Pros and others throw USGA under the bus.

[rangersgoalie]

E > @youdamantiger said:

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > > >

> > > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > > >

> > > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> > >

> > > What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> > >

> > > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

> >

> > Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

>

> > @rangersgoalie said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > I think the USGA takes a lot of completely unnecessary and unfair flak from pros and from fans who take their cue from the pros. Look, players b*tch. It's just what they do. If there's a par 5 they can't reach. If there's rough that they can't knock it on the green from. If there's a hole location that requires a precise shot otherwise a three-putt is a real possibility. If a butterfly farts in their downswing. If their courtesy van to the course is two minutes late. There is no end to the number of things that can raise a player's ire. And the USGA is an easy target because they host the toughest tournament on the schedule.

> > > > >

> > > > > For me, a tournament gets it "right" as long as all the players are playing the same course in (relatively) the same conditions. If that happens then the best player that week will be identified whether the winning score is -20 or +4. The folks who argue that par is just a number are the same folks who howl in protest when the winning score is over par. Every single week is a birdie buffet for these guys. There should be at least one week, one tournament where they're forced to eat their vegetables.

> > > > >

> > > > > The reason I come down on this side of the debate is one of branding. The USGA doesn't always get it right. Heck, they've admitted as much. But, like it or not, this is a binary debate. You're either with the USGA or against them. And if you're against them, you're essentially arguing for the US Open to lose its flavor, the distinctiveness that differentiates it. You're essentially arguing for two PGA Championships.

> > > > >

> > > > > Every major has it's own distinct feel. The Masters has its traditions and diabolical greens. The British Open has its history and unpredictable weather. The US Open has its democratization and brutal course conditions. The PGA is the only one of the majors without a distinct identity and feel. And it has suffered for it. If you rob the US Open of it's identity as the toughest test these guys face, then you're condemning it to being just another PGA Championship. If you just can't stomach par being a good score because it's "boring" or whatever, take heart, the Travelers starts in just six days.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your first paragraph so so full of false facts and ridiculous exaggeration that it's laughable. And no it's not binary in the least. Adjusting things to a ridiculous level to guard an imaginary number while taking things to and past the line of common Sense and good taste doesn't make for a good course set up and certainly not professional.

> > > >

> > > > . Lots of off base points, misunderstandings of golf, the USGA and people's views in that post.

> > >

> > > What exactly is false? That players b*tch? That the US Open is the toughest tournament on the schedule?

> > >

> > > Don't take this the wrong way but...are you high or retarded?

> >

> > Curious while following this......what IS the wrong way to take that :)

>

> The wrong way to take it would be that I was personally attacking him. In reality I was just employing rhetorical absurdity as a way of expressing genuine bewilderment that he could take issue with anything in the first paragraph of my post. I get taking issue with the rest as they’re my opinions but the first paragraph was just objective fact. Tour pros whine an inordinate amount and the US Open is the toughest tournament on tour.

>

>

 

Ok then....by your line of thinking, I took it the wrong way

 

[Roadking2003]

> @youdamantiger said:

> How is this conversation still going on? Has anyone been converted one way or another? Time for this thing to die I think.

 

Converting somebody is not the goal. It's entertainment and entertainment will never die.

[caniac6]

Looks to me that, so far, everything is ok at Pebble. Mabye the problem was Mike Davis.

[Darth Putter]

So far so good at Pebble Beach.

 

[Darth Putter]

FOX was showing the officials setting the hole for #14. There were twelve people there.

[caniac6]

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> FOX was showing the officials setting the hole for #14. There were twelve people there.

 

Good, they seem to have cut back.

[nsxguy]

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> So far so good at Pebble Beach.

>

>

 

Conspiracy theorists unite.

 

"Heartfelt" ?

 

Or just showing how he can be the "bigger/better man" and be above it all ?

[ClintDagger]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @"Darth Putter" said:

> > So far so good at Pebble Beach.

> >

> >

>

> Conspiracy theorists unite.

>

> "Heartfelt" ?

>

> Or just showing how he can be the "bigger/better man" and be above it all ?

 

Guilty conscience.

