6 iron Swing Speed vs. Driver Swing Speed

[jakkim]

Launh monitor results

I posted this in another forum but was hoping to get a few more responses....

Today I spent some time on a luanch monitor because it has been a few years since I analyzed my swing. Eeverything made sense to me except for the variance in my 6 iron swing speed as compared to my driver swing speed.

After hitting 15 balls (I know it's a small sample) with my 6 iron, which is 38", my average swing speed was 92 mph. I did the same series with my driver which is 45" and my avearge swing speed was 103...only a 11 mph increase. This puzzels me as I would have expected a much greater difference. The fitter mentioned that he would put in 6.5 Rifle shafts which are considered extra stiff in my irons, however I am just barely in a stiff flex for my driver. Is this common or am I doing something wrong.

Has anyone seen the same results?

A couple more details. I was on a Vector LM at golfsmith in one of their fitting bays. I was carrying the ball 195 with my 6 iron and only 270ish with my driver. I was swinging well and felt like I was hitting the ball well. I just don't understand how I could only see a 11mph increase, any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Jekylhyde]

Your 89% ratio is very high. There is a rule of thumb that the 5 iron to Driver ratio is typically about 80%, which would imply slightly less than 80% for a 6 iron. Ihe avg driver speed for the pros is about 117mph and most of them swing their 5 and 6 irons from low to mid 90s to about 100, or slightly above....at an avg speed of 94 for a 5 they'd meet the 80% rule but probably avg a couple mph higher and a ratio of say 82 or 83%.

 

I'm about 85% or slightly higher with a 5 iron of around 105 and driver of 119-123 but I've had ratios as high as 95% or so on the monitor, which were clearly incorrect (because I had brought my own Beltronics Swing Mate (which was reading the same with the 5 iron but 10mph higher with the driver) and because the smash factor on the driver was over 1.55, which is just not realistic).....bottom line is don't get too caught up in monitor numbers....

 

BTW: if you feel your driver ss is a little lower thaan you'd like a weighted club is a great way to increase it 5mph or so....

[Fenterman]

Most of the guys on our devices who swing drivers between 95-105 mph typically have 6 iron swingspeeds in the 78-83 mph range. Your situation would be highly unusual to have 90+ 6 iron speed but only 103 mph driver.

[wildwilly911]

lots of variables, was ball position in the same spot. your distance with driver is not accurate 270 carry with 103 ss (not). make sure the person doing the fitting knows what he is doing

[dethman]

lots of variables, was ball position in the same spot. your distance with driver is not accurate 270 carry with 103 ss (not). make sure the person doing the fitting knows what he is doing

 

true, you should not be getting 270 carry with 103 driver ss. just take it as that launch monitor was WACK.

[jakkim]

lots of variables, was ball position in the same spot. your distance with driver is not accurate 270 carry with 103 ss (not). make sure the person doing the fitting knows what he is doing

 

This really iritates me because I was hessitant going to Golfsmith because I didn't trust that they know what they are talking about. The only thing is they were the only shop/course around with a launch monitor that doesn't cost $100 bucks to use if you don't buy their clubs.

 

In terms of ball position, he lined the ball up with the black line facing the camera about 4-6 inches behind the main lense. Was this correct, or should the ball have been lined up direcly with the lense?

 

My irons seemed to be pretty accurate, distance, ball speed, ect...but the driver just seemed way off. If I had to estimate I would assume that my driver swing speed is around 110...but that is just my guess and have nothing to base it on.

 

Just for kicks I played around with a Speed Stick and swing with my normal swing I was hitting 130+...never got to 140. I have no idea what that translates into with an actual club but I think it's more than 103....

[iskysoma01]

My swing speed is 107 avg and I carry about 270.

