Varner ruling.

[KevCarter]

What we know.

 

Varner tried to do the right thing leaving the shaft on the first tee.

The walking scoreboard bearer picked it up and carried it in an attempt to help.

Somebody brought a new head. From the parking lot for assembly to the shaft.

The article written with everything we have to go by was confusing with errors.

We all have a different take on the final paragraph of the article, and none of us know anything for sure, other than the rule itself.

 

What we don’t know.

 

Where on the course the head was delivered

Who the head and shaft were given to for assembly

Whether it was before or after the assembled club was given to Varner that he found out the sign bearer was carrying the shaft.

Whether Varner and the Referee had any contact after their discussion before the round.

 

Guys, please correct any errors or misconceptions on my part. My apologies for reading that paragraph literally, and posting it multiple times without understanding the issues Shank and several others had with it. It took a day for me to understand and get them through my thick skull.

 

MY OPINION. I trust Mr. Russell got it right, and very poor wording in the article, whether the came from the writer or Mr. Russel. Like everyone else, I hope someone is able to clear this up, and explain it further so we have a better chance of ruling on this in the future, not that this crazy series of events will ever occur again.

 

Spot on Fred��.

 

Thank you Shank. Now let's hope we hear the whole story at some point so we can all learn from it...

 

I think we care more about it than HV does!

 

I've spent the last hour searching for information on this ruling, and nothing. Maybe it was a simpler ruling than we are making it out to be? Nobody else really seems interested...

[KevCarter]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/players-2019-harold-varner-equipment-change-penalty

[Roadking2003]

But from the GD quote, someone, an official I assume, flat out stated that a club cannot be assembled on the course. Ro just posted the actual rule where that isn't the case.

 

So basically we had a Rules official who didn't know the rule?

I wouldn't go that far - he knows the Rule and the breach. Perhaps he didn't express himself clearly enough. Obviously, assembling the parts and adding the club is the culmination of the breach, without the assembly and adding the club, there would be no breach. Again, where it was assembled is irrelevant.

 

Very true Although “So when they brought the head out and assembled it out there, it broke Rule 4.” seems expressed pretty clearly.

 

An absolutely stupid rule. Rules like this give golf a bad name.

[Roadking2003]

 

What’s bad is I don’t think anyone really has a problem with the rule itself, there were just questions as to if was quite as specific as it needs to be.

 

I do. The rule is stupid and useless.

[HitEmTrue]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/players-2019-harold-varner-equipment-change-penalty

 

If it were a bigger name player, there’d be more info...the player would have been interviewed about it.

 

[HitEmTrue]

 

What’s bad is I don’t think anyone really has a problem with the rule itself, there were just questions as to if was quite as specific as it needs to be.

 

I do. The rule is stupid and useless.

 

The first time a player asked his caddie to grab a certain club head out of the golf bag and build a club with it, you’d change your tune. Or at least I hope so.

 

[nsxguy]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

I don't think anybody likes a grey area. I know I don't. But I'm still trying to figure out what that grey area IS,,,,,,,,,,,,, :dntknw: :russian_roulette:

[nsxguy]

What’s bad is I don’t think anyone really has a problem with the rule itself, there were just questions as to if was quite as specific as it needs to be.

 

I do. The rule is stupid and useless.

 

Just curious. Is it possible that you read about the reason why that rule is in place ?

[ThinkingPlus]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

If it were a bigger name player, there'd be more info...the player would have been interviewed about it.

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

If it were a bigger name player, there'd be more info...the player would have been interviewed about it.

Or if the penalty caused the MC or cost him the tournament. Unlikely that the rule will ever become newsworthy again in the near future.

[nsxguy]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

If it were a bigger name player, there'd be more info...the player would have been interviewed about it.

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

If it were a bigger name player, there'd be more info...the player would have been interviewed about it.

Or if the penalty caused the MC or cost him the tournament. Unlikely that the rule will ever become newsworthy again in the near future.

 

Absolutely.

 

If this had any sort of even somewhat important effect on the tournament everybody involved would have been interviewed including the agent and the walker/marker/scorekeeper/whatever,,,,,,,,,,

[bladehunter]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/players-2019-harold-varner-equipment-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote “ that’s never happened “ says it all.

[KevCarter]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote " that's never happened " says it all.

 

LOL I knew you would enjoy that, I was hoping you were still up!

