2019 Rules - YELLOW Penalty Areas

[Sawgrass]

From this:

 

"Individual Committees would remain free to choose what to mark as a penalty area (and so for example could decide only to mark traditional water hazards) and when to mark a penalty area as yellow (such as to preserve the challenge of playing a particular hole)."

 

".....and when to mark a penalty area as yellow"

 

 

All PA's were to be marked RED. The EXCEPTION was a committee could mark an area yellow to "preserve the challenge".

 

But if you walked onto a course that had no markings, every PA was to be red. And still is I believe. Though that may have changed in their haste.

Yes, an unmarked penalty area is considered a red penalty area. But nevertheless, the RBs had always intended to allow a mix of yellow and red markings wherever a committee felt appropriate. There was no "haste" in that, though there seems to have been some short-sighted wording.

[bladehunter]

From this:

 

“Individual Committees would remain free to choose what to mark as a penalty area (and so for example could decide only to mark traditional water hazards) and when to mark a penalty area as yellow (such as to preserve the challenge of playing a particular hole).”

 

“.....and when to mark a penalty area as yellow”

 

 

All PA’s were to be marked RED. The EXCEPTION was a committee could mark an area yellow to “preserve the challenge”.

 

But if you walked onto a course that had no markings, every PA was to be red. And still is I believe. Though that may have changed in their haste.

Talked to my pro again today. And he confirmed that he believed this ^^ too. Although I’m not calling his opinion gospel by any stretch.

 

He repeated “ I think they intend all PA to be marked red unless it’s an extreme example the committee wants yellow “.

[Newby]

Yes, an unmarked penalty area is considered a red penalty area.

 

That's what the definition said and says.

 

If the colour of a penalty area has not been marked or indicated by the Committee, it is treated as a red penalty area.

[nsxguy]

Ummmm,,,,,,,, if a penalty area is unmarked how does one know it's a penalty area ? :blink:

[DaveLeeNC]

If a course has a large number of yellow areas that they are converting to red, at what point is a handicap re-rating appropriate?

 

Dave

[bladehunter]

Ummmm,,,,,,,, if a penalty area is unmarked how does one know it's a penalty area ? :blink:

 

I thought any water was a PA ? Marked or not

[bladehunter]

If a course has a large number of yellow areas that they are converting to red, at what point is a handicap re-rating appropriate?

 

Dave

 

I’d love to see our course re rated. But I bet if actually would be rated overall harder because of the tree growth since the last rating. 1 par 5 isn’t reachabke at all and several par 4s have blind doglegs now that weren’t there when trees were shorter.

 

But to your point several yellows that will be red and therefore less penal.

[nsxguy]

Ummmm,,,,,,,, if a penalty area is unmarked how does one know it's a penalty area ? :blink:

 

I thought any water was a PA ? Marked or not

 

I believe water that is supposed to be there is a PA.

 

But a PA does not necessarily have water in it.

[Newby]

Ummmm,,,,,,,, if a penalty area is unmarked how does one know it's a penalty area ? :blink:

When the edge of a body of water is not defined by the Committee, the edge of that penalty area is defined by its natural boundaries (that is, where the ground slopes down to form the depression that can hold the water).

[rahatbmc]

If a course has a large number of yellow areas that they are converting to red, at what point is a handicap re-rating appropriate?

 

Dave

 

If you are referring to the handicap allocation by hole, that allocation is determined by the Club and can be changed by the Club at any time. If you are referring to the Course Rating/Slope, the USGA has already revised the Course Rating System to reflect the impact of Penalty Areas.

[DaveLeeNC]

If a course has a large number of yellow areas that they are converting to red, at what point is a handicap re-rating appropriate?

 

Dave

 

If you are referring to the handicap allocation by hole, that allocation is determined by the Club and can be changed by the Club at any time. If you are referring to the Course Rating/Slope, the USGA has already revised the Course Rating System to reflect the impact of Penalty Areas.

 

I am referring to slope and 'course rating' and the fact that pretty much all courses right now are rated (slope and CR) under the old system where those results might be different now given (possible) changes from yellow to red boundaries.

