"Some of this new crop of players could have gone professional in other sports but chose golf"

[Wesquire]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > >

> > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > >

> > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > >

> > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > >

> > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> >

> > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

>

> Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

>

 

His batting wasnt all-star level, but his fielding was among the best. And it wasnt even his best sport.

[bscinstnct]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > >

> > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > >

> > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > >

> > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > >

> > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > >

> > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> >

> > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

>

> No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

>

> If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

 

But the notion that the guy can go hit 32 home runs in the MLB then go out and play RB in the NFL and rush for 5.5 yards a carry is pretty stupid.

 

Who does that? It's got to be one of the greatest athletic displays in history.

 

Didn't Bo just like go from MLB to NFL like 5 games into the season, no training camp, no lifting all summer, just go out there and rush for 5 yards a carry?

 

C'mon, that's totally superhuman!

 

 

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > >

> > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > >

> > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > >

> > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > >

> > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > >

> > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> >

> > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

>

> Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

>

 

Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

[LICC]

> @Wesquire said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > >

> > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > >

> > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > >

> > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > >

> > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> >

> > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> >

>

> His batting wasnt all-star level, but his fielding was among the best. And it wasnt even his best sport.

 

124 and 142 OPS+ is All-Star level batting.

[tiderider]

> @LICC said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > >

> > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > >

> > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > >

> > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > >

> > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> >

> > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> >

> > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

>

> He played football after the baseball season ended.

> A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

 

his BA avg increased every year to .272 ... he would start off very hot and cool down, average wise, but he had started going deeper into the season each year before cooling down ... he certainly was a highlight reel, and was one of the top 20 players in baseball for a brief time (if not higher) before his injury hit ...

[cdnglf]

> @LICC said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > >

> > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > >

> > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > >

> > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > >

> > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> >

> > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> >

>

> Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

 

A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

 

[bscinstnct]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > >

> > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > >

> > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > >

> > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > >

> >

> > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

>

> A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

>

 

Bo Jackson said hello with a leadoff HR in the 1989 All-Star Game

 

http://img.mlbstatic.com/mlb-images/image/private/t_16x9/mlb/jpudjrkoaouegjlmxmqa.mp4

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > >

> > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > >

> > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > >

> > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > >

> > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > >

> >

> > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

>

> A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

>

 

If you can't understand the deficiencies of WAR and the impressiveness of 124 and 142 OPS+ seasons, then you are on full display here of your lack of credibility.

[rangersgoalie]

Tiger, Phil and Rory were in top 40 athlete earners

Longevity of a golf career levels a lot of the numbers for a career

 

Hell, Palmer was near the top earners until he died probably after his passing

 

But to the OP there are about as many chances golfers could play professionally as there are Jordan’s who were delusional enough to think they could play baseball or golf professionally

 

The specialization required by virtually all is just too consuming

[Shilgy]

> @cdnglf said:

> Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

>

> Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

>

>

You were doing fine until you got to Bo. One of the best running backs in his brief era and an All Star in baseball. There may have been a lot of hype but it was justified.

unfortunately he blew out his hip and was never the same after.

 

[tiderider]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > >

> > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> >

> > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

>

> Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

>

> In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

>

> Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

 

um, he couldn't play more than 11 games since his primary profession was baseball ... per carry avg in football is 5.4 ... BA increased every year before injury up to .272 ... top 5 arm in baseball from cf ... a highlight reel because everything he did was a highlight ...

[tiderider]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > >

> > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> >

> > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

>

> Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

>

> In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

>

> Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

 

um, he couldn't play more than 11 games since his primary profession was baseball ... per carry avg in football is 5.4 ... BA increased every year before injury up to .272 ... top 5 arm in baseball from cf ... a highlight reel because everything he did was a highlight ...

[cdnglf]

> @LICC said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > > >

> > > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > >

> > > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > > >

> > >

> > > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

> >

> > A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

> >

>

> If you can't understand the deficiencies of WAR and the impressiveness of 124 and 142 OPS+ seasons, then you are on full display here of your lack of credibility.

 

Says the guy who cherry-picks a rate stat for a season in which Jackson only played 2/3rds of the games.