[HitEmTrue]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/players-2019-harold-varner-equipment-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote “ that’s never happened “ says it all.

 

It’s never happened because it is against the rules. Guarantee you it would happen without the rule.

 

[bladehunter]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/players-2019-harold-varner-equipment-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote “ that’s never happened “ says it all.

 

It’s never happened because it is against the rules. Guarantee you it would happen without the rule.

 

Maybe so. But that rule isn’t a very old one is it ?

 

Is it one that sprang from adjustable clubs ? I wasn’t around the game when that change came about.

 

Wouldn’t people have to start with less than 14 to make that happen ?

[nsxguy]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote " that's never happened " says it all.

 

It's never happened because it is against the rules. Guarantee you it would happen without the rule.

 

Not to mention the Rule covers a few more than just the 150 or so PGA Tour Pros,,,,,,,,,, :rolleyes:

[bladehunter]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote " that's never happened " says it all.

 

It's never happened because it is against the rules. Guarantee you it would happen without the rule.

 

Not to mention the Rule covers a few more than just the 150 or so PGA Tour Pros,,,,,,,,,, :rolleyes:

 

I can’t resist asking this. Who you going to get to follow you around making you new drivers man ?!

[KevCarter]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote " that's never happened " says it all.

 

It's never happened because it is against the rules. Guarantee you it would happen without the rule.

 

Not to mention the Rule covers a few more than just the 150 or so PGA Tour Pros,,,,,,,,,, :rolleyes:

 

I can't resist asking this. Who you going to get to follow you around making you new drivers man ?!

 

It's an RGR.

[nsxguy]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchan...-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote " that's never happened " says it all.

 

It's never happened because it is against the rules. Guarantee you it would happen without the rule.

 

Not to mention the Rule covers a few more than just the 150 or so PGA Tour Pros,,,,,,,,,, :rolleyes:

 

I can't resist asking this. Who you going to get to follow you around making you new drivers man ?!

 

Sorry my friend but yet again I don't understand your question,,,,,,

[HitEmTrue]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/players-2019-harold-varner-equipment-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote “ that’s never happened “ says it all.

 

It’s never happened because it is against the rules. Guarantee you it would happen without the rule.

 

Maybe so. But that rule isn’t a very old one is it ?

 

Is it one that sprang from adjustable clubs ? I wasn’t around the game when that change came about.

 

Wouldn’t people have to start with less than 14 to make that happen ?

 

Yes a player would start with less than 14. But would effectively be playing with more than 14.

 

There wouldn’t have been a reason for this rule before adjustable clubs and interchangeable shafts.

 

[deadsolid...shank]

But at the turn, or like on one of my courses the the 2nd green comes right back by the shop and parking lot. I could run there quickly (not delaying play) and throw one together. Or at any point I can make a call to the shop and have someone put one together and run it out to me, correct?

 

I like Thinking Plus’s idea of just not adding a club after the round starts.

[bladehunter]

 

Nsx -

 

I assume you mean the everyday player lives under this rule too ?

 

So what is a regular joe going to do to cross this rule ? Start with 12 clubs and have someone follow him with a 64 degree wedge and an extra driver Incase a certain instance comes up ?

 

My point is that this rule isn’t going to ever apply to 99.8% of the golf public pro or not. It applied to more before this year when you could replace a club. Now that you can’t. It really isn’t going to come up except when it catches an honest guy like this time.

 

I was making a joke about you having extra drivers carried around “ just in case “.

[bladehunter]

Well, found something, but nothing really new, and no help. Like Blade, Faldo doesn't like gray area either... :)

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/video/players-2019-harold-varner-equipment-change-penalty

 

Lol. The look on Faldos face is exactly how I feel when reading about this. Kind of a half laugh / disbelief kind of thing. The quote “ that’s never happened “ says it all.

 

It’s never happened because it is against the rules. Guarantee you it would happen without the rule.

 

Maybe so. But that rule isn’t a very old one is it ?

 

Is it one that sprang from adjustable clubs ? I wasn’t around the game when that change came about.

 

Wouldn’t people have to start with less than 14 to make that happen ?

 

Yes a player would start with less than 14. But would effectively be playing with more than 14.

 

There wouldn’t have been a reason for this rule before adjustable clubs and interchangeable shafts.

 

I agree with the last part. But not sure how it’s mkre than 14 effective.

