ball by a player to play from a different place. A wrong place. She deliberately played from a wrong place, got away with it, and signed an incorrect card.

 

She knows what she did. Suspend her.

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. She was standing to the side and was careless. No way that was intentional.

 

TOTALLY DISAGREE! We've all marked the ball standing to the side and it ain't difficult to put the friggin marker in the right place. I could see it happening if she had tossed the ball to her caddie for cleaning and looked at the putt from a couple of different angles before replacing the ball, but not the way it happened.

 

While I agree that ANY infraction should only be called the day it took place, I CAN NOT agree that this was accidental. Lexi is a PRO, she does this for a living. The rules have been imprinted in her brain. Precision is a way of life for these players. I watched the video multiple times and have no doubt in my mind.

.

She missed the put leaving a tap in.

 

She walked up to the ball as if she were going to simply tap it in.

 

She stops and looks intently at the ball/ground.

 

She grabs the marker from her hat and drops it NO WHERE NEAR directly opposite the hole (I've seen 10 yr olds do a better job marking).

 

She lifts the ball ONLY A FEW INCHES from the ground, rotates it slightly and then places it a good inch closer to her (to the left looking at the hole), sideways to the hole as if she didn't want to putt over something that was in the way. Not a few MMs as some think. Go back and watch it. The marker was not visible when she picked the ball up and was completely visible when she sat it down. I have a ton of those markers and they are 1" wide.

 

WTF!! If that was carelessness, then she has no business playing pro golf! In this day, when every sporting event is under a microscope, who would think they could get away with that? That's the kind of crap you see from the jerks in the money games at the local club. Yeah, the ones that are pointed out in this very forum multiple times each year and criticized by all of us. The one we call low-lifes and cheaters. There's no place for that in Pro Golf IMHO.

 

I honestly don't see how it wasn't pointed out immediately by the commentators during real-time broadcast. This persons email should have not even mattered because it should have been pointed out when it happened. Regardless, she is fortunate the rule was changed a few years back or she would have been DQ'd instead of still having a chance to win.

 

Rant over.

 

BT

We definitely disagree...I don't see it that way at all...it just looked careless.

[Sawgrass]

The video evidence shows very clearly that Lexi replaced her ball 2-3 millimeters ahead of where she marked it, so there is no doubt in my mind that she played her next stroke from the wrong place. The ball must be placed exactly where it was prior to lifting, and by that I mean on the exact micrometer where the ball sat. Two-stroke penalty no doubt. With new HD technology we can zoom in to see right down to 1 mm where the ball is placed.

 

However, my doubt was why was she not disqualified for signing an incorrect scorecard. Has the Rules changed so there is no more DQ if players sign an incorrect scorecard? The rule I have always known is if you sign for a score that is lower than actual on a single hole you are DQ, but no DQ if you sign for a score higher than actual, as my buddy Roberto will attest.

 

New (2016) Rule 6-6 d adds this:

 

Exception: If a competitor returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken due to failure to include one or more penalty strokes that, before returning his score card, he did not know he had incurred, he is not disqualified. In such circumstances, the competitor incurs the penalty prescribed by the applicable Rule and an additional penalty of two strokes for each hole at which the competitor has committed a breach of Rule 6-6d. This Exception does not apply when the applicable penalty is disqualification from the competition.

 

 

This is the Tiger rule is it not. At the masters in '13 the infamous wrong place drop after hitting the flagstick and coming back into the pond on 15. The masters committee after a call in added the penalty to TW after he signed instead of DQ.

 

It certainly relates to that Tiger situation. But I believe that in Tiger's case, before this Rule was developed, he (justifiably) got a better deal. He signed for a wrong score, and I'm pretty sure he only ended up with the two stroke wrong place penalty and not the additional penalty for signing a score excluding a penalty you didn't know you committed. Tiger got a break since unbeknownst to him the Committee had reviewed his situation during the round and could have/should have involved him before he signed. So they waived the DQ and just added in the two strokes he'd have otherwise suffered.

