Want to try a more forgiving iron: sell the 921 Forged and start over with better shafts/heads? Which ones?

[RoyalMustang]

OK, so I have been playing a set of MMC MP20s w/DG X100 120g shafts since I started playing in July.  They seem fine, but I still wouldn't mind getting something with more mis-hit forgiveness; I am not a 2 HDCP or anything like that. I don't need "distance" as my 8-iron (pictured here) is a solid 165-170.  My friend plays the same iron and I can't help but think that if he is a 3.5 HDCP, I should be in something more forgiving. 

 

I bought a set of 921 Forged here (with LZ 6.0 shafts) and the setup is not working for me.  I bet it is the shaft though, not the heads.; they just feel super soft and vague.  It is difficult to find the right shaft and head combo. I wouldn't mind trying any sort of other slightly more forgiving player's iron, such as Titleist AP3, Srixon 585, Ping i210, in addition to the 921 Forged.  I have tried the i210 before but it had the super light Ping shaft, which didn't work.  Of these, which would you choose? 

 

I just don't know what shaft is suitable.  Stiff or X-stiff?  weight needs to be 120-130; I do know that.  Shafts that I have liked: Modus 130X, X100 120g DG, S400 (on my wedges), PX 6.0.  it is hard to get a feel in a fitting unfortunately and the best way to find out is likely to just buy a used set and see what I like: 

 

At this point, I have 2 options: get the 921 Forged re-shafted as an experiment, or buy and sell another set here with a shaft that may work in a similar "forgiving player's iron).  

 

Here is where my swing is at (yes, I know about my rear foot: working on it!)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrX-wu45qBM

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by RoyalMustang

[VCGolfer79]

I was messing around at Roger Dunn yesterday hitting the 921’s. I play X100 in my MP4’s. I wanted to try the PX 6.5 but all they had were the LZ version. I tried it and was hitting high ballooning shots to the right with a lot of spin. I put an X100 in and had 10 more yards online with less spin. I don’t get along with the LZ and it sounds like you don’t either. I would reshaft the 921 forged or sell them and buy a new set if that is the best route money wise. 

[VCGolfer79]

Just watched your swing. It’s steep like mine is. I don’t think the LZ is designed for us. Ditch them ASAP. Try and get your hands on the Mizuno Optimizer if you can and go from there. 

[RoyalMustang]

9 minutes ago, VCGolfer79 said:

I was messing around at Roger Dunn yesterday hitting the 921’s. I play X100 in my MP4’s. I wanted to try the PX 6.5 but all they had were the LZ version. I tried it and was hitting high ballooning shots to the right with a lot of spin. I put an X100 in and had 10 more yards online with less spin. I don’t get along with the LZ and it sounds like you don’t either. I would reshaft the 921 forged or sell them and buy a new set if that is the best route money wise. 

 

Cool, thanks!  Yeah, I am thinking about just selling the 921 Forged and buying a similar set with better shafts here.  Re-shafting won't be cheap, even with used shafts, although I could spec one with just a PX 6.0 and see how it goes. 

[RoyalMustang]

8 minutes ago, VCGolfer79 said:

Just watched your swing. It’s steep like mine is. I don’t think the LZ is designed for us. Ditch them ASAP. Try and get your hands on the Mizuno Optimizer if you can and go from there. 

 

Yeah, and I have been working on flattening it!  You should have seen how steep it was before. I just don't have good torso mobility; I hold a ton of muscle tension.  You can even see it in my traps and the way I hold my shoulders; everything is just rock hard and doesn't help my swing.  My power comes from my legs but I am working on becoming more fluid.  

 

Any shaft recommendations for swings like mine? 

Edited December 30, 2020 by RoyalMustang

[Golfer from MO]

LZ completely wrong shaft for that swing. You need tour v 125 shafts in an S or tour v std 120x soft stepped. But 125 tour hard to find. Reshaft is best option since 921 forged are excellent. 

Another shaft that could work is too is c taper 125

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

Are you actually experiencing occasions where you think, „if I had had a little more forgiveness now, that shot would have been on the green“ or such? The MMC‘s allegedly aren’t too hard to hit, and judging by that one swing, you could just be thinking you need more help...or has that ship sailed?

[RoyalMustang]

1 hour ago, Golfer from MO said:

LZ completely wrong shaft for that swing. You need tour v 125 shafts in an S or tour v std 120x soft stepped. But 125 tour hard to find. Reshaft is best option since 921 forged are excellent. 

Another shaft that could work is too is c taper 125

 

Awesome, thanks!  My local club builder guy has a C-taper 125 S+ that he just pulled: he will sell and install them for me for $30/club.  After the holiday, I will see if I can get him to set up one club. 

