"Some of this new crop of players could have gone professional in other sports but chose golf"

[MidwestGolfBum]

> @smashdn said:

> I'd say of the pro sports (traditional sports, not olympic sports or videuh games) baseball, hockey, basketball - though very limited (PG's in the mold of JJ Reddick or John Stockton), tennis and soccer/futball.

>

> I agree with the person that posted about pulling kids who could be good HS sports players out of those sports. There are a mess load of guys hobbling around our town with "old football (american) injuries" that only played at the HS level. I played HS baseball and could have played NAIA or D3 baseball. My knees are trashed from catching from about 11yo till I graduated. I am gently trying to push my oldest daughter into golf and soccer. She is fairly athletic no older than she is and I see those two sports as least likely to create long-term injuries and might accidentally help her in college and later in life. My sister played D1 softball. Her shoulder is shot and she isn't playing pro women's softball now. I see no reason to get my daughter into softball or baseball.

 

Not to detract from the actual thread, but as somebody who played high level soccer for many, many years, you're certainly not doing your body a whole lot of favors. I have had 4 knee surgeries, an ankle surgery, have issues with my feet because of fractures and breaks, and have issues with hips because of all the running, pivoting, kicking, getting stepped on, etc. that goes in to the sport at a higher level. I also have had countless concussions playing over the years, as have a pretty large number of the people who play. If you are looking for something that isn't hard on the body, soccer isn't going to be the sport if she wants/gets to play at a higher level. Now, I was able to travel the world while playing and have made some friendships that have lasted years so I have people to go and visit all over Europe, Asia, and Australia now, which is amazing. Take all of that as you wish.

[golfortennis]

> @cdnglf said:

> Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

>

> Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

>

>

Dave DeBusschere is one to add to that list.

And Bo Jackson was not hype over reality. Dude was an all-star outfielder and one of the best RBs in the NFL. It just seems like hype because it turns out having your hip joint pulled right out of its socket does in fact hamper your athletic ability.

 

Frankly he was the best among your list at both sports. Winfield never actually played in the NFL/NBA. Sanders was a serviceable outfielder but nothing super duper. Stole a good number of bases, but was not Jackson's level . The rest did little of note in their other sport.

 

I suspect NIcklaus could have played football, but luckily Woody Hayes caught him early and told him to stay away. Nicklaus was on the OSU basketball team.

 

 

[DFS PFD]

Is this whole thread a troll job?

[gioguy21]

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> Is this whole thread a troll job?

 

"if you gotta ask, you can't handle it" lol

[JeffreySpicoli]

I'm an athlete and I play golf.

[MidwestGolfBum]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @Dave230 said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @Dave230 said:

> > > > > @Wesquire said:

> > > > > > @straightshot7 said:

> > > > > > > @mjen43 said:

> > > > > > > Koepka admitted himself he wasn’t good at baseball, which is why he turned to golf.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > DJ would have to play PG in the NBA because he is short for a basketball player (lol good luck with that).

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nobody on tour could play any other sport professionally, or they would have. **Golf doesn’t pay well enough for a real athlete to choose it over other major sports**.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Malarkey when you factor in endorsements and longevity.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A top golfer has higher earning potential than any top football, basketball, baseball, hockey player because their career can last 40 years and they are prime endorsers.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > LeBron's career earnings + endorsements are like $2 billion

> > > >

> > > > LeBron is a once in a generation transcendent athlete, the only person worth comparing to him is Tiger, who I imagine has/had comparable wealth. Let's not pretend that golf is not incredibly well paid at the top level.

> > > >

> > > > And I'd rather be a Charles Howell knocking out 2 or 3m a year under very little scrutiny to a starter at a top sport team and the pressure that brings. Howell can also keep going until he's 50 and then continue making good money on a Champions Tour where other sports have players done not long after 30.

> > >

> > > Charles Howell is 19th on the pga tour career money list with $38m in official money. Incredibly well-paid? Sure. As well paid as guys in the big four North American leagues? Not even close.

> > >

> > > 19th on the career MLB earnings list is Ryan Howard, at $180M. 19th on the NBA list is Luol Deng, at $156M. NFL, Trent Williams, $95M. NHL, Patrice Bergeron, $84M. The difference is vast, and nowhere near offset by endorsements, longer careers, or the relative chump change of the Champions Tour.