124 OPS+ isn't that great for a left fielder who can't stay healthy.

[cdnglf]

> @tiderider said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > >

> > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > >

> > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> >

> > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> >

> > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> >

> > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

>

> um, he couldn't play more than 11 games since his primary profession was baseball ... per carry avg in football is 5.4 ... BA increased every year before injury up to .272 ... top 5 arm in baseball from cf ... a highlight reel because everything he did was a highlight ...

 

Primary profession was baseball, but 135 games was the most he ever played in season (did manage to lead the league strikeouts that year, though).

Played most of his games in LF, and second most at DH - stats show him as a negative defensive value.

Didn't walk.

Had a steal rate just slightly above break-even.

Ultimately, 8.3 career WAR. What Mike Trout calls "a bad year".

 

 

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > >

> > > A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

> > >

> >

> > If you can't understand the deficiencies of WAR and the impressiveness of 124 and 142 OPS+ seasons, then you are on full display here of your lack of credibility.

>

> Says the guy who cherry-picks a rate stat for a season in which Jackson only played 2/3rds of the games.

> 124 OPS+ isn't that great for a left fielder who can't stay healthy.

 

Please stop, you are digging a bigger credibility hole for yourself. I'm feeling bad for you.

124 OPS+ is generally in the top 40 or better of all of MLB. Clearly All-Star level.

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @tiderider said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > >

> > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > >

> > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > >

> > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > >

> > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > >

> > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> >

> > um, he couldn't play more than 11 games since his primary profession was baseball ... per carry avg in football is 5.4 ... BA increased every year before injury up to .272 ... top 5 arm in baseball from cf ... a highlight reel because everything he did was a highlight ...

>

> Primary profession was baseball, but 135 games was the most he ever played in season (did manage to lead the league strikeouts that year, though).

> Played most of his games in LF, and second most at DH - stats show him as a negative defensive value.

> Didn't walk.

> Had a steal rate just slightly above break-even.

> Ultimately, 8.3 career WAR. What Mike Trout calls "a bad year".

>

>

 

WAR is a ridiculous stat. It's clear that you don't know baseball. Your arguments are getting cringe worthy.

[dan360]

It's just the announcers and talking heads' version of every club being 10 yards longer, straighter, and more forgiving. Hyperbole to keep the train moving.

[Ole3wiggle]

> @Wesquire said:

> > @Ole3wiggle said:

> > > @Wesquire said:

> > > > @Sixcat said:

> > > > > @"HackerD " said:

> > > > > Gary Woodland is another mentioned as very athletic, and played D2 basketball. He was not close to being NBA talent, though.

> > > >

> > > > I heard Woodland on a podcast a few weeks after the US Open. He was asked a question along the lines of _"What made you decide to ditch basketball riches for golf?"_ His reply was something like _"The first time I had to guard Kirk Hinrich, I knew I didn't have a future in basketball! There was another level and I didn't have it!"_

> > >

> > > Basketball is easily the hardest of the major team sports to have a successful pro career in.

> >

> > Interested on how you are defining "successful" here

>

> Being able to be a meaningful contribution to the team for 5+ years. The height and length you have to have already already disqualifies probably like 90% of the population. Then add the athleticism and now that you have to be able to dribble and shoot....you arent guaranteed to make it to the NBA even if you are 6'8" and a world class athlete.

 

I would argue the NHL would be harder to have a meaningful contribution of 5+ years, given your example. 99% of the population cant ice skate. Also, the NFL average career length is something like 2-3 years or something. Its incredibly hard to make a meaningful contribution in any professional sport for 5+ years.

[Ole3wiggle]

> @Wesquire said:

> > @Ole3wiggle said:

> > > @Wesquire said:

> > > > @Sixcat said:

> > > > > @"HackerD " said:

> > > > > Gary Woodland is another mentioned as very athletic, and played D2 basketball. He was not close to being NBA talent, though.

> > > >

> > > > I heard Woodland on a podcast a few weeks after the US Open. He was asked a question along the lines of _"What made you decide to ditch basketball riches for golf?"_ His reply was something like _"The first time I had to guard Kirk Hinrich, I knew I didn't have a future in basketball! There was another level and I didn't have it!"_

> > >

> > > Basketball is easily the hardest of the major team sports to have a successful pro career in.

> >

> > Interested on how you are defining "successful" here

>

> Being able to be a meaningful contribution to the team for 5+ years. The height and length you have to have already already disqualifies probably like 90% of the population. Then add the athleticism and now that you have to be able to dribble and shoot....you arent guaranteed to make it to the NBA even if you are 6'8" and a world class athlete.

