2019 United States Amateur

[jdl]

Ogletree comes all the way back to win it, congrats to him. Well played match.

[2putttom]

Augenstein appeared o give up on the 35th green

[tiderider]

> @2putttom said:

> Augenstein appeared o give up on the 35th green

 

i'm sure that's what it was ... just quit right then and there after a million holes of golf and being 1 down ... just gave up ... yep ...

 

NEVER change, golfwrx!

[Darth Putter]

[tiderider]

would love to see that on tv ... was it on tv at lacc?

[Darth Putter]

> @"15th Club" said:

> Watching: US Am or BMW/FedEx Cup?

>

> Easy choice.

> * The Am features newer, less known (and thereby more interesting to me) faces in golf.

> * The Am is on a much better golf course.

> * Match play is so thrilling because we see so little of it.

> * Notwithstanding the clear demerits of Fox commentators (bad, and not getting any better), Fox does some really great things technically with a golf telecast. Including but not limited to player/caddy discussions.

> * We can watch the Tour telecast on replay on Golf Channel tonight, right?

> * The Am is a National Championship. A major, as far as I am concerned.

>

 

The final with be replayed in a two hour window starting at 3:30 AM EDT on FS1

[15th Club]

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> > @"15th Club" said:

> > Watching: US Am or BMW/FedEx Cup?

> >

> > Easy choice.

> > * The Am features newer, less known (and thereby more interesting to me) faces in golf.

> > * The Am is on a much better golf course.

> > * Match play is so thrilling because we see so little of it.

> > * Notwithstanding the clear demerits of Fox commentators (bad, and not getting any better), Fox does some really great things technically with a golf telecast. Including but not limited to player/caddy discussions.

> > * We can watch the Tour telecast on replay on Golf Channel tonight, right?

> > * The Am is a National Championship. A major, as far as I am concerned.

> >

>

> The final with be replayed in a two hour window starting at 3:30 AM EDT on FS1

 

 

Did not know that. Thank you very much.

[1t2golf]

> @farmer said:

> Ah, my old guy lack of computer literacy bites again.

 

FIFY

[1t2golf]

# 2> @"Darth Putter" said:

>

 

That's quite a team.

[farmer]

A million holes, some bad weather, hot, humid, brutal golf course, you have to be young and strong to last. These kids showed some stuff today, and, no, Augunstein did not give up. Ogletree a deserving winner.

[2putttom]

> @tiderider said:

> > @2putttom said:

> > Augenstein appeared o give up on the 35th green

>

> i'm sure that's what it was ... just quit right then and there after a million holes of golf and being 1 down ... just gave up ... yep ...

>

> NEVER change, golfwrx!

 

I've seen more determination in a woodchuck trying to mount a water buffalo then I saw on his face

[tiderider]

> @2putttom said:

> > @tiderider said:

> > > @2putttom said:

> > > Augenstein appeared o give up on the 35th green

> >

> > i'm sure that's what it was ... just quit right then and there after a million holes of golf and being 1 down ... just gave up ... yep ...

> >

> > NEVER change, golfwrx!

>

> I've seen more determination in a woodchuck trying to mount a water buffalo then I saw on his face

 

Speak up ... bleachers are loud after the events over ...

[LICC]

> @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

>

> Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

 

The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

[Tony_Ireland]

Do we not have an Ogletree witb yet? Cmon guys :)

[Tony_Ireland]

> @LICC said:

> > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> >

> > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

>

> The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

 

> @LICC said:

> > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> >

> > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

>

> The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

 

To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

 

 

[Johnny Biarritz]

> @Tony_Ireland said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> > >

> > > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

> >

> > The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

>

> To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

>

>

It's hardly a unique incident. Thomas hit 8 iron from 180 into an uphill par 4 that plays 476 yards when he holed out on Saturday. That's on a soft course. Guys were hitting 9 irons and wedges into the second hole at Pebble; hole plays over 500. I saw guys hitting irons on a 245 yard par 3 at Medinah. Also, people were going for the 16th green at Firestone in two...Jesus wept, the hole is 667 yards long and has a pond in front of the green.