> > >

> > > Also, the team sports have more and better-paying management, coaching, and broadcasting jobs for ex-players. I mean... there are probably more NFL “analysts” alone than there are Champions Tour cards.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Forbes list of best paid sportspeople of all-time has 4 golfers in the top 6 (Tiger, Palmer, Nicklaus and Mickelson) alongside Jordan and Schumacher. The earning long-term potential of golf is very lucrative and accumulates over the years if you're smart with it. Tiger is behind Jordan but he probably cost himself $400-500m with injuries and the **** scandal, if he'd had a more durable career like Mickelson (with the same number of wins Tiger has) in the top 50 for 25 years he would have been miles ahead.

>

> Arnie/Jack/Phil/Tiger is a once in a generation transcendent athlete...

>

> If you’re the top golfer of your time, yes you can earn as much or more than the top guys in the other sports. There are a handful of guys at the top who get almost all the endorsement money. But after that, it falls off very quickly. Charles Howell doesn’t have a drink deal, and nobody is anchoring real estate projects with CH3-designed courses.

>

> Fundamentally, the team sports are just way bigger businesses than golf. The NHL, which is the smallest, has 31 teams paying an average of about $75M/year in salary. That’s over $2.25B/year. The total PGA Tour purse (incl FedEx Cup bonuses and majors) is at best maybe a quarter of that, probably less.

 

Just for "fun" and because your comment got me interested, the total purse for the year is $377.85 million, assuming I didn't miss something in there. That includes the opposite field events. Now, the top players play some events on the Euro schedule, like the events in Dubai and some of the stuff leading up to the British, as well which aren't in that number and they reportedly get some appearance fees for those, but nothing official. The money in golf isn't as amazing as one might think when you compare it to things like the NHL. You start comparing to leagues like the English Premier League with their totals approaching $4B/year you start to see how low the PGA really is. I mean, Manchester United had an estimated wage bill of $385M in the 17/18 season alone.

[Wesquire]

> @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @Dave230 said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @Dave230 said:

> > > > > > @Wesquire said:

> > > > > > > @straightshot7 said:

> > > > > > > > @mjen43 said:

> > > > > > > > Koepka admitted himself he wasn’t good at baseball, which is why he turned to golf.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DJ would have to play PG in the NBA because he is short for a basketball player (lol good luck with that).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nobody on tour could play any other sport professionally, or they would have. **Golf doesn’t pay well enough for a real athlete to choose it over other major sports**.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Malarkey when you factor in endorsements and longevity.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A top golfer has higher earning potential than any top football, basketball, baseball, hockey player because their career can last 40 years and they are prime endorsers.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LeBron's career earnings + endorsements are like $2 billion

> > > > >

> > > > > LeBron is a once in a generation transcendent athlete, the only person worth comparing to him is Tiger, who I imagine has/had comparable wealth. Let's not pretend that golf is not incredibly well paid at the top level.

> > > > >

> > > > > And I'd rather be a Charles Howell knocking out 2 or 3m a year under very little scrutiny to a starter at a top sport team and the pressure that brings. Howell can also keep going until he's 50 and then continue making good money on a Champions Tour where other sports have players done not long after 30.

> > > >

> > > > Charles Howell is 19th on the pga tour career money list with $38m in official money. Incredibly well-paid? Sure. As well paid as guys in the big four North American leagues? Not even close.

> > > >

> > > > 19th on the career MLB earnings list is Ryan Howard, at $180M. 19th on the NBA list is Luol Deng, at $156M. NFL, Trent Williams, $95M. NHL, Patrice Bergeron, $84M. The difference is vast, and nowhere near offset by endorsements, longer careers, or the relative chump change of the Champions Tour.

> > > >

> > > > Also, the team sports have more and better-paying management, coaching, and broadcasting jobs for ex-players. I mean... there are probably more NFL “analysts” alone than there are Champions Tour cards.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Forbes list of best paid sportspeople of all-time has 4 golfers in the top 6 (Tiger, Palmer, Nicklaus and Mickelson) alongside Jordan and Schumacher. The earning long-term potential of golf is very lucrative and accumulates over the years if you're smart with it. Tiger is behind Jordan but he probably cost himself $400-500m with injuries and the **** scandal, if he'd had a more durable career like Mickelson (with the same number of wins Tiger has) in the top 50 for 25 years he would have been miles ahead.

> >

> > Arnie/Jack/Phil/Tiger is a once in a generation transcendent athlete...

