Do you throw or twist?

Nels55 · March 22

44 minutes ago, GreatStrike said:

You're making far too much out of where on your foot you should feel the most pressure. I really can't imagine when or why anyone would turn into their heel to make any type of athletic move...

During the backswing weight goes onto the trail heel. If the hips move correctly:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cto7_HNrVx2/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ%3D%3D

virtuoso · March 22

1 hour ago, GreatStrike said:

Of course you did! I'm surprised you didn't expect that to happen. Well, I'm really not surprised...

Dude, I literally topped the first two shots I tried it. That surprised me because I rarely top the ball. I’m a usually a pretty good ball striker. I was just hoping I would not have to make the compromise of only using the trail side or the lead side. I want to use both sides if possible. Does that make sense? It seems like you’d have the most power and control that way.

Laaandry · March 22

35 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

During the backswing weight goes onto the trail heel. If the hips move correctly:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cto7_HNrVx2/?igsh=NzBmMjdhZWRiYQ%3D%3D

I may be misunderstanding terms here since weight and pressure often get used interchangeably, but you can have pressure in the ball of your foot while the weight of the hip is back, right? Like if you were doing a wall sit and lifted your heel off the ground, the pressure would be at the front of your foot supporting your weight backwards.

Here's a pressure map that shows very little pressure goes into the trail heel. https://www.instagram.com/athletic_motion_golf/reel/C17DnnGP-lh/

I could be off base with this, but I certainly don't feel pressure into my trail heel, if I do, I get stuck. I instead feel a push of pressure into the ball of my trail foot before shifting back to the lead side.

GreatStrike · March 22

At the top I think the pressure should be on the inside of the trail foot's heel and under the big toe. I think too much pressure centered on the trail heel would tend to cause a spinout or sway.

Kicking the trail knee in toward the left leg like Gary Player does would tend to place trail foot pressure differently.

GreatStrike · March 22

12 hours ago, virtuoso said:

Dude, I literally topped the first two shots I tried it. That surprised me because I rarely top the ball. I’m a usually a pretty good ball striker. I was just hoping I would not have to make the compromise of only using the trail side or the lead side. I want to use both sides if possible. Does that make sense? It seems like you’d have the most power and control that way.

A lot of your thoughts and comments don't make any sense. I don't know where you come up with some of your strange thoughts and ideas.

Both a lead-side golf swing and a dominate-side golf swing use both sides. One side is chosen to predominantly or chiefly swing the golf club. I really cannot imagine why this is not easily comprehended - especially since you claim to be "a pretty good ball striker", which I have a hard time believing.

Best of luck figuring things out... 😏

Edited March 22 by GreatStrike
orthography

Nels55 · March 22

39 minutes ago, Laaandry said:

I may be misunderstanding terms here since weight and pressure often get used interchangeably, but you can have pressure in the ball of your foot while the weight of the hip is back, right? Like if you were doing a wall sit and lifted your heel off the ground, the pressure would be at the front of your foot supporting your weight backwards.

Here's a pressure map that shows very little pressure goes into the trail heel. https://www.instagram.com/athletic_motion_golf/reel/C17DnnGP-lh/

I could be off base with this, but I certainly don't feel pressure into my trail heel, if I do, I get stuck. I instead feel a push of pressure into the ball of my trail foot before shifting back to the lead side.

Here is a pressure trace for a pro which I was told is typical of what is seen in good swings:

The pressure gets back towards the trail heel during the backswing. I believe this is due to the deep trail hip that is seen in good swings.

Nels55 · March 22

On 5/19/2020 at 5:40 AM, Golfbeat said:

I am curious how many people throw versus twist.

To answer the the original question: Yes! LOL I have done quite a lot of both and both types of swings have worked well for me for short periods of time. I seem to play better now days with more of a throw which is similar to the ideal mechanical advantage / straight line motion swing that I tried to use for a number of years.

virtuoso · March 22

2 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

Why do you believe he has a duty to respond to your questions?

Ignoring your questions is his prerogative and doing so doesn't make him rude or mean. Maybe he's busy with personal matters or his family and doesn't have time for others, especially people he doesn't even know. Dontcha think maybe?

He doesn’t have a duty to answer my questions but it just seems strange. I’m a fun guy to interact with, would you agree? He might have gotten mad because I made a few comments about things in his swing that I don’t like, but I was trying to help the guy. Nice way to show appreciation.

virtuoso · March 22

2 hours ago, johnrobison said:

Even the polite ones?