 

dave

[DaveLeeNC]

If a course has a large number of yellow areas that they are converting to red, at what point is a handicap re-rating appropriate?

 

Dave

 

If you are referring to the handicap allocation by hole, that allocation is determined by the Club and can be changed by the Club at any time. If you are referring to the Course Rating/Slope, the USGA has already revised the Course Rating System to reflect the impact of Penalty Areas.

 

I am referring to slope and 'course rating' and the fact that pretty much all courses right now are rated (slope and CR) under the old system where those results might be different now given (possible) changes from yellow to red boundaries.

 

dave

 

USGA Handicap Rule 14-5-b requires the 'club' to notify the relevant authorized golf association of permanent changes. I was wondering if there were guidelines out there regarding specifically changes from yellow to red boundaries.

 

dave

[Mr. Bean]

 

If you are referring to the Course Rating/Slope, the USGA has already revised the Course Rating System to reflect the impact of Penalty Areas.

 

What exactly is the impact of Penalty Areas?

[rahatbmc]

 

If you are referring to the Course Rating/Slope, the USGA has already revised the Course Rating System to reflect the impact of Penalty Areas.

 

What exactly is the impact of Penalty Areas?

 

From the USGA Handicap Department & Course Rating Committee:

 

“The perception is a golf course will play easier if Penalty Areas are adopted in areas previously played as Out of Bounds or Extreme Rough (such as high fescue) since a player could drop out of a Penalty Area with a one-stroke penalty as opposed to a stroke and distance penalty.”

[Sawgrass]

 

If you are referring to the Course Rating/Slope, the USGA has already revised the Course Rating System to reflect the impact of Penalty Areas.

 

What exactly is the impact of Penalty Areas?

 

From the USGA Handicap Department & Course Rating Committee:

 

“The perception is a golf course will play easier if Penalty Areas are adopted in areas previously played as Out of Bounds or Extreme Rough (such as high fescue) since a player could drop out of a Penalty Area with a one-stroke penalty as opposed to a stroke and distance penalty.”

Is that statement what you’re calling a revision to the course rating system?

[Mr. Bean]

If you are referring to the Course Rating/Slope, the USGA has already revised the Course Rating System to reflect the impact of Penalty Areas.

 

What exactly is the impact of Penalty Areas?

 

From the USGA Handicap Department & Course Rating Committee:

 

“The perception is a golf course will play easier if Penalty Areas are adopted in areas previously played as Out of Bounds or Extreme Rough (such as high fescue) since a player could drop out of a Penalty Area with a one-stroke penalty as opposed to a stroke and distance penalty.”

Is that statement what you’re calling a revision to the course rating system?

 

My question exactly.

 

If multiple red PA's are used instead of OB's the course needs to be rated anew. That is a standard procedure every time the difficulty of a course has been changed, nothing new in that.

[rahatbmc]

If you are referring to the Course Rating/Slope, the USGA has already revised the Course Rating System to reflect the impact of Penalty Areas.

 

What exactly is the impact of Penalty Areas?

 

From the USGA Handicap Department & Course Rating Committee:

 

“The perception is a golf course will play easier if Penalty Areas are adopted in areas previously played as Out of Bounds or Extreme Rough (such as high fescue) since a player could drop out of a Penalty Area with a one-stroke penalty as opposed to a stroke and distance penalty.”

Is that statement what you’re calling a revision to the course rating system?

 

My question exactly.

 

If multiple red PA's are used instead of OB's the course needs to be rated anew. That is a standard procedure every time the difficulty of a course has been changed, nothing new in that.

 

 

Some of the changes:

 

The Table Values for Penalty Area - Crossing ( previously OB/Extreme Rough) have been changed, For example, 140 yard carry for scratch was 3, now 2. 140 yard carry for bogey was 6, now 5.

The Weighting in the final calculation for PA-C has been reduced for Scratch, increased for Bogey.

 

The Table Values for Penaly Area-Lateral (previously Water Hazard) have had some changes and new adjustments have been added.

 

The weighting in the final calculation has been reduced for Bogey.