 

With your logic I would say the NHL would be harder to make a meaningful contribution to a team for 5+ years. 99% of the population can't ice skate let alone have the skills required to play the game. The NFL average career is 2-3 years I believe. Its just incredibly hard to make a meaningful contribution over 5 years in any professional sport.

[cdnglf]

> @LICC said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > >

> > > > A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

> > > >

> > >

> > > If you can't understand the deficiencies of WAR and the impressiveness of 124 and 142 OPS+ seasons, then you are on full display here of your lack of credibility.

> >

> > Says the guy who cherry-picks a rate stat for a season in which Jackson only played 2/3rds of the games.

> > 124 OPS+ isn't that great for a left fielder who can't stay healthy.

>

> Please stop, you are digging a bigger credibility hole for yourself. I'm feeling bad for you.

> 124 OPS+ is generally in the top 40 or better of all of MLB. Clearly All-Star level.

 

76th in WAR is not all-star level.

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > > > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > >

> > > > > A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > If you can't understand the deficiencies of WAR and the impressiveness of 124 and 142 OPS+ seasons, then you are on full display here of your lack of credibility.

> > >

> > > Says the guy who cherry-picks a rate stat for a season in which Jackson only played 2/3rds of the games.

> > > 124 OPS+ isn't that great for a left fielder who can't stay healthy.

> >

> > Please stop, you are digging a bigger credibility hole for yourself. I'm feeling bad for you.

> > 124 OPS+ is generally in the top 40 or better of all of MLB. Clearly All-Star level.

>

> 76th in WAR is not all-star level.

 

The WAR joke again. LOL. You should stay away from talking statistics if you don't understand them.

14 MLB All-Stars this year have an OPS+ less than 124.

[cdnglf]

> @LICC said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > > > > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If you can't understand the deficiencies of WAR and the impressiveness of 124 and 142 OPS+ seasons, then you are on full display here of your lack of credibility.

> > > >

> > > > Says the guy who cherry-picks a rate stat for a season in which Jackson only played 2/3rds of the games.

> > > > 124 OPS+ isn't that great for a left fielder who can't stay healthy.

> > >

> > > Please stop, you are digging a bigger credibility hole for yourself. I'm feeling bad for you.

> > > 124 OPS+ is generally in the top 40 or better of all of MLB. Clearly All-Star level.

> >

> > 76th in WAR is not all-star level.

>

> The WAR joke again. LOL. You should stay away from talking statistics if you don't understand them.

> 14 MLB All-Stars this year have an OPS+ less than 124.

 

What is wrong with WAR?

[Krt22]

lol at debating baseball stats. No one cares

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > > > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > > > > > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If you can't understand the deficiencies of WAR and the impressiveness of 124 and 142 OPS+ seasons, then you are on full display here of your lack of credibility.

> > > > >

> > > > > Says the guy who cherry-picks a rate stat for a season in which Jackson only played 2/3rds of the games.

> > > > > 124 OPS+ isn't that great for a left fielder who can't stay healthy.

> > > >

> > > > Please stop, you are digging a bigger credibility hole for yourself. I'm feeling bad for you.

> > > > 124 OPS+ is generally in the top 40 or better of all of MLB. Clearly All-Star level.

> > >

> > > 76th in WAR is not all-star level.

> >

> > The WAR joke again. LOL. You should stay away from talking statistics if you don't understand them.

> > 14 MLB All-Stars this year have an OPS+ less than 124.

>

> What is wrong with WAR?

 

It is based on speculative judgements, and is affected by factors beyond the player's performance.

There are lots of pieces critiquing its flaws, here is one: https://medium.com/@joelkupfersmid/stat-talk-whats-wrong-with-war-wins-above-replacement-cf391eb4153

 

[smashdn]

> @mjen43 said:

> Humans don't just get round though without doing something wrong. If a player lacks the discipline to not get fat, they also likely lack the discipline to spend so much time ensuring they hit the ball on the screws at a competitive level.

>

> Also, I'm not really sure what you could do to lessen the physical specimen advantage in golf, as it is inherent to the game. They could be playing with sticks and marshmellows and the guy who can swing the stick the fastest will still have an advantage.

