Has Anyone Ever Come Across A Moe Student Or Graves Golf Academy Pupil?

[SwingBlues]

Video feedback guys. That is so important.

 

Like @NJBigFish22, I can't believe how bad my video looks on my driver (after coming back from a 1 week break). My P1 & P2 is looking BAD on video. Can't feel that I am so handsy. I really need to fix that.

Also, I finally captured a video of my nasty weak, slice like hit. This shot has been bothering me since it would creep in now and then and I suspected it was off the toe AND IT IS. Finally got a video capture of it. It's a lower body move gone awry. Again, cannot feel but can be seen.

 

So, get yourself a good tripod and cell phone holder.

 

Sidenote - also, it looks like HUDL Technique is being shut down on Sep 1. The crappy company that bought it wants all HUDL users to migrate to their OnForm app but the sucky thing is that it's only on Apple. If you are on Android, you're SOL. There are 2 apps - Coach and Athlete. Athlete is on Apple & Android but Coach is a paid Apple only. Sucks. Looks like it's back to V1 then. If anyone has a comparable HUDL like app they can recommend, let us know...

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by SwingBlues

[SwingBlues]

I'll throw this out here. 4 pictures of my BAD toe hit swing . Recorded using the V1 app and I drew some guide lines to give you an idea of my plane, my spine and also my butt in relation to the ball.

 

Left is my setup. The next 3 frames are just before impact, impact and just after impact and you can clearly see the ball come off the toe.

 

Now I was able to solve this by setting more at the heel at setup but it's very curious because, aside from a slight heel lift, nothing seems to be "too awry".

 

 

Spacing seems to be pretty good and driver shaft is very close to on plane like setup. However, it does look a little right to left club head movement like it's cutting across the ball.

 

Just trying to figure out the root cause. Comments?

 

CC @CB67

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by SwingBlues

[nlk10010]

6 hours ago, SwingBlues said:

I'll throw this out here. 4 pictures of my BAD toe hit swing . Recorded using the V1 app and I drew some guide lines to give you an idea of my plane, my spine and also my butt in relation to the ball.

 

Left is my setup. The next 3 frames are just before impact, impact and just after impact and you can clearly see the ball come off the toe.

 

Now I was able to solve this by setting more at the heel at setup but it's very curious because, aside from a slight heel lift, nothing seems to be "too awry".

 

 

Spacing seems to be pretty good and driver shaft is very close to on plane like setup. However, it does look a little right to left club head movement like it's cutting across the ball.

 

Just trying to figure out the root cause. Comments?

 

CC @CB67

 

 

 

Stipulating to the fact that I'm an expert at bad video analysis (mine are the worst): My first guess would be that your arms aren't extended as you get to impact ("chicken wing"?, no offense intended). That would in theory do it.

 

Another thing: Your video shows your lead arm above your trail at impact, which is, IIRC, incorrect. At impact or beyond your arms should line up from DTL view as a result of your body being rotated at impact. The reason Todd recommends setting up with the ball towards the heel of the club is precisely this reason, the position of the body at impact is not the same as at setup, it's rotated and hence the club is slightly "pulled away" from where it was when you set up. But your body appears to be in roughly the same position at impact as it was at setup, so this correction shouldn't be necessary. Of course the video might not be directly DTL (I can't tell) but from what was posted I would make those two (again, very non-expert) comments.

Edited May 26, 2021 by nlk10010

[lenman73]

I can't remember which video it was, but Todd had mentioned setting up slightly to the heal of the club. Reason being the shoulders were slightly open at impact causing the lead arm to come inside some.  If you are extended at address and the shoulders are slightly open at impact,  you have to do this because the club does not get longer during the swing.  Hope this made sense.

[SwingBlues]

Thanks for the feedback @nlk10010 & @lenman73 The camera was positioned behind where the hands are so it should be in the middle of DTL. I should have taken a front on view but the stall next to me was taken.