Especially the polite ones, which shows me he has a bit of a creepy demeanor.

virtuoso · March 22

@GreatStrike, here is the rude diva again. Does this look like a trail side domination or lead side domination?

golferdude54 · March 22

Mac O'Grady had this figured out decades ago. There is an angle between the left forearm and the clubshaft at address DTL that's somewhere between 120 and 150*. There is a position in MORAD called P8 that means clubshaft parallel to ground after impact.

The same angle between left forearm and clubshaft at P1 DTL will be the same angle at P8 in the FO view and it can't be achieved without the right hand going over the left before P8.

There are less than a handful of golfers who achieve this position and actually retain the same angle until their right arm is perpendicular to the ground, and they are Ben Hogan, Mickey Wright, Adam Scott, and Tiger (when he was with Haney hitting the irons).

cav5 · March 22

11 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

Mac O'Grady had this figured out decades ago. There is an angle between the left forearm and the clubshaft at address DTL that's somewhere between 120 and 150*. There is a position in MORAD called P8 that means clubshaft parallel to ground after impact.

The same angle between left forearm and clubshaft at P1 DTL will be the same angle at P8 in the FO view and it can't be achieved without the right hand going over the left before P8.

There are less than a handful of golfers who achieve this position and actually retain the same angle until their right arm is perpendicular to the ground, and they are Ben Hogan, Mickey Wright, Adam Scott, and Tiger (when he was with Haney hitting the irons).

I haven't really ever dug much into morad. I've always wondered about his speed though. Could he move it? His swing always looked to me like someone super smart that logically attempted to put 5 Lessons together without the hogan zing. Obviously a stud player.

GreatStrike · March 22

@virtuoso - Maybe this video will make things click for you.

Hopefully this video will make it clear to you that regardless whether you want to swing the golf club with primarily your lead side left arm using a centrifugal force (center-fleeing) rotational induced action or with primarily your trail side right arm using a centripetal force (center-seeking) right arm straightening induced action you definitely use both your arms. You just drive the left arm by straightening the right arm with a centripetal force (center-seeking) right arm dominant swing. It's only dominantly used - not solely used!

If you are right-side dominant, it naturally makes it much easier to maintain a prearranged right wrist bend to deliver a desired forward shaft lean angle through impact (for maximum compression of the golf ball) when using a centripetal force (center-seeking) right arm straightening induced action. Maintaining the right wrist bend also nicely delivers a square clubface and makes precisely contacting the sweet spot every swing quite easy - - unlike what typically happens when a right-side dominant golfer tries swinging using a lead-side centrifugal force (center-fleeing) rotational induced action. Normally what happens is the golfer makes an over-the-top move while casting the club in his attempt to throw the clubhead at the ball, along with an early release that breaks down the golfer's left wrist (flips) and is unable to deliver a square clubface. All easily solved with a dominate-side, centripetal force (center-seeking) right arm straightening induced action golf swing... 👍

Pay particular attention to the video from 3:20 onward... It's an ABSOLUTE MUST LEARN!

Edited March 22 by GreatStrike
orthography

virtuoso · March 22

2 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

@virtuoso - Maybe this video will make things click for you.

Hopefully this video will make it clear to you that regardless whether you want to swing the golf club with primarily your lead side left arm using a centrifugal force (center-fleeing) rotational induced action or with primarily your trail side right arm using a centripetal force (center-seeking) right arm straightening induced action you definitely use both your arms. You just drive the left arm by straightening the right arm with a centripetal force (center-seeking) right arm dominant swing. It's only dominantly used - not solely used!

If you are right-side dominant, it naturally makes it much easier to maintain a prearranged right wrist bend to deliver a desired forward shaft lean angle through impact (for maximum compression of the golf ball) when using a centripetal force (center-seeking) right arm straightening induced action. Maintaining the right wrist bend also nicely delivers a square clubface and makes precisely contacting the sweet spot every swing quite easy - - unlike what typically happens when a right-side dominant golfer tries swinging using a lead-side centrifugal force (center-fleeing) rotational induced action. Normally what happens is the golfer makes an over-the-top move while casting the club in his attempt to throw the clubhead at the ball, along with an early release that breaks down the golfer's left wrist (flips) and is unable to deliver a square clubface. All easily solved with a dominate-side, centripetal force (center-seeking) right arm straightening induced action golf swing... 👍

Ok, this is finally starting to make sense. It seemed pretty fuzzy the way you were explaining it before. I'll go out and try it and report back.