 

You can’t replace clubs can you ? So you can only get 14 in total. Start with 10 add 4. Start with 2 add 12. Right ?

[nsxguy]

Nsx -

 

I assume you mean the everyday player lives under this rule too ?

 

So what is a regular joe going to do to cross this rule ? Start with 12 clubs and have someone follow him with a 64 degree wedge and an extra driver Incase a certain instance comes up ?

 

My point is that this rule isn't going to ever apply to 99.8% of the golf public pro or not. It applied to more before this year when you could replace a club. Now that you can't. It really isn't going to come up except when it catches an honest guy like this time.

 

I was making a joke about you having extra drivers carried around " just in case ".

 

I'm not sure you're getting the point.

 

If I start with 13 clubs and have, say a 3 wood head and a couple of shafts in the bag and after a few holes, noting the wind and/or fairway conditions I might select one head and one shaft and set it up for the way my 2nd shots might play out on the 4 par 5s.

 

Or do you not see that as a "problem" ?

 

THIS is why the rule is what it is.

[Shilgy]

A regular player would cross the rule by carrying the components themselves blade. Read the rule and the interpretations and you will read that the parts cannot be carried by the player OR another person.

[HitEmTrue]

I agree with the last part. But not sure how it’s mkre than 14 effective.

 

You can’t replace clubs can you ? So you can only get 14 in total. Start with 10 add 4. Start with 2 add 12. Right ?

 

You get to make choices as you go. You have more than 14 in your bag, as components. No, you don’t actually USE more than 14. But more than 14 are at your disposal.

 

 

[bladehunter]

Nsx -

 

I assume you mean the everyday player lives under this rule too ?

 

So what is a regular joe going to do to cross this rule ? Start with 12 clubs and have someone follow him with a 64 degree wedge and an extra driver Incase a certain instance comes up ?

 

My point is that this rule isn't going to ever apply to 99.8% of the golf public pro or not. It applied to more before this year when you could replace a club. Now that you can't. It really isn't going to come up except when it catches an honest guy like this time.

 

I was making a joke about you having extra drivers carried around " just in case ".

 

I'm not sure you're getting the point.

 

If I start with 13 clubs and have, say a 3 wood head and a couple of shafts in the bag and after a few holes, noting the wind and/or fairway conditions I might select one head and one shaft and set it up for the way my 2nd shots might play out on the 4 par 5s.

 

Or do you not see that as a "problem" ?

 

THIS is why the rule is what it is.

 

I truly don’t. And I don’t think anyone would do that. You can only do it once. Not as if you can swap shafts and heads back and forth for draw and fade holes.

 

The only way I see it logically being abused is if you carried a 64 degree wedge and say a 5 wood. And played the shot that came up to suit one of those two holes in the bag. Nobody I know that plays well swaps out driver shafts Or heads once they are in love with something. Certainly not hole to hole. You’d use it to suit a specialty shot to theoretically save 1 shot in a round. Like Faldo said. “That’s never happened”.

 

Like I said. I can see the point if you could still replace clubs. But since you can’t now. It’s a one shot deal. The “ carrying “ vs someone bringing it out doesn’t make any difference that I can see.... especially to the everyday player. We don’t have people to carry for us.

[HitEmTrue]

No one would have to carry them for you. They would be in your golf bag.

 

 

 

[bladehunter]

I agree with the last part. But not sure how it’s mkre than 14 effective.

 

You can’t replace clubs can you ? So you can only get 14 in total. Start with 10 add 4. Start with 2 add 12. Right ?

 

You get to make choices as you go. You have more than 14 in your bag, as components. No, you don’t actually USE more than 14. But more than 14 are at your disposal.

 

Are you saying I declare 10 of my 22 clubs out of play before the 1st tee shot then add in the other 2 from the 10 “ out of play “ clubs I have to chose from ?

 

How else do I have the ability to carry more than 14 and claim less than 14 ?

 

Honest question - what am I missing ? Can you carry as many components as you like and not claim them as clubs ?

[Halebopp]

Honest question - what am I missing ? Can you carry as many components as you like and not claim them as clubs ?

 

Yes

 

[Mr. Bean]

bladehunter said:

Honest question - what am I missing ? Can you carry as many components as you like and not claim them as clubs ?

You may carry as many as you wish but you are not allowed to assemble any clubs out of them.