Flightscope X3 Nightmares and advice requested on Indoor Launch Monitors

[dtowngolf]

Hello everyone if you have a Trackman, Flightscope or GC Quad and would like a faster read please skip to the bolded section.

 

I wanted to share my experience and am requesting opinions of anyone out there who may have dealt with this..To begin I owned a Flightscope X2 unit I purchased for outdoor use at my previous facility. As time passed I wanted to upgrade to an X3. I went to trade in my unit and was told that for the month they were running a special promotion on Mevos where I would receive 2 free mevos with an X3 purchase. A week went past after placing the order and I was extremely excited to use the new Flightscope/ mevo units in conjunction with my newly upgraded Boditrak for teaching and clinics. When the box arrived, my Flightscope which retail is around 16k showed up with a leg detached. Also the mevos were not in the box. I made a call and was told for the first time that I would not be receiving them since I traded in my old unit. I asked to speak with a manager 4 times in around a 2 week period as I was looking forward to using these in my clinics to educate members on launch monitors and data metrics. I kept getting told that I would get a call back and never did. I realized I was not on the companies radar and let this go as the employee made a mistake that did not seem it would be rectified.

 

That same week I decided to load my laptop with the software and realized the provided software on a usb for "flightscope video" was not functional. I then was blown off by an employee in which I will not name who I had a scheduled call to introduce me to the new unit with a walk through. To add, the Ipad app was completely not functioning and kept continually crashing.

 

Time goes on and I continue to use the unit with success outdoors for my lessons as well clinic series for ladies and men at my club. As the off season approaches, we began to set up our indoor facility which is a large room with plenty of light, more than the required space for proper use. I began to notice that not only clubspeed, but spin rate was WAY off inside for me to be happy. I then began the process of talking to support to see if someone could help fix my problem. After an hour of capturing shots they took data from this and "sent it off to the engineers" in South Africa. I was told I would get a call back in around 2-3 days with a resolution. If I remember correctly 4 days passed and I made a call myself to follow up. The person I spoke to said there was not record of this. I then ran through the same remote access and data capture process. A few days passed and I did receive a callback saying they needed to do this process one more time to capture data.Then after my data was reviewed I received a call saying that I would be receiving a demo unit so mine can be repaired. I about lost it when that afternoon I was called again stating they could not send me a new unit as it was a issue all units were experiencing.

 

Fast forward to this last week, I finally sent a much more stern email almost begging for a resolution and I now have a demo unit in my hands as a result. I am extremely thankful to finally have a unit after well over a month of fighting to get one even though I have a support agreement. Even though I have what should be a "good unit", I still have the following issues:

 

Indoor my Flightscope X3 is reading extremely low spin, therefore throwing off carry, total distance, dispersion, peak height, angle of decent ect. This is affecting my ability to do fittings, teach and my customers and myself have to adjust for this and compensate when using the product. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do to allocate the funds to purchase this and after the months of struggle I've finally decided to speak out. I'm looking for a solution from anyone else who teaches indoors or does indoor fittings. What is your set up to achieve correct numbers. Does Trackman also suffer with accuracy indoors? I'm looking at all options to either fix my set up or look at selling my unit to look for other solutions.

 

I greatly appreciate any feedback or comments as this is very important to me. This thread is not meant to share hate to Flightscope as I have using the product for training or teaching for over 10 years. This has been such a weight on my shoulders due to the large financial investment at my age. I hope to find a solution with everyone's help.

[dtowngolf]

PS. Please do not use this thread to bash on any certain company as I am just looking for help or feedback to experience anyone else may have. Thank you

[ksgolfcoach]

Putting the metallic stickers on every ball will help with spin numbers but at the end of the day, radar is not very good indoors and the shorter the distance between ball and net, the more extreme the readings. If I was indoors, I’d definitely go with the quad. I have an xi tour and outdoors it’s as good as anything out there. Also, hitting off a mat will tend to lower spin. I’m surprised you had issues with Flightscope support, they have always been fantastic when I’ve contacted them.

[Krt22]

Stickers, fiberbuilt mats, floor markers for the unit and ball/tee and i can get very good numbers indoors. I do wish FS brought back the asterisk letting you know if it was calculated spin.

 

But yes also very shocked FS support has been so bad. They have been very good for me

[dtowngolf]

I have used metallic stickers since day one. I have even tried making the distance over 2x the recommended. As far as mats go there should be 0 difference in spin from a good mat..one that replicates grass like I own. Also they do have the asterisk at request as they did it on my pc application therefore showing me the around 9/10 shots are all calculated. Have either of you experimented with Trackman indoors?

