Has Anyone Ever Come Across A Moe Student Or Graves Golf Academy Pupil?

[Feelingofgreatness]

I've been swinging the Graves/Moe way since September. I was a 10-11 HC and now I'm a 6. Also, shot my lowest round ever, +4 76 and +2 74 at a really difficult course. Best swing in golf IMO. I'm happy to answer any questions. I carry my Driver about 260, 7 iron 168, 5 iron 192.

I played the last 6 rounds of the year with the same TM TPX5, hit the flag multiple times and went on a streak of 5 birdies in 10 holes. The swing is relatively easy to learn. I could probably teach it to someone that already plays golf on 3-4 twenty to thirty minute lessons. Broomstick pivot point drill is key as is the turning into flexed lead knee drill with your feed down. I think will will get to scratch in 2021.

[Jumpman1231]

On 1/17/2021 at 10:15 PM, SEP1006 said:

 

Are you more of a DeChambeau or Todd Graves swing?

So Bryson initially sent me down the single plane path but after watching different things I felt like moe was gonna be the best path and Todd graves was the closest thing I could find to moe. I also really enjoyed his information and format for videos. So I’ve gone Todd graves route to build out my fundamental single plane swing. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Jumpman1231

[Jumpman1231]

16 hours ago, tm3 said:

 

I'm curious what you used to teach yourself ......

I’ve watched all of his videos on his site as well as his schools single plane site. Then it’s been hitting a lot on the range and playing a good amount of golf. I fundamentally started working on it piece by piece in his sequential order. So initially it took a decent amount of discipline to go step by step to just get the setup right but for me I wanted to learn things properly each step and not kinda get something and move on and risk developing bad habits. I also frequently video myself along the way bc it’s pretty often that my body and mind think and feel I’m doing one thing but the video shows I’m doing something else. So it’s still a work in progress to build the proper machine but I’m much closer to where I want to be and I’m now doing much more detailed tweaks then when I first started. 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Jumpman1231

[CB67]

7 hours ago, SwingBlues said:

@CB67 nice! been mulling his single plane trainer. But I got a 5 foot PVC pipe that I am using instead. I figured that If it's good enough for Todd when he was with Moe, it should be good enough for me... 😜

 

ps get that ball on the 6ft back and 1 foot in to make sure at the top, that end of the trainer is pointed to it. It will solve A LOT of problems later on.

 

 

 

Yes sir I always make sure the markers are in place and follow his drills and positions.

 

 

https://moenormangolf.com/support/single-plane-position-trainer/
 

[SEP1006]

6 hours ago, Jumpman1231 said:

So Bryson initially sent me down the single plane path but after watching different things I felt like moe was gonna be the best path and Todd graves was the closest thing I could find to moe. I also really enjoyed his information and format for videos. So I’ve gone Todd graves route to build out my fundamental single plane swing. 

 

Funny, that's exactly what I did. Did there Bryson swing with pretty good success for probably a year or so. Problem is there isn't much detail or in depth teachings on his swing anywhere. So when I was off for any period of time I had to figure it out myself by watching his swing videos.

 

While searching for that I came across Todd Graves' websites and started learning / following his swing methods. Watched everything I could on him on You Tube and did buy the book as well. Pretty consistent with it now.

 

Only thing that gives me trouble from time to time is the driver. Staying centered over the bent left knee and going through instead of rotating up is harder for me with the driver for some reason. Probably because my body is furthest from the ball. But man when I get it right I can easily shoot mid 70's all day long. And the best thing is that when I'm off it doesn't kill me. Can still shoot 78 - 82 consistency.

 

 

 

 

[tm3]

When you all refer to "the book" is this the one you are talking about

 

https://members.singleplaneacademy.com/the-single-plane-golf-swing-book/

[SEP1006]

5 minutes ago, tm3 said:

When you all refer to "the book" is this the one you are talking about

 

https://members.singleplaneacademy.com/the-single-plane-golf-swing-book/

 

Yes, that's the one I have.

