Ksig vs Top Flite Gamer

[North Butte]

15 minutes ago, Girevik said:

I'm just looking for a good, balanced ball.  My concern around the Kirkland was the reported loss of distance, so if I could find a ball that provides more distance without sacrificing too much in other areas, that would be great.   But from what I'm hearing any ball in this price range would be a modest distance gain for a major loss in greenside spin.

 

But, on the other hand, if there was a ball with comparable distance but with an advantage in some other area, maybe it flew straighter off the driver, I'd consider that as well. 

I always say it's rare to find a ball that's longer but occasionally there's one that's shorter! Partly in jest but mostly seriously.

 

For my game (drive it a little over 200 yards, hit a 6-iron or strong-lofted 7-iron from 150, double-digit handicap) it seems like most balls fit into a pretty narrow range of distances. The really low spin ones do fly slightly farther off the irons but don't go any farther off the driver. The only ball I've tried that legitimately was longer on both driver and irons was AVX but the extra driver distance was mostly rollout and tended to disappear when conditions were not firm-and-fast.

 

But I have seen a few that were notably short. The old Precept "laddie" ball that was briefly a cult favorite was terribly short for me. Ridiculously short. Never could figure that one out. The early generation Pro V1x (circa 2004 maybe?) hit knuckleballs that just fell out of the sky. And couple random 2pc cheapies I've tried were a full club or so worse than my usual distance.

 

Bottom line, I long ago gave up on finding extra distance from a "distance" golf ball. There are some of the super-low-spin ones that will run out a ton on iron shots but it's not useful distance to see a well struck 8-iron bounce and roll 40 feet forward instead of stopping. If a ball goes the same old 200 yards off my driver, the same old 150-something off my 6-iron and then runs out to 140 yards with an 8-iron it's not longer, just harder to play.

 

And I have never seen one iota of extra straightness from a "straight" golf ball. Back when the original e6 came out I tried for all the world to see that "straight" flight but I hit my usual mix of shot shapes just like I do with any other ball, including Tour urethane balls. I've never really had a severe 40-yard hook or 30-yard slice though. Most of my misses are push-fades or OTT pulls. So maybe someone seeing the ball bend miles sideways through the air might have a different take on that.

[wantacigar]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

I always say it's rare to find a ball that's longer but occasionally there's one that's shorter! Partly in jest but mostly seriously.

 

For my game (drive it a little over 200 yards, hit a 6-iron or strong-lofted 7-iron from 150, double-digit handicap) it seems like most balls fit into a pretty narrow range of distances. The really low spin ones do fly slightly farther off the irons but don't go any farther off the driver. The only ball I've tried that legitimately was longer on both driver and irons was AVX but the extra driver distance was mostly rollout and tended to disappear when conditions were not firm-and-fast.

 

But I have seen a few that were notably short. The old Precept "laddie" ball that was briefly a cult favorite was terribly short for me. Ridiculously short. Never could figure that one out. The early generation Pro V1x (circa 2004 maybe?) hit knuckleballs that just fell out of the sky. And couple random 2pc cheapies I've tried were a full club or so worse than my usual distance.

 

Bottom line, I long ago gave up on finding extra distance from a "distance" golf ball. There are some of the super-low-spin ones that will run out a ton on iron shots but it's not useful distance to see a well struck 8-iron bounce and roll 40 feet forward instead of stopping. If a ball goes the same old 200 yards off my driver, the same old 150-something off my 6-iron and then runs out to 140 yards with an 8-iron it's not longer, just harder to play.

 

And I have never seen one iota of extra straightness from a "straight" golf ball. Back when the original e6 came out I tried for all the world to see that "straight" flight but I hit my usual mix of shot shapes just like I do with any other ball, including Tour urethane balls. I've never really had a severe 40-yard hook or 30-yard slice though. Most of my misses are push-fades or OTT pulls. So maybe someone seeing the ball bend miles sideways through the air might have a different take on that.

 

Better put than my rambling post. 😆  

 

[AcesAndHoles]

Sounds like it's in your ballpark, pun intended. It's $25 for 24 balls... I've spent a lot more money on much dumber things. 

