Has Anyone Ever Come Across A Moe Student Or Graves Golf Academy Pupil?

[SwingBlues]

4 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

My ABT arrived so now I can really start working on my swing since I have a consistent way to make sure my stance and ball position is correct.  All the chipping I have done in the last couple weeks has made the overlap grip more natural. 

 

Make sure your right foot follows the shape of the ABT. PW-7 is neutral and then as your club gets longer, the ABT shows a slight closing of the right feet. Iron balls are set to "IBP", driver set to DBP. Fairway wood is inbetween. Also I have not idea about your height so if you are tall, you foot position may be at the end of the "ranges" (aka the bands)

Enjoy, & good buy 👍

[SwingBlues]

On 5/2/2021 at 8:08 PM, Quasimoto said:

I knew a Moe taught junior some years ago, although he was close to 40 at that time. Really accurate driver, very long for the day, was a solid 2 hdcp. Had the exact stance and swing as Moe, and he was about the same stature as Moe so it was probably easier for him to assimilate the swing.

Notable is that he, unlike Moe, chased distance. I think it held him back.

 

That's pretty rare to find a Moe coached student, as Moe was pretty shy. Was the kid from the same town as Moe? How did that happen?

 

Yeah, the fascinating thing about this swing is the perceived lack of distance. Todd addresses it in his last video and I have asked Todd to explain DeChambeau's one plane swing especially his lower body movement (I didn't say it but to me, BDC seems more like Junge's). Back then Todd's resposne, he did not recommend it as the basis of his swing was lower body stability and accuracy over pure distance.

 

As well, BDC address the ball middle of face, while Gaves address the ball at the heel. BDC has the left leg straightening up BUT if you watch his videos, he is very stable into a flex knee at impact but because he turns so hard, it looks like his left leg straightens like a regular 2 plane swing. Its really fascinating.

 

 

[SEP1006]

On 5/2/2021 at 9:56 PM, SwingBlues said:

This just goes to prove the One Plane swing is not 100% idiot proof. Like the other swings, it needs sequence, timing and right path into the ball. If anything, I would categorize this as a negative "A-ha" moment. I can't recall ever having go through these bad long wood swings. Ever. Also, if there was time for a Nicklaus short memory, it was that round.

 

 

SwingBlues - you are so right when saying this, it is not idiot proof. I myself have gone through exactly what you just posted more than once since transitioning to the Grave's method. Even to the point where I've contemplated going back to my old swing a few times. But I remember why I changed and get back on path. I do still think this is the easiest ( probably not the right word ) and most consistent swing method FOR ME. Even though I still have them my "bad holes" are getting further apart. So this is why I am committed to this swing.

[NJBigFish22]

6 hours ago, SwingBlues said:

 

As well, BDC address the ball middle of face, while Gaves address the ball at the heel.

 

 

@SwingBlues This is an interesting statement to me, so your saying that at address the ball is actually closer to the heel of the club than middle of the club face?  This could be an amazing nugget for me personally, when I am chipping, I always have the ball closer to the heel, but alway had the ball center of club face in full shots on old swing.  My ball flight was always right.  

 

As as for the ABT I’m going to watch the instructional videos again, just looked at it briefly last night when it arrived.  

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by NJBigFish22

[nlk10010]

NJBigFish22: My guess (plus, I think it's in at least one training video) is that in a proper SP swing the body is slightly more open at impact than at address, bringing the club a bit "inward". Of course in my case trying to pay attention to this aspect of the SP is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. 🙂

Edited May 4, 2021 by nlk10010

[SwingBlues]

4 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

@SwingBlues This is an interesting statement to me, so your saying that at address the ball is actually closer to the heel of the club than middle of the club face?  This could be an amazing nugget for me personally, when I am chipping, I always have the ball closer to the heel, but alway had the ball center of club face in full shots on old swing.  My ball flight was always right.  