[Mr. Bean]

 

Some of the changes:

 

The Table Values for Penalty Area - Crossing ( previously OB/Extreme Rough) have been changed, For example, 140 yard carry for scratch was 3, now 2. 140 yard carry for bogey was 6, now 5.

The Weighting in the final calculation for PA-C has been reduced for Scratch, increased for Bogey.

 

The Table Values for Penaly Area-Lateral (previously Water Hazard) have had some changes and new adjustments have been added.

 

The weighting in the final calculation has been reduced for Bogey.

 

Now THAT is something else and very welcome indeed! If such revised parameters make it possible to just recalculate it will save a lot of time and money for the courses.

[DaveLeeNC]

If you are referring to the Course Rating/Slope, the USGA has already revised the Course Rating System to reflect the impact of Penalty Areas.

 

What exactly is the impact of Penalty Areas?

 

From the USGA Handicap Department & Course Rating Committee:

 

“The perception is a golf course will play easier if Penalty Areas are adopted in areas previously played as Out of Bounds or Extreme Rough (such as high fescue) since a player could drop out of a Penalty Area with a one-stroke penalty as opposed to a stroke and distance penalty.”

Is that statement what you’re calling a revision to the course rating system?

 

My question exactly.

 

If multiple red PA's are used instead of OB's the course needs to be rated anew. That is a standard procedure every time the difficulty of a course has been changed, nothing new in that.

 

The fact that this change in difficulty is 'enabled by' a rules change and the (potential) to affect the vast majority of courses seems unique in my mind. I don't recall any other rules cycle change like this one WRT to CR/Slope. But I didn't start paying close attention to this stuff until maybe 15 years ago.

 

dave

[bladehunter]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

[Sawgrass]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

Or that the math can simply be done and then announced . . . Or what?

[rogolf]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

Or that the math can simply be done and then announced . . . Or what?

I think that this type of "re-rating" can be done on the computer in the office (maybe that's what you're saying also?) and that it takes a lot of 0.01s to make a difference in course rating or slope rating.

[Newby]

I think that this type of "re-rating" can be done on the computer in the office (maybe that's what you're saying also?) and that it takes a lot of 0.01s to make a difference in course rating or slope rating.

 

It can and is now.

[rahatbmc]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

 

We can't start re-rating courses until Clubs re-mark their courses. If a Club wants to maintain high fescue or a quarry as an integral part of the course and not a penalty area, that's their call.

[bladehunter]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

Or that the math can simply be done and then announced . . . Or what?

 

Yea. As a formerly confused guy. I’m still confused. Lol

 

 

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

[nsxguy]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

Or that the math can simply be done and then announced . . . Or what?

 

Yea. As a formerly confused guy. I'm still confused. Lol

 

 

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

Hmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Wonder if the yellow PAs days are numbered ??? :blink:

[bladehunter]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

Or that the math can simply be done and then announced . . . Or what?

 

Yea. As a formerly confused guy. I'm still confused. Lol

 

 

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

Hmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Wonder if the yellow PAs days are numbered ??? :blink:

 

I’d say yes mostly. At least at the muni and small course level. Save $ on paint. Lol

[rahatbmc]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

Or that the math can simply be done and then announced . . . Or what?

 

Yea. As a formerly confused guy. I'm still confused. Lol

 

 

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

Since scores can be posted all year in Carolina and your course has already been re-marked, the Club should contact the Carolinas Golf Association to find out what their procedure is in regard to re-rating courses for the new rules.

[nsxguy]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

Or that the math can simply be done and then announced . . . Or what?

 

Yea. As a formerly confused guy. I'm still confused. Lol

 

 

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

Since scores can be posted all year in Carolina and your course has already been re-marked, the Club should contact the Carolinas Golf Association to find out what their procedure is in regard to re-rating courses for the new rules.

 

I can see how adding penalty areas might change ratings but how can simply changing existing yellows to red do that in any significant manner ?

[Newby]

We have two PAs that we will keep as yellow. The lateral relief available for red is far too generous in these particular cases. This was decided by members not the committee.