[lv_2_hack]

We’ve got one indoor to outdoor hitting bay and another thats into a net. Use our Trackman 99% of the time outdoor. When I’ve tried it in the net, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the numbers. From what I’ve noticed they tend to be on the low side like you’ve been dealing with.

 

Having said all that if i was 100% indoor, I’m getting the quad.

[dtowngolf]

Weve got one indoor to outdoor hitting bay and another thats into a net. Use our Trackman 99% of the time outdoor. When Ive tried it in the net, Ive been pleasantly surprised by the numbers. From what Ive noticed they tend to be on the low side like youve been dealing with.

 

Having said all that if i was 100% indoor, Im getting the quad.

The problem I have is that I am indoor in the winter and in the summer around 25 % due to rain or range closers. I’m running into sub 3000 spin with a wedge on a consistent basis (inside). I’m currently looking for a good solution for switching between the two types of use. How much lower did you see inside when you tested?

[lv_2_hack]

We’ve got one indoor to outdoor hitting bay and another thats into a net. Use our Trackman 99% of the time outdoor. When I’ve tried it in the net, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the numbers. From what I’ve noticed they tend to be on the low side like you’ve been dealing with.

 

Having said all that if i was 100% indoor, I’m getting the quad.

The problem I have is that I am indoor in the winter and in the summer around 25 % due to rain or range closers. I’m running into sub 3000 spin with a wedge on a consistent basis (inside). I’m currently looking for a good solution for switching between the two types of use. How much lower did you see inside when you tested?

 

Nothing crazy. 500-1000 rpm’s lower so far, but again we don’t use it much inside. I’m a big fan of both Trackman and Flightscope (also surprised you’ve had customer support issues with FS), but I don’t think neither compare indoors to the quad. Plus you can always take the quad outside.

[Krt22]

Yeah 3000rpm on a wedge is way low, when I say the mats can throw off spin im talking maybe 1000-1500 low off a hard mat. With the fiberbuilt my 7i is 6500-7000 rpm. If 9/10 are calculated either something is wrong with the unit or your facility has some source of interference

 

How are full iron shots? I know my FS doesnt do well on partial wedge shots indoors since the ball and club are so close in speed, but even then I can get 40 yard pitches to register and spin seems close to what it should. I thought the X3 was supposed to be better for this since it has both camera and radar

[dtowngolf]

Yeah 3000rpm on a wedge is way low, when I say the mats can throw off spin im talking maybe 1000-1500 low off a hard mat. With the fiberbuilt my 7i is 6500-7000 rpm. If 9/10 are calculated either something is wrong with the unit or your facility has some source of interference

 

How are full iron shots? I know my FS doesnt do well on partial wedge shots indoors since the ball and club are so close in speed, but even then I can get 40 yard pitches to register and spin seems close to what it should. I thought the X3 was supposed to be better for this since it has both camera and radar

Iron shots are low as well I had a student this week who had 95 mph 7 iron speed having around 3k spin on every shot giving him a higher total then outside. Ive had so many remote support sessions I have never been told anything is causing interference. Also the replacement unit is giving me the same issues. Id say one out of every 10 shots he hit would read where id expect it to.

[dtowngolf]

Heres a screenshot from earlier today on my ipad

[t_g_199]

Hi,

I also upgraded from an X2 to an X3. So far I can relate to your problem. Spin on my wedges is never above 8.000 (indoor setup) on the X3 - on Trackman more than 10.000 (outdoor setup). What helped to improve the numbers was as stated the metal stickers as well as the setup configuration. Since you used the X2 before I am sure you have experience with the setup. For me adding a bite more distance between den X3 an striking area as well as adding the height difference of the mat helped to get better numbers.

But still 1 out of 10 hits make absolutely no sense - also when putting (eg. 36° left Club path and 27° right Face = straight ball)

[Poser]

Oh man I was actually debating on picking up a flightscope and dumping my gc2. After hearing this customer service I doubt I would do that. Even though foresight customer service is just about the same. I guess Trackman or the quad would be your only other option. Although I have heard alot of good stuff about uneekor and their customer service. It's not the best solution in the world but, you could get that system for indoors and use the flightscope for outdoors.

[Yrrdead]

Can you give us some pictures of your facility? This can help us determine if you have something that is causing interference.

[PorscheFan]

Sorry to hear you're having such issues. I toyed with the idea of pulling the trigger on a used Flightscope, but I'm glad I cheaped out and went with a SkyTrak instead for indoor-only use. Spin numbers are extremely good with Skytrak. Photometric rocks for indoor use.

Either way, receiving less than adequate customer support is an awful, helpless feeling.

