if miura is so great.....

[Samsquanch]

They smell better.

[setter02]

[quote name='easyyy' post='837169' date='Dec 26 2007, 11:03 AM']Tom Stites from Nike Golf, Benoit Vincent of TaylorMade, Reid Gorman of MacGregor are "Currently" using all the same heads for irons in their tour sets as the retail sets. All they are doing is shipping the raw unfinished blanks to the US and finishing them here in some cases. Tom said then he puts the grinds and finishes on in Texas to fit the individual players needs.

I thought it was interesting to hear they did this. Each one of them will either "pull heads from the retail shelves" or ship in blanks from the forging house and finish the sets (grinds and finish) here.


As for Miura... Why arnt they getting the love in the amateur circles? Maybe it is the multi million dollar sales and marketing campaigns that all the "Major OEM's" present every day. When I open up a Golf Digest I don't see Miura anywhere.

Also... As for ultimate forging??? There are debates and opinions here. I don't claim to know and honestly cant tell the difference to much. They all fell good once there is some mass behind the sweet spot. However there are many highly respected engineers that don't care the "spin welding" of the hosel to the head.

They respect Mr. Miura and believe he makes excellent forgings but after talking to many insiders they dont favor the spin welding. Could be bias since it is a proprietary process. Dont shot the massager, just telling you what I have heard in my travels talking to folks.[/quote]


Have to disagree here, Mike Wier's R7 TP's aren't US retail club heads, they are the JDM Forged version. And I would have to think that many of the other TM tour players when having choice, would play those heads rather then TM Castings.

[keephooking]

[quote name='8thehardway' post='837212' date='Dec 26 2007, 11:40 AM']Because the molecules are denser, a forged iron will sink faster when throw into a nearby lake.[/quote]

[KTgolf1]

Whilst I am a believer in the greater feel provided by forged clubs, and that there are perceptible differences in one forging over another. The main reason that more good amatuer players aren't using miura and their ilk, is probably due to a lack of brand awareness, coupled with cost. There is little point speculating as to why your standard PGA tour player is using a particular set of clubs, as they are paid handsomely to play a certain brand. For players who get their clubs for free and they are of decent quality, why not play them?

Furthermore, the OEMs still offer decent forgings, and whilst some clubs out there may feel better, this isn't exactly going to lead to better scores at the end of the day. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter.

[Big Ben]

I've owned to many sets of irons to count and my Miura CB-201's are the best feeling and playing irons I've ever gamed in my life; hard to argue with that in my mind. A well struck ball is dead laser straight and that my friends is how I (+3) judge my irons. I baught into the new cast technology and tried a set of Ping S-58's this season; worst feeling irons ever! I literally would dig every single swing and could never dial them in and so harsh (it's plain bull that you can't feel the difference). Actually sent them back to improve the grinds because I wanted to like them because Ping is a good company. Sold last week. Oh yeah; SHHHHH Larena and Angel get paid...

[hmx3]

Sure forged irons feel better, but the goal is to have a good score. And my best scores I made with cast Tommy Amour`s 845.

[BigLeftyinAZ]

Been playing this silly game for over 25 yrs and played just about every iron made for leftys.I can say my miuras are by far the best irons i have played.This will be my 4th season with them.

Most PGA Pro's get paid to play that certain manufacturers irons and most of their clubs have been forged by miura.So, basicly they are playing a miura product with another badge

[Viking Golfer]

[quote name='CLNCONCPTS' post='875861' date='Jan 22 2008, 04:19 AM']Been playing this silly game for over 25 yrs and played just about every iron made for leftys.I can say my miuras are by far the best irons i have played.This will be my 4th season with them.

[b][color="#ff0000"]Most PGA Pro's get paid to play that certain manufacturers irons and most of their clubs have been forged by miura.So, basicly they are playing a miura product with another badge[/color][/b][/quote]

I'm a big time Miura fan, but this is [u][b]not[/b][/u] true.

It has been rumoured that Tiger plays with irons forged by Miura, but so far this has been far from proved correct.
Goosen and Sergio also were said to use irons forged by Miura, but once again - nothing has been proved so far.

[SwingMan]

[quote name='ClubHoUno' post='875898' date='Jan 21 2008, 09:33 PM'][quote name='CLNCONCPTS' post='875861' date='Jan 22 2008, 04:19 AM']Been playing this silly game for over 25 yrs and played just about every iron made for leftys.I can say my miuras are by far the best irons i have played.This will be my 4th season with them.

[b][color="#ff0000"]Most PGA Pro's get paid to play that certain manufacturers irons and most of their clubs have been forged by miura.So, basicly they are playing a miura product with another badge[/color][/b][/quote]

I'm a big time Miura fan, but this is [u][b]not[/b][/u] true.