 

[LICC]

> @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

> > >

> > > The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

> >

> > To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

> >

> >

> It's hardly a unique incident. Thomas hit 8 iron from 180 into an uphill par 4 that plays 476 yards when he holed out on Saturday. That's on a soft course. Guys were hitting 9 irons and wedges into the second hole at Pebble; hole plays over 500. I saw guys hitting irons on a 245 yard par 3 at Medinah. Also, people were going for the 16th green at Firestone in two...Jesus wept, the hole is 667 yards long and has a pond in front of the green.

>

 

It's the same at almost every course the Tour plays. Most all the courses cut the fairways tight and get lots of run. And even if they didn't these guys are carrying 330+ and hitting 8-irons 200 yards. The Tour should at least adjust par on these holes. 330 or less is a par-3. You can even take the par-4-s up to 600, if par is supposed to be what they expect to score if they make their expected, error-free shots.

[bullie76]

Congrats to Olgetree. He grew up 25 miles from my hometown and played at a local club. Good kid and family.

[Tony_Ireland]

> @LICC said:

> > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

> > > >

> > > > The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

> > >

> > > To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

> > >

> > >

> > It's hardly a unique incident. Thomas hit 8 iron from 180 into an uphill par 4 that plays 476 yards when he holed out on Saturday. That's on a soft course. Guys were hitting 9 irons and wedges into the second hole at Pebble; hole plays over 500. I saw guys hitting irons on a 245 yard par 3 at Medinah. Also, people were going for the 16th green at Firestone in two...Jesus wept, the hole is 667 yards long and has a pond in front of the green.

> >

>

> It's the same at almost every course the Tour plays. Most all the courses cut the fairways tight and get lots of run. And even if they didn't these guys are carrying 330+ and hitting 8-irons 200 yards. The Tour should at least adjust par on these holes. 330 or less is a par-3. You can even take the par-4-s up to 600, if par is supposed to be what they expect to score if they make their expected, error-free shots.

 

“These guys are carrying it 330”, are you having a laugh?

[LICC]

> @Tony_Ireland said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

> > > > >

> > > > > The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

> > > >

> > > > To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

> > > >

> > > >

> > > It's hardly a unique incident. Thomas hit 8 iron from 180 into an uphill par 4 that plays 476 yards when he holed out on Saturday. That's on a soft course. Guys were hitting 9 irons and wedges into the second hole at Pebble; hole plays over 500. I saw guys hitting irons on a 245 yard par 3 at Medinah. Also, people were going for the 16th green at Firestone in two...Jesus wept, the hole is 667 yards long and has a pond in front of the green.

> > >

> >

> > It's the same at almost every course the Tour plays. Most all the courses cut the fairways tight and get lots of run. And even if they didn't these guys are carrying 330+ and hitting 8-irons 200 yards. The Tour should at least adjust par on these holes. 330 or less is a par-3. You can even take the par-4-s up to 600, if par is supposed to be what they expect to score if they make their expected, error-free shots.

>

> “These guys are carrying it 330”, are you having a laugh?

 

Do you think the longer hitters on Tour don't carry their drives 330 when they need to?

[Krt22]

> @LICC said:

> > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

> > > > >

> > > > > To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > It's hardly a unique incident. Thomas hit 8 iron from 180 into an uphill par 4 that plays 476 yards when he holed out on Saturday. That's on a soft course. Guys were hitting 9 irons and wedges into the second hole at Pebble; hole plays over 500. I saw guys hitting irons on a 245 yard par 3 at Medinah. Also, people were going for the 16th green at Firestone in two...Jesus wept, the hole is 667 yards long and has a pond in front of the green.

> > > >

> > >

> > > It's the same at almost every course the Tour plays. Most all the courses cut the fairways tight and get lots of run. And even if they didn't these guys are carrying 330+ and hitting 8-irons 200 yards. The Tour should at least adjust par on these holes. 330 or less is a par-3. You can even take the par-4-s up to 600, if par is supposed to be what they expect to score if they make their expected, error-free shots.

> >

> > “These guys are carrying it 330”, are you having a laugh?

>

> Do you think the longer hitters on Tour don't carry their drives 330 when they need to?

 

Not without some environmental help (wind/elevation). 330 carry on a flat hole requires close to 190mph ball speed, only a handful of guys have that speed and only 1 (cam champ) averages around that.