[iteachgolf]

Lots of things in an indoor environment can cause interference. Indoors can have a lot of noise depending on how and where electrical connections and devices are in the field that radar is trying to track. Clutter can also be an issue with a lot more objects in a smaller area with a shorter distance to track the ball. Flightscope had an issue in their own building with a noise environment and had to change some things to make it consistently accurate.

[Stuart_G]

I also thought about asking about the environment - but the OP didn't seem to have any issues with the X2. I could be wrong but I wouldn't think the newer X3 would be any more sensitive than the older X2.

 

[PorscheFan]

They couldn't send him a new unit becuse it was an issue all units were experiencing?

 

That says a lot. At that point you stop trying to clean your own house and look at theirs...

[Krt22]

> @PorscheFan said:

> Sorry to hear you're having such issues. I toyed with the idea of pulling the trigger on a used Flightscope, but I'm glad I cheaped out and went with a SkyTrak instead for indoor-only use. Spin numbers are extremely good with Skytrak. Photometric rocks for indoor use.

> Either way, receiving less than adequate customer support is an awful, helpless feeling.

 

As long as you aren't a high speed player, sure.

[PorscheFan]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @PorscheFan said:

> > Sorry to hear you're having such issues. I toyed with the idea of pulling the trigger on a used Flightscope, but I'm glad I cheaped out and went with a SkyTrak instead for indoor-only use. Spin numbers are extremely good with Skytrak. Photometric rocks for indoor use.

> > Either way, receiving less than adequate customer support is an awful, helpless feeling.

>

> As long as you aren't a high speed player, sure.

 

True, if you're giving lessons to that 170mph ball speed guy, but it covers everything else commendably.

[ethan380]

I'm shocked, Ive heard Flightscope support is usually very good.

[zba]

Hi, i was wandering of anyone had the same issues when hitting outdoors into a net? I am considering the X3 vs GC quad

[mgoblue83]

Can you return it for a refund? X3 just isn't as accurate as Trackman or GCQ in a perfect environment and it sounds like yours has quite a bit of interference.

[iteachgolf]

What’s the basis of this claim? My experience with Trackman has exponentially more doubled and even tripled spin numbers and way more missed club data on short shots off grass where a divot is taken. Distance have always been off with foresight in my experience

[Krt22]

It should be better outdoors into a net compared to indoors into a net because there will be less interaction with the environment. The more distance to the net the better in either scenario

[mgoblue83]

I agree with you on GCQ carry numbers being off especially with high speed, low spin shots. The basis for my comment is that 99% of PGA tour players use Trackman to practice not GCQ or X3. Even Bryson who is sponsored by Flightscope uses Trackman side by side with his X3. Trackman does misread sometimes as you said (every launch monitor does) but when it reads correctly it is the most accurate launch monitor.

[Krt22]

Bryson uses GCq side by side for normalized data (and perhaps their additional club data). That doesn't mean the X3 is inaccurate, quite the opposite actually, it's telling him exactly what the ball is doing under those given environmental conditions. He can then compare that to his normalized data to see the delta between his stock shot and the actual one.

[crussogolf]

I just got an X3, and so far it has been solid in short indoor mode.  I have 12/13 feet of ballflight and 8' ball to radar, which has given really good readings for everything, except driver spin (which seems to fluctuate more than it should, and has the highest frequency of estimated spin).  Honestly though, i've used a trackman indoor with a metallic sticker, and still get funky readings for driver. 

 

Anyway, one thing that i've noticed is that indoor spin readings and accuracy is extremely dependent on making sure the metallic dot is a) pointed directly at the target, and b) still in good shape (not damaged from impact).  In my first few sessions not paying as much attention to the metallic dot placement, I saw like 40% estimated or bad readings on 3/4 and full wedge shots.  After making sure to pay attention to the dot alignment, the spin readings are almost 100%, and definitely directionally correct to the type of strike.

 

I knew this going in, but I really wish FS could figure out how to account for strike/gear affect.  Don't know if this is a technology issue or software/firmware/algorithm issue, would be interesting to hear FS's take on strike location using radar.

[Stuart_G]

On 4/27/2021 at 3:21 PM, crussogolf said:

except driver spin (which seems to fluctuate more than it should, and has the highest frequency of estimated spin). 

 

FYI - always good to use foot powder spray to check your face impact location and consistency.  Even outdoors with the most accurate LM, one can see a lot of fluctuation with the spin thanks to gear effect if they have even the smallest inconsistencies in that face impact location.

[Three_Jack]

Swap out radar for camera tech. GC2/Quad, uneekor. All radar will struggle indoors with spin. Even trackman has to use club data to supplement their spin/spinaxis measurements. And now Trackman wants to you have great lighting so they can get better impact location data so they can use that for gear affect to help with spin calculations.

 

It's just a limitation of the tech indoors.