The lumpy doughnut

[MaddMaxx]

I dont remember where I read this but a Pelz-like someone wrote that the golf hole can become a lumpy doughnut.

As people walk around the hole it eventually becomes raised, think volcano. I notice at my course that a lot of putts that are trying to die into the hole will veer wide about 2 or 3 inches from the hole. Heartbreaking. Is this something you have experienced? Is it possibly the result of poor hole cutting? People walking to close to the hole? I am playing early tomorrow so I will see if it could be traffic related.

Of course hitting firm putts is the answer but putting from 10+ feet and seeing this happen is a killer.

 

Thanks

[teejaywhy]

It's golf.

 

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, MaddMaxx said:

I dont remember where I read this but a Pelz-like someone wrote that the golf hole can become a lumpy doughnut.

As people walk around the hole it eventually becomes raised, think volcano. I notice at my course that a lot of putts that are trying to die into the hole will veer wide about 2 or 3 inches from the hole. Heartbreaking. Is this something you have experienced? Is it possibly the result of poor hole cutting? People walking to close to the hole? I am playing early tomorrow so I will see if it could be traffic related.

Of course hitting firm putts is the answer but putting from 10+ feet and seeing this happen is a killer.

 

Thanks

 

Actually I think it WAS Pelz who coined the term.

 

I try not to think about that sort of thing too much but there ARE some putts on relatively flat ground that seem to go either way at the hole. I mostly attribute that sort of thing to the hole being cut right on an almost(?) indiscernible ridge by someone placing holes who isn't all that experienced and my bad luck of putting from right along that ridge.

 

Then again, maybe it has been that lumpy doughnut all along ???

[dlygrisse]

Read Pelz’s putting bible. It’s been years since Ive read it but he addresses it all there. 

[Dess]

Pelz does indeed discuss this in his putting bible.  I firmly believe in it.  The two issues are essentially, 1. not properly rolling the green after a new cup has been installed leading to some degree of mounding. 2. more importantly, is everyone walking on the 2 feet diameter of the whole to retrieve their ball leading to depression of this area.

 

I can't count how many times my ball has taken a drastic turn at the hole.       on line...still on line...speed looks good....ball moves off line in the last foot....WTF!        This cannot ALL be due to natural break and ball speed.  Can it?

[nitram]

Think about how much traffic is around the hole. Now add in all the foot draggers, putter leaners, and temper tantrumers and you start to realize how it can be a little rough around the edges of the hole. Pelz says the key to defeating the LD is to putt at a pace that will have the ball come to rest about a foot and a half from the hole (if you miss).

[James the Hogan Fan]

So there are two things at play here. 

1. When the hole is cut, the hole cutter pulls up everything with it and makes a bump. Ideally when the hole liner is set, the maintenance guy will use a setter which also depresses the ground around the hole. 

2. Everyone knows not to step on the lip of the hole. What they do then is step about 6"-1ft away. So this makes the ground 6-12" from the hole a little compacted and settles a little bit. 

 

Combine 1 and 2 and you have your lumpy donut.

[dlygrisse]

On 9/2/2020 at 9:32 AM, Moonlightgrm said:

1 hour ago, nitram said:

Think about how much traffic is around the hole. Now add in all the foot draggers, putter leaners, and temper tantrumers and you start to realize how it can be a little rough around the edges of the hole. Pelz says the key to defeating the LD is to putt at a pace that will have the ball come to rest about a foot and a half from the hole (if you miss).

17” to be exact. ?

 

the other key takeaway is that sometimes good putts don’t go in. When the OP says it’s heartbreaking it explains the gist of the problem. Accept the fact it didn’t go in and move on. Sometimes a good putt misses, sometimes a bad putt goes in, we are playing on grass, not a perfect pool table, the main goal is to take no more than 2 putts. Also on a short uphill-ish putt you can give it a little more speed. 

[caniac6]

Play early

[smashdn]

On 9/5/2020 at 1:02 PM, James the Hogan Fan said:

So there are two things at play here. 

1. When the hole is cut, the hole cutter pulls up everything with it and makes a bump. Ideally when the hole liner is set, the maintenance guy will use a setter which also depresses the ground around the hole. 

2. Everyone knows not to step on the lip of the hole. What they do then is step about 6"-1ft away. So this makes the ground 6-12" from the hole a little compacted and settles a little bit. 

 

Combine 1 and 2 and you have your lumpy donut.

 

And to a lesser degree but still some impact, people not getting the flag out of the hole smoothly.  It will pull the cup liner up a smidge and the lip will raise ever so slightly.  When replacing the flagstick (not a problem in this Covid era) I always make sure to ram her home to ensure the liner and flagstick are seated.

[Nels55]

I notice the lumpy doughnut effect quite often.  The wetter the greens are and the busier the day the worse it gets.  We recently got a green roller and there is a huge difference putting immediately after the greens have been rolled vs. putting 6 days later.  Also putting immediately after the holes have been cut is noticeably better then putting after the holes have been in the same place for a number of days.  It does get a bit frustrating watching well struck putts turn away at the hole but that's life! 

[Warrior42111]

haven't noticed it too much down here, perhaps a bigger issue on bent vs Bermuda?

 

Needless to say, I now know what to call my golf partners and their mothers.? 

[vallygolf]

Mostly a non issue in dry Arizona.  I dont think I have ever noticed this being a problem, but most of the courses I play move the flag daily.

[nsxguy]

9 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I notice the lumpy doughnut effect quite often.  The wetter the greens are and the busier the day the worse it gets.  We recently got a green roller and there is a huge difference putting immediately after the greens have been rolled vs. putting 6 days later.  Also putting immediately after the holes have been cut is noticeably better then putting after the holes have been in the same place for a number of days.  It does get a bit frustrating watching well struck putts turn away at the hole but that's life! 

 

Is that true ? Holes are in the same place for days ?

 

Even that dump I used to play up in NYC that we (not-so) affectionately called "The Pit" moved them every day.

[MaddMaxx]

I havent seen the holes being cut at my course but I doubt the guys who do it would care or much less know anything about it.

What is the proper way that a hole is cut? Is rolling or some other method used at top courses?

[Nels55]

8 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Is that true ? Holes are in the same place for days ?

 

Even that dump I used to play up in NYC that we (not-so) affectionately called "The Pit" moved them every day.

Yes, it is true.  I played Saturday and the holes were cut that morning.  Wednesday when I played the pins were still in the same spots.  I did not know that any course cut new pins every day.  LOL the previous pins were all cut in nasty places on edge of a slope, on a slope or in the far corners.  They were pretty fair on Saturday.  The greens are really small so maybe that has something to do with it.  Also the watering seems really random as sometimes one green will be soaking wet and the next one dry as brick.  Makes it a bit hard to judge how the ball will react on approach and short game shots.  Such is life!

[caniac6]

Yesterday at our course there was a Sr. Inter Club match, plus 165 other players. Not only were the holes not moved, but the greens were not mowed or rolled after a busy weekend. The fairways are not being mowed often enough,and as a result, they are scalping in some places, and the overall quality of cut is bad. Our super is inexperienced, and he has allowed the course to get away from him.

[smashdn]

I pass by a course on my way to work.  The holes are getting changed every 2-3 days during the week.  They may cut them every day on the weekend though.

 

I played in a league at a course on Tuesday.  They must have had a set pattern as the holes were nearly always cut in the same locations every time we played.  It was a rarity that they were not in their "normal" quadrant of the green.