[LICC]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > It's hardly a unique incident. Thomas hit 8 iron from 180 into an uphill par 4 that plays 476 yards when he holed out on Saturday. That's on a soft course. Guys were hitting 9 irons and wedges into the second hole at Pebble; hole plays over 500. I saw guys hitting irons on a 245 yard par 3 at Medinah. Also, people were going for the 16th green at Firestone in two...Jesus wept, the hole is 667 yards long and has a pond in front of the green.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > It's the same at almost every course the Tour plays. Most all the courses cut the fairways tight and get lots of run. And even if they didn't these guys are carrying 330+ and hitting 8-irons 200 yards. The Tour should at least adjust par on these holes. 330 or less is a par-3. You can even take the par-4-s up to 600, if par is supposed to be what they expect to score if they make their expected, error-free shots.

> > >

> > > “These guys are carrying it 330”, are you having a laugh?

> >

> > Do you think the longer hitters on Tour don't carry their drives 330 when they need to?

>

> Not without some environmental help (wind/elevation). 330 carry on a flat hole requires close to 190mph ball speed, only a handful of guys have that speed and only 1 (cam champ) averages around that.

 

At least a dozen players hit a 330 carry drive this year. Ok, make it 310 if that makes you feel better, the point is the same. Holes under 600 yards are not really par-5s for these guys.

[Johnny Biarritz]

> @LICC said:

> > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

> > > > >

> > > > > To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > It's hardly a unique incident. Thomas hit 8 iron from 180 into an uphill par 4 that plays 476 yards when he holed out on Saturday. That's on a soft course. Guys were hitting 9 irons and wedges into the second hole at Pebble; hole plays over 500. I saw guys hitting irons on a 245 yard par 3 at Medinah. Also, people were going for the 16th green at Firestone in two...Jesus wept, the hole is 667 yards long and has a pond in front of the green.

> > > >

> > >

> > > It's the same at almost every course the Tour plays. Most all the courses cut the fairways tight and get lots of run. And even if they didn't these guys are carrying 330+ and hitting 8-irons 200 yards. The Tour should at least adjust par on these holes. 330 or less is a par-3. You can even take the par-4-s up to 600, if par is supposed to be what they expect to score if they make their expected, error-free shots.

> >

> > “These guys are carrying it 330”, are you having a laugh?

>

> Do you think the longer hitters on Tour don't carry their drives 330 when they need to?

 

The number of guys who can do that on a flat hole with calm conditions can probably be counted on your two hands. Rory, statistically the longest driver on Tour last year, carried his tee shot about 310 on the last hole at East Lake; that hole plays significantly downhill from the tee. 16 at Firestone gets some huge drives, it plays over 60 ft downhill, shots are getting 100+ yards of roll. I just looked at a few players on the 10th hole at Bethpage during the first round (when I know the conditions were calm). The tenth hole has roughly the elevation change of an airport until you reach the end of the fairway, then it goes uphill to the green. Very few drives over 300 yards total distance. Even on Sunday when there was a tremendous wind directly behind the players, very few drives over the 325 mark.

[Johnny Biarritz]

> @LICC said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > It's hardly a unique incident. Thomas hit 8 iron from 180 into an uphill par 4 that plays 476 yards when he holed out on Saturday. That's on a soft course. Guys were hitting 9 irons and wedges into the second hole at Pebble; hole plays over 500. I saw guys hitting irons on a 245 yard par 3 at Medinah. Also, people were going for the 16th green at Firestone in two...Jesus wept, the hole is 667 yards long and has a pond in front of the green.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > It's the same at almost every course the Tour plays. Most all the courses cut the fairways tight and get lots of run. And even if they didn't these guys are carrying 330+ and hitting 8-irons 200 yards. The Tour should at least adjust par on these holes. 330 or less is a par-3. You can even take the par-4-s up to 600, if par is supposed to be what they expect to score if they make their expected, error-free shots.

> > > >

> > > > “These guys are carrying it 330”, are you having a laugh?

> > >

> > > Do you think the longer hitters on Tour don't carry their drives 330 when they need to?

> >

> > Not without some environmental help (wind/elevation). 330 carry on a flat hole requires close to 190mph ball speed, only a handful of guys have that speed and only 1 (cam champ) averages around that.

>

> At least a dozen players hit a 330 carry drive this year. Ok, make it 310 if that makes you feel better, the point is the same. Holes under 600 yards are not really par-5s for these guys.

 

Which players and which holes? Take Kapalua, with huge elevation change and wind, out of the calculations.

