What is the one rule you wish could be changed

[LICC]

Purpose of Rule: Rule 17 is a specific Rule for penalty areas, which are bodies of water or other areas defined by the Committee where a ball is often lost or unable to be played.

The rules acknowledge penalty areas are what they are because they are areas where a ball is likely gone or unplayable. Like situations should be treated alike.

[LICC]

[Vindog]

Yeah it's not that hard to grasp. The longer you are here, the less you pollute the other subforums on this site, so there's the silver lining.

[sui generis]

How did your telephone call to the USGA Rules desk go?

[Mr. Bean]

I know that this is pissing in the wind but what if you thought it this way:

A part of a course that has been declared as OB when a certain hole is being played is not part of that course when playing that particular hole. Because this is what it means. As many have already wrote (and you have fluently disregarded what they have been explaining to you) that part of the course is no longer part of the course as that part is not one of the five parts of a golf course.

So, before you quote the text saying 'a part of a course that have been declared as internal OB' again do understand the time line of that statement. The part of the course declared as being OB is no longer part of that course but it WAS part of that course before the declaring of OB took place.

I can understand that you must be struggling in understanding this let alone accepting it but do give it a try. I bet you will get less laughs from your mates if you accept what is correct instead of those silly attempts trying to persuade us and the Ruling Bodies that you are right and the rest of us wrong in this particular matter.

[Mr. Bean]

I believe post #1412 is the best ever from LICC. No mistakes whatsoever!

[DaveLeeNC]

First of all 'likely to be unplayable' (using your definition of unplayable) definitely is not an accurate description of all PA's. In many cases not even close.

But even if we grant this incorrect assertion, 'likely to be unplayable' is hardly the same thing as 'play is prohibited'. These are not 'like situations' in the general case. And the fact that 'bottom of a pond' truly cannot be played is not a useful argument because there are many locations inside PA's that are not at the bottom of a pond (including the very same place in a drier season in some cases) and are quite playable by any reasonable standard.

You stated "The rules acknowledge penalty areas are what they are because they are areas where a ball is likely gone or unplayable." While not a complete description it is correct. Another aspect of having different rules in PA's is to ALLOW people to play from those areas if they so choose. This creates a HUGE difference between OB and PA areas where play from OB is prohibited in all cases.

dave

 

[Vindog]

It's fine that a ball unplayble in abnormal ground condition or embedded is treated differently than that in a PA, because of definitions

But not fine that a ball unplayable in a PA is different than a ball hit OB, because of definitions.

 

Yet we are illogical.

[Sawgrass]

So here is a question for you. Your ball is on the left side of a wide paved cart path, and directly off the edge of the left side of that cart path is an internal out of bounds line. The closest point freeing your stance and lie from the cart path is on the "wrong" side of the internal out of bounds line. If you choose to take free 16.1b relief from the immovable obstruction of the path, do you drop at that closest point off the left side, or on the right side of the path which is in bounds? And if you drop across the path on the right side, why didn't you use the nearer point?

Here's a hint on the proper play from the definition of Course:

CourseThe entire area of play within the edge of any boundaries set by the Committee:

All areas inside the boundary edge are in bounds and part of the courseAll areas outside the boundary edge are out of bounds and not part of the course

 

 

[Halebopp]

Stay safe! The footage from people trapped on the beaches seeking refuge are terrible, pictures of animals fleeing and being caught in barbed-wire fences etc. are simply horrifying. Hopefully the volunteer fire fighters do get all the help they desperately need and deserve and the weather will come to your aid sooner rather than later.

[Halebopp]

Has anyone mentioned the language used when prohibiting free relief from abnormal course conditions, "No Relief When Clearly Unreasonable to Play Ball." and asked why they wouldn't have used the same words to define an unplayable ball if that's what the RBs would've wanted? "Relief When Clearly Unreasonable to Play Ball"

 

 

[Newby]

LICC

I don't think I have seen a response to my post suggesting that balls OB and in a PA should treated differently.

Perhaps you might now.Why are parking regulations not the same for the highway and a car park (parking lot)? Why are the rules for teeing areas, bunkers and dropping zones not the same?Perhaps it's because they are not the same.

You also seem to have ignored my proposition that the RBs follow the legal principle of generalia specialibus non derogant when comparing Rule 19 with 1.2

[davep043]

So a ball an inch off the green should be treated the same as a ball an inch on the green? The shot you're likely to hit is identical.

[LICC]

Show me a picture of this course that has internal OB directly on the edge of a cart path. Or are you resorting to non-existent courses to support your argument?

[Newby]

Does it make any difference to the logic?

[LICC]

Has anyone asked why they would put the word “unplayable” in the rule if the playability of the ball has zero relevance to taking the relief?

[CaseyC]

Not photos, but examples,

andhttp://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthread.php?36605-Cart-Path-Out-of-Bounds

[LICC]

I thought your earlier post was great. I’m going to write a longer response I just haven’t had the time yet

[davep043]

You don't need a long answer to this one. Yes or no, two balls, a few inches apart, they should be treated the same according to your logic.

[LICC]

The green is the area specially prepared for putting. It’s edge is where the specially prepared area starts. As this part of the course is specially prepared to use a putter, it is by definition not similar to the course on the other side of the edge that is not specially prepared to use a putter. Now, you can use a putter off the green, but that part of the course is not “specially” prepared for such use, and thus the distinction is a significant difference between the two playing areas that justifies different rule treatment

[Halebopp]

I'm sure all of those who have issues with the chosen wordings in the rules are capable of asking such questions themselves but can't see a reason why anyone without such issues would bother.

[LICC]

Those are OB fence obstruction questions. That’s a different rule issue that @davep043 raised earlier. I’m fine changing the rule to allow relief from an OB fence obstruction.

[davep043]

But your opportunity to play the stroke is the same, the stroke itself is the same, they should be treated the same. that's simple logic.

"Like situations should be treated alike."

These two situations aren't just alike, they're damn near identical. The only thing that differentiates hose two balls is the definition of the two areas, the Putting Green and the General Area. The only reason to treat those two balls differently comes when we accept the authority of the Ruling Bodies to define different areas, and to make different rules for each different area.

[Mr. Bean]

I would do it but I have no idea how to paste Google Map here. It is a course in southern part of Finland and there is a road crossing the course. That road is defined Out of Bounds as well as all terrain beyond the road regardless from which side you are playing. In essence, any ball crossing the road is OB. An extremely internal OB, I would say.

And yes, the OB line is on the edge of the road on both sides.

[davep043]

What I'm getting from this is that the ONLY differentiation you want to change is that surrounding OB. And that seems to be because you don't like the severe consequences associated with OB. Golf is just too tough, we should make it easier. Unless, of course, you're in a difficult spot, then we should make it as hard as possible.

[KevCarter]

Fences defining Out of Bounds are obstructions? Are you going by Merriam-Webster instead of the ROG again?

[LICC]

If you want an honest application of golf rules why wouldn’t you have a issue with the playability of a ball having zero relevance to taking “unplayable ball” relief?

[DaveLeeNC]

Just curious. Is there now agreement that being OB is not 'like' (as in to be treated the same) as being in a PA? I can't tell.

Thx.

dave

[LICC]

The stroke isn’t the same. Some players only use putter on the green. The ball will come off the putter differently off the green compared to on the green, as the green is specially prepared for using the putter.

[LICC]

If you want a rule allowing you to mark and lift a ball around the green in areas cut to fairway height or less, if you use putter on the next shot, ok with me.