Driver Angle of Attack

[Liveonce]

Long story short, struggled with the driver for a long time, low hooks and spinny blocks . Then went on a stretch for 2 months where I felt like I couldn’t miss a fairway, nice high draw 265-275 carry. Now , back to the old miss with a few good drives mixed in. 
 

can’t seem to consistently hit up on it now, whereas my AoA was around 3-4* up and launch around 12-13* when stroking it well. When I’m missing I know it is steep and around -1*

[EatingASalad301]

Honestly it doesn't matter. 1 or 2* in either direction is acceptable. What matters with angle of attack isn't distance. It's minimal at best with good players. Learn to get a centered strike and this will care for itself.

[nsxguy]

2 hours ago, Liveonce said:

Long story short, struggled with the driver for a long time, low hooks and spinny blocks . Then went on a stretch for 2 months where I felt like I couldn’t miss a fairway, nice high draw 265-275 carry. Now , back to the old miss with a few good drives mixed in. 
 

can’t seem to consistently hit up on it now, whereas my AoA was around 3-4* up and launch around 12-13* when stroking it well. When I’m missing I know it is steep and around -1*

 

 

What *I* have found, in MY case, is low hooks are caused by not getting my weight forward. Weight back = arms outrace the lower body and snap hook all day.

 

"Spinny blocks" was my old problem, i.e. pre-keeping my head back. Head/upper body went forward along with my weight, club trails too much and right it goes; high and spinny.

 

When I consistently keep my head back behind the ball and my lower body "goes" first, none of either - my dispersion is generally just a little bit into the right rough to just a bit into the left rough.

 

The "high spinny right" occasionally happens, even with the head back though, if I rotate too hard/early.

[Liveonce]

30 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

What *I* have found, in MY case, is low hooks are caused by not getting my weight forward. Weight back = arms outrace the lower body and snap hook all day.

 

"Spinny blocks" was my old problem, i.e. pre-keeping my head back. Head/upper body went forward along with my weight, club trails too much and right it goes; high and spinny.

 

When I consistently keep my head back behind the ball and my lower body "goes" first, none of either - my dispersion is generally just a little bit into the right rough to just a bit into the left rough.

 

The "high spinny right" occasionally happens, even with the head back though, if I rotate too hard/early.

what you are describing is exactly how I feel for both misses. It’s difficult to keep the head back yet get into the lead side for me. What loft driver do u play?

Edited May 17, 2021 by Liveonce

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Liveonce said:

what you are describing is exactly how I feel for both misses. It’s difficult to keep the head back yet get into the lead side for me. What loft driver do u play?

 

Not clear on what loft might have to do with it but I have 2 drivers right now. 2 different versions of the Epic Flash Sub Zero. 1 is a 9 lofted up to 11 and the other is 10.5 lofted up to 11.5.

 

I find it actually fairly simple to alter the height the ball flies. Tee it high, it goes high. Tee it low, it goes low.

 

Not sure what my AoA is but I'd expect it to be about 4* up.

 

Best "tip" I ever got was about 7 years ago as I was demoing a driver. The instructor/salesman was there and turned the camera on as I was getting my (then) usual almost 4,000 spin rate.

 

Replaying the video he noted that instead of just my lower body shifting the weight forward my entire upper body was sliding towards the target.

 

Once I focused on keeping my head back while still getting my weight forward, voila'. Have never driven the ball so far or consistently as I have since I got that one tip.

 

My SS is a puny 95 or so. I launch it around 15-17 with about 2000-2200 backspin.

 

The last thing I think about before pulling the trigger is "Head back, weight forward". Hardly have to think about the head anymore as that's become automatic. I do have to concentrate a bit on getting the weight forward. That I seem to "forget" occasionally.

Edited May 17, 2021 by nsxguy

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, EatingASalad301 said:

Honestly it doesn't matter. 1 or 2* in either direction is acceptable. What matters with angle of attack isn't distance. It's minimal at best with good players. Learn to get a centered strike and this will care for itself.

Problem is that when you have a -2 or -1 angle of attack, you are adding unwanted back spin with driver which kills distance.  It's best IMO for launch angle to be anywhere from 0 to +3 degrees.  Ball will carry further and spin will drop which leads to more total distance. 

[iteachgolf]

9 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

Problem is that when you have a -2 or -1 angle of attack, you are adding unwanted back spin with driver which kills distance.  It's best IMO for launch angle to be anywhere from 0 to +3 degrees.  Ball will carry further and spin will drop which leads to more total distance. 

No you’re not. Hitting -1 or 2 isn’t increasing spin.  Decreasing AOA doesn’t increase spin, it lowers launch.

[phizzy30]

14 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

No you’re not. Hitting -1 or 2 isn’t increasing spin.  Decreasing AOA doesn’t increase spin, it lowers launch.

I disagree.  I've seen numbers on trackman.  My AoA used to be 0 to -1 many years ago.  I changed my swing by hitting up with driver and my AoA went from 0 to +3.  Def saw spin come down.  It around 500 rpm difference on average.  Same driver set up. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by phizzy30

[peepee]

2 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I disagree.  I've seen numbers on trackman.  My AoA used to be 0 to -1 many years ago.  I changed my swing by hitting up with driver and my AoA went from 0 to +3.  Def saw spin come down.  It around 500 rpm difference on average.  Same driver set up. 