7 minutes ago, LukeDonaldsTiger said:

Are you actually experiencing occasions where you think, „if I had had a little more forgiveness now, that shot would have been on the green“ or such? The MMC‘s allegedly aren’t too hard to hit, and judging by that one swing, you could just be thinking you need more help...or has that ship sailed?

 

I am working on my swing (flattening it, staying back on my rear foot longer) but there is nothing wrong with the MMC. I have had stretches were I was hitting nearly every green in regulation, and I have had some great long-iron swings with the MMC.  Maybe I am just bored; it is fun to try new gear and you don't know what works and what doesn't until you try new stuff (same with working on a swing-my ah-ha moment recently was focusing on shoulder instead of hip rotation).  I wouldn't sell the MMCs unless something was a lot more forgiving.  I tried a set of Apex CF19s for nearly a month and while they had more forgiveness, they were also super duper strong lofted and somewhat erratic in terms of distance.  A marginal miss was still 175 but a really good one could fly 200.  I often get a thin toe miss and I wouldn't mind a little help there: who wouldn't? 

 

My biggest issue with my swing is either getting too steep and still on the back foot (super fat shot) or not getting that right elbow pulled through, resulting in a draw to hook (more of a tempo issue).  

[mrfols]

I'm looking for this exact setup, if you decide to sell, PM Me.  Good luck!

 

[tbone18]

I would look for a authorized Mizuno fitter that has their Optimizer fitting tool.  This will give the top 3 shafts that fit your swing DNA.  Plus u can test that shaft in the 921 head.

[VCGolfer79]

I think the PX 6.5 would work with the kind of swing. 

[dhen9]

What am I missing that by watching a video of one swing the Forum can tell a dude that the shaft is wrong? I'm curious as I just ordered a set of P790 with LZ 6.0 (120) but soft stepped once for a mid 90 MPH driver SS with moderate to quick transition. 

[Old Tom Morris]

1 hour ago, dhen9 said:

What am I missing that by watching a video of one swing the Forum can tell a dude that the shaft is wrong? I'm curious as I just ordered a set of P790 with LZ 6.0 (120) but soft stepped once for a mid 90 MPH driver SS with moderate to quick transition. 

This whole thread is insane.  Just started playing July, but in less than six months he hits every green in regulation but is dissatisfied with his irons?

[noodle3872]

2 hours ago, Old Tom Morris said:

This whole thread is insane.  Just started playing July, but in less than six months he hits every green in regulation but is dissatisfied with his irons?

This is GolfWRX after all. A place where a member can seek a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. 

[RoyalMustang]

10 hours ago, Old Tom Morris said:

This whole thread is insane.  Just started playing July, but in less than six months he hits every green in regulation but is dissatisfied with his irons?

 

I can "nearly" if I get on a hot streak; my best is 14/18 but that is on a short par 60.  More likely I have rounds like last week, where I hit 3/18.  Trying to find more consistency.  Clubs are maybe 10% of the issue I bet; obviously I am working on my swing but would like to find the right shaft setup too. 

[RoyalMustang]

7 hours ago, noodle3872 said:

This is GolfWRX after all. A place where a member can seek a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. 

 

Especially when on Christmas Break, hanging out on the computer!  I don't view it solutions seeking a problem as much as building a knowledge base with future value. I bet a very good clubbuilder and a very good coach would both have this reservoir of knowledge, partially gained from personal experience (which is the best kind-it stays with you). 

[bvanlieu]

OP, if you really are curious if you are mis fit then spend the time and money at a good fitter and get data with the 921 there. Its a new club it will be on the fitting carts I would bet.

 

Handicap really has little basis of what you should play and being sub 10 there is a wide range of clubs folks in that skillset can make work. The forgiveness here is measurable from ball speed and other things but on the course typically is 1 or 2 strikes a round where a bit extra carry may or may not help you. You still can 3 roll it, so work the short game.

I can honestly say if I gamed blades my cap would not explode...just the same as if I gamed some GIs it would not go down 4 shots either. If the club felt bad and I could not time it well, doesn't matter what type of metal is on the end its going to not go well for me. 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by bvanlieu

[BCULAW]

Keep an open mind about forgiveness. It can mean different things to different people. 
 

I’ve played blades most of my golfing life, and occasionally get an itch to hit something more forgiving. I’ve tried a bunch. Always go back to the Ping G series. If you want a forgiving head, no one does it better than Ping, IMO. The G410s sound loud and feel “hard” indoors, but they are a joy to hit on the course. Soft, satisfying feel/sound, and awesome, consistent performance. If I stray from blades again, that’s where I will go. 
 

That said, I found my “forgiveness” in a different shaft. I’m a former pro baseball player. I can still move the club at age 46. Play Smoke 6.5 in the driver, and have mostly played KBS Tour 130x in the irons and wedges because that is what the optimizer puts me in and I play decent golf with them. Like you, my most recent set had PX LZ 6.0s. They felt dead and unresponsive. 
 