[mspeedpika]

I think the standard is about 105 equals to 250-260 carry from the numerous launch monitors I have been on

[BrisVegas]

Rifles 6.5 are a very stiff shaft. Depending on your tempo, ie. how much load you put on the shaft, I'd have thought a 5 iron swing close to 100mph would be needed to get the most out of it. Rifle 6.0 or DG S300 sound like they'd be a better fit.

 

My tempo is med-slow (1.22 secs) and I swing a 5 iron at 91-93 mph. My driver is typically 110mph, with a little headroom for "silly" swings. I've never been comfortable swinging anything stiffer than S300/6.0 (I've played both before) in irons. I have played X flex graphite driver shafts in the past, but I think and S flex is a better fit.

 

My advice, find a well-respected club fitter and trust their advice. It takes the guesswork out of things. I got my gear checked out again last week by a PGA pro and clubmaker (I visit the same guy every couple of years) and for $50 all the lie and lofts were adjusted and the flexes double-checked. Money well spent to know your gear fits you perfectly.

[hoganfan924]

Vector Swing speed numbers are unreliable. A vector does not directly measure clubhead speed in the way that a doppler system does (like zelocity). The Vector takes two pictures (at and shortly after impact) and calculates the ball speed only (distance between the two balls in the picture divided by the time between the two pictures = ballspeed). It then has to use a formula with an estimated smash facor to estimate a clubhead speed, but of course they don't tell you this. It appears to me that they must use about a 1.5 smash factor for driver which would only be the case with perfect sweet spot contant. So if you don't hit it perfectly, it will underestimate your clubhead speed. By the same token, if you deloft an iron at impact and hit it low but with more ball speed, the Vector would overestimate the iron clubhead speed.

[Scott26]

Awesome explanation! My swing speed with driver is 105. I ordered a set of CG1's from Cleveland Rep and wanted them matched to my S300's in my TA 3's. He suggested 6.0 in the rifle. I don't swing my irons as aggressively as my driver so my ratio may be a little different. I had the S300 shafts fit and didnt think that I should have done the rifles when he suggested that the frequency and flex were almost exact. I love the performance of the shafts. However I am a half club shorter on a stock swing. I can let the shaft out a little and there is a very noticable difference in length. My question is should I have gone with a 5.0 or 5.5 in the rifle flighted? Any input would be helpful.

 

Thanks

[HarboursideTC]

IMO and IME, a Rifle 6.0 is a 1/2 step above an S300 (about 1/2 way between and S300 and an X100). Of course this is only an estimate, as Rifles are frequency tested and Dynamic Golds are only sorted by weight. This could lead to a bigger/smaller variation, depending on exactly what specific DG shaft you are testing against.

 

Some people, me included, tend to swing a little easier and a little smoother with their irons and can play a softer flex.

 

IMO, launch monitors are never very accurate in terms of swing speed and ball flight. Go to www.royalprecision.com to match your average 6-iron flight to the correct shaft.

 

David

[blainer06]

Mine are really close about 4 weeks ago when i was fitted for my new driver. My 6 iron was 111 mph & my driver was 121 mph and I am only 5' 8" and 150 lbs. All my irons are right there at that mark so my 2 speeds are extremely close together for some reason. My 6 iron i hit at a any distance from about 195-210 give or take depending on elevation, wind and what not

[mbs_paddy]

I think the LM was wack too. sounds like your Driver SS should be more like 106-108 or so to be carrying it 270. Should be about right b/c i carry about 285 with 113-116

[JLo_73]

Driver SS of 105 should be about 260-265 carry. 6 iron SS of 90 should be about 180 carry. My ratio is right in line with the 80-85%, anything more seems out of whack

[Buzzkill]

[quote name='iskysoma01' timestamp='1189967144' post='720893']
My swing speed is 107 avg and I carry about 270.
[/quote]

Sure....

[kloyd0306]

I'd get a second opinion.

In my experience - 15 to 18mph difference.

Often, a more accomplished player can "find" a wee bit extra with the driver, especially when faced with a wide fairway.