[tm3]

13 minutes ago, SEP1006 said:

 

Yes, that's the one I have.

Thanks!  I'm doing some indoor work on my swing during winter and after reading this thread am tempted to try single plane again as intuitively it seems worthwhile, but as I i noted earlier it sure didn't click for me last time.

 

Maybe I'll take a look at the book as a start.

[SEP1006]

14 minutes ago, tm3 said:

Thanks!  I'm doing some indoor work on my swing during winter and after reading this thread am tempted to try single plane again as intuitively it seems worthwhile, but as I i noted earlier it sure didn't click for me last time.

 

Maybe I'll take a look at the book as a start.

 

The 1-plane swing didn't make me drastically better as I would hover around 8 - 12 handicap. What it did for me is make me WAY MORE consistent. My bad shots aren't near as bad and I very rarely have any penalty strokes now. Handicap hovers between 5 - 8 now.

[SwingBlues]

1 hour ago, tm3 said:

Thanks!  I'm doing some indoor work on my swing during winter and after reading this thread am tempted to try single plane again as intuitively it seems worthwhile, but as I i noted earlier it sure didn't click for me last time.

 

Maybe I'll take a look at the book as a start.

 

 

Go through these videos from Todd first. It's his "Rethink" series and then get the Book after. Personally the videos are better because you see the motion versus static photographs.

 

Rethink The Golf Swing Consistency with The Single Plane Golf Swing

 

Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb3fOJxTlG0&t=1103s

 

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7lqQFTMbdA?list=PLeUCXkZVONv2yUPBEORuUdw9AT7nTqrOO

 

Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WfazhRmX4g

 

Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDaP0iu0xyo

 

Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGNOyofSAWA

 

Part 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6glrRKLyGQ

 

Optional Part 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-qQEH7gNoU?list=RDCMUCPZjos4CEycshEQ2VjB1ncg

 

[tm3]

1 hour ago, SEP1006 said:

 

The 1-plane swing didn't make me drastically better as I would hover around 8 - 12 handicap. What it did for me is make me WAY MORE consistent. My bad shots aren't near as bad and I very rarely have any penalty strokes now. Handicap hovers between 5 - 8 now.

 

Thanks!  Consistency, or rather lack thereof, is what killed me this last year.

 

17 minutes ago, SwingBlues said:

 

 

Go through these videos from Todd first. It's his "Rethink" series and then get the Book after. Personally the videos are better because you see the motion versus static photographs.

 

Rethink The Golf Swing Consistency with The Single Plane Golf Swing

 

Part 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb3fOJxTlG0&t=1103s

 

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7lqQFTMbdA?list=PLeUCXkZVONv2yUPBEORuUdw9AT7nTqrOO

 

Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WfazhRmX4g

 

Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDaP0iu0xyo

 

Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGNOyofSAWA

 

Part 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6glrRKLyGQ

 

Optional Part 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-qQEH7gNoU?list=RDCMUCPZjos4CEycshEQ2VjB1ncg

 

 

That is great!  Thank you for taking the time to put that list together!

[vinprun71]

I dabbled with this swing myself previously then went back to playing conventionally. Had a good ball striking season in 2020 then got a lesson that threw me all off track. Since then, my scores have been all over the place. The conventional swing just feels too complicated to me. I started watching Todd's videos again on YT and reading his book again (which I bought a while back). A couple of weeks ago I signed up for the silver membership. The 27 bucks a month is a good investment. Once I got that, the YT videos and book started to click further and my scores began dropping.

 

Am I doing it 100% perfect? Probably not. Going to a school and/or submitting my swing to a Graves coach via the gold membership would probably straighten that out. For now, I'm happy with the improvements that are coming along. I'm still early in my journey with it, but the simplification of the golf swing through Todd's teaching and following the Moe Norman model makes more sense to me. I'm a very analytical person and the conventional swing was just mentally draining to me. This model is something I can follow a lot easier. If something goes wrong, I know I can diagnose it with a few simple check points that are the fundamentals of the model.

