2018 NBA Season

[TheCityGame]

> @MtlJeff said:

> Internet talking heads are literally harder than a diamond in a snowstorm right now, waiting to give their opinions on whether or not KD should have played and who's to blame

 

it's the "hot take du jour" until whatever happens next. . .maybe someone will break an unwritten rule of baseball today.

 

I've no opinion. Clearly, based on what happened, you'd think he shouldn't have played. But, he looked great when he went in. He wanted to play ball. His team was on the brink of elimination. And, medical science is a crap shoot often. If he feels good, if it looks good. . .maybe 9 times out of 10, this is fine.

[scratchswinger]

I don’t know why people think the first one was an Achilles. The muscle you tear or strain when you tear a calf is at the very bottom of the calf a few inches above the ankle, that is exactly where he grabbed when he got injured in the Houston series. Last night he grabbed near the back of his foot, which is clearly lower then the first time and an Achilles .

 

I still think he gets a max, I just think he’s more likely to stay in GS now since he can get 5 years versus 4 elsewhere.

[TheCityGame]

> @scratchswinger said:

> I don’t know why people think the first one was an Achilles. The muscle you tear or strain when you tear a calf is at the very bottom of the calf a few inches above the ankle, that is exactly where he grabbed when he got injured in the Houston series. Last night he grabbed near the back of his foot, which is clearly lower then the first time and an Achilles .

>

> I still think he gets a max, I just think he’s more likely to stay in GS now since he can get 5 years versus 4 elsewhere.

 

A max? He might get it. Then, the GM who gave it to him should be taken out to a field and shot. [He's a 31 year old 7 footer with a ruptured achilles.](https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/1/27/16940178/demarcus-cousins-achilles-injury-golden-state-warriors-this-is-the-worst "He's a 31 year old 7 footer with a ruptured achilles.")

 

Obviously, I never was 100% that it was an achilles. But, "lower calf" and "achilles" sort of blend into each other anyway, and now that he's torn his achilles, I think it lends some credence to the theory that the first one was an achilles (as does the fact that he was out for WEEKS with a calf). And, when he did the first one, he came down just a little funny on that jumper, then went down a couple steps later. Landing from that jumper looked like the kind of foot turning over a little that tugs the achilles.

 

And, to tie these things together. . .the motivation for calling it a lower calf rather than an achilles is that achilles is career-killer (see link above). Lower calf needs rest. Achilles needs a miracle.

 

 

[scratchswinger]

Look where he is grabbing after the Houston injury. It's clearly a calf injury IMO for him to be grabbing where he did, it's not even close to his Achilles. I tore my calf last year and it was months before I could do anything. The fact that he was out a month to play basketball is really not a surprise at all to me. If anything it tells me it was a very minor tear or only strain of his calf. If it was a grade 3 he wouldn't be walking without a boot a month later non the less playing in the NBA Finals.

 

 

 

 

[scratchswinger]

And from last night. Achilles

 

 

[TheCityGame]

Just tore his calf and one month later randomly tore his achilles.

 

Totally unrelated.

 

Also, thanks for the photograph. Do you have any other still pictures of Kevin Durant touching his body in other places?

 

Here's one of him touching his thigh. . .

 


 

This is the first time he touches his leg after the injury against Houston. . .

 

 

From this video. . . 2:30 mark.

 

[scratchswinger]

I never once see him grab his Achilles in that video. I am not a doctor, I don't know if and how a lower leg strain can compromise other attaching body parts. If I remove the conspiracy theory mentality and think logically I can clearly see him grab is calf in one injury and his Achilles after the second injury.

[TheCityGame]

In the picture where he's touching his thigh, his other hand is on his achilles. Now you've seen it. That's from the Houston game.

 

I think what happened is he tore something in the upper achilles, they called it lower calf, and he went out last night and ruptured the rest of it.

 

But, the achilles tear last night certainly lent credence to all the people claiming the original was achilles. Sure, a calf injury can probably lead to a follow up achilles injury, but you know what else can lead to a follow up achilles injury. . .an initial achilles injury.