[TerpFangolfer]

Sorry gents, they got the ruling right. That is some straight up Elliot Saltman BS right there. She didn't accidentally move that ball. She intentionally did it. Weak sauce on her part.

 

I miss the DQ penalty already.

 

Just another cheat in the "self-policing" sport of golf. Unfortunately we need to have cameras on these "self-policing" players or they will pull BS like this.

 

I'm hoping she'll learn a lesson from this, AFTER they suspend her for a while.

 

Play the game.

 

And what is the alternative to not allowing call ins? Just letting these finks cheat, in plain view, on TV with a replay that cycles over and over? And what of the players that finish behind the player that is caught on camera flat out cheating, as in this very case, but wins because no penalties are assessed?

 

Bring back the DQ I say. This wasn't a case where a high speed camera saw 2 grains of sand move on a backswing that couldn't be felt. This was a deliberate movement of the ball by a player to play from a different place. A wrong place. She deliberately played from a wrong place, got away with it, and signed an incorrect card.

 

She knows what she did. Suspend her.

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. She was standing to the side and was careless. No way that was intentional.

 

TOTALLY DISAGREE! We've all marked the ball standing to the side and it ain't difficult to put the friggin marker in the right place. I could see it happening if she had tossed the ball to her caddie for cleaning and looked at the putt from a couple of different angles before replacing the ball, but not the way it happened.

 

While I agree that ANY infraction should only be called the day it took place, I CAN NOT agree that this was accidental. Lexi is a PRO, she does this for a living. The rules have been imprinted in her brain. Precision is a way of life for these players. I watched the video multiple times and have no doubt in my mind.

.

She missed the put leaving a tap in.

 

She walked up to the ball as if she were going to simply tap it in.

 

She stops and looks intently at the ball/ground.

 

She grabs the marker from her hat and drops it NO WHERE NEAR directly opposite the hole (I've seen 10 yr olds do a better job marking).

 

She lifts the ball ONLY A FEW INCHES from the ground, rotates it slightly and then places it a good inch closer to her (to the left looking at the hole), sideways to the hole as if she didn't want to putt over something that was in the way. Not a few MMs as some think. Go back and watch it. The marker was not visible when she picked the ball up and was completely visible when she sat it down. I have a ton of those markers and they are 1" wide.

 

WTF!! If that was carelessness, then she has no business playing pro golf! In this day, when every sporting event is under a microscope, who would think they could get away with that? That's the kind of crap you see from the jerks in the money games at the local club. Yeah, the ones that are pointed out in this very forum multiple times each year and criticized by all of us. The one we call low-lifes and cheaters. There's no place for that in Pro Golf IMHO.

 

I honestly don't see how it wasn't pointed out immediately by the commentators during real-time broadcast. This persons email should have not even mattered because it should have been pointed out when it happened. Regardless, she is fortunate the rule was changed a few years back or she would have been DQ'd instead of still having a chance to win.

 

Rant over.

 

BT

We definitely disagree...I don't see it that way at all...it just looked careless.

 

It could be, but it's almost to the point of being egregious...and begs the question - how can a top level player, be that careless? ANd maybe it does happen "all the time" (out of view of TV)...but the leaders know they are on TV...it is a tough situation - and as stated I do disagree with the timing of the penalty, but there cannot really be any doubt she played from the wrong spot - a penalty whether careless or deliberate

[Noles]

Sorry gents, they got the ruling right. That is some straight up Elliot Saltman BS right there. She didn't accidentally move that ball. She intentionally did it. Weak sauce on her part.

 

I miss the DQ penalty already.

 

Just another cheat in the "self-policing" sport of golf. Unfortunately we need to have cameras on these "self-policing" players or they will pull BS like this.

 

I'm hoping she'll learn a lesson from this, AFTER they suspend her for a while.

 

Play the game.

 

And what is the alternative to not allowing call ins? Just letting these finks cheat, in plain view, on TV with a replay that cycles over and over? And what of the players that finish behind the player that is caught on camera flat out cheating, as in this very case, but wins because no penalties are assessed?