 

One thing I did not show was the handsy bad takeaway. Worked on that yesterday to correct the path, talking about P1 and P2. Hitting it better yesterday but my driver ball position was literally at the adapter (rubber tee)  and then I move the club backward to the middle.

 

I think you guys are onto something there with the more extension at setup and less extension at impact.

 

Golf is the opposite and this may be the case here with my arms overly extended at static setup and then not as much extension as I come into impact. As well, the over extension could also be forcing me to a more handsy takeaway. My fix for the takeaway was to just keep my upper still and just let my hip/lower body turn and the video feedback seems to show it perfect when I do the drill.

 

I'll toy with the left shoulder setup as well. Like I said this swing is a work in-progress. Great one day, crap the next... joke 😜

[lenman73]

33 minutes ago, SwingBlues said:

Thanks for the feedback @nlk10010 & @lenman73 The camera was positioned behind where the hands are so it should be in the middle of DTL. I should have taken a front on view but the stall next to me was taken.

 

One thing I did not show was the handsy bad takeaway. Worked on that yesterday to correct the path, talking about P1 and P2. Hitting it better yesterday but my driver ball position was literally at the adapter (rubber tee)  and then I move the club backward to the middle.

 

I think you guys are onto something there with the more extension at setup and less extension at impact.

 

Golf is the opposite and this may be the case here with my arms overly extended at static setup and then not as much extension as I come into impact. As well, the over extension could also be forcing me to a more handsy takeaway. My fix for the takeaway was to just keep my upper still and just let my hip/lower body turn and the video feedback seems to show it perfect when I do the drill.

 

I'll toy with the left shoulder setup as well. Like I said this swing is a work in-progress. Great one day, crap the next... joke 😜

Dude, I get it.   I'm going through the same thing right now.  Since I get next to no practice time, 95 percent of my practice is on course.  I have to remember the model as Todd says.  I dont always remember in time.  But now I am in a single plane swing group on Facebook.   Some people like the Junge method better and complain the Todd's method is too rigid.  It's this way or the highway.  Well if ya think about it.  Todd's method is singularly focused on one model for the purpose of making golf easier.  Well that is the path I am now taking.  If something goes wrong, I have a consistent model to fall back on.  The other methods, now I have something customized to me, where did I go wrong?  Now I need cameras and extra eyes to figure it out.  

 

Let me first say I am not affiliated with Graves golf or anything like that.  This just happens to be what I feel is the best method for me.  If others like another method then great. I am not trying to dismiss it or talk them out of it.  That's why I never gave my thoughts to the people on facebook who left the Graves way.  They made up their minds.  It's cool.  I would still love to golf with them or anyone else who went single plane regardless of method.  I would like to see more than just me in my foursome using it. Maybe someday......

[NJBigFish22]

The 1 thing I like about the Junge method is the distance to the ball, just starting this the distance in the graves method is weird.  Also since my back is still bothering me I have been working on setup.  I have been toying with both, even though I know I need to pick 1 method.  I will say that I don’t feel like I tilt with graves but feel the tilt with Junge.  

 

I noticed Hudl got bought, didn’t know it was going to stop working soon.  

[SwingBlues]

@NJBigFish22 yeah, HUDL is going to stop working on Sep 1. Apparently. But did you know that the OnForm comapny that bought it only has the "Coach" version of the app in Apple only and it's paid.

 

So if you have a Android, you're SOL. Also, while it's great that they will allow you to migrate it's useless as the Athlete version of the app, you have to be "invited" by someone with a Coach app. IMO, it's a big disservice and disappointment as HUDL has the best clean interface than V1 and there is no chance in hell to test the OnForm since it basically does not exist for Android

 

If you find something better than V1, let me know. I can do with V1 for now but the editor for lines etc is kinda clunky and I got the S21+ phone so it's not the cell phone.

 

Also, you cannot now download using HUDL app to get off their platform. I found a clunky work around where basically I have to "share" it with myself and that will force the app to upload to the cloud, then I log into the HUDL web and basically use my desktop to record the swing since there is no download option on their web either - just "play".

 

I am done with HUDL and OnForm. No more.