> >

> > If you’re the top golfer of your time, yes you can earn as much or more than the top guys in the other sports. There are a handful of guys at the top who get almost all the endorsement money. But after that, it falls off very quickly. Charles Howell doesn’t have a drink deal, and nobody is anchoring real estate projects with CH3-designed courses.

> >

> > Fundamentally, the team sports are just way bigger businesses than golf. The NHL, which is the smallest, has 31 teams paying an average of about $75M/year in salary. That’s over $2.25B/year. The total PGA Tour purse (incl FedEx Cup bonuses and majors) is at best maybe a quarter of that, probably less.

>

> Just for "fun" and because your comment got me interested, the total purse for the year is $377.85 million, assuming I didn't miss something in there. That includes the opposite field events. Now, the top players play some events on the Euro schedule, like the events in Dubai and some of the stuff leading up to the British, as well which aren't in that number and they reportedly get some appearance fees for those, but nothing official. The money in golf isn't as amazing as one might think when you compare it to things like the NHL. You start comparing to leagues like the English Premier League with their totals approaching $4B/year you start to see how low the PGA really is. I mean, Manchester United had an estimated wage bill of $385M in the 17/18 season alone.

 

The viewership for the PGA is just nowhere near the big team sports. The final round of the masters gets about the same viewership as a big regular season college football game.

 

Again, not claiming it is a sport, but esports completely dwarfs everything else in terms of viewership. The League of Legends finals had about 15 times more viewers than the masters.

[mjen43]

> @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @Dave230 said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @Dave230 said:

> > > > > > @Wesquire said:

> > > > > > > @straightshot7 said:

> > > > > > > > @mjen43 said:

> > > > > > > > Koepka admitted himself he wasn’t good at baseball, which is why he turned to golf.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > DJ would have to play PG in the NBA because he is short for a basketball player (lol good luck with that).

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nobody on tour could play any other sport professionally, or they would have. **Golf doesn’t pay well enough for a real athlete to choose it over other major sports**.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Malarkey when you factor in endorsements and longevity.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > A top golfer has higher earning potential than any top football, basketball, baseball, hockey player because their career can last 40 years and they are prime endorsers.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > LeBron's career earnings + endorsements are like $2 billion

> > > > >

> > > > > LeBron is a once in a generation transcendent athlete, the only person worth comparing to him is Tiger, who I imagine has/had comparable wealth. Let's not pretend that golf is not incredibly well paid at the top level.

> > > > >

> > > > > And I'd rather be a Charles Howell knocking out 2 or 3m a year under very little scrutiny to a starter at a top sport team and the pressure that brings. Howell can also keep going until he's 50 and then continue making good money on a Champions Tour where other sports have players done not long after 30.

> > > >

> > > > Charles Howell is 19th on the pga tour career money list with $38m in official money. Incredibly well-paid? Sure. As well paid as guys in the big four North American leagues? Not even close.

> > > >

> > > > 19th on the career MLB earnings list is Ryan Howard, at $180M. 19th on the NBA list is Luol Deng, at $156M. NFL, Trent Williams, $95M. NHL, Patrice Bergeron, $84M. The difference is vast, and nowhere near offset by endorsements, longer careers, or the relative chump change of the Champions Tour.

> > > >

> > > > Also, the team sports have more and better-paying management, coaching, and broadcasting jobs for ex-players. I mean... there are probably more NFL “analysts” alone than there are Champions Tour cards.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Forbes list of best paid sportspeople of all-time has 4 golfers in the top 6 (Tiger, Palmer, Nicklaus and Mickelson) alongside Jordan and Schumacher. The earning long-term potential of golf is very lucrative and accumulates over the years if you're smart with it. Tiger is behind Jordan but he probably cost himself $400-500m with injuries and the **** scandal, if he'd had a more durable career like Mickelson (with the same number of wins Tiger has) in the top 50 for 25 years he would have been miles ahead.

> >

> > Arnie/Jack/Phil/Tiger is a once in a generation transcendent athlete...

> >

> > If you’re the top golfer of your time, yes you can earn as much or more than the top guys in the other sports. There are a handful of guys at the top who get almost all the endorsement money. But after that, it falls off very quickly. Charles Howell doesn’t have a drink deal, and nobody is anchoring real estate projects with CH3-designed courses.