It has been rumoured that Tiger plays with irons forged by Miura, but so far this has been far from proved correct.
Goosen and Sergio also were said to use irons forged by Miura, but once again - nothing has been proved so far.
[/quote]


But has it been unproven?

[Viking Golfer]

[quote name='SwingMan' post='876016' date='Jan 22 2008, 06:12 AM'][quote name='ClubHoUno' post='875898' date='Jan 21 2008, 09:33 PM'][quote name='CLNCONCPTS' post='875861' date='Jan 22 2008, 04:19 AM']Been playing this silly game for over 25 yrs and played just about every iron made for leftys.I can say my miuras are by far the best irons i have played.This will be my 4th season with them.

[b][color="#ff0000"]Most PGA Pro's get paid to play that certain manufacturers irons and most of their clubs have been forged by miura.So, basicly they are playing a miura product with another badge[/color][/b][/quote]

I'm a big time Miura fan, but this is [u][b]not[/b][/u] true.

It has been rumoured that Tiger plays with irons forged by Miura, but so far this has been far from proved correct.
Goosen and Sergio also were said to use irons forged by Miura, but once again - nothing has been proved so far.
[/quote]


But has it been unproven?

[/quote]

No, but so hasn't the rumour stating that Ernie Els in reality comes from the planet Pluto and Tiger is called Tiger, because he has a tigers tail

[SwingMan]

[quote name='ClubHoUno' post='876120' date='Jan 22 2008, 12:45 AM'][quote name='SwingMan' post='876016' date='Jan 22 2008, 06:12 AM'][quote name='ClubHoUno' post='875898' date='Jan 21 2008, 09:33 PM'][quote name='CLNCONCPTS' post='875861' date='Jan 22 2008, 04:19 AM']Been playing this silly game for over 25 yrs and played just about every iron made for leftys.I can say my miuras are by far the best irons i have played.This will be my 4th season with them.

[b][color="#ff0000"]Most PGA Pro's get paid to play that certain manufacturers irons and most of their clubs have been forged by miura.So, basicly they are playing a miura product with another badge[/color][/b][/quote]

I'm a big time Miura fan, but this is [u][b]not[/b][/u] true.

It has been rumoured that Tiger plays with irons forged by Miura, but so far this has been far from proved correct.
Goosen and Sergio also were said to use irons forged by Miura, but once again - nothing has been proved so far.
[/quote]


But has it been unproven?

[/quote]

No, but so hasn't the rumour stating that Ernie Els in reality comes from the planet Pluto and Tiger is called Tiger, because he has a tigers tail
[/quote]


He's not?

He doesn't?


Is that like saying that Tour Drivers are made from Unobtanium which can only be obtained at a certain place on the dial?

It hasn't been unproven, right?

[MacMia]

[quote name='jzrad' post='691134' date='Aug 23 2007, 05:22 AM']...then why do these irons get no love....?

i've yet to see any top players use them......i've played in a ton of amatuer events and have seen only a hadful of players use them.......i know the argument about "its a small compnay and they dont pay players etc..."

i guess my question is, if they are the ultimate forging....wouldn't at least top amatuers play them more....????


just wondering......[/quote]

Miura being a great forging house does not mean that it is a great design house... IMO, some of the designs outside of the Baby Blade, are terrible- especially the CBs. If a poor design is made to exacting specs, it is still a poor design...

[CFGOLFER]

Just got back from the PGA show a couple of weeks ago. I thought to myself WOW there were are few, small Japan forging companies there. Guess What they were all saying that they have forged irons for TM, Nike ect. Well I guess the OEM's shop too. Nice Stuff though. Epon that is a Tour Spec Golf Brand, But the Vega Golf Irons were as good as any irons I have ever seen, I have heard that Nakashima Golf migth have a few things done by them. As far as being the best in the industry, I have seen alot a awsome forgings not from Japan. Let's face it, you Forge in Japan it is like maufacturing in the USA the cost are way too high. That being said it is PGA bound, as they expect the best.

[Southern Ca Boy]

Freddy Couples, CH3, Will Mackenzie all use Miura forged irons......

 

They are just stamped with Bridgestone. So the previous comments about some tour players using miura clubs stamped by their sponsor is in fact correct.

[progolf4life]

...then why do these irons get no love....?

 

i've yet to see any top players use them......i've played in a ton of amatuer events and have seen only a hadful of players use them.......i know the argument about "its a small compnay and they dont pay players etc..."

 

i guess my question is, if they are the ultimate forging....wouldn't at least top amatuers play them more....????

 

 

just wondering......