[Krt22]

330 carry, yeah potentially with wind/elevation, not happening on every hole/day. And 310 and 330 are quite a bit different and that has nothing to do with how I feel. On a 600 yard hole, having 270 vs 290 left to reach is a huge difference, especially if there is trouble around the green.

 

The real issue here isnt the length players have, it's this whole notion of the "sanctity of par" that some folks can't let go of. At the end of the day it's the guy with the fewest strokes made who wins, it doesn't matter what they call par.

[farmer]

Thank you, Bullie.

[LICC]

> @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Krt22 said:

> > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > > > @Tony_Ireland said:

> > > > > > > > > @LICC said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Johnny Biarritz" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Looking at this course , it only has 2 par 5s. I’m guessing 2 of the par4s are played as par 5s by regular folks ? Yep two par 4s over 520 yards. Woof.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Yeah, they convert 8 and 16 into par 4s. The crazy thing with 520 is that it looks nonsensical to normal players, but for top amateurs and especially pros, that hole is played with a driver and a 6 or 7 iron. Someone posted about "short" par 4s being the backbone of golf courses, but what's a short 4? Top level guys are reaching 300 yards holes in one shot and 440 holes are approached with wedges.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The PGA Tour should go in this direction. Anything under 575 yards is a par 4.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > To be fair the place is like concrete, cant take yardages there as the usual, for the most part

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's hardly a unique incident. Thomas hit 8 iron from 180 into an uphill par 4 that plays 476 yards when he holed out on Saturday. That's on a soft course. Guys were hitting 9 irons and wedges into the second hole at Pebble; hole plays over 500. I saw guys hitting irons on a 245 yard par 3 at Medinah. Also, people were going for the 16th green at Firestone in two...Jesus wept, the hole is 667 yards long and has a pond in front of the green.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's the same at almost every course the Tour plays. Most all the courses cut the fairways tight and get lots of run. And even if they didn't these guys are carrying 330+ and hitting 8-irons 200 yards. The Tour should at least adjust par on these holes. 330 or less is a par-3. You can even take the par-4-s up to 600, if par is supposed to be what they expect to score if they make their expected, error-free shots.

> > > > >

> > > > > “These guys are carrying it 330”, are you having a laugh?

> > > >

> > > > Do you think the longer hitters on Tour don't carry their drives 330 when they need to?

> > >

> > > Not without some environmental help (wind/elevation). 330 carry on a flat hole requires close to 190mph ball speed, only a handful of guys have that speed and only 1 (cam champ) averages around that.

> >

> > At least a dozen players hit a 330 carry drive this year. Ok, make it 310 if that makes you feel better, the point is the same. Holes under 600 yards are not really par-5s for these guys.

>

> Which players and which holes? Take Kapalua, with huge elevation change and wind, out of the calculations.

 

The Tour stats site for 2019 has Champ, Mullinax, McIlroy, Mickelson, Wyndham Clark, Mitchell, Schniederjans, Cameron Davis, Burns, Woodland, Holmes, Bubba, Gribble, Tway, Seth Reeves, Adam Shenk, and Rodgers all with carry drives at 330 or more. DJ, Koepka, and Matsuyama were at 329. A handful more were at 325+. The average carry of this group was roughly 290-304, with Champ way ahead at 311. Their shortest carries were generally in the 260s-low 270s.

[LICC]

> @Krt22 said:

> 330 carry, yeah potentially with wind/elevation, not happening on every hole/day. And 310 and 330 are quite a bit different and that has nothing to do with how I feel. On a 600 yard hole, having 270 vs 290 left to reach is a huge difference, especially if there is trouble around the green.

>

> The real issue here isnt the length players have, it's this whole notion of the "sanctity of par" that some folks can't let go of. At the end of the day it's the guy with the fewest strokes made who wins, it doesn't matter what they call par.

 

We are just talking carry. On a 595 yard hole with a 310 carry, add more distance for the roll. Yes, it is a long par-4 for these guys, but they still are going for the green in two and it still plays more as a par-4 than a par-5.

[kro88]

Anyone know if the stream of the first 18 sunday is available anywhere to replay? I couldn't stream it but am really interested in seeing the play on #4

 

 

[thevaporz]

Enough jacking about driver distance, this Augenstein kid is slower than DeChambeau around the greens. Ridiculously slow, it was irritating to watch this drivel. Congrats to Ogletree.