Edited May 26, 2021 by SwingBlues

[SwingBlues]

Still struggling with my Toe hit driver. I mean REALLY BAD. I swore I had it fixed by setting the driver even more heelside (infact, the ball is inside the heel of the driver) but that was bad. I started to question my forward bend as well. Saturday I golfed but I was hitting the driver so bad my back was screwed and I packed it in after 9 holes.

 

But today, I think I may have figured it out.

 

I think I am overcooking the setup of the ball at the heel. It's just too much. I think whats happening is that it's making me come in from the outside with the club head, like I am cutting across the ball. It's so weird but on video, thats whats happening. Didn't know I was capable of that until I saw the video.

 

So I just went back to setting -just- a little heel side from middle and I started hitting balls in the middle of the face again.

 

Whats really fascinating is that the mind will make adjustments to correct the stupid setup mistakes. Anyway, lets see if this fix will hold up.

[Nels55]

18 minutes ago, SwingBlues said:

Still struggling with my Toe hit driver. I mean REALLY BAD. I swore I had it fixed by setting the driver even more heelside (infact, the ball is inside the heel of the driver) but that was bad. I started to question my forward bend as well. Saturday I golfed but I was hitting the driver so bad my back was screwed and I packed it in after 9 holes.

 

But today, I think I may have figured it out.

 

I think I am overcooking the setup of the ball at the heel. It's just too much. I think whats happening is that it's making me come in from the outside with the club head, like I am cutting across the ball. It's so weird but on video, thats whats happening. Didn't know I was capable of that until I saw the video.

 

So I just went back to setting -just- a little heel side from middle and I started hitting balls in the middle of the face again.

 

Whats really fascinating is that the mind will make adjustments to correct the stupid setup mistakes. Anyway, lets see if this fix will hold up.

You can practice hitting shots off of the heel and the toe to build skill at hitting the ball in the middle of the face.  To correct a toe hit I would recommend setting up with the ball out on the toe because your brain will correct during your swing bringing contact back to the middle.  Setting up with the ball on heel is most likely making things worse.  

[SwingBlues]

18 hours ago, Nels55 said:

You can practice hitting shots off of the heel and the toe to build skill at hitting the ball in the middle of the face.  To correct a toe hit I would recommend setting up with the ball out on the toe because your brain will correct during your swing bringing contact back to the middle.  Setting up with the ball on heel is most likely making things worse.  

 

Appreciate the feedback and suggestions. However, the Graves/Moe one plane swing model is very different to the 2 plane where it is bad to set heel side. However, without getting into the deep menusha, its really a part of that model. Been driving great since Sep last year so this is recent. Working on improving the takeaway, I think I may be over cooking it and without turning this into a psychotic Y issue, I see it's just a part of the progression to get better, you make mistakes, figure it out and keep progressing...

 

Anyone know if the Kirk Junge model also has the ball setup at the heel of the driver?

Edited June 1, 2021 by SwingBlues

[NJBigFish22]

2 hours ago, SwingBlues said:

 

Anyone know if the Kirk Junge model also has the ball setup at the heel of the driver?

I have been watching a few videos because his version is more comfortable and I can get the right tilt.  The frustrating thing is he doesn’t break things down like Todd.  I don’t know if this is because he would be infringing legally somehow on GG model.   However when you look at the DTL views it does appear it is very slightly set towards the heel at address.  Not as much as TG.   In my 1/3 to 1/2 swing practice shots (back still sore on full swings) I believe I have been getting better contact with favoring towards heel (approximately 1/2 way between center of club face and heel).  I’m sure this doesn’t help much, since it’s not concrete.

Edited June 1, 2021 by NJBigFish22

[nlk10010]

I agree, the precise breakdown is the main reason I try to stick with the Graves approach. Junge argues there are three main points of differentiation between his and Todd's model:  You can stand closer to the ball, don't have to keep your trail foot down through the swing and don't rotate around a flexed lead knee. However, impact position should still be slightly more open than address position so I don't know why you wouldn't address the ball towards the heel in both models.