On the same note, however, the accomplished player tends toward a more rhythmical swing with irons and only "pours it on" when he needs to, to create something, like say, out of the rough.

In an experimental situation (testing clubs and shafts) - it's less significant. But under playing conditions, a swing with the driver cannot be compared with a swing with the irons.

And you don't have to take my word for it - Bobby Jones declares exactly that in his writings.

Drivers and fairway woods are for distance. Irons are for accuracy - or, as a good friends says: "It's not how FAR you hit your irons, it's how CLOSE".

[GolfHound]

I have the same problem. I feel that I am hitting my driver way short of what I should be. on the flightscope monitor i tried out this weekend, my 6iron was going 190-195 yards but my driver was only carrying 250-255y. These were good, solid hits.

Should this be the ratio or should I be hitting my driver another 15-20y?

[Djerger]

i think you had 2 problems. no way 92 swing speed is 195 carry with 6-iron......thats 180-185 all day.....i am scratch and at golfsmith i have and still can pinpoint my exact iron speed before given the result....last time there.......at 90 with very slow to mid tempo i was fitted in between s and x.....now with delofted 6 iron or extended perhaps but not stock 6 iron. Driver carry is 295. have to use an x.........i actually prefer a uniflex in my shafts and prefer to feel the irons. that does not work with the driver as i am way more accurate taking an aggressive swing.

sounds like you need some rifle 6.0s, s300s.....driver i would try a stiff, if it spins too much....tip it a bit....problem solved......tipping a stiff only helps so much and when you get to 108 or higher the flex is too soft......you can get good spin results cause of a tip stiff, but basically i would get nutted pushes and pulls.... use a stiff non tipped and you get overly spinning push fades and pull hooks....

for example a 2009 tp burner head with the reax stiff tp 65 shaft.......all over the place spun too much....i tipped it an inch.....and got really close, spin #s great....but still tended get too much dispersion especially once loose.....then i added lead tape to the shaft below the grip. a good 10 inches to add some weight. turning that 65 into 70-75...slows down the swing a bit so the shaft can handle it......if you add weight to the head you simply make the tip weaker and spin #s with go up.......

[Bad9]

[quote name='jakkim' timestamp='1189953150' post='720657']
I posted this in another forum but was hoping to get a few more responses....

Today I spent some time on a luanch monitor because it has been a few years since I analyzed my swing. Eeverything made sense to me except for the variance in my 6 iron swing speed as compared to my driver swing speed.

After hitting 15 balls (I know it's a small sample) with my 6 iron, which is 38", my average swing speed was 92 mph. I did the same series with my driver which is 45" and my avearge swing speed was 103...only a 11 mph increase. This puzzels me as I would have expected a much greater difference. The fitter mentioned that he would put in 6.5 Rifle shafts which are considered extra stiff in my irons, however I am just barely in a stiff flex for my driver. Is this common or am I doing something wrong.

Has anyone seen the same results?

A couple more details. I was on a Vector LM at golfsmith in one of their fitting bays. I was carrying the ball 195 with my 6 iron and only 270ish with my driver. I was swinging well and felt like I was hitting the ball well. I just don't understand how I could only see a 11mph increase, any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
[/quote]

One factor no one else seems to have mentioned is your 38" 6 iron. That's anywhere from 1/2" to 3/4" longer than most modern 6 irons (presuming you are using a steel shafted iron). I don't know how much of a difference it would make but it probably has some effect.

[JCAG]

[quote name='Bad9' timestamp='1291120676' post='2815754']
[quote name='jakkim' timestamp='1189953150' post='720657']
I posted this in another forum but was hoping to get a few more responses....

Today I spent some time on a luanch monitor because it has been a few years since I analyzed my swing. Eeverything made sense to me except for the variance in my 6 iron swing speed as compared to my driver swing speed.

