What is the one rule you wish could be changed

[Mr. Bean]

I do have to say that this argument over whether there is an argument going on over a conundrum that does not exists or does exist is probably one of the weirdest discussions in the WRX history. Which, of course is no wonder considering the other party of this non-argument of an argument...

[Halebopp]

 

[Londoner]

Well you COULD argue that. I can't see the logic in it though. Its arguably an argument. No argument from me on that front.

[nsxguy]

That's pretty funny. I thought he was talking about ME !!! LMAO

Ahhhhh, the PA vs. OB argument.

See post 1241 where I recap the arguments and which he suggests is "impressive" (so I guess it's "logical" to assume he agrees with the post)."And he calls the options for relief from a Penalty Area and hitting the ball OB "illogical" because they appear so similar,,,,,,,,, even though 1 is ON the course and the other is OFF the course, a rather important difference I think."

So apparently he thinks the penalties for a Penalty Area and OB should be the SAME because they are SIMILAR situations. Doesn't sound so "logical" to me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anyway LICC, I'm sorry. I don't remember the whole thread or your reasoning behind this.

 

So why should a Penalty Area ON the course be treated the same as a ball hit OFF the course again ? (Asking for a friend)

TIA

[LICC]

Hi @nsxguy - no I wasn’t referring to you. You don’t seem to post immature offensive stuff.
I think your concise summary was impressive but that doesn’t mean I agree with all of it.
If a ball is not able to be played, whether because it is OB or in the bottom of a pond, the penalty treatment should be the same because as far as playing your next shot goes, the result is the same

[nsxguy]

What did I get wrong (in the summary) ? I would have thought you'd correct it.

But what about in the Penalty Area where one CAN play it ? NOW you have a situation where you CAN play the ball in a PA. You CAN'T hit the ball under any circumstance if it's OB.

And you make NO reasonable argument for WHY a ball ON the course would be treated the same as a ball OFF the course. Like I said that is quite a difference whether you think so or not.

[Londoner]

Who said you can't play a ball at the bottom of a pond?

[sui generis]

The difference between R17 and R18 is the location of the ball. The area of the course (see Defs for five defined areas of the course) or a non-area of the course ie OB determines the Rule to be applied. R17 and R18 are not R19.

[Mr. Bean]

The way I see it is that LICC is well out of arguments against mine so he uses his every effort to avoid responding my posts that make all his arguments completely null and void. That is a real shame because this forum is all about learning the Rules and LICC refuses to learn, a common feature in children but more seldom found in adults. Well, exceptions exist...

[LICC]

I just did explain it. From the standpoint of playing your next golf shot, the result is exactly the same. So no, logically, your on course/off course distinction is not any difference of significance.

[nsxguy]

So you believe and base your logic on the "standpoint of playing your next shot" overrides whether the ball is ON the course or OFF of it.

OK.

[LICC]

You are the one saying off the course vs on does make a difference, so the onus is on you to provide a reasonable argument why that is so. Thus far no one has been able to do so. And when you try to make that argument, please cover internal OB because that is not, as you know, off the course.

[KevCarter]

Do we know he's an adult?

[Newby]

please cover internal OB because that is not, as you know, off the course.

OK , I'll bite. If it is on the course, which defined area is it in?

Or are you suggesting that 'off' does not mean 'not on'?

[LICC]

Do you think that internal OB is off the golf course property?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

OK here's one I thought of that might work--- any time a ball can't be played; OB, Hazard of any kind, lost in woods, shrubs, high grass, drainage culvert, pipe or whatever--- with penalty strokes, the player would be able to walk back toward the last shot and drop anywhere along the ball flight no closer to the pin. For shots that overshot or were next to the green and lost in the same listed previously, the player again could drop anywhere on the line of flight of the last shot, so long as the ball was not dropped closer to the pin to where the ball was believed to be and also the ball could not be dropped on the green.

[Sawgrass]

LICC: "You are the one saying off the course vs on does make a difference, so the onus is on you to provide a reasonable argument why that is so. Thus far no one has been able to do so."

Many people have made a reasonable argument why this is so, but you have not been able to accept their view as being reasonable because you're unreasonable.

That's a hopeless circle, but if you'd really like the relief from a PA and OB to be the same, the rules allow you to play your ball that way -- just select the S&D option. The rest of us will decide whether we wish to pick a different option for yellow and red PAs, as the rules grant us that right based on their (for-the-rest-of-us-easily-accepted) determination that "off the course" and "on the course" makes a difference.

[Vindog]

You are prohibited from playing from out of bounds this is due to the virtue of it generally it being off the property of the course, but not always. While I absolutely hate in course OB, it stands to reason that a course would mark a certain area as OB to prevent play from there. And since the penalty for hitting it OB is so severe (more severe than just a PA) it would hopefully deter players from even thinking of playing in that direction.

 

Thanks for playing!

[rogolf]

Property lines are somewhat irrelevant when defining the course. It is fully legitimate to mark areas within the legal boundaries of the course as out of bounds, for example, for clubhouses, maintenance areas, parking lots, practice areas. "Out of bounds" is what the Committee decides it to be.

[nsxguy]

You are the one saying 2 SIMILAR situations should be treated the SAME. Your argument ? Because you think so.

To me, the difference between on the course and off the course is so obvious, and therefore so reasonable to be treated differently, as to not need explanation.

Anyway, I've had enough of your circular arguments and you're not going to get ME to run around and chase my tail.

Enjoy your weekend.

[LICC]

No, they really haven’t made that argument. They basically just keep repeating “Because it’s off the course!”

[LICC]

But internal OB is not off the course! You keep saying “It’s off the course!” is the big reason for different penalties, without any actual reason why that matters.

[LICC]

Do you think that internal OB is not property on the golf course?

[Vindog]

Quote me where I said that internal OB is off the course.

[LICC]

When someone says something is obvious and doesn’t need an explanation, that means they have nothing reasonable or factual to say and they lost the argument.

[LICC]

You keep saying the justification for the illogical difference in penalties is that OB is “off the course!” But you can’t explain why that makes a difference and you can’t square it with internal OB

[sui generis]

Internal OB is "off the golf course". While it may still be club property it is nonetheless off the golf course. The Committee has the duty and thus the right to define the golf course.

[Vindog]

I cleared everything up in one paragraph. Thanks for playing!

[rogolf]

"off the golf course" is a phrase commonly used in place of "out of bounds". The golf course is defined by the Committee in charge of the course or competition, and any ball not within that defined golf course is out of bounds, or, in more common terms, "off the course".

[Newby]

The course is defined as having five areas. In which area is internal out of bounds?