 

 

[SilverBullets]

> @scratchswinger said:

> I don’t know why people think the first one was an Achilles. The muscle you tear or strain when you tear a calf is at the very bottom of the calf a few inches above the ankle, that is exactly where he grabbed when he got injured in the Houston series. Last night he grabbed near the back of his foot, which is clearly lower then the first time and an Achilles .

>

> I still think he gets a max, I just think he’s more likely to stay in GS now since he can get 5 years versus 4 elsewhere.

 

There's a twitter account called ProFootballDoc... Its an orthopedic surgeon who also spent 17 years as the head doc for the Chargers. A month ago, he wrote an article citing how it was clear to him, on video evidence alone, that KD has partially torn his Achilles and that the calf strain wasn't accurate. There were 5 key points he outlined: 1 - Non Contact injury, 2 - Eccentric load on push-off where foot was dorsiflexed, 3 - KD looked back like someone hit him/kicked him in the back of the leg even though no contact was made, 4 - where he grabbed on his leg and 5 - when he limped off the floor he had zero plantar flexion.

 

Bryond that, the reason why so many fans (without a medical background) believed it was an Achilles the first time is because of how similar it was to Kobe's injury. The nature of the injury, the reaction from kobe, etc. was nearly identical.

 

Once the doctor saw KD was practicing, he backed down from his stance saying something like 'I'm glad I was wrong in this instance, great to hear KD is back'....

 

This could get really messy depending on what we learn (if anything). It seems like the Warriors missed a partial tear and now they are dealing with a potential rupture. Making things worse is this happened in the NBA while playing against Kawhi... a guy was basically run out of town in SA because he didn't trust the medical staff and opted to sit out longer than they recommended.

 

This injury changes the entire landscape of the NBA. The stats on NBA players coming back from this type of injury are pretty daunting, especially for guys over 30 and even moreso for guys who are 7 feet. Durant isn't just another NBA player so maybe he fairs better than his peers, but this is very likely a career limiting injury. The numbers I read were in the last 20 years there were 18 NBA players with achilles tears/ruptures. 11 of those nba players made it back to the NBA and only 1 of them returned to their normal production. In most cases, it took 2 full season for players to get back to health but their production never got back to pre-injury levels. I think in all cases, none of the players played in more than 66 games in a season for 3 full seasons after the injury.

 

 

[SilverBullets]

> @TheCityGame said:

> In the picture where he's touching his thigh, his other hand is on his achilles. Now you've seen it. That's from the Houston game.

>

> I think what happened is he tore something in the upper achilles, they called it lower calf, and he went out last night and ruptured the rest of it.

>

> But, the achilles tear last night certainly lent credence to all the people claiming the original was achilles. Sure, a calf injury can probably lead to a follow up achilles injury, but you know what else can lead to a follow up achilles injury. . .an initial achilles injury.

>

>

 

I think this is exactly what happened. When the GM starts his press conference looking ready to cry and says 'The medical staff, these are good people'.... you know someone royally messed up. The only context in which you start throwing out the good people line is when you know someone made a mistake. They missed, or hid (which I doubt given it's the best player in the NBA), the initial Achilles injury and KD just ruptured it as a result.

[scratchswinger]

> @SilverBullets said:

> > @TheCityGame said:

> > In the picture where he's touching his thigh, his other hand is on his achilles. Now you've seen it. That's from the Houston game.

> >

> > I think what happened is he tore something in the upper achilles, they called it lower calf, and he went out last night and ruptured the rest of it.

> >

> > But, the achilles tear last night certainly lent credence to all the people claiming the original was achilles. Sure, a calf injury can probably lead to a follow up achilles injury, but you know what else can lead to a follow up achilles injury. . .an initial achilles injury.

> >

> >

>

> I think this is exactly what happened. **When the GM starts his press conference looking ready to cry and says 'The medical staff, these are good people'.... **you know someone royally messed up. The only context in which you start throwing out the good people line is when you know someone made a mistake. They missed, or hid (which I doubt given it's the best player in the NBA), the initial Achilles injury and KD just ruptured it as a result.