[phizzy30]

On 4/11/2021 at 8:15 PM, Girevik said:

Have you tied the new V2 ball that came out late last fall?   Seems folks are reporting it's longer than its predecessor. 

I totally mistook your post.  I thought you meant the Top Flite Gamer.  I just realized you were talking about the Kirks.   Yes, my cousin did get a box of them and let me try a sleeve a couple months back.  I wasn't impressed.  Distance did improve for me, but it was insignificant.  It's pretty solid though in every other category.  When a golf ball leaves 10+yards on the table and I have to club up with irons, it's a turn off for me. 

[Girevik]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

I totally mistook your post.  I thought you meant the Top Flite Gamer.  I just realized you were talking about the Kirks.   Yes, my cousin did get a box of them and let me try a sleeve a couple months back.  I wasn't impressed.  Distance did improve for me, but it was insignificant.  It's pretty solid though in every other category.  When a golf ball leaves 10+yards on the table and I have to club up with irons, it's a turn off for me. 

What is your typical driver distance?

 

In my case I wouldn't know if the 10 yards was because of the ball or just my not catching it quite right.  I'm not sure 10 yards off a the driver is enough to be a deal killer for me.

[North Butte]

5 minutes ago, Girevik said:

What is your typical driver distance?

 

In my case I wouldn't know if the 10 yards was because of the ball or just my not catching it quite right.  I'm not sure 10 yards off a the driver is enough to be a deal killer for me.

When I had my brief fling with the Titleist AVX it was during a period of keeping detailed shot-by-shot stats on my game. I was pretty sure that over the course of a dozen or so rounds the AVX was right around 15 yards longer off the tee than the higher spin, higher trajectory ball I'd been playing before.

 

That's certainly enough distance to eventually impact my scoring opportunities. But it was just barely enough to notice in terms of just ended up closer to the hole than I expect, etc. Anything of 10 yards or less would be impossible for me to say for sure without extensive stat-keeping.

Edited April 14, 2021 by North Butte

[phizzy30]

15 minutes ago, Girevik said:

What is your typical driver distance?

 

In my case I wouldn't know if the 10 yards was because of the ball or just my not catching it quite right.  I'm not sure 10 yards off a the driver is enough to be a deal killer for me.

My ss is 118, ball speed 175 and typical distance is 295+.  

[lefthack]

I bought a few too many bags of 50 "near mint" balls to try when I was trying to find a ball I liked.  It's way cheaper than paying full price to lose a few trials, but I am a cheap bastxxx.

 

I still haven't found "the ball" but I have more Srixon than anything right now. So I might end up there.

[wantacigar]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

My ss is 118, ball speed 175 and typical distance is 295+.  

My ss is 95-100.  I played the TP5, PV1 and the Ksig 3.2 this past week over two rounds.  IF, and I mean a BIG IF, I lost any yardage on my drive it was maybe 5 yards.  Irons I did not see any distance differences with either the Ksig 3.1 or 3.2.  @AcesAndHoles did a side by side with the CSx and found it comparable.  

 

[Girevik]

3 minutes ago, wantacigar said:

My ss is 95-100.  I played the TP5, PV1 and the Ksig 3.2 this past week over two rounds.  IF, and I mean a BIG IF, I lost any yardage on my drive it was maybe 5 yards.  Irons I did not see any distance differences with either the Ksig 3.1 or 3.2.  @AcesAndHoles did a side by side with the CSx and found it comparable.  

 

That's much more comparable to my swing than the 115MPH range.  It sounds like those losing a lot of distance might be those big hitters and wouldn't  affect me so much.

[wantacigar]

6 minutes ago, Girevik said:

That's much more comparable to my swing than the 115MPH range.  It sounds like those losing a lot of distance might be those big hitters and wouldn't  affect me so much.

Exactly. 