After hitting 15 balls (I know it's a small sample) with my 6 iron, which is 38", my average swing speed was 92 mph. I did the same series with my driver which is 45" and my avearge swing speed was 103...only a 11 mph increase. This puzzels me as I would have expected a much greater difference. The fitter mentioned that he would put in 6.5 Rifle shafts which are considered extra stiff in my irons, however I am just barely in a stiff flex for my driver. Is this common or am I doing something wrong.

Has anyone seen the same results?

A couple more details. I was on a Vector LM at golfsmith in one of their fitting bays. I was carrying the ball 195 with my 6 iron and only 270ish with my driver. I was swinging well and felt like I was hitting the ball well. I just don't understand how I could only see a 11mph increase, any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks
[/quote]

One factor no one else seems to have mentioned is your 38" 6 iron. That's anywhere from 1/2" to 3/4" longer than most modern 6 irons (presuming you are using a steel shafted iron). I don't know how much of a difference it would make but it probably has some effect.
[/quote]

Typically a golfer will swing their 5 iron 12 to 18mph less then their driver so with a 6 iron it will be about 14 to 20mph less. Ya, Ya I know about club length differences but as I said AVERAGE.

[Cygnus X1]

I was in a launch monitor yesterday and was hitting my 6-iron (Taylormade Burner '09, Project X 6.5) about 200 with a 95mph SS, and my driver (Titleist 910D2, RIP60X) was going around 290-ish (110mph SS, about 270 carry). Sound realistic or was the LM messed up?

[pdaero]

Seems to me like some ss/carry numbers you guys are getting is a little different.. For one, I don't see how a 107 SS will give a 270 carry. I swing about 110 and 265 is optimum for me, but then again I hit it with pretty low spin and can probably increase that some. One of my good friends swings anywhere from 115-117 consistently and carries about 280-282 with near perfect launch/spin.

To the OP: My driver/6 iron gap is a little larger than most, IMO, because I am more of a finesse iron player and an aggressive/confident swinger with the driver. I would imagine that It is 110 and 90.. The S300 works well enough for me not to change. I would have to devote a tremendous amount of time in order to play X in irons..

[pwrfade]

[quote name='Fenterman' timestamp='1189958810' post='720770']
Most of the guys on our devices who swing drivers between 95-105 mph typically have 6 iron swingspeeds in the 78-83 mph range. Your situation would be highly unusual to have 90+ 6 iron speed but only 103 mph driver.
[/quote]

I would agree with that - at least for me - I swing my driver around 98 mph - and my 6 iron swing speed is about 82 mph on average - once I get really warm I can occasionally get the 6 iron up in the higher 80's - but about 100 mph is top end on the driver

[silverfox69]

[quote name='Scott26' timestamp='1202224797' post='901085']
Awesome explanation! My swing speed with driver is 105. I ordered a set of CG1's from Cleveland Rep and wanted them matched to my S300's in my TA 3's. He suggested 6.0 in the rifle. I don't swing my irons as aggressively as my driver so my ratio may be a little different. I had the S300 shafts fit and didnt think that I should have done the rifles when he suggested that the frequency and flex were almost exact. I love the performance of the shafts. However I am a half club shorter on a stock swing. I can let the shaft out a little and there is a very noticable difference in length. My question is should I have gone with a 5.0 or 5.5 in the rifle flighted? Any input would be helpful.

Thanks
[/quote]

Keep in mind often blades may have weaker lofts, that a lot of other game improvment clubs will have, for example blade PW typically be 48-50* where a lot of sets have 46* or even 45* PW

[nitram]

Through the years, using a factor of 2.5 has worked very well for me in determining swing speeds. For example:

6I = 96
5I = 98.5
4I = 101
3I = 103.5
5W = 106
3W = 108.5
D = 111

In my personal experience back in October, these numbers are an exact match to what the Shaft Optimizer generated.