 

This makes more sense to me then your post above. What that doctor described is basically the exact description of a torn calf muscle.

[MtlJeff]

Kevin Durant will still get a max from any team in the league, only thing that's out of the question now is a 1-2yr deal with another team since they are losing year 1

 

I could see him taking his option in Golden State and not playing. That might be the most likely thing now

 

Or he's signing a 4yr deal elsewhere and probably only playing 3yrs.

[SilverBullets]

> @scratchswinger said:

> > @SilverBullets said:

> > > @TheCityGame said:

> > > In the picture where he's touching his thigh, his other hand is on his achilles. Now you've seen it. That's from the Houston game.

> > >

> > > I think what happened is he tore something in the upper achilles, they called it lower calf, and he went out last night and ruptured the rest of it.

> > >

> > > But, the achilles tear last night certainly lent credence to all the people claiming the original was achilles. Sure, a calf injury can probably lead to a follow up achilles injury, but you know what else can lead to a follow up achilles injury. . .an initial achilles injury.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I think this is exactly what happened. **When the GM starts his press conference looking ready to cry and says 'The medical staff, these are good people'.... **you know someone royally messed up. The only context in which you start throwing out the good people line is when you know someone made a mistake. They missed, or hid (which I doubt given it's the best player in the NBA), the initial Achilles injury and KD just ruptured it as a result.

>

> This makes more sense to me then your post above. What that doctor described is basically the exact description of a torn calf muscle.

 

yeah I don't really know. I'm not a doctor and I haven't torn my Achilles or strained my calf so this isn't my wheelhouse. I was just regurgitating an article which I found interesting from a guy who has been right more times than not while playing twitter arm chair doctor.

[tocino]

> @TheCityGame said:

> When KD went down ORIGINALLY, literally EVERYONE who doesn't work for the Warriors was like, "achilles" and the Warriors were like, "lower calf".

>

> And, not like it was a "conspiracy theory". He was out for so long if it was just muscle. He grabbed his achilles. It LOOKED like an achilles.

>

> And after last night, they're like (they meaning Bob Myers), "this was achilles but the other one was definitely lower calf."

>

> 

>

> They said KD was "emotional" in the locker room.

>

> Yeah, I would be too if I signed one year deals and realized I might have just lost about $300,000,000 by pushing an injury in a series my team probably wasn't going to win.

>

> Knicks fans right now.

>

> 

>

 

Teams will still lineup to give him a max even if that means you lose out on year 1 due to recovery. If he wants to bet on himself, he could always pick up his ~$30 million player option for next year and hope that he can show case himself enough during the last month of the season and possibly the playoffs to prove he's back. I'm also pretty positive the warriors ownership group will offer him the max if he wants it. Even if he doesn't fully recover it'll put butts in the seats of their new arena. Curry, Klay, and a 50% Durrant still makes the playoffs every year

[cdnglf]

I suppose there's some in every crowd, but man... Toronto fans cheering Durant's injury is embarrassing.

Must have been Maple Leafs bandwagon jumpers.

[scratchswinger]

I am hoping we see an AD trade prior to this weekend. I am ready for that to be over...

[MK7Golf21]

surprised we haven't seen the MRI results yet, maybe they are waiting to get it 100% right this time

[MtlJeff]

> @scratchswinger said:

> I am hoping we see an AD trade prior to this weekend. I am ready for that to be over...

 

The KD injury has so many layers. If he takes his option in Golden State to rehab, I wonder if Kemba goes to new York, or if the Knicks still want to do a Davis trade if they don't think they are getting KD now

 

This is assuming Durant may miss all of next year

 

 

[SilverBullets]

> @MtlJeff said:

> > @scratchswinger said:

> > I am hoping we see an AD trade prior to this weekend. I am ready for that to be over...