Most of the reviews here and on YT of the Ksig 3.1 like Rick Shiels, James Robison, etc.  have 110+ MPH swing speeds.  The ball speed on the KSig topped out 1-3 mph slower than the PV1 or TP5.  That with the additional spin resulted in a 5-10 yd loss on their balls.  Guys with out swing speeds NEVER top out a golf balls speed off the club hence much more minimal distance loss.  I'm no where good enough to say "damn, If I hit a PV1 I could take a little off my 9 iron".  My 7 iron distance is generally 150-160 yds.  If my drive went 260 yds (with roll) or went 254 yds with roll I would still use the same 7 iron.  This time of year with the temps in the high 50's low to mid 60's the balls already are 5-10 yards short, if not more.  When the temps get over 70* consistently, you will see longer distance on your shots just do to environmental factors.  I hit longer drives in Florida in March and April when I go on vacation than I do in New York.

[phizzy30]

1 hour ago, Girevik said:

That's much more comparable to my swing than the 115MPH range.  It sounds like those losing a lot of distance might be those big hitters and wouldn't  affect me so much.

Very possible.  I think the Kirk v2 maybe lower compression?  Seems like the higher compression/firmer balls are better off for my swing. 

[AcesAndHoles]

3 hours ago, North Butte said:

When I had my brief fling with the Titleist AVX it was during a period of keeping detailed shot-by-shot stats on my game. I was pretty sure that over the course of a dozen or so rounds the AVX was right around 15 yards longer off the tee than the higher spin, higher trajectory ball I'd been playing before.

 

That's certainly enough distance to eventually impact my scoring opportunities. But it was just barely enough to notice in terms of just ended up closer to the hole than I expect, etc. Anything of 10 yards or less would be impossible for me to say for sure without extensive stat-keeping.

The AVX is an anomaly in the Titleist line. I found a pair and played them over ProV1s until a rogue car path robbed me. They're sneaky in the distance realm. 

[Girevik]

18 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

Very possible.  I think the Kirk v2 maybe lower compression?  Seems like the higher compression/firmer balls are better off for my swing. 

From what I recall from the Kirkland thread, the compression of the V2 is fairly high.  Like something in the Pro V1 range, but not quite of the V1+

[AcesAndHoles]

3 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

My ss is 118, ball speed 175 and typical distance is 295+.  

Yep, the Ksig won't do you any favors 😆. It's a good ball, but not designed for goliaths like you. I swing around 112 avg and can juice up to your numbers but the results are dastardly. If I had to guess I'd say your biggest ROI with these is in the 95-110 range.

[AcesAndHoles]

2 hours ago, lefthack said:

I bought a few too many bags of 50 "near mint" balls to try when I was trying to find a ball I liked.  It's way cheaper than paying full price to lose a few trials, but I am a cheap bastxxx.

 

I still haven't found "the ball" but I have more Srixon than anything right now. So I might end up there.

Those are super hit-and-miss for me. I'm still "lending" out what's left of a bag of Bridgestone tour balls that were supposed to be great quality. Never again. I'd rather get the x-out or practice stamped joints. 

[Girevik]

6 minutes ago, AcesAndHoles said:

If I had to guess I'd say your biggest ROI with these is in the 95-110 range.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Girevik

[AcesAndHoles]

3 minutes ago, Girevik said:

From what I recall from the Kirkland thread, the compression of the V2 is fairly high.  Like something in the Pro V1 range, but not quite of the V1+

KSIGV1 was supposed to be a 96.8 compression according to one site with 338 dimples. MGS has it rated at an average of 90 compression in their ball test. They also have the ProV1 at 90, the ProV1x at 97, the  -ProV1x at 102

[lefthack]

2 minutes ago, AcesAndHoles said:

Those are super hit-and-miss for me. I'm still "lending" out what's left of a bag of Bridgestone tour balls that were supposed to be great quality. Never again. I'd rather get the x-out or practice stamped joints. 

Yeah, I found a guy in Canada that I ended up getting way too many from for about $.40/each. But 75% or better look brand new and play well for me.

 

I was losing 6+ a round last year when I restarted. I have actually played a few rounds now where I didn't lose any. But I have like 300+ balls to go through still.  🤣

[AcesAndHoles]

1 minute ago, lefthack said:

Yeah, I found a guy in Canada that I ended up getting way too many from for about $.40/each. But 75% or better look brand new and play well for me.