[buckeyefl]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @youdamantiger said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" Oh FFS. Do you need a tissue?

> >

> > @buckeyefl yes. Clearly I meant that bit about the butterfly flatulence literally. You’re spot on actually. Tour pros as a lot are the most steely-eyed, flinty, rugged pro athletes on the planet. I heard DJ once suffered a compound fracture of his femur before the third round of the Tough Sumbitch Open. Instead of withdrawing he wrapped it in duct tape and went out and shot a 69. When asked about it afterward he said “ ‘twas but a mere flesh wound.”

> >

> > Such men as these would never lodge a frivolous complaint about adverse course conditions. I heartily apologize for impugning the grit of these giants.

> >

> > Now, kindly go eff yourself. And you can take that any way you like.

>

> No tissue needed. I just don’t think it’s acceptable to call people retarded because they disagree with you. In fact, I think it’s a sign of ignorance and immaturity. I also think it has no place on GolfWRX. But, hey, that’s just me.

>

>

 

He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

[buckeyefl]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @"Darth Putter" said:

> > So far so good at Pebble Beach.

> >

> >

>

> Conspiracy theorists unite.

>

> "Heartfelt" ?

>

> Or just showing how he can be the "bigger/better man" and be above it all ?

 

I think I'll go with sincere. He complained and it seems like ( for now anyway) that they listened. I did hear a rumor that Mike Davis has been sedated after trying to replace today's pin sheet with his own. Supposedly one of the holes was to be cut on the beach.

[nsxguy]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @"Darth Putter" said:

> > > So far so good at Pebble Beach.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Conspiracy theorists unite.

> >

> > "Heartfelt" ?

> >

> > Or just showing how he can be the "bigger/better man" and be above it all ?

>

> I think I'll go with sincere. He complained and it seems like ( for now anyway) that they listened. I did hear a rumor that Mike Davis has been sedated after trying to replace today's pin sheet with his own. Supposedly one of the holes was to be cut on the beach.

 

LOL

 

You post what I assume is a honest reply but still can't help giving the USGA and/or Mike Davis a "shot". Pretty funny.

 

Guess you had a point when you said.

 

> @buckeyefl said:

>

> He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

 

 

[buckeyefl]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @"Darth Putter" said:

> > > > So far so good at Pebble Beach.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Conspiracy theorists unite.

> > >

> > > "Heartfelt" ?

> > >

> > > Or just showing how he can be the "bigger/better man" and be above it all ?

> >

> > I think I'll go with sincere. He complained and it seems like ( for now anyway) that they listened. I did hear a rumor that Mike Davis has been sedated after trying to replace today's pin sheet with his own. Supposedly one of the holes was to be cut on the beach.

>

> LOL

>

> You post what I assume is a honest reply but still can't help giving the USGA and/or Mike Davis a "shot". Pretty funny.

>

> Guess you had a point when you said.

>

> > @buckeyefl said:

> >

> > He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

>

>

 

A little honesty and a little humor.

[North Texas]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @"Darth Putter" said:

> > > > > So far so good at Pebble Beach.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Conspiracy theorists unite.

> > > >

> > > > "Heartfelt" ?

> > > >

> > > > Or just showing how he can be the "bigger/better man" and be above it all ?

> > >

> > > I think I'll go with sincere. He complained and it seems like ( for now anyway) that they listened. I did hear a rumor that Mike Davis has been sedated after trying to replace today's pin sheet with his own. Supposedly one of the holes was to be cut on the beach.

> >

> > LOL

> >

> > You post what I assume is a honest reply but still can't help giving the USGA and/or Mike Davis a "shot". Pretty funny.

> >

> > Guess you had a point when you said.

> >

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > >

> > > He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

> >

> >

>

> A little honesty and a little humor.

 

Very little of both.

[buckeyefl]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > @"Darth Putter" said:

> > > > > > So far so good at Pebble Beach.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Conspiracy theorists unite.

> > > > >

> > > > > "Heartfelt" ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Or just showing how he can be the "bigger/better man" and be above it all ?