[SMiller365]

On 6/1/2021 at 9:14 PM, SwingBlues said:

 

 

Anyone know if the Kirk Junge model also has the ball setup at the heel of the driver?

Kirk said he sets up with his ball close to the hosel but I set up with mine close to the toe. 'Do whatever allows you to hit the ball off the middle of the club face'. I set up closer to the toe because my upper body gets slightly closer to the ball at impact resulting in a shank, maybe you come away from the ball slightly?

[SwingBlues]

4 hours ago, SMiller365 said:

Kirk said he sets up with his ball close to the hosel but I set up with mine close to the toe. 'Do whatever allows you to hit the ball off the middle of the club face'. I set up closer to the toe because my upper body gets slightly closer to the ball at impact resulting in a shank, maybe you come away from the ball slightly?

 

Welcome to GolfWRX, @SMiller365

 

The video shows I am pulling away just a smidgen. Now is that because of the Rod being too tense at setup, or my shoulder too far ahead of the chest, that's what I have to explore. Too tense of a left arm for the reach means the opposite will occur in motion, the "un-reach". Also, you cannot swing tense, at least not with speed.

 

All I know, the last range was good when I sit the ball between center and hose heel, more close to center. Contrast that with picture I provided in my post above where the ball was sitting in front of the adapter. I think my body is mostly good except going to Position 1 but thats a work in-progress.

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by SwingBlues

[SwingBlues]

SUCCESS! My driver toe shot is now gone. The trick is to set the ball between middle of the face and where the adapter meets the head. More bias towards the middle.

 

Hit a nice drive, 2nd shot - birdy! Got 3 birds and 1 bogey. The Graves short game was singing today as well. Irons were great.

 

Back 9 the driver started playing up, to the left but the good news was that the driver was straight or hooky left. The right miss is gone, so was the push fade. I maintained the one way miss which helped hell of a lot even if the OB was left.

 

Next goal is to work on removing my hooky left miss to narrow the driving cone.

 

Luving the One Plane swing again.

[ChaosTheory]

17 hours ago, SwingBlues said:

SUCCESS! My driver toe shot is now gone. The trick is to set the ball between middle of the face and where the adapter meets the head. More bias towards the middle.

 

Hit a nice drive, 2nd shot - birdy! Got 3 birds and 1 bogey. The Graves short game was singing today as well. Irons were great.

 

Back 9 the driver started playing up, to the left but the good news was that the driver was straight or hooky left. The right miss is gone, so was the push fade. I maintained the one way miss which helped hell of a lot even if the OB was left.

 

Next goal is to work on removing my hooky left miss to narrow the driving cone.

 

Luving the One Plane swing again.

You can try either a less wide stance with the driver, or weaken the lead hand a little.

[SMiller365]

I started with the Graves swing around September last year and found it really simple with woods but my irons were often hit very thin and didn't travel very far. I signed up to setup4impact and submitted 3 8 iron videos and found this to be perfect for me as it wasn't a '1 size fits all' solution' and I could tinker with certain aspects of the set up/grip

 

I've now had to alternate swings between irons/hybrids and driver as my driver was becoming a problem, so much so that I ended up using a 3 hybrid off the tee. I switched back to a pre-2020 Bryson type swing with my driver on the back 9 of a round on Saturday and hit 6 out of 7 fairways (hit the 7th off the toe but still in play). I hit my driver around 20 yards shorter using this swing, I think because I weaken the grip a lot and use less wrist hinge but I can live with playing off the fairway more often. I got the swing thought process from a Todd Graves video on Youtube (Mistake-proof Your Golf Swing Like Bryson DeChambeau)

 

I would certainly recommend the setup4impact approach and feel a lot more consistent playing golf. I look forward to following this thread

[SwingBlues]

18 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

You can try either a less wide stance with the driver, or weaken the lead hand a little.

 

Thanks for the tips. Yeah, I thought I was doing that. My intention was to definitely set my left hand weak with the ulnar deviation, not strong at all.