[Relaxxx]

[quote name='nitram' timestamp='1294718861' post='2888245']
Through the years, using a factor of 2.5 has worked very well for me in determining swing speeds. For example:

6I = 96
5I = 98.5
4I = 101
3I = 103.5
5W = 106
3W = 108.5
D = 111

In my personal experience back in October, these numbers are an exact match to what the Shaft Optimizer generated.
[/quote]

Explain the math you use for this please. I'd like to know how fast I swing all of my clubs.

[Buzzkill]

[quote name='Eternal_Envoy' timestamp='1294718976' post='2888249']
[quote name='nitram' timestamp='1294718861' post='2888245']
Through the years, using a factor of 2.5 has worked very well for me in determining swing speeds. For example:

6I = 96
5I = 98.5
4I = 101
3I = 103.5
5W = 106
3W = 108.5
D = 111

In my personal experience back in October, these numbers are an exact match to what the Shaft Optimizer generated.
[/quote]

Explain the math you use for this please. I'd like to know how fast I swing all of my clubs.
[/quote]

Divide your carry distance for a certain club by 2.3 (2.3 is more realistic than 2.5) and that will give you the swing speed. Example: you carry your driver 230 yards, therefore your swing speed is 100 mph.

[Relaxxx]

[quote name='Buzzkill' timestamp='1294719389' post='2888262']
[quote name='Eternal_Envoy' timestamp='1294718976' post='2888249']
[quote name='nitram' timestamp='1294718861' post='2888245']
Through the years, using a factor of 2.5 has worked very well for me in determining swing speeds. For example:

6I = 96
5I = 98.5
4I = 101
3I = 103.5
5W = 106
3W = 108.5
D = 111

In my personal experience back in October, these numbers are an exact match to what the Shaft Optimizer generated.
[/quote]

Explain the math you use for this please. I'd like to know how fast I swing all of my clubs.
[/quote]

Divide your carry distance for a certain club by 2.3 (2.3 is more realistic than 2.5) and that will give you the swing speed. Example: you carry your driver 230 yards, therefore your swing speed is 100 mph.
[/quote]

I don't think that's right......
I don't swing a club 129 MPH.....
But I know my carry distance is correct because I've been on a trackman and used GPS and rangefinders to find out what it is.

[Buzzkill]

[quote name='Eternal_Envoy' timestamp='1294719591' post='2888268']
[quote name='Buzzkill' timestamp='1294719389' post='2888262']
[quote name='Eternal_Envoy' timestamp='1294718976' post='2888249']
[quote name='nitram' timestamp='1294718861' post='2888245']
Through the years, using a factor of 2.5 has worked very well for me in determining swing speeds. For example:

6I = 96
5I = 98.5
4I = 101
3I = 103.5
5W = 106
3W = 108.5
D = 111

In my personal experience back in October, these numbers are an exact match to what the Shaft Optimizer generated.
[/quote]

Explain the math you use for this please. I'd like to know how fast I swing all of my clubs.
[/quote]

Divide your carry distance for a certain club by 2.3 (2.3 is more realistic than 2.5) and that will give you the swing speed. Example: you carry your driver 230 yards, therefore your swing speed is 100 mph.
[/quote]

I don't think that's right......
I don't swing a club 129 MPH.....
But I know my carry distance is correct because I've been on a trackman and used GPS and rangefinders to find out what it is.
[/quote]

I use info from this site:
http://www.calgolftech.com/whats_new/driver22.html

Here's a paragraph from the reading:
Smash Factor is a little too abstract for most players. I like simple answers. “If I swing at 100 MPH, how far should I hit the ball?”.We use the equation:.Carry distance equals swingspeed in miles per hour times 2.3 yards. Even 2.3 yards of carry distance for each MPH of swingspeed is granting the benefit of the doubt. When we measure swing speeds and carry distances on our Achiever launch monitor, we rarely find a player who exceeds 2.2 yards for each mile an hour of swing speed. Here again, misinformation is common. For some reason, players think that they should hit the ball farther than they can. Carry distance is governed by the laws of physics and you can’t beat that rap.