>

> The KD injury has so many layers. If he takes his option in Golden State to rehab, I wonder if Kemba goes to new York, or if the Knicks still want to do a Davis trade if they don't think they are getting KD now

>

> This is assuming Durant may miss all of next year

>

>

 

I don't think his best move is to pick up the player option for a year. Next year is going to be a lost year and even if he plays at some point, he's going to be rediscovering his game. I think he has more value in the unknown with a franchise knowing they are going to lose a year and probably get a limited production in the second year.

 

I actually think this may make increase the odds of him staying in GS. Obviously if it comes to light that the Warriors made some major mistake in the handling/diagnosis of the injury, he will want to cut ties with the org. But if that isn't the case, I could see this injury being something which sways him to signing the supermax to stay. Wouldn't rediscovering your game after coming back from a major injury be easier and less time consuming in a environment and style you are already familiar with? Say the worst case scenario happens and he comes back at only 70-75% of what he once was... He's not carrying a team to a title. He just becomes another failed New York Knick star in a longline.

 

All of the story lines about Durant in GSW have flipped. The narrative was that this team could win without him (that doesn't look true right now), that Durant wasn't fully committed (clearly no longer true), that for his legacy he needs to go somewhere else... well now his legacy is that he literally put everything on the line. The narrative the media had put on Durant made one of the quickest 180's we have ever seen.

[SilverBullets]

> @Redjeep83 said:

> surprised we haven't seen the MRI results yet, maybe they are waiting to get it 100% right this time

 

I believe I saw he was going to NY for the MRI to meet with some world renowned specialist. I also imagine there is some work to be done in crafting the messaging on this. The situation could be radioactive for many involved (GSW, NBA handling of injuries, etc.). I'm sure part of the delay is everyone figuring out the messaging here and how much information to give. Possibly give everything at once to avoid a slow drip of info and having this thing drag out forever.

 

Also, timing could be something they are thinking about too. Try not to create even more distractions for the Warriors as they attempt to comeback.

[scratchswinger]

> @MtlJeff said:

> > @scratchswinger said:

> > I am hoping we see an AD trade prior to this weekend. I am ready for that to be over...

>

> The KD injury has so many layers. If he takes his option in Golden State to rehab, I wonder if Kemba goes to new York, or if the Knicks still want to do a Davis trade if they don't think they are getting KD now

>

> This is assuming Durant may miss all of next year

>

>

 

I don't see how anyone > @MtlJeff said:

> > @scratchswinger said:

> > I am hoping we see an AD trade prior to this weekend. I am ready for that to be over...

>

> The KD injury has so many layers. If he takes his option in Golden State to rehab, I wonder if Kemba goes to new York, or if the Knicks still want to do a Davis trade if they don't think they are getting KD now

>

> This is assuming Durant may miss all of next year

>

>

 

Knicks package is garbage is the problem, the Lakers package trumps it all day.

[MtlJeff]

> @scratchswinger said:

> > @MtlJeff said:

> > > @scratchswinger said:

> > > I am hoping we see an AD trade prior to this weekend. I am ready for that to be over...

> >

> > The KD injury has so many layers. If he takes his option in Golden State to rehab, I wonder if Kemba goes to new York, or if the Knicks still want to do a Davis trade if they don't think they are getting KD now

> >

> > This is assuming Durant may miss all of next year

> >

> >

>

> I don't see how anyone > @MtlJeff said:

> > > @scratchswinger said:

> > > I am hoping we see an AD trade prior to this weekend. I am ready for that to be over...

> >

> > The KD injury has so many layers. If he takes his option in Golden State to rehab, I wonder if Kemba goes to new York, or if the Knicks still want to do a Davis trade if they don't think they are getting KD now

> >

> > This is assuming Durant may miss all of next year

> >

> >

>

> Knicks package is garbage is the problem, the Lakers package trumps it all day.

 

I don't know, Ingram has the blood clots issue, lonzo has the blood relatives issue. The Lakers package is good don't get me wrong I just think the #3 pick is a lot better than the 4 because of Barrett, and the two Dallas picks become pretty valuable if porzingis is not healthy.

 

There is also the possibility as mentioned before that they just refuse to trade him to the Lakers on principle, as the spurs did

[scratchswinger]

> @MtlJeff said:

> > @scratchswinger said:

> > > @MtlJeff said:

> > > > @scratchswinger said:

> > > > I am hoping we see an AD trade prior to this weekend. I am ready for that to be over...