 

To your second point, it is only an advantage if you can square up the marshmellow and hit it pure. I play persimmon woods a bunch. I cannot go at the ball nearly as aggressively as I can with my modern driver. I have to throttle down to make pure contact. That was the original premise. If the equipment was rolled back, would that minimize the athletic advantage to the point that golfers fitness regimens would take a far back seat to actually spending time perfecting their ball striking with the driver and other woods.

 

To your first point, I don't know that I would say people carrying a little extra weight are doing something wrong. Some people are just built that way and their bodies find a natural weight to stay at. I have weighed 230lbs for almost ten years. My weight really only fluctuating at most five pounds seasonally or if I am sick. I know I _could_ cut 25 or more pounds if I had to but it would take a ton of work and lifestyle changes that I don't want to make. If I cut that weight and put on more muscle I do not think it would translate into significant gains in golf. Much like Shane Lowery or Jason Dufner or to a different direction Bubba Watson, do their physiques hold them back?

 

[MadGolfer76]

War is good for absolutely nothin'

[cdnglf]

> @LICC said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > > > > > > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you can't understand the deficiencies of WAR and the impressiveness of 124 and 142 OPS+ seasons, then you are on full display here of your lack of credibility.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Says the guy who cherry-picks a rate stat for a season in which Jackson only played 2/3rds of the games.

> > > > > > 124 OPS+ isn't that great for a left fielder who can't stay healthy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please stop, you are digging a bigger credibility hole for yourself. I'm feeling bad for you.

> > > > > 124 OPS+ is generally in the top 40 or better of all of MLB. Clearly All-Star level.

> > > >

> > > > 76th in WAR is not all-star level.

> > >

> > > The WAR joke again. LOL. You should stay away from talking statistics if you don't understand them.

> > > 14 MLB All-Stars this year have an OPS+ less than 124.

> >

> > What is wrong with WAR?

>

> It is based on speculative judgements, and is affected by factors beyond the player's performance.

> There are lots of pieces critiquing its flaws, here is one: https://medium.com/@joelkupfersmid/stat-talk-whats-wrong-with-war-wins-above-replacement-cf391eb4153

>

 

So instead, let's cherry pick a hitting-only rate stat, ignore counting stats, and ignore the defensive spectrum. Stellar.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

Nicklaus could've gone pro in no less than 4 sports. Golf. Basketball (the long and rangy kid got a partial to the OSU frosh team in the 1950s, so that was basically pro). Track (legend says he ran an 11 flat 100 as an 8th grader). Tennis (because someone once said he was good at it). Basically, at 5'10" 200, he could've dominated whatever sport he chose.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @cdnglf said:

> Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

>

> Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

>

>

 

Also, Babe's actual crossover was apparently a sight to behold. Iverson-esque.

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > He played football after the baseball season ended.

> > > > > > > > > > > > A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Why did you combine the career highs from different years?

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Why are you still trying to argue a silly assertion? Ok, a 124 OPS+ with 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, followed by a 142 OPS+ season, is justifiably an All-Star.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > A 3.5 WAR season isn't All-Star calibre.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > If you can't understand the deficiencies of WAR and the impressiveness of 124 and 142 OPS+ seasons, then you are on full display here of your lack of credibility.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Says the guy who cherry-picks a rate stat for a season in which Jackson only played 2/3rds of the games.

> > > > > > > 124 OPS+ isn't that great for a left fielder who can't stay healthy.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please stop, you are digging a bigger credibility hole for yourself. I'm feeling bad for you.

> > > > > > 124 OPS+ is generally in the top 40 or better of all of MLB. Clearly All-Star level.

> > > > >

> > > > > 76th in WAR is not all-star level.

> > > >

> > > > The WAR joke again. LOL. You should stay away from talking statistics if you don't understand them.

> > > > 14 MLB All-Stars this year have an OPS+ less than 124.

> > >

> > > What is wrong with WAR?

> >

> > It is based on speculative judgements, and is affected by factors beyond the player's performance.

> > There are lots of pieces critiquing its flaws, here is one: https://medium.com/@joelkupfersmid/stat-talk-whats-wrong-with-war-wins-above-replacement-cf391eb4153

> >

>

> So instead, let's cherry pick a hitting-only rate stat, ignore counting stats, and ignore the defensive spectrum. Stellar.

 

That hitting stat is the best overall hitting stat. It combines several stats and gives an objective relative value. There are no good accurate stats of defense.