 

I suspect theres more to this as I was swinging it great front 9 just lost the feeling in the back 9. Grip seems same all through 18 since work through a process for setup. I got a few things to check. But this is MUCH EASIER to fix than the driver toe hit... at least I am middling the driver now.

[SwingBlues]

I am going to throw this in here because this is really, really helpful

 

I have a ton of stuff from Todd including the Gold Membership stuff but I think whats missing for me is getting to the Top and how to maintain the one plane.

 

I am so loose there and the video shows this. Using my clubs, I am losing power and inconsistency because at the top, my club is crossing the line and this, IMO and seeing the videos, is causing hooks, pulls and weak shots.

 

Today, at the range, I really worked on planing the club at the top using Eric's suggestion and you know what, it really works. It feels good. After the many drills and feel sessions, my 16.5HL 4 wood was going furthest than I have ever seen it. The 2 iron was playable again. Long irons were much better but I MUST plane the club at the top. While I still have a "ditzy" mini-move at the transition, the ciub is planing nicely as it comes down.

 

Anyway, check it out:

 

 

Also, while the Moe/Graves swing is unique, it really has parts that are very, very similar to the 2 plane swing.

 

Sometimes, for me, it takes a different "book" to "get it".

 

Enjoy

Edited June 9, 2021 by SwingBlues

[lenman73]

A post above was talking about thinning irons. I too sometimes struggle with this with the graves method. Then I realized my stance was creeping wider and wider.  With the graves method, that actually moves the ball forward.  What I like about the graves method, I have said it before, is the model.  When something goes wrong, go to the model. From what I have done so far it works.  I do get that it's not for everyone, but I am happy and continue to improve with it. 

[NJBigFish22]

Quick question for you guys, do you use grips based on hand size or do you use larger grips?  I use standard grips based on hand size, but a lot of times it feels like I’m trying to choke the club.  I was at a big box store and they had a set of pings with a jumbo golf pride sized grips.  It felt so comfortable in my hands and the practice swings I didn’t feel like I was choking the club.  So I’m thinking going oversized 5-PW and then midsize in 50*, 54* and 58*, cause I have a light grip when chipping.  Is this a good idea?

[SwingBlues]

4 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

Quick question for you guys, do you use grips based on hand size or do you use larger grips?  I use standard grips based on hand size, but a lot of times it feels like I’m trying to choke the club.  I was at a big box store and they had a set of pings with a jumbo golf pride sized grips.  It felt so comfortable in my hands and the practice swings I didn’t feel like I was choking the club.  So I’m thinking going oversized 5-PW and then midsize in 50*, 54* and 58*, cause I have a light grip when chipping.  Is this a good idea?

 

I layer my standard grips (I use Pure Wraps) based on Todd's guide. You can have grips that are way too big so you have problems releasing and also it puts the club in the wrong part of the hand if its too big or too small. Check your PM

Edited June 13, 2021 by SwingBlues

[ChaosTheory]

I agree ^^^
You want big enough that the grip fills your hand but not bigger.  If I wore a glove, I would wear a medium, and my grip of choice is a Golfpride Tour Wrap midsize with its larger lower section.  ie Less taper.  

[NJBigFish22]

So I went to the range this afternoon and it was ugly. I probably hit 4 good shots out of 30. The 4 good ones were 3/4 wedges. For the most part it felt like I was topping the ball. I think I my body was coming up through impact. I think I need to do a lot of work on the ball striking drills. I’m not discouraged since I haven’t been to a driving range for 8 years, just need more practice.  I would classify this range session as more Junge.  Before I hurt my back a couple weeks ago, I felt I was making solid contact strictly following graves.

 

The other thing is I think I need to pick Junge or Graves.  Graves the swing and process make the most sense to me and how my brain works.  However the Junge method feels more natural from a body perspective, and doesn’t have the same tension in my back. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by NJBigFish22

[SwingBlues]

It was a weird day today at golf. Played Encino here in Los Angeles

 

The drives were hot and cold. 1 left toe drive on a Par 5, still made Par. Hit some long ones eventhough it did not feel long but the ball was out there. 3 wood was singing to save my butt as a 2nd shot when the drives were cold. Yes, the thought did drift into my mind to ditch the driver. Now, I have been going back & forth with a Ventus Black or a RDX Black, may be thats whats killing me...

