2019 Rules - YELLOW Penalty Areas

[cardoustie]

I say mark everything RED. The new rules are to add simplicity!! Here's an example:

 

Our 12th is a pig of a par 3 hole and it was yellow. 220 over a lake. Common drop was still a 110 yard shot over the lake at the ladies tee ... when it was yellow staked.

 

It's now RED as many members pointed out it wasn't fair to carry the hazard and then have to do it again due to an unlucky backwards and/or sideways bounce, Our pro's and super still wanted it yellow ... this is what convinced them (and I do not see it brought up earlier in this thread)

 

On this hole it is quite common to carry the hazard and be long or in a greenside trap and then have your second shot trickle down the severely sloped and fast green and run into the lake short of the green. (like a player behind the 15th green at Augusta National GC). So you meet the original design intent to carry the hazard, do so and then hit a delicate flop 1 foot too far and now you have to walk back 130 yards to play your 4th shot ... that is not equitable and a major slowdown for the group and the course (I wish this would be tackled by the ruling bodies)

[Mr. Bean]

We have two PAs that we will keep as yellow. The lateral relief available for red is far too generous in these particular cases. This was decided by members not the committee.

 

Any pictures of those holes? I have a hard time to picture a hole where red stakes with no opposite edge option would give any benefit compared to current yellow PA reference point definition.

[Sawgrass]

Rahatbmc-

So . When do these calculations occur ? Or are you citing them to agree that courses may need to be re-rated ?

Or that the math can simply be done and then announced . . . Or what?

 

Yea. As a formerly confused guy. I'm still confused. Lol

 

 

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

I'm buying me some stock in companies that make red paint!

[HitEmTrue]

So you meet the original design intent to carry the hazard, do so and then hit a delicate flop 1 foot too far and now you have to walk back 130 yards to play your 4th shot ... that is not equitable and a major slowdown for the group and the course (I wish this would be tackled by the ruling bodies)

 

It’s already been tackled by the ruling bodies...stroke and distance. No one chooses that option ?

[Mr. Bean]

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

How?

 

Pictures, please!

[Augster]

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

How?

 

Pictures, please!

 

Any woods on either side that a ball could easily be lost in, that now gets changed to a red PA, will make that hole easier.

 

On our 6th hole you hit the drive through a “chute”. If you push or pull, and the trees don’t spit it out, you were hitting a provisional. Sometimes more than one. Now, it’s all marked red. One swing, then walk up, look, and drop.

 

On our 7th hole the entire left side was white, OB. Now it’s red. No more provisionals. I had more problems with the approach than the drive. The OB stakes were only 10 yards off the green on the left. You hook anything from the fairway and it was gone. Rehit. Now, just drop up by the green.

 

15th hole, left woods are now red PA. 18th hole left woods are now red PA.

 

Every course is an easy course if you hit it straight all the time. These changes above will make my course significantly easier to play.

 

BUT, I doubt it’ll matter for course rating. Even with a drop instead of hitting 3 from the tee, most likely score will be a double. It’ll max out ESC more often than not. Whereas rehitting from the tee was a virtual guarantee of an ESC score.

 

What I’m trying to say, I guess, is that gross scores in those areas will be lower than they used to be. BUT, when finding those areas, you’ll likely end up at or over ESC anyway. So it shouldn’t be much of a change to rating.

[Mr. Bean]

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

How?

 

Pictures, please!

 

Any woods on either side that a ball could easily be lost in, that now gets changed to a red PA, will make that hole easier.

 

On our 6th hole you hit the drive through a "chute". If you push or pull, and the trees don't spit it out, you were hitting a provisional. Sometimes more than one. Now, it's all marked red. One swing, then walk up, look, and drop.

 

On our 7th hole the entire left side was white, OB. Now it's red. No more provisionals. I had more problems with the approach than the drive. The OB stakes were only 10 yards off the green on the left. You hook anything from the fairway and it was gone. Rehit. Now, just drop up by the green.

 

15th hole, left woods are now red PA. 18th hole left woods are now red PA.