 

Bring back the DQ I say. This wasn't a case where a high speed camera saw 2 grains of sand move on a backswing that couldn't be felt. This was a deliberate movement of the ball by a player to play from a different place. A wrong place. She deliberately played from a wrong place, got away with it, and signed an incorrect card.

 

She knows what she did. Suspend her.

That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. She was standing to the side and was careless. No way that was intentional.

 

TOTALLY DISAGREE! We've all marked the ball standing to the side and it ain't difficult to put the friggin marker in the right place. I could see it happening if she had tossed the ball to her caddie for cleaning and looked at the putt from a couple of different angles before replacing the ball, but not the way it happened.

 

While I agree that ANY infraction should only be called the day it took place, I CAN NOT agree that this was accidental. Lexi is a PRO, she does this for a living. The rules have been imprinted in her brain. Precision is a way of life for these players. I watched the video multiple times and have no doubt in my mind.

.

She missed the put leaving a tap in.

 

She walked up to the ball as if she were going to simply tap it in.

 

She stops and looks intently at the ball/ground.

 

She grabs the marker from her hat and drops it NO WHERE NEAR directly opposite the hole (I've seen 10 yr olds do a better job marking).

 

She lifts the ball ONLY A FEW INCHES from the ground, rotates it slightly and then places it a good inch closer to her (to the left looking at the hole), sideways to the hole as if she didn't want to putt over something that was in the way. Not a few MMs as some think. Go back and watch it. The marker was not visible when she picked the ball up and was completely visible when she sat it down. I have a ton of those markers and they are 1" wide.

 

WTF!! If that was carelessness, then she has no business playing pro golf! In this day, when every sporting event is under a microscope, who would think they could get away with that? That's the kind of crap you see from the jerks in the money games at the local club. Yeah, the ones that are pointed out in this very forum multiple times each year and criticized by all of us. The one we call low-lifes and cheaters. There's no place for that in Pro Golf IMHO.

 

I honestly don't see how it wasn't pointed out immediately by the commentators during real-time broadcast. This persons email should have not even mattered because it should have been pointed out when it happened. Regardless, she is fortunate the rule was changed a few years back or she would have been DQ'd instead of still having a chance to win.

 

Rant over.

 

BT

We definitely disagree...I don't see it that way at all...it just looked careless.

 

It could be, but it's almost to the point of being egregious...and begs the question - how can a top level player, be that careless? ANd maybe it does happen "all the time" (out of view of TV)...but the leaders know they are on TV...it is a tough situation - and as stated I do disagree with the timing of the penalty, but there cannot really be any doubt she played from the wrong spot - a penalty whether careless or deliberate

I agree that she played from the wrong spot. I just don't see the intent that others seem to see.

[ctmason_98]

How can anyone expect the Rules to allow you to replace your ball in a place other than from where it was lifted?

 

This is a larger discussion than Thompson's infraction, of course, but surely you would agree it is a near physical impossibility to correctly replace a golf ball in precisely (down to the micrometer) the same place 20 times out of 20.

 

The issue for me comes down to defining a tolerance for replacing in a different spot in the rule. That seems practical. I don't know if Thompson's movement would or should fall within such a tolerance -- and guess it doesn't really matter at this point.

 

Before we get to questions of honor, integrity, self-policing, and the American way, it seems we should look at the practicality of enforcement in an environment when movement of a ball (or material) can be "seen" in ways not conceived when the rules were written.

[HitEmTrue]

I agree that she played from the wrong spot. I just don't see the intent that others seem to see.

 

Now that I've seen the video, how could she not have known she moved it? She picked the ball up less than 2-inches from the ground.

[Mdmspop]

I watch almost every golf tournament being old men, guys, or women and this is the first time I have ever felt ashamed for the game and the rules of the game. There is no way one should be able to add strokes to another's score a day after.

 

 

This is ridiculous. What other sport allows fans to point out rules violations to the officials? They have multiple officials, marshals and volunteers out on the course. If none of them notice a violation then there shouldn't be any call.