> > > >

> > > > I think I'll go with sincere. He complained and it seems like ( for now anyway) that they listened. I did hear a rumor that Mike Davis has been sedated after trying to replace today's pin sheet with his own. Supposedly one of the holes was to be cut on the beach.

> > >

> > > LOL

> > >

> > > You post what I assume is a honest reply but still can't help giving the USGA and/or Mike Davis a "shot". Pretty funny.

> > >

> > > Guess you had a point when you said.

> > >

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > >

> > > > He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > A little honesty and a little humor.

>

> Very little of both.

 

Well that's not nice since I'm doubting you are psychic. Humor is subjective but to question what I said about Thomas comments and claiming it just a little honest? Get back to me with the lottery numbers and your next round is on me.

 

As far as the humor part goes, if you think for a second that the Old Guard and their minions aren't hand wringing over the scores then the jokes on you. The smart ones among them will understand that it's good for their organization to reign in the stupidity and that starts with getting people like Davis to keep their elitist, slimy hands off of nearly everything to do with the game but specifically with this tournament.

[bladehunter]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > > > > @"Darth Putter" said:

> > > > > > > So far so good at Pebble Beach.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Conspiracy theorists unite.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > "Heartfelt" ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Or just showing how he can be the "bigger/better man" and be above it all ?

> > > > >

> > > > > I think I'll go with sincere. He complained and it seems like ( for now anyway) that they listened. I did hear a rumor that Mike Davis has been sedated after trying to replace today's pin sheet with his own. Supposedly one of the holes was to be cut on the beach.

> > > >

> > > > LOL

> > > >

> > > > You post what I assume is a honest reply but still can't help giving the USGA and/or Mike Davis a "shot". Pretty funny.

> > > >

> > > > Guess you had a point when you said.

> > > >

> > > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > >

> > > > > He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > A little honesty and a little humor.

> >

> > Very little of both.

>

> Well that's not nice since I'm doubting you are psychic. Humor is subjective but to question what I said about Thomas comments and claiming it just a little honest? Get back to me with the lottery numbers and your next round is on me.

>

> As far as the humor part goes, if you think for a second that the Old Guard and their minions aren't hand wringing over the scores then the jokes on you. The smart ones among them will understand that it's good for their organization to reign in the stupidity and that starts with getting people like Davis to keep their elitist, slimy hands off of nearly everything to do with the game but specifically with this tournament.

 

Oh , they are having trouble keeping their Ovaltine down no doubt. I’m sure mike Davis is pacing a floor somewhere as I type. And I love that. lol. Cynical ? Yes. But also true.

[tiderider]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @"Darth Putter" said:

> > So far so good at Pebble Beach.

> >

> >

>

> Conspiracy theorists unite.

>

> "Heartfelt" ?

>

> Or just showing how he can be the "bigger/better man" and be above it all ?

 

twitter savvy shouldn't be mistaken for anything other than twitter savvy ... and i'm a jt fan ...

[youdamantiger]

> @buckeyefl said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" Oh FFS. Do you need a tissue?

> > >

> > > @buckeyefl yes. Clearly I meant that bit about the butterfly flatulence literally. You’re spot on actually. Tour pros as a lot are the most steely-eyed, flinty, rugged pro athletes on the planet. I heard DJ once suffered a compound fracture of his femur before the third round of the Tough Sumbitch Open. Instead of withdrawing he wrapped it in duct tape and went out and shot a 69. When asked about it afterward he said “ ‘twas but a mere flesh wound.”

> > >

> > > Such men as these would never lodge a frivolous complaint about adverse course conditions. I heartily apologize for impugning the grit of these giants.

> > >

> > > Now, kindly go eff yourself. And you can take that any way you like.

> >

> > No tissue needed. I just don’t think it’s acceptable to call people retarded because they disagree with you. In fact, I think it’s a sign of ignorance and immaturity. I also think it has no place on GolfWRX. But, hey, that’s just me.

> >

> >

>

> He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

 

Who exactly is "they?" I didn't realize I was part of some secret cabal dedicated to hurting your feelings.

[bladehunter]

> @youdamantiger said:

> > @buckeyefl said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" Oh FFS. Do you need a tissue?