 

Tim Graves short game saved my a.$$. Chip, pitch and Chitch. Even had a couple of Sandy Pars. But I just could not get anything in for the birds. Nada. Burn the edges. As well, some weird stuff like a 4 wood HL at 223 yards Par 3 15th, ball lands on the green and decides to embed. On the green. Embedded, WTH.

 

Those Par 3s chewed me up, +3 on the 4 Par 3s. The rest were Pars. Going to refocus on the driver and the mid irons this week. My miss is a big draw. Won't say hooky but its a draw. At least, like last round, I kept my miss on one side. Something is still going on there.

 

Not an easy day but still fun. Luving the short game but it's a lot of pressure to get up and down, not even sniff a chance at a bird or eagle until I get my irons right....

Edited June 14, 2021 by SwingBlues

[nlk10010]

15 hours ago, NJBigFish22 said:

So I went to the range this afternoon and it was ugly. I probably hit 4 good shots out of 30. The 4 good ones were 3/4 wedges. For the most part it felt like I was topping the ball. I think I my body was coming up through impact. I think I need to do a lot of work on the ball striking drills. I’m not discouraged since I haven’t been to a driving range for 8 years, just need more practice.  I would classify this range session as more Junge.  Before I hurt my back a couple weeks ago, I felt I was making solid contact strictly following graves.

 

The other thing is I think I need to pick Junge or Graves.  Graves the swing and process make the most sense to me and how my brain works.  However the Junge method feels more natural from a body perspective, and doesn’t have the same tension in my back. 

 

You could be me.

 

The thing that I fight constantly in this swing is the "coming up" out of it. I attribute it to having to be too far from the ball with my stance wider than I'm comfortable with. But I'm not sure I don't fight this problem with other swings or that I wouldn't fight it with Junge. I really like the Graves approach and I just stand as far as I am comfortable with and take practice swings to make sure my club makes a more-or-less straight path through the ball. This is actually something I DID adopt from Junge, setting distance by using practice swings to judge what's comfortable. The other thing is keeping the head behind-the-ball, it's very difficult but you need to increase your side bend on the downswing to keep your head still. As one of the Graves pros said (so I feel comfortable in offering it as advice), don't worry so much about the shift into the bent lead knee, concentrate first on rotating the pelvis while keeping the body where it is (torso-pelvis separation), doing that will automatically bend the knee and pull the arms around. I work an awful lot on a Paul Wilson-type swing, just using hip rotation to pull the arms.

 

Of course, this is just me, I'm merely offering that the Junge method MIGHT not be the answer. You still need to concentrate on that hip rotation to drive the swing (Junge makes a point of this in many of his drills, don't hit with the arms) and once you do that Graves might not be so bad. Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with adopting a slight hybrid. That's strange coming from me, I'm told I'm a classic "all or nothing" type, but in my old age I've softened up a bit. 🙂 

[chipa]

14 minutes ago, nlk10010 said:

 

You could be me.

 

The thing that I fight constantly in this swing is the "coming up" out of it. I attribute it to having to be too far from the ball with my stance wider than I'm comfortable with. But I'm not sure I don't fight this problem with other swings or that I wouldn't fight it with Junge. I really like the Graves approach and I just stand as far as I am comfortable with and take practice swings to make sure my club makes a more-or-less straight path through the ball. This is actually something I DID adopt from Junge, setting distance by using practice swings to judge what's comfortable. The other thing is keeping the head behind-the-ball, it's very difficult but you need to increase your side bend on the downswing to keep your head still. As one of the Graves pros said (so I feel comfortable in offering it as advice), don't worry so much about the shift into the bent lead knee, concentrate first on rotating the pelvis while keeping the body where it is (torso-pelvis separation), doing that will automatically bend the knee and pull the arms around. I work an awful lot on a Paul Wilson-type swing, just using hip rotation to pull the arms.