Back in July, I sold a bunch of stuff to buy a new set of irons. The only irons I kept were old, beat up MP32s with DGR400 regular flex shafts. I took them out and shot even par for 18 holes. It was the first time I shot par or better in roughly 5 years. Next round was another low score (for me). Over the next several weeks, I shot even par 3 times, was under par in 2 partial rounds (ended due to darkness) and my high score was +4. The regular flex shafts allowed me to hit shots and manage my iron game with ease. I actually picked up distance - hitting smooth, high, 200-210 yard with that blades 4 iron in Florida at sea level became the new norm.  I’ve been playing regular flex shafts in my irons since. Every time I think of going back to a stiffer set (like the LZs), the regulars win out. 
 

I “fit” into the KBS Tour 130s, but the heavy weight, regular flex shafts are definitely the better gamers for me. 

 

Point is, keep an open mind. Regular flex may not be right for you, but you might really enjoy something you might otherwise not consider if you don’t try it. Try a bunch of shafts and heads outdoors with good balls, if possible. The one that feels the best and gives consistent, easy results is usually the right one for the irons, IMO. 

[RoyalMustang]

17 minutes ago, BCULAW said:

Keep an open mind about forgiveness. It can mean different things to different people. 
 

I’ve played blades most of my golfing life, and occasionally get an itch to hit something more forgiving. I’ve tried a bunch. Always go back to the Ping G series. If you want a forgiving head, no one does it better than Ping, IMO. The G410s sound loud and feel “hard” indoors, but they are a joy to hit on the course. Soft, satisfying feel/sound, and awesome, consistent performance. If I stray from blades again, that’s where I will go. 
 

That said, I found my “forgiveness” in a different shaft. I’m a former pro baseball player. I can still move the club at age 46. Play Smoke 6.5 in the driver, and have mostly played KBS Tour 130x in the irons and wedges because that is what the optimizer puts me in and I play decent golf with them. Like you, my most recent set had PX LZ 6.0s. They felt dead and unresponsive. 
 

Back in July, I sold a bunch of stuff to buy a new set of irons. The only irons I kept were old, beat up MP32s with DGR400 regular flex shafts. I took them out and shot even par for 18 holes. It was the first time I shot par or better in roughly 5 years. Next round was another low score (for me). Over the next several weeks, I shot even par 3 times, was under par in 2 partial rounds (ended due to darkness) and my high score was +4. The regular flex shafts allowed me to hit shots and manage my iron game with ease. I actually picked up distance - hitting smooth, high, 200-210 yard with that blades 4 iron in Florida at sea level became the new norm.  I’ve been playing regular flex shafts in my irons since. Every time I think of going back to a stiffer set (like the LZs), the regulars win out. 
 

I “fit” into the KBS Tour 130s, but the heavy weight, regular flex shafts are definitely the better gamers for me. 

 

Point is, keep an open mind. Regular flex may not be right for you, but you might really enjoy something you might otherwise not consider if you don’t try it. Try a bunch of shafts and heads outdoors with good balls, if possible. The one that feels the best and gives consistent, easy results is usually the right one for the irons, IMO. 

 

Great point!  I play 70TX in my driver after having tried a bunch of things: it just works for me, so I can see your point.  I should do exactly what you describe: just because something works on paper doesn't mean it works in real life.  My wife is getting new clubs soon and plays regular flex; I will try to go with her to the fitting session. 

[yawossel]

I also have a tendency to be steep and have benefited from two things.

 

Lighter and/or softer shafts + more forgiving club heads (Ping i210s from Mizuno MP-18). I won't bore you with the benefits I've found from this but I played the best golf of my life after making these equipment changes early in the season.

 

Go figure out what works for you and ABSOLUTELY DO NOT EVER let a club fitter talk you into a product with out ruling out all sides of the spectrum. My driver SS is 115ish and I've tried regular high launch shafts in fitting sessions just to definitely know that those definitely don't work for me. Who knows you might find a really good feel in a set of game improvement irons with graphite shafts. To me, enjoying the game is way more important that looking really cool with a set that came off a tour truck......

 

That said, if you can enjoy the game and look really cool with a tour truck set then go nuts!!

[Tree Levino]

 You’ve got a pretty good swing for how long you’ve been playing. Very arm dominant though and hate to be cliche but spending club money on lessons with a pro is a much better investment. As someone that started playing 3 years ago and is now a plus cap I can tell you, I wish I’d started working with my current pro sooner. My swing is so much more efficient and consistent now. I’ve gone through a ton of clubs/shafts/everything and nothing really made a difference in the end. You might get some confidence from an equipment change for a round or two but it won’t last. 
 