> > > >

> > > > @buckeyefl yes. Clearly I meant that bit about the butterfly flatulence literally. You’re spot on actually. Tour pros as a lot are the most steely-eyed, flinty, rugged pro athletes on the planet. I heard DJ once suffered a compound fracture of his femur before the third round of the Tough Sumbitch Open. Instead of withdrawing he wrapped it in duct tape and went out and shot a 69. When asked about it afterward he said “ ‘twas but a mere flesh wound.”

> > > >

> > > > Such men as these would never lodge a frivolous complaint about adverse course conditions. I heartily apologize for impugning the grit of these giants.

> > > >

> > > > Now, kindly go eff yourself. And you can take that any way you like.

> > >

> > > No tissue needed. I just don’t think it’s acceptable to call people retarded because they disagree with you. In fact, I think it’s a sign of ignorance and immaturity. I also think it has no place on GolfWRX. But, hey, that’s just me.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

>

> Who exactly is "they?" I didn't realize I was part of some secret cabal dedicated to hurting your feelings.

 

I’m assuming he means those who call people names such as high or retarded to try to make a point? Wild guess.

[gvogel]

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> FOX was showing the officials setting the hole for #14. There were twelve people there.

 

And the official that made the ultimate decision made a good one.

 

My impression is that we will have difficult and fair US Open set ups going forward under John Bodenhamer.

[bladehunter]

> @youdamantiger said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" Oh FFS. Do you need a tissue?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > @buckeyefl yes. Clearly I meant that bit about the butterfly flatulence literally. You’re spot on actually. Tour pros as a lot are the most steely-eyed, flinty, rugged pro athletes on the planet. I heard DJ once suffered a compound fracture of his femur before the third round of the Tough Sumbitch Open. Instead of withdrawing he wrapped it in duct tape and went out and shot a 69. When asked about it afterward he said “ ‘twas but a mere flesh wound.”

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Such men as these would never lodge a frivolous complaint about adverse course conditions. I heartily apologize for impugning the grit of these giants.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, kindly go eff yourself. And you can take that any way you like.

> > > > >

> > > > > No tissue needed. I just don’t think it’s acceptable to call people retarded because they disagree with you. In fact, I think it’s a sign of ignorance and immaturity. I also think it has no place on GolfWRX. But, hey, that’s just me.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

> > >

> > > Who exactly is "they?" I didn't realize I was part of some secret cabal dedicated to hurting your feelings.

> >

> > I’m assuming he means those who call people names such as high or retarded to try to make a point? Wild guess.

>

> Ah Bladehunter. My other _bete noire._ Decided to enter the fray did you? Do you get your rocks off being a contrarian? Sometimes I think you disagree just to hear yourself type.

>

> "Acktually Ben Hogan was a horrible ball striker."

> "Acktually it's quite easy to become a member of Augusta National."

> "Acktually Tiger Woods was a model husband."

>

> Yes, I know Buckeye was talking about me dipsht. But he said "they" and not "him." I need to know who these other trolls are so we can unite and destroy you all.

 

You call me and several here names. And post things that get guys banned from here. Ever notice that neither of us has flagged you ? Why do you think that is ? Is it that maybe we are the opposite of what you claim ? We are perfectly happy with you having a differing opinion. Even with you or anyone aggressively defending it. I enjoy the debate. But when you lower yourself to name calling and nonsense questions that you know the answer to ,its across the line. Because the post above is far enough across the line , I assure you.

 

I simply pointed out the answer to your rhetorical question. I did not enter any fray. Don’t ask dumb questions of you don’t want dumb answers. As far as “ they “. Several of they aren’t here anymore. One is here again under another name. But he knows that he’s outed so disappeared 2 days ago ... don’t try to be they. Just be you.

 

 

Edit - thought oh this. Me a contrarian. Sure. You might have some points there to make. But. I try to look at debates from all angles. Most people do not. I constantly bring up points that most feel are out there. But they feel that way because they refuse to consider all options. The herd just wants to see the common gospel as truth. It rarely is an absolute truth.