> >

> > Fundamentally, the team sports are just way bigger businesses than golf. The NHL, which is the smallest, has 31 teams paying an average of about $75M/year in salary. That’s over $2.25B/year. The total PGA Tour purse (incl FedEx Cup bonuses and majors) is at best maybe a quarter of that, probably less.

>

> Just for "fun" and because your comment got me interested, the total purse for the year is $377.85 million, assuming I didn't miss something in there. That includes the opposite field events. Now, the top players play some events on the Euro schedule, like the events in Dubai and some of the stuff leading up to the British, as well which aren't in that number and they reportedly get some appearance fees for those, but nothing official. The money in golf isn't as amazing as one might think when you compare it to things like the NHL. You start comparing to leagues like the English Premier League with their totals approaching $4B/year you start to see how low the PGA really is. I mean, Manchester United had an estimated wage bill of $385M in the 17/18 season alone.

 

Mike Trout's contract is worth more than the entire total PGA Tour purse this season, and he doesn't even have to perform anymore to receive that money. All he has to do is show up.

 

At the core, all sports provide its players the same thing. Elite athletes are driven to win, and the sport is just the vehicle in which they do so. The money is just a bonus. If PGA Tour guys could successfully navigate a professional career in a higher paying sport, of which there are quite a few in the US, they would. There is nothing special about golf that attracts a certain type of athletic mental makeup over different sports.

[cdnglf]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> >

> > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> >

> >

> Dave DeBusschere is one to add to that list.

> And Bo Jackson was not hype over reality. Dude was an all-star outfielder and one of the best RBs in the NFL. It just seems like hype because it turns out having your hip joint pulled right out of its socket does in fact hamper your athletic ability.

>

> Frankly he was the best among your list at both sports. Winfield never actually played in the NFL/NBA. Sanders was a serviceable outfielder but nothing super duper. Stole a good number of bases, but was not Jackson's level . The rest did little of note in their other sport.

>

> I suspect NIcklaus could have played football, but luckily Woody Hayes caught him early and told him to stay away. Nicklaus was on the OSU basketball team.

>

>

 

Jackson's career WAR was 8.3, most of that due to a single 3.5 WAR season. Not much better than Deion's 5.5/3.2. Deion was a way better football player than Jackson was, or could be reasonably projected to have become.

 

Was trying to keep the list to guys who were at least high-level pro prospects in a second sport. Don't think Nicklaus qualifies.

[tiderider]

> @Bluefan75 said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> >

> > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> >

> >

> Dave DeBusschere is one to add to that list.

> **And Bo Jackson was not hype over reality. Dude was an all-star outfielder and one of the best RBs in the NFL. It just seems like hype because it turns out having your hip joint pulled right out of its socket does in fact hamper your athletic ability. **

>

> Frankly he was the best among your list at both sports. Winfield never actually played in the NFL/NBA. Sanders was a serviceable outfielder but nothing super duper. Stole a good number of bases, but was not Jackson's level . The rest did little of note in their other sport.

>

> I suspect NIcklaus could have played football, but luckily Woody Hayes caught him early and told him to stay away. Nicklaus was on the OSU basketball team.

>

>

bo is the best athlete i ever saw ... i like prime time, but he couldn't carry bo's jock strap ...

 

jack was actually honorable mention all-state at bball his sr year ... think he was given a partial scholly, but that was probably to cover his golf ...

 

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

>

> Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

>

>

 

How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

 

Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

[Ole3wiggle]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Ole3wiggle said:

> > > @Dave230 said:

> > > There is a weird obsession with golfers being athletes or at least being portrayed as them on TV. Lowry proved at The Open that it's still mainly a skill-based sport, he's not got the physique of an athlete but he has the hand-eye coordination and skill level that a lot of other sportspeople would dream of having and he doesn't need to bench press how many pounds to do it.

> >

> > I tend to agree with this. Golf is just a game. It's like darts or pool. At the top level its mostly based on intellect & skill. Obviously being fit/strong can help you in golf (However, look at Rory who's prolly 5'9'' and 170 lbs and yet he can hit it further than almost anybody). You don't need to be a physical specimen to win on the PGA TOUR.

>

> You have to be somewhat strong and flexible in all the right places to hit it like Rory. Also very good hand/eye coordination. It is a special skill set.

 

Exactly, its a very hand/eye or "skill sport". Is there a physical aspect to golf? Of course. But you dont need to be an athletic freak to be able to compete and win on the PGA TOUR. You need to be an athletic freak to play in the NFL.