 

As as for the ABT I’m going to watch the instructional videos again, just looked at it briefly last night when it arrived.  

 

 

For a full swing, you address the ball at the heel and THEN you set the head directly in line with your belt buckle. Do not leave the head behind the ball! There are tons of Todd's instruction mentioning setting the ball with the heel of the club

 

When chipping and pitching, you set the ball in the middle of the face. Yes, there is a difference. And I asked Trent White (one of Todd's top instructors) and his response is that you are not loading the club as much chipping as you are in a full swing

 

@nlk10010 i captained the Titanic last Saturday, Super fun speeding along and then I came across the iceberg I did not see on the 16th, it was a quick sink after that... 🙄😂

Edited May 4, 2021 by SwingBlues

[Tupperwolf]

I pretty much quit my experimentation with the Moe swing, although I will say I learned a few things about the golf swing in general from my time focusing on it.  I learned why setting up with the heel to the ball works, and it actually works for me with my "normal" two-plane swing.  All this time I've been setting up with the sweet spot to the ball and missing it all over the face, with frequent bouts of the shanks.  Turns out that setting up with the heel to the ball really works as the body returns to the ball more open, pulling the club back and finding the sweet spot.

 

I drove the ball really well with the Moe swing (until it was time to play a scramble, where I hit it OB left two holes in a row and lost my confidence) but all of my shorter iron shots were just high and short.  I never felt any sensation of compressing the ball and I really missed that feeling of athleticism and whippiness that my old swing had.  Going back to my old swing, I've incorporated some things I learned from the Moe swing such as the heel setup, and it's really helped.  Practicing the 1-plane swing really injected some fun back into my game and I wouldn't hesitate to play around with it again in the future because making contact with the ball was a no-brainer, even if I never got my ballflight where I wanted it.

[SwingBlues]

4 hours ago, SEP1006 said:

SwingBlues - you are so right when saying this, it is not idiot proof. I myself have gone through exactly what you just posted more than once since transitioning to the Grave's method. Even to the point where I've contemplated going back to my old swing a few times. But I remember why I changed and get back on path. I do still think this is the easiest ( probably not the right word ) and most consistent swing method FOR ME. Even though I still have them my "bad holes" are getting further apart. So this is why I am committed to this swing.

 

@CB67 did what Todd recommended, which is to stay away from golf for 5 months and just work the drills. I did the opposite when I started around mid year 2020, I played and implemented and played and implemented. And in thinking through this, I think A LOT of my issues is with part of my old swing kicking in sub-consciously because I did not do a reset like CB67 and just forget the old swing and re-tool and re-calibrate to the new SP swing completely until the body/mind is set. I loved my golf too much to give up playing considering it's COVID and it's my stress relief

 

Be interested to see how @CB67 is doing with his swing?

 

[lenman73]

The last 3 rounds I played, starting out the driver was not cooperating.  By the middle of the rounds we were best friends again.  But I am most happy with the irons and hybrids.  Hybrids have always been hook machines for me more than other clubs and now and can use them with confidence.  That alone made this worth it.  For years it didn't matter what club I had in my hand, the fear of the hook was inbred in me.  Now knock on wood, I am happy to say if I hook 2 shots a round, it's a lot.  As far as distance goes, anyone who says the lose distance with this, in my opinion isn't doing it right.  I have never hit it longer and will be turning 48 soon.

[Quasimoto]

16 hours ago, SwingBlues said:

 

That's pretty rare to find a Moe coached student, as Moe was pretty shy. Was the kid from the same town as Moe? How did that happen?

 

Yeah, the fascinating thing about this swing is the perceived lack of distance. Todd addresses it in his last video and I have asked Todd to explain DeChambeau's one plane swing especially his lower body movement (I didn't say it but to me, BDC seems more like Junge's). Back then Todd's resposne, he did not recommend it as the basis of his swing was lower body stability and accuracy over pure distance.