 

Of course, this is just me, I'm merely offering that the Junge method MIGHT not be the answer. You still need to concentrate on that hip rotation to drive the swing (Junge makes a point of this in many of his drills, don't hit with the arms) and once you do that Graves might not be so bad. Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with adopting a slight hybrid. That's strange coming from me, I'm told I'm a classic "all or nothing" type, but in my old age I've softened up a bit. 🙂 

 

I have a friend who is learning golf that fights lifting out of the shot. We are both in our 50's. I myself have tried just about everything out there  including Moe Norman's swing. However, I have back problems and can't do every type of swing that can be found. For example, the Saguto methog and Stack and Tilt both kill my lower back. I can't do the one peice takeaway because it goes to far inside and again kills my lower back. Ballards method leaves me wondering what to do with the hands. Nonetheless, there is a technique that I use when I'm hitting it well that does not hurt that I am trying to identify, plus I hit it plenty long for my age. It is basically getting the club pointed back early like Hogan recommended and many other well known golfers have done over the years. It is not the one piece takeaway as the hand and left arm rotate early. Jack Nicklaus swung like this when he was younger. While MLDT did not talk about the specifics of the takeaway he does have a video where he shows a student the very same technique of getting the club pointed back early then pushing it back. That in a nutshell is my technique, turn the left hand and left shoulder in until the shaft is pointing back then push the left hand and shoulder straight back. As long as one doesn't pull the club back with the right hand or lift it up the right leg will load as the club is pushed back. This is the technique that works off and on for my novice friend. However, his naturally tendency is to always pick the club straight up, thus he never allows his right leg to compress in addition to wrecking the swing by pulling the right hand and shoulder back. I have asked him to look at the MLDT video until it looks natuaral to him. When he executes it well he has plenty of distance and can hit his 5 wood 200 yards and his 2 wood 225. Taking short practice swings hitting into a tire is another good method to get the weight to the right side.

[lenman73]

3 hours ago, nlk10010 said:

 

You could be me.

 

The thing that I fight constantly in this swing is the "coming up" out of it. I attribute it to having to be too far from the ball with my stance wider than I'm comfortable with. But I'm not sure I don't fight this problem with other swings or that I wouldn't fight it with Junge. I really like the Graves approach and I just stand as far as I am comfortable with and take practice swings to make sure my club makes a more-or-less straight path through the ball. This is actually something I DID adopt from Junge, setting distance by using practice swings to judge what's comfortable. The other thing is keeping the head behind-the-ball, it's very difficult but you need to increase your side bend on the downswing to keep your head still. As one of the Graves pros said (so I feel comfortable in offering it as advice), don't worry so much about the shift into the bent lead knee, concentrate first on rotating the pelvis while keeping the body where it is (torso-pelvis separation), doing that will automatically bend the knee and pull the arms around. I work an awful lot on a Paul Wilson-type swing, just using hip rotation to pull the arms.

 

Of course, this is just me, I'm merely offering that the Junge method MIGHT not be the answer. You still need to concentrate on that hip rotation to drive the swing (Junge makes a point of this in many of his drills, don't hit with the arms) and once you do that Graves might not be so bad. Also, there's absolutely nothing wrong with adopting a slight hybrid. That's strange coming from me, I'm told I'm a classic "all or nothing" type, but in my old age I've softened up a bit. 🙂 

 

 

I to have been fighting the thin iron shot, and it wasn't until I was on my way home from the course yesterday that I realized my lead leg was straightening.   As usual I am a work in progress,  just wish I would have realized the fault quicker.  I blame the adult beverages that were flowing in the near 90 degree heat. But hey, I was having fun !

[NJBigFish22]

So I decided to go back to strictly the Graves method.  Hit some balls and better contact, even though only doing half swings.  The problem today are 1) confirming I need to get more flexible, 2) I have s hard time keeping trail foot on the ground.  Now this could be because of problem 1.