[Lagavulin62]

I graduated HS in 81. The best golfers and tennis players on the team were the best because the best athletes on the football, baseball, and basketball teams DID NOT play golf. I’m not a natural athlete by any means. Far from a klutz too. But I can look at kids, adults, and know who has athletic ability. I am a firm believer that attracting the young athletes to compete in golf and tennis will improve competitiveness for those sports.

[Ole3wiggle]

> @Wesquire said:

> > @Sixcat said:

> > > @"HackerD " said:

> > > Gary Woodland is another mentioned as very athletic, and played D2 basketball. He was not close to being NBA talent, though.

> >

> > I heard Woodland on a podcast a few weeks after the US Open. He was asked a question along the lines of _"What made you decide to ditch basketball riches for golf?"_ His reply was something like _"The first time I had to guard Kirk Hinrich, I knew I didn't have a future in basketball! There was another level and I didn't have it!"_

>

> Basketball is easily the hardest of the major team sports to have a successful pro career in.

 

Interested on how you are defining "successful" here

[Wesquire]

> @Ole3wiggle said:

> > @Wesquire said:

> > > @Sixcat said:

> > > > @"HackerD " said:

> > > > Gary Woodland is another mentioned as very athletic, and played D2 basketball. He was not close to being NBA talent, though.

> > >

> > > I heard Woodland on a podcast a few weeks after the US Open. He was asked a question along the lines of _"What made you decide to ditch basketball riches for golf?"_ His reply was something like _"The first time I had to guard Kirk Hinrich, I knew I didn't have a future in basketball! There was another level and I didn't have it!"_

> >

> > Basketball is easily the hardest of the major team sports to have a successful pro career in.

>

> Interested on how you are defining "successful" here

 

Being able to be a meaningful contribution to the team for 5+ years. The height and length you have to have already already disqualifies probably like 90% of the population. Then add the athleticism and now that you have to be able to dribble and shoot....you arent guaranteed to make it to the NBA even if you are 6'8" and a world class athlete.

[cdnglf]

> @LICC said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> >

> > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> >

> >

>

> How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

>

> Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

 

Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

 

In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

 

Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

[smashdn]

Michael Jordan

Tim Tebow

 

Not MLB level but still technically professional baseball players.

 

Here is an aside question to ponder, if the equipment forced a higher level of hand-eye coordination/skill and rewarded athletic ability less (think persimmon and blades), would we see the body-type of golfers who are at the top of the sport transition back to folks who are a little more "round?"

[Wesquire]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > >

> > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> >

> > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

>

> Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

>

> In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

>

> Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

 

He was a top 3 running back his Rookie season after taking 3 years off. He was generationally good.

[mjen43]

> @smashdn said:

> Michael Jordan

> Tim Tebow

>

> Not MLB level but still technically professional baseball players.

>

> Here is an aside question to ponder, if the equipment forced a higher level of hand-eye coordination/skill and rewarded athletic ability less (think persimmon and blades), would we see the body-type of golfers who are at the top of the sport transition back to folks who are a little more "round?"

 

Hell no. There is no evidence "round" people have higher levels of hand-eye coordination than athletic people. In fact I would say the opposite is more likely true, as "round" people are less likely to have the required dedication and discipline to push themselves to excel in a physical endevour (which golf inherently is) than those who keep themselves in shape.

 

The only reason golfers didn't used to physically train is because they didn't have to to compete.

[smashdn]

> @mjen43 said:

> **** no. There is no evidence "round" people have higher levels of hand-eye coordination than athletic people. In fact I would say the opposite is more likely true, as "round" people are less likely to have the required dedication and discipline to push themselves to excel in a physical endevour than those who keep themselves in shape.

 

 

I think you are getting cause and effect mixed up. You don't have better hand eye coordination because you are round. You get round because the advantage to being a physical specimen is lessened. You need to spend more time ensuring you hit the ball on the screws so you have less time to throw the medicine ball or lift.

 

[bscinstnct]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > >

> > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> >

> > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

>

> Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

>

> In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

>

> Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

 

Yeah, but, in 1989 Bo

 

Hit 32 home runs in the MLB and

Rushed for 950 yards (not a ton but consider 5.5 yards per carry) in the NFL

 

Nobody in world history could ever do anything remotely resembling that!