 

As well, BDC address the ball middle of face, while Gaves address the ball at the heel. BDC has the left leg straightening up BUT if you watch his videos, he is very stable into a flex knee at impact but because he turns so hard, it looks like his left leg straightens like a regular 2 plane swing. Its really fascinating.

 

 

He was a junior at Georgetown in Toronto where Moe was the Head Professional for at least a few years.

[CB67]

On 5/4/2021 at 2:56 PM, SwingBlues said:

 

@CB67 did what Todd recommended, which is to stay away from golf for 5 months and just work the drills. I did the opposite when I started around mid year 2020, I played and implemented and played and implemented. And in thinking through this, I think A LOT of my issues is with part of my old swing kicking in sub-consciously because I did not do a reset like CB67 and just forget the old swing and re-tool and re-calibrate to the new SP swing completely until the body/mind is set. I loved my golf too much to give up playing considering it's COVID and it's my stress relief

 

Be interested to see how @CB67 is doing with his swing?

 

I’ve been doing great ! I can’t imagine now swinging my old way. I used to not be able to keep my rear foot down at impact and now I can’t imagine lifting it , it would feel so unnatural at this point. 
 

My stock is now a 5 yard draw. My miss is an over draw but it allows me to feel so comfortable in taking 1 side of the course out of play and letting me give myself room to bail out my misses and still be fine / in play. 

 

My biggest breakthrough was the position of the club behind the ball when I realized that Moe wasn’t just sitting it behind the ball, he was “turning” behind the ball, back cocking his shoulders. Setting up this way makes it feel impossible to come over the top and it’s why I’m striking the ball so nicely from the inside resulting in that little draw. 
 

If I want to fade the ball I simply rotate the club face at set up then re grip, adjust my aim and hit a fade with that same inside path swing. 

Also something else ive been doing which I added myself, was a grip change Shawn clement style , where I use a neutral grip with the club face closed 30 degrees at set up, and then tilt , get behind the ball, back c0ck the shoulders , get the hands leading and dynamically set the club face square like it’s going to be at impact.
 

This completely took the feeling of the hands out of it for me and I don’t feel my hands at all. This hasn’t hurt my accuracy any and has added an easy 30 yards off the tee. 

Its made me feel Moes vertical drop even more dynamically. 
 

Here’s the video , worth the watch 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by CB67

[NJBigFish22]

Ok I have received my ABT and made a swing trainer out of PVC and have been practicing.  I haven’t started hitting full shots with a ball yet, more just getting the positions and sequence right now.  I keep watching Todd’s videos and I am confused or maybe just need clarification.  When transitioning to the downswing, and moving my weight to the left (lead) knee, is it a downward weight shift or a lateral weight shift?  What I mean by downward is as I shift my weight, am I bending my knee?  Looking at Moe it looks like a downward shift, but watching Todd, it looks more lateral. 

[nlk10010]

Actually, looking at a FO video of Moe swinging a 7-iron, it looks to me like a lateral shift. Regardless, Todd has said in more than one video that it's a slight bend of the knee towards the ball; he says (paraphrasing) it's like "sliding your lead foot into a slipper". Then twist the pelvis.

 

The above said, I would say, from personal experience, that if you start to think: 1. Bend knee towards ball, then 2. Turn, you're going to mess up. Or at least some of us will mess up. In particular, I have seen it posted that one of the GG instructors (I think it was Clay) told a student attending a School that you should try, at least initially, not to think too much about the knee and what it's doing. Concentrate on rotating the pelvis.

 

I can only think of ONE thing at a time, at most, when I'm about to transition:  Twist the pelvis quickly, trying to maintain some "separation" from the torso, keeping the legs slightly flexed. That will bring the torso/arms/hands around automatically. And keep your head behind the ball. 

 

YMMV, Good Luck.