Edit, one more thing: I try to keep the right wrist bent all the way to P8 correct?...and if i do that, how much can I roll the wrists?

Edited March 22 by virtuoso

Soloman1 · March 22

17 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

especially since you claim to be "a pretty good ball striker", which I have a hard time believing.

oh my…

i still don’t understand why it’s either vanilla or chocolate. why can’t i have some of each?

virtuoso · March 22

17 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

A lot of your thoughts and comments don't make any sense. I don't know where you come up with some of your strange thoughts and ideas.

Both a lead-side golf swing and a dominate-side golf swing use both sides. One side is chosen to predominantly or chiefly swing the golf club. I really cannot imagine why this is not easily comprehended - especially since you claim to be "a pretty good ball striker", which I have a hard time believing.

Best of luck figuring things out... 😏

Well I'm pretty good but I'm trying to get better with your help and other people. Even though the rude youtube diva has a couple of swing issues I don't like, I still would like to copy a lot of those pieces of his swing. I asked him if wanted to be an online mentor to me and I'm just getting more radio silence. Maybe he's just really busy.

Edited March 22 by virtuoso

iacas · March 22

Just now, virtuoso said:

Well I'm pretty good but I'm trying to get better with your help and other people. Even though the rude youtube diva has a couple of swing issues I don't like, I still would like to copy a lot of those pieces of his swing. I asked him if wanted to be an online mentor to me and I'm getting just more radio silence. Maybe he's just really busy.

Probably too busy skipping reading a yellow-covered choose-your-own-adventure golf book.

virtuoso · March 22

@GreatStrike Update! The rude youtube diva gave me his phone number over pm. I'm going to call him and ask about which hand he dominates the swing with. I like his release but not his transition.

Edited March 22 by virtuoso

GreatStrike · March 22

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Ok, this is finally starting to make sense. It seemed pretty fuzzy the way you were explaining it before. I'll go out and try it and report back.

Edit, one more thing: I try to keep the right wrist bent all the way to P8 correct?...and if i do that, how much can I roll the wrists?

Fuzzy? It was very detailed...to the unth degree. I can't help that you couldn't comprehend it.

Make sure you have a good grip with right hand fingers securely on the club's grip. Your right hand's lifeline will be applying push out pressure onto the big knuckle of your left thumb. You'll find the prearranged right wrist bend is magic!

As you straighten the right arm with triceps like a piston while maintaining the right wrist bend you should experience a half roll of the right wrist/lower right forearm. You do not force this half roll to happen - it will happen naturally due to the straightening right arm driving the two arms/club structure through impact. For the downswing - don't be too quick to make the right arm straighten. Think slow and heavy rather than quick and fast. Think of the process like its a flywheel of sorts, which takes a bit of time to get its momentum going.

The direction you extend your right arm must be almost straight out in front of your chest, slightly toward the ground, not toward the target. Trying to swing the right arm toward the target is naturally intuitive, however it destroys the swing. What needs to be done is counter-intuitive - extend your right arm almost straight out in front of your chest, slightly toward the ground. A right-side dominant golf swing with the right arm extending drives the arms/club structure in a curved motion arc that will swing the clubhead perfectly toward the ball and the target in its circular curved motion arc without any manipulation on your part.

GreatStrike · March 22

8 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

@GreatStrike Update! The rude youtube diva gave me his phone number over pm. I'm going to call him and ask about which hand he dominates the swing with. I like his release but not his transition.

Poor fellow! 🤐

ShimJoonW · March 22

The amount of work is preserved

Work is conserved within a system; this is a law of physics

It will be preserved as long as it is not released to the outside system

The centripetal force is not released to the outside and creates momentum three times

This means that 'skip the rock' must be made with the right hand

Right hand must be the pivot through out the entire swing

Nels55 · March 22

20 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

especially since you claim to be "a pretty good ball striker", which I have a hard time believing.

This does not look like a a pretty good ball striker?

virtuoso · March 22

2 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

Poor fellow! 🤐

yeah, well I called the number he gave me and it was the support line for Golftec. Stupidly, it didn't even occur to me that 877 area code is a toll free code. It only occurred to me when I heard the voice on the other line....but the dude hadn't given me his real name either, so as a reflex, I asked for the youtube diva....and just got stunned silence. After a pause, the voice shakily told me i had the wrong number. This guy is a real beauty.

virtuoso · March 22

3 hours ago, GreatStrike said:

Fuzzy? It was very detailed...to the unth degree. I can't help that you couldn't comprehend it.