 

To you and the several others here who hold this point of view, you are missing huge implications. A part of golf (which I cherish) is the obligation players have to uphold the Rules themselves. It's not only impractical to have refs everywhere, but if you change things so that the only infractions which will be penalized are the infractions immediately noticed, you'll inherently change the nature of the game to one where players are rewarded for fooling refs. There are enough games like that around, leave ours be.

 

TV watchers calling things in may be unpleasant to some, particularly when a violation was indeed unintentional, but it helps keeps things square. The way to protect one's self from being penalized is to avoid infractions. The fact that something like this happens so infrequently is evidence that things work well already. And to those who think that microscopic movements happen all the time and are undetected, consider this fairly recent improvement to the Rules:

 

18/4

 

Television Evidence Shows Ball at Rest Changed Position But by Amount Not Reasonably Discernible to Naked Eye

 

Q.A player addresses his ball. He observes a slight motion of the ball but believes that it has only oscillated and has not left its original position. He therefore plays the ball as it lies. Later, the Committee becomes aware from television evidence that the ball had in fact left its position and come to rest in another place, although that change of position was such that it was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time of the incident. What is the ruling?

 

A.The ball is deemed not to have moved and therefore there is no penalty under Rule 18-2. The Definition of "Moved" - when a ball "leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place" - does not contemplate movements of the ball that are only discernible through the use of high definition television or any other form of sophisticated technology.

 

When determining whether or not his ball at rest has moved, a player must make that judgment based on all the information readily available to him at the time, so that he can determine whether the ball must be replaced under Rule 18-2 or another applicable Rule. When the player's ball has left its original position and come to rest in another place by an amount that was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, a player's determination that the ball has not moved will be deemed to be conclusive, even if that determination is later shown to be incorrect through the use of sophisticated technology.

 

On the other hand, if the Committee determines, based on all of the evidence it has available, that the ball changed its position by an amount that was reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, the ball is deemed to have moved. As the player did not replace the ball, he incurs a penalty under the applicable Rule and Rule 20-7c for playing from a wrong place.

 

These principles apply to any review of technological evidence by the Committee, whether before the player makes his next stroke or any time thereafter. These principles also apply in a situation in which the player made no determination whether or not his ball at rest moved (e.g., because he had walked away from his ball after addressing it, was not looking at his ball, or otherwise did not observe any motion of the ball or have any reason to believe that his ball might have moved).

 

Before determining whether his ball has moved, it is advisable for the player to obtain information from nearby witnesses to the incident and to seek guidance from a referee if one is immediately available. (Revised)

 

I don't like the idea that viewers can call in violations, but I understand your point. I will also say that the footage, shown at normal resolution, seems to show nothing at all. When digitally enhanced through zooming, however, we see what occurred. I wonder how the viewer noticed it. He/She must watch telecasts specifically hoping to catch something like this. To each his own I guess.

 

I also don't like the idea of a penalty applied to a round already completed, but I get that the tournament is ongoing and so everything is still on the table.

 

I have one question and one opinion for you:

 

Question: what if this had happened on the 17th hole of the final round, and Lexi had won, gotten her trophy and jumped in the pond? Would this situation then not been reviewable since the event had concluded? I assume if so the LPGA makes no mention of the email they received after the event and we're none the wiser.

 

Opinion: I understand up until recently she would have been DQ'd for the wrong scorecard and the new 2-stroke penalty is seen as a serious lightening of that penalty. But still, in the spirit of the rules, how can one failrly be punished for signing a wrong scorecard when it was not, in fact, wrong at the time. We're giving her the benefit of the doubt that the violation was inadvertant, because, as you say, we trust golfers to police themselves. I don't like the "wrong scorecard that wasn't wrong but that's wrong now so...." penalty. Again, just my opinion.

[ahaberkorn]

I watch almost every golf tournament being old men, guys, or women and this is the first time I have ever felt ashamed for the game and the rules of the game. There is no way one should be able to add strokes to another's score a day after.

 

 

This is ridiculous. What other sport allows fans to point out rules violations to the officials? They have multiple officials, marshals and volunteers out on the course. If none of them notice a violation then there shouldn't be any call.