 

I was losing 6+ a round last year when I restarted. I have actually played a few rounds now where I didn't lose any. But I have like 300+ balls to go through still.  🤣

Dug through the “throw things in the closet and forget about them” stash last night...

 

I think there are another 3 boxes by my bag 😂

 

I need to either play a lot more golf or lose a lot more balls. 

[lefthack]

Yeah, I was supposed to get 150 balls (50/each) and he sent me a couple deals and next thing I know I have about 400ish.  Plus 2 48 boxes of Nitros I'm still working through. Then I have a round like yesterday where I find 2 of mine from other rounds and end up +2 for the day. 

[AcesAndHoles]

45 minutes ago, lefthack said:

Yeah, I was supposed to get 150 balls (50/each) and he sent me a couple deals and next thing I know I have about 400ish.  Plus 2 48 boxes of Nitros I'm still working through. Then I have a round like yesterday where I find 2 of mine from other rounds and end up +2 for the day. 

You found your own ball??? That’s brilliant! 
 

I once played a course and found a sleeve of matching Vice #s  in around 3 holes. Still sparkly and hit maybe for 1 hole. Felt bad for the guy in front of me. 

[lefthack]

Just now, AcesAndHoles said:

You found your own ball??? That’s brilliant! 
 

I once played a course and found a sleeve of matching Vice #s  in around 3 holes. Still sparkly and hit maybe for 1 hole. Felt bad for the guy in front of me. 

 

Between the number I have lost (50+) in the last few months combined with the fact only a few dozen people even play this course, I'm kinda surprised I haven't found more. I know if it's orange, a Nike, or a Srixon, it's one of mine.

[lefthack]

Also Walmart for Spalding Tour. I am dying to try these, but can't buy more balls yet.

[Justsomeguy]

Superhot if you don't care about urethane.

[NHpro]

I've played Top flite golf balls ever since Callaway owned it and re-engineered it to be a darn good budget ball. But since Dick's has owned the brand they have only cheapened the ball. For example, the Gamer was a urethane covered 3 piece ball under Callaway and performed very well. The new Dick's version is still a 3 piece ball but with a harder ionomer cover. There is virtually no difference between the Hammer Control, a 2 piece ball also with an ionomer cover and today's Gamer. Dick's has ruined a once promising Callaway design into a cheap low quality golf ball. Dick's has set Top flite back at least 30 years.

[Tanner25]

2 hours ago, NHpro said:

I've played Top flite golf balls ever since Callaway owned it and re-engineered it to be a darn good budget ball. But since Dick's has owned the brand they have only cheapened the ball. For example, the Gamer was a urethane covered 3 piece ball under Callaway and performed very well. The new Dick's version is still a 3 piece ball but with a harder ionomer cover. There is virtually no difference between the Hammer Control, a 2 piece ball also with an ionomer cover and today's Gamer. Dick's has ruined a once promising Callaway design into a cheap low quality golf ball. Dick's has set Top flite back at least 30 years.

 

Plus they got rid of Gamer Soft, which was a bad move. Not sure how Ksig is a comparison to TopFlite. Ksig's are much better.

[grm24]

On 1/23/2024 at 9:02 AM, NHpro said:

But since Dick's has owned the brand they have only cheapened the ball. For example, the Gamer was a urethane covered 3 piece ball under Callaway and performed very well. The new Dick's version is still a 3 piece ball but with a harder ionomer cover.

DSG at some point after they bought the Top Flite name from Callaway (2012) still had a 3 piece urethane (TPU) version of the Gamer. They had production issues with it. The urethane version of the Gamer went away around 2020. DSG is better off having the Maxfli name for their urethane house brand of golf balls. 

Edited January 28 by grm24

[ode]

11 hours ago, grm24 said:

DSG at some point after they bought the Top Flite name from Callaway (2012) still had a 3 piece urethane (TPU) version of the Gamer. They had production issues with it. The urethane version of the Gamer went away around 2020. DSG is better off having the Maxfli name for their urethane house brand of golf balls. 

The gamer urethane shredded easy which was a non starter.  It was also performed poorly off the tee.  I don't waste my time and $ on 3 pc Ionomer balls anymore as the DTC urethane offerings are plentiful and at a good price.