[SwingBlues]

One of the really important part of this swing is the ball & stance position. There is, basically, 2 main ball position - driver (Driver Ball Position DBP) and iron ball position (IBP). Fairway wood is inbetween both.

 

What moves more is your stance width and that controls your trajectory. Your lead foot remains the same and everything is relative to your lead foot instep/heel position.

 

The wider the stance the higher (driver), the shorter the stance the lower (irons). Ball position stays SAME. In some of Todd's latest videos like his playing ones, he actually moves his stance slightly closer with the driver to allow him to hit it lower into the wind but his ball position does not change. I recall way, way, way before I even heard of One Plane that consistent ball position and changing stance width was one way to control trajectory but it was never explained in detailed till I found Todd/Moe's teaching.

 

 

To help you guys without a Todd's Alignment and Ball Position Trainer (ABT trainer) here are some pictures. When I started my One Plane journey with Todd back in July, I did not have his ABT so I just use a regular Joe alignment stick and just marked off 6 inches from the end and that's my IBP.

 

However, I bought my ABT just because I was missing out on the other nuances of the irons. ABT goes between $60 to $100 depending on if you sign up for his membership or not. Is it worth it - depends on how you view this swing. You can start like I did with a simple stick and guess the width or invest in his ABT. Up to you...

 

 

There is also a Short Game / Chipping/Pitching alignment board as well but I'll leave that out for now. That one is easy to figure out and I have had a lot of success with Tim's one plane short game teachings.

 

Hope this helps guys

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by SwingBlues

[Jumpman1231]

10 hours ago, SEP1006 said:

 

Funny, that's exactly what I did. Did there Bryson swing with pretty good success for probably a year or so. Problem is there isn't much detail or in depth teachings on his swing anywhere. So when I was off for any period of time I had to figure it out myself by watching his swing videos.

 

While searching for that I came across Todd Graves' websites and started learning / following his swing methods. Watched everything I could on him on You Tube and did buy the book as well. Pretty consistent with it now.

 

Only thing that gives me trouble from time to time is the driver. Staying centered over the bent left knee and going through instead of rotating up is harder for me with the driver for some reason. Probably because my body is furthest from the ball. But man when I get it right I can easily shoot mid 70's all day long. And the best thing is that when I'm off it doesn't kill me. Can still shoot 78 - 82 consistency.

 

 

 

 

Yeah I find I’ve got consistent with the driver but where I’m still working on is reconciling the Bryson major swing with the  built in constraints of graves... We play in a 2 man scramble league and I swing second off the tee box so I’m trying to learn how to get more out of the driver when my partner gets his in. I think I’m a couple range sessions away from finding the fine line where they come together. At least that’s what I tell myself ha. Mentally I know I really don’t need to hit more then 280 on average but knowing I could hit it 300+ sure is tempting to do to much with it ha.

[CB67]

 

[A.Princey]

I would say that I've sorta adopted a Moe-like swing, not by choice but more so trial and error of easiest repeatable contact I could create, and in effort to take away my left miss.  I couple his setup, with the Faldo, preset drill for my takeaway/backswing, and voila, my full swing is ready to go. I will still swing from behind the ball on occasion, but only on partial shots/chips, and when try to work the ball a particular direction.

[SwingBlues]

I actually came across another Graves student today. He was at the Golf Development Complex down in Moorpark. That is a pretty nice range. Seems like he was hitting the ball good on occasions - hell, not mean in that in a bad sense as it's why we are all at the range. However, it was very interesting to watch him. Ball flights look good. Occasional one goes right. Occasional one get topped especially his fairway wood.

 

How did I know he was a Graves guy? He had the ABT. In the end I didn't get a chance to talk with him. Would have been interesting I guess. But oh well, there you go, I did "come across" another Graves student 😉

Edited January 23, 2021 by SwingBlues

[CB67]

 

Kelly Murray Canadian golfer who spent time learning from Moe and long drive champ in his division. Check out this swing. 
 