 

[NJBigFish22]

Thanks for the reply.  Everything you said makes sense.  I think I need to work more on rotating the pelvis.  In my mind shifting downward makes more sense to me and seems I’m doing without much thought, because I’m viewing as the start of the downswing.  I need to find a way to set up my phone or video camera to film myself to compare.

Edited May 10, 2021 by NJBigFish22

[SwingBlues]

5 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

Thanks for the reply.  Everything you said makes sense.  I think I need to work more on rotating the pelvis.  In my mind shifting downward makes more sense to me and seems I’m doing without much thought, because I’m viewing as the start of the downswing.  I need to find a way to set up my phone or video camera to film myself to compare.

 

Get this to hold your cell phone camera:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RZN37XL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Screw that into this tripod stand:

https://www.amazon.com/60-inch-UBeeszie-Extendable-Wireless-Compatible/dp/B085QNKTX9/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2HQ07ZVGGYP62&dchild=1&keywords=selfie+tripod+stand&qid=1620625565&s=electronics&sprefix=selfie+tripod+st%2Celectronics%2C223&sr=1-5

 

Assuming you have Android, download the HUDL Technique or V1 Golf. I use the HUDL more as I like it simpler interface and features better than V1

 

I would consider getting the video setup asap as it will give you the feedback that you need to see you are matching to the model.

[NJBigFish22]

So I have another ABT question after watching the videos again and I didn’t get an exact answer so I will ask here since you guys have been great. In the how to use video it says driver ball position is forward due to ball being on a tee. So my 2 questions. 

 

If I am hitting a FW or hybrid off the deck, are you putting ball at IBP?  
 

Now if you are hitting FW or hybrid off a tee, where is the ball position?

 

Thanks. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by NJBigFish22

[nlk10010]

27 minutes ago, NJBigFish22 said:

So I have another ABT question after watching the videos again and I didn’t get an exact answer so I will ask here since you guys have been great. In the how to use video it says driver ball position is forward due to ball being on a tee. So my 2 questions. 

 

If I am hitting a FW or hybrid off the deck, are you putting ball at IBP?  
 

Now if you are hitting FW or hybrid off a tee, where is the ball position?

 

Thanks. 

 

Good question, I will be watching for the responses you get.

 

My take is that the IBP on the ABT ( 🙂 ) is where you should place all balls not on a tee. I guess a proper swing is designed to "bottom out" just in front. So I place the ball at IBP for ALL clubs, unless I want to tee it up. There's a solid line between the IBP and the DBP (there I go again), which is sort of telling you that the higher you want to tee it the farther forward the ball should go. So I think it's a matter of how high you want to hit the ball that dictates how far along that line the ball should be; the higher the tee, the more forward, all the way to the DBP which is teed the highest, the lower the tee, the more back towards IBP. 

[SwingBlues]

I thought I had every YouTube video of Todd, guess not

 

So here is some ways that you can curve the ball with the one plane swing: draw, fades. However, Todd does not recommend it and he gives his reason WHY.

 

Also, note the ball positions of his 3 wood to work the ball. For a fade, he says it's way up front because of the open stance.

 

It's not always set in stone as to where you ball must be. Not all the time. Same as the trail foot is not set in stone that it has to be the ABT. Case in point, if I want to hit a low driver, I may even move my trail foot up to 4 iron position because the narrower stance promotes less angle of attack into the ball by controlling the left shoulder relative to the ball position.

 

Enjoy

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by SwingBlues

[NJBigFish22]

So I asked my question on the webinar they had the other night, and Blade answered that the ball position for a hybrid and fairway wood is at IBP no matter if hitting off the deck or a tee.  

[NJBigFish22]

So today I took a step forward and hit full swing shots into my backyard net, I felt like I made really solid contact on 48 out of the 50 swings, but 5 or 6 the trajectory seemed off or poor.  Eventually will need to go to range and see if contact and ball flight match up.  I didn’t video cause I just wanted to get a feel of hitting the ball.  I will set up video tomorrow to confirm if I’m doing things right.  I felt like I wasn’t tilted even though I did the slide hand down leg move, and my back swing felt short, so hopefully video will show me if I’m right or not.  I see a lot of promise so far.