 

Every course is an easy course if you hit it straight all the time. These changes above will make my course significantly easier to play.

 

BUT, I doubt it'll matter for course rating. Even with a drop instead of hitting 3 from the tee, most likely score will be a double. It'll max out ESC more often than not. Whereas rehitting from the tee was a virtual guarantee of an ESC score.

 

What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that gross scores in those areas will be lower than they used to be. BUT, when finding those areas, you'll likely end up at or over ESC anyway. So it shouldn't be much of a change to rating.

 

We are clearly talking of two different issues here. I am talking about changing YELLOW Penalty Areas to RED Penalty Areas.

 

So, your course has changed all OB's into red PA's, is that it?

[Augster]

 

 

We are clearly talking of two different issues here. I am talking about changing YELLOW Penalty Areas to RED Penalty Areas.

 

So, your course has changed all OB's into red PA's, is that it?

 

Oops. My bad. I do agree changing yellow to red will have negligible effect on course rating.

 

Correct that my course is getting easier. What used to be woods or OB is now going to be red PA. It’ll be an insignificant change to handicaps, but it will speed play. Especially in club events where, it seems, nobody has ever heard of a provisional ball. :)

[bladehunter]

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

How?

 

Pictures, please!

 

1 is identical to the par 3 cardoustie describes above. Yellow on left side of island green. Red in front. You can carry red hit land and cross yellow. That leaves you another 140 yard shot . You can also hit right bunker and easily hit it too hard and go off left of green into the water over yellow. It’s all down hill . Then you try the impossible again. Lol. Making it red makes it easier.

 

 

Second is same pond. Opposite side par 4. Same scenario just flipped left to right.

[rogolf]

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

How?

 

Pictures, please!

 

1 is identical to the par 3 cardoustie describes above. Yellow on left side of island green. Red in front. You can carry red hit land and cross yellow. That leaves you another 140 yard shot . You can also hit right bunker and easily hit it too hard and go off left of green into the water over yellow. It's all down hill . Then you try the impossible again. Lol. Making it red makes it easier.

 

 

Second is same pond. Opposite side par 4. Same scenario just flipped left to right.

Relaxed Rules, lower course rating, lower handicap..... golfer's dream. You shouldn't worry about it.

[Mr. Bean]

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

How?

 

Pictures, please!

 

1 is identical to the par 3 cardoustie describes above. Yellow on left side of island green. Red in front. You can carry red hit land and cross yellow. That leaves you another 140 yard shot . You can also hit right bunker and easily hit it too hard and go off left of green into the water over yellow. It's all down hill . Then you try the impossible again. Lol. Making it red makes it easier.

 

 

Second is same pond. Opposite side par 4. Same scenario just flipped left to right.

 

As we have spoken here it may be possible to drop on the green side even with yellow stakes. That is why I would like to see pictures. Mere verbal description about an island green is not sufficient to tell whether this change from yellow to red significantly changes the situation. Probably does but still it would be nice to see with one's own eyes.

[Mr. Bean]

Back to the Yellow PA's.

 

I just learned that a clarification is about to be published regarding the Reference Point being in the same yellow PA as where the ball lies. This will NOT be allowed, i.e. it is not possible to have a Reference Point in the same yellow PA where the ball went in.

 

This information has come directly from R&A.

[bladehunter]

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

How?

 

Pictures, please!

 

1 is identical to the par 3 cardoustie describes above. Yellow on left side of island green. Red in front. You can carry red hit land and cross yellow. That leaves you another 140 yard shot . You can also hit right bunker and easily hit it too hard and go off left of green into the water over yellow. It's all down hill . Then you try the impossible again. Lol. Making it red makes it easier.

 

 

Second is same pond. Opposite side par 4. Same scenario just flipped left to right.

 

As we have spoken here it may be possible to drop on the green side even with yellow stakes. That is why I would like to see pictures. Mere verbal description about an island green is not sufficient to tell whether this change from yellow to red significantly changes the situation. Probably does but still it would be nice to see with one's own eyes.