I don’t mean to sound condescending at all but worrying about irons like this is really pointless. I know because I thought things were too light, too flexible, too stiff, wrong sole etc and inevitably with small technique adjustments I could use anything. Hell, at the end of the season I picked up some z forged in KBs 120s (not optimal for my 100mph 7i swing) at an inch over length (didn’t realize) and a bit upright and I shot even par with them first round out without hitting the range first. 6 months prior I would’ve struggled and then blamed the clubs. Equipment obviously matters, but it’s all about dialling in intricacies rather than making massive differences in your game. Realistically, iron forgiveness isn’t much of a thing IMO. Just loft jacking makes us think X club is more helpful than Y. Personally, I don’t like the wider soled mizunos as they’re low bounce and a bit diggy. I also like clubs with truer lofts/spin models as it’s a better baseline to see what is working with your swing improvement. If you’re going to change I’d grab some i210 with x100 and just work like hell on your game. I think x100 is by far the most neutral shaft I’ve ever tried and works in every head I’ve ever used it in. 
 

after working with my coach a bit this summer I went from low to mid 70s to being able to shoot in the 60s with some reasonable consistency from 7k yards. As someone who has ho’d more than most, it’s the lessons that really show what works. 

[RoyalMustang]

52 minutes ago, TigerInTheWoods said:

 You’ve got a pretty good swing for how long you’ve been playing. Very arm dominant though and hate to be cliche but spending club money on lessons with a pro is a much better investment. As someone that started playing 3 years ago and is now a plus cap I can tell you, I wish I’d started working with my current pro sooner. My swing is so much more efficient and consistent now. I’ve gone through a ton of clubs/shafts/everything and nothing really made a difference in the end. You might get some confidence from an equipment change for a round or two but it won’t last. 
 

I don’t mean to sound condescending at all but worrying about irons like this is really pointless. I know because I thought things were too light, too flexible, too stiff, wrong sole etc and inevitably with small technique adjustments I could use anything. Hell, at the end of the season I picked up some z forged in KBs 120s (not optimal for my 100mph 7i swing) at an inch over length (didn’t realize) and a bit upright and I shot even par with them first round out without hitting the range first. 6 months prior I would’ve struggled and then blamed the clubs. Equipment obviously matters, but it’s all about dialling in intricacies rather than making massive differences in your game. Realistically, iron forgiveness isn’t much of a thing IMO. Just loft jacking makes us think X club is more helpful than Y. Personally, I don’t like the wider soled mizunos as they’re low bounce and a bit diggy. I also like clubs with truer lofts/spin models as it’s a better baseline to see what is working with your swing improvement. If you’re going to change I’d grab some i210 with x100 and just work like hell on your game. I think x100 is by far the most neutral shaft I’ve ever tried and works in every head I’ve ever used it in. 
 

after working with my coach a bit this summer I went from low to mid 70s to being able to shoot in the 60s with some reasonable consistency from 7k yards. As someone who has ho’d more than most, it’s the lessons that really show what works. 

 

I have been working with a coach: 5 lessons thus far. It is slowly helping, but I tend to fall back into old habits.  He knows what he is talking about but improving is harder than it looks! I try not to make my swing arm dominant but my lack of flexibility really inhibits my options.  Just loading and letting the core uncork is the ideal but easier said than done. You should have seen me before: this is a big improvement. 

 

How do I go about further making my swing less arm dominant?  More rotation and uncorking, or something else? 

 

I won't be spending any money though: they will primarily be through trades here.  I wouldn't dream of spending upwards of $1k on a set of clubs without getting my swing dialed 1st. 

Edited December 31, 2020 by RoyalMustang

[RoyalMustang]

3 hours ago, yawossel said:

I also have a tendency to be steep and have benefited from two things.

 

Lighter and/or softer shafts + more forgiving club heads (Ping i210s from Mizuno MP-18). I won't bore you with the benefits I've found from this but I played the best golf of my life after making these equipment changes early in the season.

 

Go figure out what works for you and ABSOLUTELY DO NOT EVER let a club fitter talk you into a product with out ruling out all sides of the spectrum. My driver SS is 115ish and I've tried regular high launch shafts in fitting sessions just to definitely know that those definitely don't work for me. Who knows you might find a really good feel in a set of game improvement irons with graphite shafts. To me, enjoying the game is way more important that looking really cool with a set that came off a tour truck......

 

That said, if you can enjoy the game and look really cool with a tour truck set then go nuts!!

 

Thanks!  I did try lighter/softer shafts with GI irons: both i210 and Apex CF19, bought here, both with 100g shafts. neither worked well: the heavier shaft tempers my weird tempo somewhat. I know it is something to work on. I am aware of that weakness. I should be able to step up to any ball, with any club, and make it work.