 

 

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > >

> > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> >

> > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

>

> Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

>

> In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

>

> Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

 

WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

[mjen43]

> @smashdn said:

> > @mjen43 said:

> > **** no. There is no evidence "round" people have higher levels of hand-eye coordination than athletic people. In fact I would say the opposite is more likely true, as "round" people are less likely to have the required dedication and discipline to push themselves to excel in a physical endevour than those who keep themselves in shape.

>

>

> I think you are getting cause and effect mixed up. You don't have better hand eye coordination because you are round. You get round because the advantage to being a physical specimen is lessened. You need to spend more time ensuring you hit the ball on the screws so you have less time to throw the medicine ball or lift.

>

 

Humans don't just get round though without doing something wrong. If a player lacks the discipline to not get fat, they also likely lack the discipline to spend so much time ensuring they hit the ball on the screws at a competitive level.

 

Also, I'm not really sure what you could do to lessen the physical specimen advantage in golf, as it is inherent to the game. They could be playing with sticks and marshmellows and the guy who can swing the stick the fastest will still have an advantage.

[LICC]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > >

> > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > >

> > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> >

> > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> >

> > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> >

> > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

>

> Yeah, but, in 1989 Bo

>

> Hit 32 home runs in the MLB and

> Rushed for 950 yards (not a ton but consider 5.5 yards per carry) in the NFL

>

> Nobody in world history could ever do anything remotely resembling that!

>

>

Chuck Connors. Played for the Cubs and the Celtics, and was The Rifleman.

 

[cdnglf]

> @LICC said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > >

> > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > >

> > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> >

> > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> >

> > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> >

> > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

>

> WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

 

No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

 

If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

[LICC]

> @cdnglf said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > >

> > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > >

> > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > >

> > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > >

> > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > >

> > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> >

> > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

>

> No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

>

> If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

 

He played football after the baseball season ended.

A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

[Wesquire]

[LICC]

> @Wesquire said:

>

 

It's silly to even try to argue that Bo Jackson wasn't a top baseball player.

[Wesquire]

> @LICC said:

> > @Wesquire said:

> >

>

> It's silly to even try to argue that Bo Jackson wasn't a top baseball player.

 

He was nearly at the warning track and threw him out after he already rounded third.

[cdnglf]

> @LICC said:

> > @cdnglf said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @cdnglf said:

> > > > > > Deion Sanders - Hall of Fame NFLer and ok MLBer

> > > > > > Danny Ainge - Solid NBA player, brief MLB career

> > > > > > Bo Jackson - Hype exceeded the reality, but still... played in both the NFL and MLB.

> > > > > > Dave Winfield - Drafted by 4 different leagues (ABA, NBA, MLB, NFL) in 3 different sports.

> > > > > > Tom Glavine - MLB Hall of Famer, Mid-round NHL draft pick.

> > > > > > Charlie Ward - NBA player, Heismann winner, token MLB draft pick

> > > > > > Kyler Murray - 1st overall NFL draft pick, 9th overall MLB draft pick

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Babe Didrikson is the only golfer I can think of with comparable crossover abilities.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > How did Bo Jackson hype exceed reality? He was a Pro Bowler in the NFL and an All-Star in MLB. A tremendous player in both sports.

> > > > >

> > > > > Rick Rhoden was a MLB All-Star and good enough at golf to play in the U.S. Senior Open and Champions Tour events.

> > > >

> > > > Jackson looked great and was capable of awesome highlight reel stuff, but his actual output was very small.

> > > >

> > > > In baseball, 8.3 career WAR with a single-season best of 3.5.

> > > > In football, less than 3000 yards total rushing and 18 TD total. Never rushed for 1000 yards, or played more than 11 games in a season.

> > > >

> > > > Rhoden is interesting... wasn't really thinking of senior golf guys.

> > >

> > > WAR is a deficient statistic. In his two best baseball seasons before he was injured, he had a 124 and 142 OPS+.

> > > In his two best NFL seasons before his injury, he had 5.5 and 5.6 yards per carry. He was one of the best players in both sports before he was injured.

> >

> > No, that is just silly. He was nowhere near being one of the best players in baseball at any point.

> >

> > If you do a whole bunch of caveating, you can make the argument he was one of the best players in football for a very short period of time on a pro-rated basis. But durability matters, and he didn't have it.

>

> He played football after the baseball season ended.

> A 142 OPS+ with a 30 HR/25 SB talent, a rocket for an arm, and highlight-reel defense, is justifiably an All-Star.

 

Why did you combine the career highs from different years?