 

If I get out today I’ll take some pics and post tonight. And you could be correct.

[Mr. Bean]

My course has re marked everything red as of yesterday. Definitely makes 2 holes easier.

 

How?

 

Pictures, please!

 

1 is identical to the par 3 cardoustie describes above. Yellow on left side of island green. Red in front. You can carry red hit land and cross yellow. That leaves you another 140 yard shot . You can also hit right bunker and easily hit it too hard and go off left of green into the water over yellow. It's all down hill . Then you try the impossible again. Lol. Making it red makes it easier.

 

 

Second is same pond. Opposite side par 4. Same scenario just flipped left to right.

 

As we have spoken here it may be possible to drop on the green side even with yellow stakes. That is why I would like to see pictures. Mere verbal description about an island green is not sufficient to tell whether this change from yellow to red significantly changes the situation. Probably does but still it would be nice to see with one's own eyes.

 

If I get out today I'll take some pics and post tonight. And you could be correct.

 

Does not really matter any longer, ref my post #162. You are not allowed to drop on the green side of a yellow PA.

[Sawgrass]

Back to the Yellow PA's.

 

I just learned that a clarification is about to be published regarding the Reference Point being in the same yellow PA as where the ball lies. This will NOT be allowed, i.e. it is not possible to have a Reference Point in the same yellow PA where the ball went in.

 

This information has come directly from R&A.

Good news, the outcome is as I had hoped. I wonder how long it will take to get the official word.

[nsxguy]

Back to the Yellow PA's.

 

I just learned that a clarification is about to be published regarding the Reference Point being in the same yellow PA as where the ball lies. This will NOT be allowed, i.e. it is not possible to have a Reference Point in the same yellow PA where the ball went in.

 

This information has come directly from R&A.

 

Thanks Mr. B

 

Not surprised. Makes sense.

 

If they had intended for drops to take place green side a) it would have been listed as a "major change" and b) there'd be no need for Yellow PAs anymore.

[sui generis]

Back to the Yellow PA's.

 

I just learned that a clarification is about to be published regarding the Reference Point being in the same yellow PA as where the ball lies. This will NOT be allowed, i.e. it is not possible to have a Reference Point in the same yellow PA where the ball went in.

 

This information has come directly from R&A.

Good news, the outcome is as I had hoped. I wonder how long it will take to get the official word.

 

Oh, swell, another Exception! Everytime someone's knickers get into a twist over some picayune matter, here it comes . . . another Exception. ;) (ps There is one I like, but no one will guess which one that is.)

[Sawgrass]

Back to the Yellow PA's.

 

I just learned that a clarification is about to be published regarding the Reference Point being in the same yellow PA as where the ball lies. This will NOT be allowed, i.e. it is not possible to have a Reference Point in the same yellow PA where the ball went in.

 

This information has come directly from R&A.

Good news, the outcome is as I had hoped. I wonder how long it will take to get the official word.

 

Oh, swell, another Exception! Everytime someone's knickers get into a twist over some picayune matter, here it comes . . . another Exception. ;) (ps There is one I like, but no one will guess which one that is.)

We're all going to have to pitch in and buy you an "I hate exceptions, but there's an exception to that" tattoo.

[Mr. Bean]

Oh, swell, another Exception! Everytime someone's knickers get into a twist over some picayune matter, here it comes . . . another Exception. ;) (ps There is one I like, but no one will guess which one that is.)

 

Ok.

[Newby]

We have two PAs that we will keep as yellow. The lateral relief available for red is far too generous in these particular cases. This was decided by members not the committee.

Any pictures of those holes? I have a hard time to picture a hole where red stakes with no opposite edge option would give any benefit compared to current yellow PA reference point definition.

I haven't got a photo but here is a rough idea

[DaveLeeNC]

We have two PAs that we will keep as yellow. The lateral relief available for red is far too generous in these particular cases. This was decided by members not the committee.

Any pictures of those holes? I have a hard time to picture a hole where red stakes with no opposite edge option would give any benefit compared to current yellow PA reference point definition.