 

Miura being a great forging house does not mean that it is a great design house... IMO, some of the designs outside of the Baby Blade, are terrible- especially the CBs. If a poor design is made to exacting specs, it is still a poor design...

 

and may I ask what about the design is poor.............

[Viking Golfer]

...then why do these irons get no love....?

 

i've yet to see any top players use them......i've played in a ton of amatuer events and have seen only a hadful of players use them.......i know the argument about "its a small compnay and they dont pay players etc..."

 

i guess my question is, if they are the ultimate forging....wouldn't at least top amatuers play them more....????

 

 

just wondering......

 

Miura being a great forging house does not mean that it is a great design house... IMO, some of the designs outside of the Baby Blade, are terrible- especially the CBs. If a poor design is made to exacting specs, it is still a poor design...

 

and may I ask what about the design is poor.............

 

 

I think he's referring to this cavity back design. And he certainly has a stron point - this iron is not only poorly designed without the use of proper CAD tech but it also looks very ugly - I have never seen a more ugly designed cvity back iron in my life.................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are indeed ugly..........worst cavity back design I've ever seen - CAD technology or not ;) :ok:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you realize I was only joking :)

Only one bad thing with these irons....the 8,9 and PW have a too round head shape for my likings - other than that, this is the best designed cavity back ever :)

[justanothergolfer]

Vega popped up in the UK last year and have really created a following and they do feel stunning. The limited edition sets are really cool and I know they have product in play on the tour, unpaid... From speaking to them they have made for larger OEM companies in the past but have decided to focus on their own brand now as the larger companies try to press on price. Cool stuff, take a look at www.vega-golf.com

[gth1017]

Folks, I'm an old guy, been playing for a long time, and if you can beat any really good JDM forging for feel and playability, I'll buy yours and mine!

 

Got Miura 202's and 1006's and they are just incredible. Even better feeling than the Lehmans they made for Taylor Made. But......all time favorite may be the Gold's Factory CB's that are not only gorgeous to look at, but a true joy to hit.

 

Any of the top Japanese forged clubs, Epon (Endo), Yamaha, PRGR, are just a joy to hit and differences are purely a matter of personal taste.

[chico713]

Regarding forgings and feel, how much of a factor is the type of ball you play...i.e. what would be the difference of a good cast club like a Ping Eye hitting a ProV1 or other 3 piece ball vs a Muira or Mizuno hitting a Titleist NXT or a Precept or a Top Flite distance ball?

[BigLeftyinAZ]

I dont think those CB's are ugly looking.Look rather sweet compared to many oems. Ugly is ping,callaway,cobra, and 90% of the oems out there,JMHO.I can find many things wrong with clubs i dont like..I like the 690's but dont care for the look of the 695's.But if i were to pick between the 690's and the miuras,i'd choose miura.I like the look better

[TurboSport]

The last thing I want is to become victim of marketing hype. So instead of debating over the merits of forged vis-a-vis cast, I do my own testing. To me forged do feel better but there are cast which feel wonderful as well. My short list of forged are: Mizuno MP-57, Tourstage ViQ 2007, Miura CB-301 and Nike Pro Combo. My short list of cast is Honma, and only Honma. I tried Ping, Callaway, TaylorMade cast etc. and they did not do it for me. It's a personal opinion of course.

[ltglf]

MP-57's are forged in China

[rbenz]

MP-57's are forged in China

 

Oh no you didnt! lol... Seriously, this is just flame bait :)

[ltglf]

I am serious, they are..

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...en&ie=UTF-8

 

 

they state is on their own website

[ltglf]

forged in china, assembled in Japan.

[sandy]

A LOT OF TOUR PLAYERS irons were forged by miura - also they might be labeled by a "top brand"

 

I just quote from another blog:

 

"In terms of Tour irons, most manufacturers will have their heads forged by one of the premium facilities like Miura or Endo for the Tour product, but go with a large mass forging facility in China for the production heads. TaylorMade for example uses Miura to forge the Tour sets, Titleist uses Endo, and Nike has used both in the production of the Tour heads. Tour irons are generally dead on spec in terms of weight. You will not get a Tour set of irons with swingweights all over the board like you do with retail sets. This is because of the quality control at the high grade forging houses. These heads are also nearly free of imperfections both external and internal, and generally have an entirely different feel than their retail counterparts. These forgings are, obviously, higher quality accross the board, and MUCH more expensive to have done than the retail line."

 

Keep drinking that Kool Aid. Real obvious when people have or in this case don't have any working knowledge of the forging industry and materials.