Isnt where you hit it on face bigger factor than a little bit down AOA?

 

To OP, If i set up with my centre of my chest well behind the ball I feel I can move forward aggressively on downswing and I hit up without feeling like I am. My fault is when I think my body is well back but its not. I'm actually only kinda tilting away, thats when I start hanging back and hit way right. 

 

 

[itsame]

2 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

No you’re not. Hitting -1 or 2 isn’t increasing spin.  Decreasing AOA doesn’t increase spin, it lowers launch.

 

My understanding is that 'spin loft' is the difference between the dynamic loft and the angle of attack. Higher spin loft means more spin. So with all other things being equal, a -2 AoA will definitely generate more spin than +4. I use a launch monitor every day and my own experience suggests that this is true.

 

Would you mind elaborating?

[phizzy30]

33 minutes ago, peepee said:

Isnt where you hit it on face bigger factor than a little bit down AOA?

 

To OP, If i set up with my centre of my chest well behind the ball I feel I can move forward aggressively on downswing and I hit up without feeling like I am. My fault is when I think my body is well back but its not. I'm actually only kinda tilting away, thats when I start hanging back and hit way right. 

 

 

Yes where the ball is struck is a bigger factor.  AoA plays a role as well.  I'm not saying that there's a huge drop in spin, but it's noticeable.  It can mean the difference between 10-20 yards of extra carry on average. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by phizzy30

[iteachgolf]

1 hour ago, itsame said:

 

My understanding is that 'spin loft' is the difference between the dynamic loft and the angle of attack. Higher spin loft means more spin. So with all other things being equal, a -2 AoA will definitely generate more spin than +4. I use a launch monitor every day and my own experience suggests that this is true.

 

Would you mind elaborating?

Because that’s not how it works in the real world.  As you reduce attack angle you also reduce dynamic loft.  Lowering launch and keeping spin the same. 

[iteachgolf]

3 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I disagree.  I've seen numbers on trackman.  My AoA used to be 0 to -1 many years ago.  I changed my swing by hitting up with driver and my AoA went from 0 to +3.  Def saw spin come down.  It around 500 rpm difference on average.  Same driver set up. 

Cool. I do this all day every day.  And am on the advisory board of a launch monitor company and train people how to use launch monitors all the time.
 

 Go read Tuxen’s articles where he plainly states that AOA won’t increase spin if point of contact is the same.  In fact the more some hits up on it the more likely the lay are to hit it low on the face. This is why you see a ton of players who hit up on it and increase launch AND spin.   Modern drivers are so low spin that you can hit -2 with a driver and still launch it at 12+ degrees and 2500rpms of spin.  Again I see it daily with a large sample size of all ability levels

[phizzy30]

11 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

Cool. I do this all day every day.  And am on the advisory board of a launch monitor company and train people how to use launch monitors all the time.
 

 Go read Tuxen’s articles where he plainly states that AOA won’t increase spin if point of contact is the same.  In fact the more some hits up on it the more likely the lay are to hit it low on the face. This is why you see a ton of players who hit up on it and increase launch AND spin.   Modern drivers are so low spin that you can hit -2 with a driver and still launch it at 12+ degrees and 2500rpms of spin.  Again I see it daily with a large sample size of all ability levels

So I must be the only exception to the rule according to you then.  Ok, I can live with that.  I will just chalk it up to me being the outlier then. 

[Liveonce]

2 hours ago, peepee said:

Isnt where you hit it on face bigger factor than a little bit down AOA?

 

To OP, If i set up with my centre of my chest well behind the ball I feel I can move forward aggressively on downswing and I hit up without feeling like I am. My fault is when I think my body is well back but its not. I'm actually only kinda tilting away, thats when I start hanging back and hit way right. 

 

 

thanks for sharing this, I can relate. I actually was doing this on course yesterday basically setting up club head well behind the ball and it allowed me to get through .

 

 

I think that is the probably like you said—hanging back and hitting it way right or hanging back and just flipping it through compact causing low hooks

[iteachgolf]

11 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

So I must be the only exception to the rule according to you then.  Ok, I can live with that.  I will just chalk it up to me being the outlier then. 

Maybe feeling you hitting up on it really lead to you making a better swing. The AOA wasn’t the actual cause of the improvement, the better swing was. 

[Krt22]

20 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

So I must be the only exception to the rule according to you then.  Ok, I can live with that.  I will just chalk it up to me being the outlier then. 

There are no exceptions to the rule when it's physics.  You just struck the ball better with the swing that happened to have a higher AoA. Strike location and dynamic loft are what impact spin values.

 

A lot of folks think their high spinny shots with driver are from hitting down too much, but for many it's the opposite, its low strikes and too much dynamic loft from tilt and flipping trying to hit up on it a ton. AKA the guys on here with 8* low spin heads, TX low/low shafts, and still spinning it 3k+. You can get high launch low spin drives by simply hitting it just above the vertical CG, which tends to be easier with a more level strike