 

All that being said , I’m never nasty or spewing insults like the above post. There’s just no need in it. Most of the guys you see me argue with , I’ve conversed with privately and we understand that it’s just in good fun. I’m telling you. Most of them I know by first name. So you’re reading too much into it in my opinion.

[buckeyefl]

> @gvogel said:

> > @"Darth Putter" said:

> > FOX was showing the officials setting the hole for #14. There were twelve people there.

>

> And the official that made the ultimate decision made a good one.

>

> My impression is that we will have difficult and fair US Open set ups going forward under John Bodenhamer.

 

Fingers crossed

[bladehunter]

Said I would. So far USga has preformed a great job. I’ve loved watching every minute of this week. Pebble produced a great test , and if the wind had blown you’d see the score right on par. The wind is the deciding factor just like the old course.

[youdamantiger]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @youdamantiger said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > @buckeyefl said:

> > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > > > @youdamantiger said:

> > > > > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" Oh FFS. Do you need a tissue?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > @buckeyefl yes. Clearly I meant that bit about the butterfly flatulence literally. You’re spot on actually. Tour pros as a lot are the most steely-eyed, flinty, rugged pro athletes on the planet. I heard DJ once suffered a compound fracture of his femur before the third round of the Tough Sumbitch Open. Instead of withdrawing he wrapped it in duct tape and went out and shot a 69. When asked about it afterward he said “ ‘twas but a mere flesh wound.”

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Such men as these would never lodge a frivolous complaint about adverse course conditions. I heartily apologize for impugning the grit of these giants.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Now, kindly go eff yourself. And you can take that any way you like.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No tissue needed. I just don’t think it’s acceptable to call people retarded because they disagree with you. In fact, I think it’s a sign of ignorance and immaturity. I also think it has no place on GolfWRX. But, hey, that’s just me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > He showed his true colors and ignorance in the end. They always do.

> > > >

> > > > Who exactly is "they?" I didn't realize I was part of some secret cabal dedicated to hurting your feelings.

> > >

> > > I’m assuming he means those who call people names such as high or retarded to try to make a point? Wild guess.

> >

> > Ah Bladehunter. My other _bete noire._ Decided to enter the fray did you? Do you get your rocks off being a contrarian? Sometimes I think you disagree just to hear yourself type.

> >

> > "Acktually Ben Hogan was a horrible ball striker."

> > "Acktually it's quite easy to become a member of Augusta National."

> > "Acktually Tiger Woods was a model husband."

> >

> > Yes, I know Buckeye was talking about me dipsht. But he said "they" and not "him." I need to know who these other trolls are so we can unite and destroy you all.

>

> You call me and several here names. And post things that get guys banned from here. Ever notice that neither of us has flagged you ? Why do you think that is ? Is it that maybe we are the opposite of what you claim ? We are perfectly happy with you having a differing opinion. Even with you or anyone aggressively defending it. I enjoy the debate. But when you lower yourself to name calling and nonsense questions that you know the answer to ,its across the line. Because the post above is far enough across the line , I assure you.

>

> I simply pointed out the answer to your rhetorical question. I did not enter any fray. Don’t ask dumb questions of you don’t want dumb answers. As far as “ they “. Several of they aren’t here anymore. One is here again under another name. But he knows that he’s outed so disappeared 2 days ago ... don’t try to be they. Just be you.

>

>

> Edit - thought oh this. Me a contrarian. Sure. You might have some points there to make. But. I try to look at debates from all angles. Most people do not. I constantly bring up points that most feel are out there. But they feel that way because they refuse to consider all options. The herd just wants to see the common gospel as truth. It rarely is an absolute truth.

>

> All that being said , I’m never nasty or spewing insults like the above post. There’s just no need in it. Most of the guys you see me argue with , I’ve conversed with privately and we understand that it’s just in good fun. I’m telling you. Most of them I know by first name. So you’re reading too much into it in my opinion.

 

My apologies. I still think that my contention Tour pros whine a lot is so self-evidently true that it rises to the level of claiming water is wet. However I see your point on the tenor of my post towards you. I'm sorry again. Have a pleasant evening wherever you are.