I haven't got a photo but here is a rough idea

 

What have I missed here? Holes where you have to carry a PA and there is a chance that the ball will carry and roll back in - pretty much every instance of this is an advantage to the red markings. Is the question here about the soon the be explicitly excluded drop option that Mr. Bean posted in post #162? I see this a good bit on the courses that I play.

 

dave

[Newby]

We have two PAs that we will keep as yellow. The lateral relief available for red is far too generous in these particular cases. This was decided by members not the committee.

Any pictures of those holes? I have a hard time to picture a hole where red stakes with no opposite edge option would give any benefit compared to current yellow PA reference point definition.

I haven't got a photo but here is a rough idea

 

What have I missed here? Holes where you have to carry a PA and there is a chance that the ball will carry and roll back in - pretty much every instance of this is an advantage to the red markings. Is the question here about the soon the be explicitly excluded drop option that Sawgrass posted in post #168? I see this a good bit on the courses that I play.

 

dave

 

"The lateral relief available for red is far too generous"

ie 2cl from PoE rather than BoL

[DaveLeeNC]

We have two PAs that we will keep as yellow. The lateral relief available for red is far too generous in these particular cases. This was decided by members not the committee.

Any pictures of those holes? I have a hard time to picture a hole where red stakes with no opposite edge option would give any benefit compared to current yellow PA reference point definition.

I haven't got a photo but here is a rough idea

 

What have I missed here? Holes where you have to carry a PA and there is a chance that the ball will carry and roll back in - pretty much every instance of this is an advantage to the red markings. Is the question here about the soon the be explicitly excluded drop option that Sawgrass posted in post #168? I see this a good bit on the courses that I play.

 

dave

 

ps. Oops - error above. The information came from Mr. Bean in #162

[DaveLeeNC]

We have two PAs that we will keep as yellow. The lateral relief available for red is far too generous in these particular cases. This was decided by members not the committee.

Any pictures of those holes? I have a hard time to picture a hole where red stakes with no opposite edge option would give any benefit compared to current yellow PA reference point definition.

I haven't got a photo but here is a rough idea

 

What have I missed here? Holes where you have to carry a PA and there is a chance that the ball will carry and roll back in - pretty much every instance of this is an advantage to the red markings. Is the question here about the soon the be explicitly excluded drop option that Sawgrass posted in post #168? I see this a good bit on the courses that I play.

 

dave

 

"The lateral relief available for red is far too generous"

ie 2cl from PoE rather than BoL

 

But the earlier discussion seemed to be questioning the existence of a red vs yellow advantage - hence the request for pictures.

 

dave

[nsxguy]

 

What have I missed here? Holes where you have to carry a PA and there is a chance that the ball will carry and roll back in - pretty much every instance of this is an advantage to the red markings. Is the question here about the soon the be explicitly excluded drop option that Sawgrass posted in post #168? I see this a good bit on the courses that I play.

 

dave

 

"The lateral relief available for red is far too generous"

ie 2cl from PoE rather than BoL

 

But the earlier discussion seemed to be questioning the existence of a red vs yellow advantage - hence the request for pictures.

 

dave

 

I'm confused about whether you are confused. :dntknw:

 

The clarification Mr Bean is referring to in Post 162 is referring back to the original post on this thread; that it is possible that a drop CAN be taken on the green side of a YELLOW penalty area according the the new Rules as stated.

 

Mr Bean is stating that this was discussed and apparently decided that the integrity of the old rule, that one says a player must cross the yellow hazard again, should be maintained under the new Rules. That is what the clarification is referring to.

 

So once it's official and a drop in the same Yellow Penalty area is NOT permitted, that green side drop for a yellow PA will NOT be allowed.

[Mr. Bean]

We have two PAs that we will keep as yellow. The lateral relief available for red is far too generous in these particular cases. This was decided by members not the committee.

Any pictures of those holes? I have a hard time to picture a hole where red stakes with no opposite edge option would give any benefit compared to current yellow PA reference point definition.