Blue print single plane swing with the flexed lead knee and rear foot down / in at impact 

[SwingBlues]

Great video. Only differences is the setup (back view) is more conventional than the Graves version where the legs are more straight and in the backswing he goes underneath the plane (fairly flat by the looks of things) and stays under until impact. Very interesting and great contrast to say BDC

 

Looking at this, one of the hard things to re-wire from the old swing to Graves, is the setup with the straight knees & bent at the hips but if this guy can still power it with the more conventional-like posture, got me thinking...

Edited January 23, 2021 by SwingBlues

[CB67]

I feel like the area for wiggle room for Me in this swing is the knee flex in the set up also. I’m not completely locked out , I do have knee flex , not much but more than Moe.   
 

Things like height , flexibility , femur length etc play a role you would think. 
 

Then you have that impact zone. Lead knee flexed and rear foot planted keeping everything online. Lead knee flex and trail foot down causes an efficient limitation of the pelvis and that’s as far as you can go. Not as near the potential to spin out or over rotate like you can when lead knee straightens and the trail foot goes up onto the toes. ( Hello early extension ) 

 

The lead knee flex and trail foot down through the impact zone also acts as the braking system in the swing which then propels the shoulders , arms and hands to sling through and release down that target line.  I feel like my club face stays square so

much longer through the impact zone ( slap shot like ) and I feel like my trail hand doesn’t roll over top of my lead hand until up near my lead shoulder / ear. This is obviously a “feel”. 
 

That lead knee and trail foot action is such a game changer. 
 

 

 

[SwingBlues]

@CB67 you will like this 😁

 

Todd's latest... focus on the braking system and stability to fire the upper body. Probably one of his best free YouTube videos. His Membership stuff is very detailed as well but this is more professionally shot and produced especially the inset portion.

 

The key note is probably about mid way - downswing, step into the lead foot, maintain the body tilt to reduce the variabilities. Enjoy

 

 

 

 

[CB67]

8 hours ago, SwingBlues said:

@CB67 you will like this 😁

 

Todd's latest... focus on the braking system and stability to fire the upper body. Probably one of his best free YouTube videos. His Membership stuff is very detailed as well but this is more professionally shot and produced especially the inset portion.

 

The key note is probably about mid way - downswing, step into the lead foot, maintain the body tilt to reduce the variabilities. Enjoy

 

 

 

 

Yes sir I’m subscribed to Todd and watched this 4 minutes after he posted it haha thank you for the heads up I appreciate it! 
 

This is the staple of the swing and I’ve drilled this so much in the past 5 months that I don’t think I can physically lift my trail heel and straighten my lead leg now if I tried. Love that this is becoming ingrained.  
 

 

[tm3]

Interesting.  This is only the 2nd instructor that I have heard emphasize the importance of the braking or stability of the left side going into impact.

[SwingBlues]

7 hours ago, CB67 said:

Yes sir I’m subscribed to Todd and watched this 4 minutes after he posted it haha thank you for the heads up I appreciate it! 
 

This is the staple of the swing and I’ve drilled this so much in the past 5 months that I don’t think I can physically lift my trail heel and straighten my lead leg now if I tried. Love that this is becoming ingrained. 

 

👍 were you ever subscribed to his Gold program? Mine is still a work in-progress. I have many years of memories I need to re-program but it's getting there. Plus I am nursing a bad left hip/lower back issue at the moment which does not help the cause...

 

 

[CB67]

1 hour ago, SwingBlues said:

 

👍 were you ever subscribed to his Gold program? Mine is still a work in-progress. I have many years of memories I need to re-program but it's getting there. Plus I am nursing a bad left hip/lower back issue at the moment which does not help the cause...

 

 

I haven’t subscribed to the Gold program yet.  To be honest I’ve been striking the ball so well and finding the stuff on his channel plus his single plane trainer and training videos on that so thoroughly detailed that I just stuck with that for now. I’ve been also using video to make sure I’m hitting my positions. 