> > >

> > > The KD injury has so many layers. If he takes his option in Golden State to rehab, I wonder if Kemba goes to new York, or if the Knicks still want to do a Davis trade if they don't think they are getting KD now

> > >

> > > This is assuming Durant may miss all of next year

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I don't see how anyone > @MtlJeff said:

> > > > @scratchswinger said:

> > > > I am hoping we see an AD trade prior to this weekend. I am ready for that to be over...

> > >

> > > The KD injury has so many layers. If he takes his option in Golden State to rehab, I wonder if Kemba goes to new York, or if the Knicks still want to do a Davis trade if they don't think they are getting KD now

> > >

> > > This is assuming Durant may miss all of next year

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Knicks package is garbage is the problem, the Lakers package trumps it all day.

>

> I don't know, Ingram has the blood clots issue, lonzo has the blood relatives issue. The Lakers package is good don't get me wrong I just think the #3 pick is a lot better than the 4 because of Barrett, and the two Dallas picks become pretty valuable if porzingis is not healthy.

>

> There is also the possibility as mentioned before that they just refuse to trade him to the Lakers on principle, as the spurs did

 

Everyone says Ingram is going to be fine, if you don't like Lonzo's dad then you flip him for something else. For instance you could trade Lonzo for a pick with higher value then a possible lottery pick from Dallas. Those Dallas picks are much bigger gambles then Ingram or Lonzo. The talent the Knicks can offer is not nearly as good as what other teams can offer.

 

Is AD even worth all this? He is good but he is also injured quite a bit. Also he hasn't won anything.... Ingram looked like he has all nba potential for a stretch last year, he kills it on both ends of the floor and is still crazy young. Lonzo could easily be all NBA Defense, he could be on the HOF of Role players.

[MtlJeff]

It's kinda frustrating because I think Davis is a tool, but he's really good and in the NBA you can be a tool and be worth it.

[scratchswinger]

If the Lakers gut all the young talent I hope it doesn't end up being similar to what NY did to get Carmello. AD obviously has potential to be a much better player then Carmello.

[pinhigh27]

didn't durant have multiple MRIs before the recent injury? so missing a partial tear wouldn't be possible.

I still don't understand why davis is trying so hard to tell the celtics to f off. is he playing hard to get and really wants to go there? I have no idea why you'd go out of your way to be like " you're only getting me for one year"

 

If I was the celtics I wouldn't even want him. I'd let kyrie walk and let the young guys loose. are they really any worse without kyrie? not sure

 

[MK7Golf21]

> @pinhigh27 said:

> didn't durant have multiple MRIs before the recent injury? so missing a partial tear wouldn't be possible.

> I still don't understand why davis is trying so hard to tell the celtics to f off. is he playing hard to get and really wants to go there? I have no idea why you'd go out of your way to be like " you're only getting me for one year"

>

> If I was the celtics I wouldn't even want him. I'd let kyrie walk and let the young guys loose. are they really any worse without kyrie? not sure

>

I doubt they missed it but doctors miss tears etc all the time from MRI's. Seen people have multiple MRI's before doctors finally see it whether from adding that ink or whatever to enhance it. I'm thinking his calf muscle was probably still too weak from being injured and that force went into his achilles when he pushed off.

You guys seen the up close slo mo video, pretty crazy. Looks like the whole thing snaps

[pinhigh27]

not on a superstar athlete no they are not going to miss it. I promise they are going over everything with a fine tooth comb.

you don't need contrast to see if the tendon is intact or not.

 

[Qqq123xx]

Ainge has a chance to totally F everything up. Let Kyrie walk and AD go somewhere else.

[pinhigh27]

> @Qqq123xx said:

> Ainge has a chance to totally F everything up. Let Kyrie walk and AD go somewhere else.

 

I think if both of those things happen the celtics will be better off long term. kyrie doesn't really help them and they're going to have to give up too much for davis.