I haven't got a photo but here is a rough idea

 

That should not be a yellow PA to begin with.

[rogolf]

What have I missed here? Holes where you have to carry a PA and there is a chance that the ball will carry and roll back in - pretty much every instance of this is an advantage to the red markings. Is the question here about the soon the be explicitly excluded drop option that Sawgrass posted in post #168? I see this a good bit on the courses that I play.

 

dave

 

"The lateral relief available for red is far too generous"

ie 2cl from PoE rather than BoL

 

But the earlier discussion seemed to be questioning the existence of a red vs yellow advantage - hence the request for pictures.

 

dave

 

I'm confused about whether you are confused. :dntknw:

 

The clarification Mr Bean is referring to in Post 162 is referring back to the original post on this thread; that it is possible that a drop CAN be taken on the green side of a YELLOW penalty area according the the new Rules as stated.

 

Mr Bean is stating that this was discussed and apparently decided that the integrity of the old rule, that one says a player must cross the yellow hazard again, should be maintained under the new Rules. That is what the clarification is referring to.

 

So once it's official and a drop in the same Yellow Penalty area is NOT permitted, that green side drop for a yellow PA will NOT be allowed.

 

Things sure get twisted around! We already know that dropping in the same penalty area is not permitted. The discussion is about whether the reference point can be in the same penalty area for BOL relief from a yellow penalty area.

[Newby]

This was a diagrammatic version of a hole for which I couldn't get a picture.

 

It attempts to show on this particular hole, if the PA was marked red the 2cl lateral relief gives a significant advantage over the back on line relief available for a yellow PA.

In this case the former is about 100 yards from the green with no water carry as opposed to the latter 200 yards and a water carry.

[bladehunter]

We have two PAs that we will keep as yellow. The lateral relief available for red is far too generous in these particular cases. This was decided by members not the committee.

Any pictures of those holes? I have a hard time to picture a hole where red stakes with no opposite edge option would give any benefit compared to current yellow PA reference point definition.

I haven't got a photo but here is a rough idea

 

What have I missed here? Holes where you have to carry a PA and there is a chance that the ball will carry and roll back in - pretty much every instance of this is an advantage to the red markings. Is the question here about the soon the be explicitly excluded drop option that Mr. Bean posted in post #162? I see this a good bit on the courses that I play.

 

dave

 

I’m stilll confused as welll if that helps ( I know it doesn’t). I get the posts on yellow. But my post has to do with my course changing he yellows to red . And how that makes 2 holes much easier.

[nsxguy]

What have I missed here? Holes where you have to carry a PA and there is a chance that the ball will carry and roll back in - pretty much every instance of this is an advantage to the red markings. Is the question here about the soon the be explicitly excluded drop option that Sawgrass posted in post #168? I see this a good bit on the courses that I play.

 

dave

 

"The lateral relief available for red is far too generous"

ie 2cl from PoE rather than BoL

 

But the earlier discussion seemed to be questioning the existence of a red vs yellow advantage - hence the request for pictures.

 

dave

 

I'm confused about whether you are confused. :dntknw:

 

The clarification Mr Bean is referring to in Post 162 is referring back to the original post on this thread; that it is possible that a drop CAN be taken on the green side of a YELLOW penalty area according the the new Rules as stated.

 

Mr Bean is stating that this was discussed and apparently decided that the integrity of the old rule, that one says a player must cross the yellow hazard again, should be maintained under the new Rules. That is what the clarification is referring to.

 

So once it's official and a drop in the same Yellow Penalty area is NOT permitted, that green side drop for a yellow PA will NOT be allowed.

 

Things sure get twisted around! We already know that dropping in the same penalty area is not permitted. The discussion is about whether the reference point can be in the same penalty area for BOL relief from a yellow penalty area.

 

No, what we already know is that you can always take BOL relief from ANY penalty area.

 

What was discussed quite thoroughly in the other thread "2019 Rules of Golf" and got this situation a thread of its own in the first place was dropping on the GREEN side of a YELLOW PA, just as shown in the picture in Post #1.