 

To you and the several others here who hold this point of view, you are missing huge implications. A part of golf (which I cherish) is the obligation players have to uphold the Rules themselves. It's not only impractical to have refs everywhere, but if you change things so that the only infractions which will be penalized are the infractions immediately noticed, you'll inherently change the nature of the game to one where players are rewarded for fooling refs. There are enough games like that around, leave ours be.

 

TV watchers calling things in may be unpleasant to some, particularly when a violation was indeed unintentional, but it helps keeps things square. The way to protect one's self from being penalized is to avoid infractions. The fact that something like this happens so infrequently is evidence that things work well already. And to those who think that microscopic movements happen all the time and are undetected, consider this fairly recent improvement to the Rules:

 

18/4

 

 

Television Evidence Shows Ball at Rest Changed Position But by Amount Not Reasonably Discernible to Naked Eye

 

 

Q.A player addresses his ball. He observes a slight motion of the ball but believes that it has only oscillated and has not left its original position. He therefore plays the ball as it lies. Later, the Committee becomes aware from television evidence that the ball had in fact left its position and come to rest in another place, although that change of position was such that it was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time of the incident. What is the ruling?

 

A.The ball is deemed not to have moved and therefore there is no penalty under Rule 18-2. The Definition of "Moved" - when a ball "leaves its position and comes to rest in any other place" - does not contemplate movements of the ball that are only discernible through the use of high definition television or any other form of sophisticated technology.

 

When determining whether or not his ball at rest has moved, a player must make that judgment based on all the information readily available to him at the time, so that he can determine whether the ball must be replaced under Rule 18-2 or another applicable Rule. When the player's ball has left its original position and come to rest in another place by an amount that was not reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, a player's determination that the ball has not moved will be deemed to be conclusive, even if that determination is later shown to be incorrect through the use of sophisticated technology.

 

On the other hand, if the Committee determines, based on all of the evidence it has available, that the ball changed its position by an amount that was reasonably discernible to the naked eye at the time, the ball is deemed to have moved. As the player did not replace the ball, he incurs a penalty under the applicable Rule and Rule 20-7c for playing from a wrong place.

 

These principles apply to any review of technological evidence by the Committee, whether before the player makes his next stroke or any time thereafter. These principles also apply in a situation in which the player made no determination whether or not his ball at rest moved (e.g., because he had walked away from his ball after addressing it, was not looking at his ball, or otherwise did not observe any motion of the ball or have any reason to believe that his ball might have moved).

 

Before determining whether his ball has moved, it is advisable for the player to obtain information from nearby witnesses to the incident and to seek guidance from a referee if one is immediately available. (Revised)

 

 

I think my issue with the TV viewers being able to 'ref' from home is there is an unfair advantage to less popular players or those not in the final group, etc. The time they spend on TV is non-existent or very limited, as opposed to someone like Lexi who has every shot aired.

 

I'd also say that previous days scores should only be changed prior to teeing off the next day. A player's approach to the round likely changes if he/she knows about the penalties before starting a round (ie maybe would play a bit more aggressive, etc.).

 

I'm new to the game, so maybe that influences my outlook here. It should have been a self-assessed penalty based on the way the rules are written though. I wouldn't argue that at all, although it does highlight some of the difficulty in golf's rules for the casual fan/player.

[landolakes]

I think all rounds are part of the larger tournament, and I can see a rule applied before the tournament is complete. As for the ability to apply rules penalties by viewers that are phoned in... I guess that if it is seen by someone it is ok to apply a penalty.

 

Im sure if it were a serious/ blatant rules infraction that came to light a day later, the uproar would be directed at the competitor and not how or when the ruling was enforced.

[TollBros]

Honestly, getting tired of this call in from home crapola.

 

100% agree. Once the round is over, the round needs to be over. There should not be an "after the fact" ruling on a round that has finished. The rule needs to change.

[cvhookem63]

Honestly, getting tired of this call in from home crapola.

 

100% agree. Once the round is over, the round needs to be over. There should not be an "after the fact" ruling on a round that has finished. The rule needs to change.

 

That's in the proposed USGA rule changes for 2019 I believe.