[Xiphos]

I think, its all marketing, preferences and perceptions. One say welded hosel rocks, another say One piece design rocks. Just a piece of metal and the design is much more important.Scratch Golf have much much better versatility, bringing High End- Custom Designs to Average Joes, I think they would still rocks even if their wedges are Cast iron purely from their designs.

 

I remember, Scratch got banned by the other site, and the other site are Hyping the Miura. Why? because they sell them. thats why. They would hype anything they can sell and make it untouchables by average joes. Exclusive . Well, they did a good job really. I learn a lot from them to apply in my own little business and see through BS better.

 

 

Ping is very successful with their cast, so does callaway. Callaway's forged + wedge did not catch on. Plastic inserts putters are used by more people . Quality, Exotics are just way over hyped. Taylor made uses Cast in their TP line. Gasp, TOUR CAST... thats so exclusive ..

 

So, the answer I think is.. its all marketing.. and preferences. If you enjoy it.. use it. If you can get money using it. use it . If you like Exclusive stuff. Use it .

 

My 2 cents.

 

I know 3 people who have Scratch equipment and they had all had problems. One had the chrome flake off his irons. The second guy has rattles in all of his wedges (he no longer uses them). The third guy has rattles in several irons.

I am not anti-Scratch, but for as much as they cost they could do a better job with stuff like that.

[Xiphos]

Regarding forgings and feel, how much of a factor is the type of ball you play...i.e. what would be the difference of a good cast club like a Ping Eye hitting a ProV1 or other 3 piece ball vs a Muira or Mizuno hitting a Titleist NXT or a Precept or a Top Flite distance ball?

 

Feel is almost 100% associated with sound. When something feels soft, it sounds soft. Every study done on this issue has shown this. Players that wear ear plugs while hitting have a hard time telling the difference between a soft ball and a hard one. That is why cast clubs that have the plastic "feel pockets" in them feel softer, it dampens the sound.

 

So to answer your question, a hard ball is going to feel and sound hard no matter what club it is being hit with. The cast club and the soft ball will most likely fell softer than forged club and hard ball. Castings are much, much softer now and in many cases just as exact (when being pressure cast)

[Xsfspeed]

First off, I am a Miura fan. I have owned several sets of Miura's or OEM irons forged by Miura. I still own a set of Miuras, Tour Only Nike Split Cavity Protos, and Tour Issue OnOff 24/7s, which are all Miura forgings. I don't think it is a question of quality or superiority as the big OEMs as well as Miura and many other JDM forging houses all put out a good product. For amateurs, part of it may be the price point, as most OEM retail equipment sells for a lot less than the premium JDM stuff. The JDMs can charge those prices because people who can afford them will pay the price to get what they want. If you have to b@tch about the price, then maybe it is simply not for you. Like everything else with golf, it boils down to personal preference. I perceive that Miura feels better to me and I value and pay for that feel. To a point, I can tell the difference between an Endo and a Miura forging. I will not venture to say that one is better than the other, but that they are just different. On the flip side, I will not just buy a set of irons because they are Miura forged. If they are ugly and don't appeal to me, then I would definitely buy an attractive OEM cast offering over the ugly Miura. Anyone who spends any real amount of time in forums will see that perception and feel are very subjective. I was just reading a ball thread where some posters claim that ball A is not durable at all, while other posters claim the exact same ball lasts forever. Some claim that ball B feels terrible, while others vehemently argue that it feels awesome.

 

I don't care that people disagree with my opinion that Miura forgings feel terrific, it is their feel and their opinion. They are perfectly within their right to dissent. Personally, I am not a forged iron snob. I like the feel of a pured shot off of a forged iron, but I own and play cast clubs too. Keep in mind that often times, our developed "feel" may have something to do with what we played and/or were comfortable with when we started playing golf. I started with a forged set, which I guess has to do with my preference for forged. Here is food for thought, a top level amateur (Not Wie) who recently placed in the Fields Open was overheard commenting that the first time she tried forged irons, she didn't like them. She stated that she couldn't feel anything when she made contact with the ball! In other words, she hits the ball so pure and on the sweet spot, that there is no jarring or feedback at impact. Wow! I enjoy that "pured" sensation, although I don't get it as often as she does, but she perceives this lack of feedback that I strive to achieve as a bad thing. Bottom line; different strokes for different folks. Play what you like and what you can afford. It's all good! Just my $1.16. :)

[Scratch2Plus]

MP-57's are forged in China

 

 

oh really? Hmmm, the mizuno box that my MP57's came in says forged in Japan, chromed in China, assembled in the US. But really doesnt matter to me they feel sweet regardless. I love the dense/solid feel and sound of my Miura 202's but the MP57's has a different feel/sound but a good different if that makes any sense, lol.

:)