I plan to work at this swing for the long haul though so I’ll leave no stone unturned. I shot a 1 over 73 last year and played some good golf before finding Moe , Todd and the single plane but I still didn’t like the consistency issues I has having and found the early extension I had so hard to improve.

 

Everything about the single plane swing  just takes the early extension and timing problems out of it for me and I’m hoping this gets me under par next season. 
 

Lifting the my trail heel and straightening my lead knee / leg was a death move (for me.) Especially with the driver. I could never do it consistently for long. 
 

Trail foot down / rolled and lead knee flexed into the breaking system at impact gives me limitations to what I can do with my pelvis and I just feel like I’m taking a slap shot instead of a traditional golf swing. That plus the tilt and address just keeps everything so repeatable for me. Granted this was not a quick fix for me by any means. There was a few months of doing the drills every single day multiple times a day plus I went 3 months without even striking a golf ball. 
 

I had to repeat the proper drills and positions over and over ad nauseam to get the feeling to become natural like it’s becoming now. 
 

[ChaosTheory]

Kelly Murray once shot a 60 which was 30 shots and 30 putts. 

[SwingBlues]

On 1/27/2021 at 11:55 AM, CB67 said:

Trail foot down / rolled and lead knee flexed into the breaking system at impact gives me limitations to what I can do with my pelvis and I just feel like I’m taking a slap shot instead of a traditional golf swing. That plus the tilt and address just keeps everything so repeatable for me. Granted this was not a quick fix for me by any means. There was a few months of doing the drills every single day multiple times a day plus I went 3 months without even striking a golf ball. 
 

I had to repeat the proper drills and positions over and over ad nauseam to get the feeling to become natural like it’s becoming now. 
 

 

👍 That's dedication if you can pull yourself off the course and range for 3 straight months. Per Todd. Me, I would go NUTZ. I need to hit balls, walk and play it my stress relief from my WFH.

 

However, if I think about this, if I was learning the Grave swing during the 5 month lockdown here in SoCal, I could live with that. But I didn't start down the path of the Graves swing until June when golf was opened up.

 

My take, I think, playing helps me figure out what I got down and what isn't quite down. I definitely learnt a lot out there and my scores are the best I have ever played, 4 times shooting under Par when the last 10 years I barely shot a couple of par rounds in a year. I still do some home drills but not as much as you do.

 

I only signed up with the Gold Membership for 2 months. I just needed access to his detailed programs and chat with his coaches. I would go back but money is tight right now. Anyway, I got enough out of the Gold Program and I still have a ton of material I need to ingest.

 

So if you are playing good, no questions and it all looks good like Moe on camera, yeah, you don't need the Gold Program. I do have to say, for what you pay in the Gold Program, I think it's quite a deal especially if you are new and the type of person who needs guidance. Now, I do miss their monthly webinar which was fun and I actually got to ask Todd some questions...

Edited January 29, 2021 by SwingBlues

[tm3]

I've got a question.  I've been watching the Graves videos and experimenting some with the setup.  Graves' reasoning for the mechanics sounds plausible.  I also looked at Junge's www site and found an hour long video of him going through a step by step process for his swing.  Junge's reasoning also sounds plausible, and a number of his points differ from Graves -- for example, Junge has the lead knee straightening at impact while Graves has it flexing.  Junge's swing is more like the conventional swing so it might be easier to pick up; OTOH, the fact that Graves' swing is so different may be its strength.

 

Obviously I'm debating which one to try to go farther with.  Any thoughts?

[SwingBlues]

1 hour ago, tm3 said:

I've got a question.  I've been watching the Graves videos and experimenting some with the setup.  Graves' reasoning for the mechanics sounds plausible.  I also looked at Junge's www site and found an hour long video of him going through a step by step process for his swing.  Junge's reasoning also sounds plausible, and a number of his points differ from Graves -- for example, Junge has the lead knee straightening at impact while Graves has it flexing.  Junge's swing is more like the conventional swing so it might be easier to pick up; OTOH, the fact that Graves' swing is so different may be its strength.