Make sure you have a good grip with right hand fingers securely on the club's grip. Your right hand's lifeline will be applying push out pressure onto the big knuckle of your left thumb. You'll find the prearranged right wrist bend is magic!

As you straighten the right arm with triceps like a piston while maintaining the right wrist bend you should experience a half roll of the right wrist/lower right forearm. You do not force this half roll to happen - it will happen naturally due to the straightening right arm driving the two arms/club structure through impact. For the downswing - don't be too quick to make the right arm straighten. Think slow and heavy rather than quick and fast. Think of the process like its a flywheel of sorts, which takes a bit of time to get its momentum going.

The direction you extend your right arm must be almost straight out in front of your chest, slightly toward the ground, not toward the target. Trying to swing the right arm toward the target is naturally intuitive, however it destroys the swing. What needs to be done is counter-intuitive - extend your right arm almost straight out in front of your chest, slightly toward the ground. A right-side dominant golf swing with the right arm extending drives the arms/club structure in a curved motion arc that will swing the clubhead perfectly toward the ball and the target in its circular curved motion arc without any manipulation on your part.

Ok, this explanation seemed much better. I actually have an idea of what you mean now. I'm not saying my reading comprehension is world class either, but your earlier explanations seemed slightly vague to me. But really good job on this last one. But I'm still unclear on one thing. What are the hips doing? Presumably they are sliding toward the target as my right arm pushes the club away from my chest and down toward the ground. Or are the hips rotating toward the target?

Edited March 22 by virtuoso

GreatStrike · March 22

11 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

yeah, well I called the number he gave me and it was the support line for Golftec. Stupidly, it didn't even occur to me that 877 area code is a toll free code. It only occurred to me when I heard the voice on the other line....but the dude hadn't given me his real name either, so as a reflex, I asked for the youtube diva....and just got stunned silence. After a pause, the voice shakily told me i had the wrong number. This guy is a real beauty.

Haha, that's actually pretty funny!

I strongly suspect he feels the same about you!

GreatStrike · March 22

4 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Ok, this explanation seemed much better. I actually have an idea of what you mean now. I'm not saying my reading comprehension is world class either, but your earlier screeds seemed slightly vague to me. But really good job on this last one. But I'm still unclear on one thing. What are the hips doing? Presumably they are sliding toward the target as my right arm pushes the club away from my chest and down toward the ground. Or are the hips rotating toward the target?

Oh, thanks for the writing quality approval!

I don't mean to be vague, but just swing the damn club! The hips will figure out what to do - like happens when you take a walk. Geez.

I know why your YouTube diva buddy gave you Golftec's phone number. I'm not so sure you do...

Best of luck in your search for information...

iacas · March 23

54 minutes ago, ShimJoonW said:

The amount of work is preserved

Work is conserved within a system; this is a law of physics

Work is not conserved, no. Nor would it make sense, as "conserved" means "remains constant." So… since you start at setup doing basically no work, you'd have to "continue" to do no work if "work" was "conserved."

Energy can be conserved, but the human body is not a closed system: within the system, muscles can create forces/energy. Outside of the system, gravity, air resistance, and friction all play a role.

Energy is not "conserved" (kept at a constant), nor is angular momentum, etc. in the golf swing, either, as muscles are continually acting.

virtuoso · March 23

7 minutes ago, GreatStrike said:

Oh, thanks for the writing quality approval!

I don't mean to be vague, but just swing the damn club! The hips will figure out what to do - like happens when you take a walk. Geez.

I know why your YouTube diva buddy gave you Golftec's phone number. I'm not so sure you do...

Best of luck in your search for information...

How would you know that? You mean why it was Golftec versus some other wrong number? Because of what they teach? I think they teach a very stacked backswing, and then pressure left, no?

Nels55 · March 23

37 minutes ago, GreatStrike said:

The hips will figure out what to do - like happens when you take a walk. Geez.

Unfortunately that does not happen for all golfers actually most golfers if you ask someone who teaches all day. Anyway I know from personal experience.

Nels55 · March 23

40 minutes ago, GreatStrike said:

I know why your YouTube diva buddy gave you Golftec's phone number. I'm not so sure you do...

You do understand that diva and virtuoso are the same person?

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