[NJBigFish22]

Besides the fact I look god awful on camera, that saying the camera adds 10 pounds is no lie.  Well my swings looked terrible.  Didn’t look like I had any tilt even though the video shows me tilting.  From down the line I had couldn’t see the left arm over the right arm.  Rotation seemed minimal.  I also think my head is down to much.  My back foot came off the ground.  I’m not sure if some was mental knowing I was videoing myself and had every swing thought going through my mind.  The way I felt today was so different from the other day.  I’m not sure how to upload a video from Hudl Technique or else I would ask for your critiques.  I really can see the merits of this swing, but I guess I need to keep watching Todd and practicing.  Just a little frustrated.

[lenman73]

13 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

Besides the fact I look god awful on camera, that saying the camera adds 10 pounds is no lie.  Well my swings looked terrible.  Didn’t look like I had any tilt even though the video shows me tilting.  From down the line I had couldn’t see the left arm over the right arm.  Rotation seemed minimal.  I also think my head is down to much.  My back foot came off the ground.  I’m not sure if some was mental knowing I was videoing myself and had every swing thought going through my mind.  The way I felt today was so different from the other day.  I’m not sure how to upload a video from Hudl Technique or else I would ask for your critiques.  I really can see the merits of this swing, but I guess I need to keep watching Todd and practicing.  Just a little frustrated.

 

  It pains me to say the last few rounds I have played have not gone well.  My driver left me when that was a strong part of my game and now I am hitting almost everything with every full swing with every club left.  Very few hooks, but straight pulls left.  I was so deflated after league Wednesday night, I had almost talked myself out of this method.   Then remembered 2 weeks ago, I was striking it much better.  Last weekend on the range I was striking it well. Then on the course starting last weekend, directly after a range session it went to hell in a hand cart.  Sadly I had to face reality and realize it was me and not the method.   It was me and not my clubs.  

 

  So I have decided to keep going forward with this method.  This weekend I will work through what I got going on now.  I will get through this and once again hit the ball like I know I can. 

[SwingBlues]

This is a very good swing but like any other change in golf, it needs time to settle & harden like good concrete. Even my swing goes awry & I still find those a-ha moments.

 

Dont forget you’re doing this on your own, there is no warm blanket comfort of a paid pga professional watching you & charging you for the use of that blanket. Closest is Todd’s Gold Membership which was very reasonable when I had it.  You may want to consider it as it has details not laid out on his free channel.

 

However, what I learnt & keep learning is setting Position 1 & then 2 is KEY. That’s partial drill stuff but you also need a full motion drill - the shoulder to shoulder drill is fantastic. You can feel HOW your lower body should transition & move after P2 to a full finish. This was from Todd’s 10x boot camp & the Domino effect which I learnt from his membership when I had it.

 

It’s a learning curve. While it’s easier than 2 plane, you’ll go backward & forward and you’ll be scratching your head & you’ll have your “A HA” just as I have been.

 

I would never go back. My back is great, sustainable for golfing rounds & range. Distance is there, just carted a 5 iron 225 after a great session of shoulder to shoulder drill. Feel free to PM me if u need help, review etc

[Nels55]

3 hours ago, lenman73 said:

 

  It pains me to say the last few rounds I have played have not gone well.  My driver left me when that was a strong part of my game and now I am hitting almost everything with every full swing with every club left.  Very few hooks, but straight pulls left.  I was so deflated after league Wednesday night, I had almost talked myself out of this method.   Then remembered 2 weeks ago, I was striking it much better.  Last weekend on the range I was striking it well. Then on the course starting last weekend, directly after a range session it went to hell in a hand cart.  Sadly I had to face reality and realize it was me and not the method.   It was me and not my clubs.  