 

Obviously I'm debating which one to try to go farther with.  Any thoughts?

 

Junge use to instruct under Todd but his main "philosophical" is the use of the lower body. I have seen posts by others who have had success under Junge. By here's my take...

 

I was at the same decision/question as you in regards to Junge vs Todd. Junge didn't invent the one plane Moe Norman swing. It was Moe. Captain Obvious. Todd, through many years, learnt from Moe and his swing is the most closest to Moe. He use to be called Mini Moe. Todd's model of Moe is pretty rigid, even the ABT (his trainer to ball position, stance and alignment) is only one size regardless of the height of a person. He is conveying what he's learnt from Moe and Moe is Todd's model.

 

In regards to Junge, he use to instruct under Todd but he believes the lower model needs to move and more active. So I'll bring in Bryson now. One of the longest one plane swingers, US Major champion. Bryson is not a Moe Norman swing - lets just be clear here. However, I did ask Todd in a webinar about his thoughts of the stability of the bent left knee and trail foot vs BDC. My understanding of his answer was that it was not safe from the POV of us, you and me, swinging that hard with no stability but if BDC can make it work that's him but he would not recommend you and me swinging that fast and having such active lower body. Todd has always been about stability at impact.

 

One of the reasons I came to the one plane swing is my lack of spacing. That is, at the moment of impact, what is your space like? For many years I played good with good hands and good sequence, I can get away with murder. However, it came to a point my spacing was effecting my back. I had the typical active body and non-active hip so at impact, my body is going up onto my toes like I am almost standing up and my club plane is so vertical. Ala Justin Thomas like. Another tidbit, I always struck my best when my trail foot was "rolling" into impact. As well my video shows I was one plane at impact (though vertical) - it just made sense to improve my golf by heading into one plane.

 

So I looked at Junge and I looked at Todd and I chose Todd. #1 Todd is the closest to Moe. Look at Moe, he's not the most athletic guy in the world but he has STABILITY at impact he figured out how to move his body and he hits it HARD and pure. As Todd says, if Moe can do it, so can I. As did Todd. Looks like @CB67 as well (sorry to drop your name).

 

I think the hardest part for me is to get stability in the lower body. 20+ years of golf is not going to be instantly erased and reprogrammed in 5 months. Todd believes anyone who starts his swing needs to work on the body drills for 3 months to retune it - thats the conversation that CB67 and I were having earlier. Me, I cannot do that unless you lock me down.

 

At the end of the day, what are your reasons for changing and that may dictate who you change with. It never hurts to review both and make up your own mind. Neither one is bad, imho

 

Look at it this way, it's just different way to cook a steak at the end of the day but you'll enjoy that steak at the end regardless 👍

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, tm3 said:

I've got a question.  I've been watching the Graves videos and experimenting some with the setup.  Graves' reasoning for the mechanics sounds plausible.  I also looked at Junge's www site and found an hour long video of him going through a step by step process for his swing.  Junge's reasoning also sounds plausible, and a number of his points differ from Graves -- for example, Junge has the lead knee straightening at impact while Graves has it flexing.  Junge's swing is more like the conventional swing so it might be easier to pick up; OTOH, the fact that Graves' swing is so different may be its strength.

 

Obviously I'm debating which one to try to go farther with.  Any thoughts?

Your post brings back some memories.  We had:

Ideal Mechanical Advantage by Scott Hazledine

Big Grip Golf by Tom Sanders

The Heard Super Swing (video available on youtube)

The latest greatest scientific swing by Jack Kuykendal

Simple Swing 

 

There is a ton of discussion on these swings and more on the old single axis golf swing forum:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/sagfmoderator/single-axis-golf-forum-f72052/

 

I have tried all of them some in more detail then others and I am currently using something similar to the Jim Venetos method which is a lot simpler and easier to learn then any of the single axis swings imho lol.