 

  So I have decided to keep going forward with this method.  This weekend I will work through what I got going on now.  I will get through this and once again hit the ball like I know I can. 

Straight pulls mean that your club face is square to the path which is a good thing.  So, the first thing to check is your alignment as possibly you are simply lined up aiming left of target.  If alignment is good then your path is too far outside in and you need to correct that.  Possibly with this method you could do some pvc pipe drills to get the feel of staying on plane.

 

Another fix is to practice hitting pushed shots and pulled shots to get the feel of each shot.  This will allow your brain / body to self organize the swing producing the results that you desire.

 

Good luck!

[lenman73]

Thanks guys.  I deduced that part of my issue stems from the last range session.  

 

Little back story.  Through a friend, I got hooked up playing with a new group of fellas this year.  Needless to say, most of these boys are pretty good sticks.  Last weekend at the range we were forced to hit off mats.  Normally I hate that, but these were the nicest I had ever used.  Only problem was they hid little flaws in the swing like hitting a little fat.  But since I liked the results I was seeing, I kept at it and kept swinging harder and harder and you get the point. All in an effort to hit it further instead of just playing my game.  While this method has cost me no distance and I have actually gained some, like an idiot, I wanted more and too quick. I think I worked my way into swinging to hard and timing and rhythm are gone.  So now I have to work backwards to get back to where I was. If that makes sense.

[NJBigFish22]

After having the night to think about everything, I probably shouldn’t have hit balls at all.  Wasn’t in the right frame of mind.  We had to rush our dog to the hospital and had to put him down.  Carrying 100 pound lab tweeked my back and didn’t feel comfortable and I probably made it worse.  Going to take a couple days and then restart.  I do want to thank you guys for all the help!

[lenman73]

3 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

After having the night to think about everything, I probably shouldn’t have hit balls at all.  Wasn’t in the right frame of mind.  We had to rush our dog to the hospital and had to put him down.  Carrying 100 pound lab tweeked my back and didn’t feel comfortable and I probably made it worse.  Going to take a couple days and then restart.  I do want to thank you guys for all the help!

My condolences to you and your family on your loss.  The back will heal quicker than the heart my friend. 

[ChaosTheory]

13 hours ago, lenman73 said:

 

  It pains me to say the last few rounds I have played have not gone well.  My driver left me when that was a strong part of my game and now I am hitting almost everything with every full swing with every club left.  Very few hooks, but straight pulls left.  I was so deflated after league Wednesday night, I had almost talked myself out of this method.   Then remembered 2 weeks ago, I was striking it much better.  Last weekend on the range I was striking it well. Then on the course starting last weekend, directly after a range session it went to hell in a hand cart.  Sadly I had to face reality and realize it was me and not the method.   It was me and not my clubs.  

 

  So I have decided to keep going forward with this method.  This weekend I will work through what I got going on now.  I will get through this and once again hit the ball like I know I can. 

Ive been using this swing for 15 or 16 years.  Every year I lose it more than once and have to go back to the basics.  It’s a golf swing. 🙃

[SwingBlues]

8 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

After having the night to think about everything, I probably shouldn’t have hit balls at all.  Wasn’t in the right frame of mind.  We had to rush our dog to the hospital and had to put him down.  Carrying 100 pound lab tweeked my back and didn’t feel comfortable and I probably made it worse.  Going to take a couple days and then restart.  I do want to thank you guys for all the help!

My condolences, pet are family. Take the time off, perhaps have a good think rather than swinging & hitting balls definitely does good. We’ll all be here. Still. Golf is always a work in progress... 

[lenman73]

Well after 45 holes this weekend I am happy to say the driver is coming back to be a well behaved child.  Only minimal discipline was necessary.  The irons however are still a work in progress but did see some improvement. So overall I left the weekend more hopeful than the previous weekend. Now the putting......