graphite iron shaft?

[tyorke1]

probably asked before. I am looking for a graphite iron shaft that plays like a stiff or stiff plus. low spin, currently playing modus 3 120s . Shaft that won’t balloon in the wind . what are my options. I have bone spurs in the elbows just trying to prolong my playing. 

[uW0tM8]

MMT 105TX. 113g, great feel, stable but not harsh. 

[Stuart_G]

11 hours ago, tyorke1 said:

probably asked before. I am looking for a graphite iron shaft that plays like a stiff or stiff plus. low spin, currently playing modus 3 120s . Shaft that won’t balloon in the wind . what are my options. I have bone spurs in the elbows just trying to prolong my playing. 

 

First of all, there is no standard for flex.  So technically speaking - pretty much every shaft out there plays true to someone's idea of it's flex and therefore many others will not feel that way to you (either too stiff or too soft).   e.g. coming from those Nippons, many stiff flex shaft (like the steelfiber i-series) might feel too stiff.  In fact, pretty much most of the heavier graphite options will be stiffer then you're used to for the same flex stiffness - and therefor lower launching.  UST Recoils and steelfibers tend to be the most popular above 90 gm - but there are other options to choose from as well. 

 

And make no mistake - finding the right shaft weight is much more important to most than find the right stiffness.  So that's always the best place to start in any shaft search.  Also how much you're willing to spend can make a big difference on what options are available to you.

 

 

[tyorke1]

thanks interesting . I am a plus cap, but I have serious elbow conditions and I need graphite to keep me going. I am thinking steel fibre or mmt . I can use anything from stiff to x. I do like the 120 gram range or 115 . I am a high spin short iron player so keeping spin off is important. I play .5 longer so swing weight is also a factor , Thanks Stu always like what you post. 

[Stuart_G]

Steelfiber i110's have a high balance point so very good for overlength builds.   Might actually want to try both the reg and stiff flex since you're coming from the Nippons.  Reg's will likely be much closer to what you're used to than the stiff's will be.

 

FC115's will be stiffer in the butt - but softer in the tip than the nippons.  Technically a bit higher launching but I wouldn't put too much faith in those categorizations.   Good fit for weight (both shaft weight and swing weight) will tend to have way more of an effect on the delivery and dynamic loft (and therefore launch/spin) than the shaft stiffness profile.

 

UST recoil 110's will be in the middle between those two.

 

Can't speak to the MMT's.   Too pricey for me to make the effort to test them out.

[ilikegolf26]

48 minutes ago, tyorke1 said:

thanks interesting . I am a plus cap, but I have serious elbow conditions and I need graphite to keep me going. I am thinking steel fibre or mmt . I can use anything from stiff to x. I do like the 120 gram range or 115 . I am a high spin short iron player so keeping spin off is important. I play .5 longer so swing weight is also a factor , Thanks Stu always like what you post. 

This isn’t an attack on your post but something I see frequently with people with elbow problems. Is it really the shaft that’s causing these issues or the swing/turf interaction? 
 

I have played DG X100s for just about my entire life (went from S300 to X100 after high school and that was 15 years ago) so it’s all I’ve really known. I hit Nippon Modus and KBS Tours before in demo clubs but never really wanted to make the switch. I’ve had pretty bad wrist and hand issues going on 4-5 years now. How does graphite shafts help that? Reduce vibration? I’m still planning to maintain my angle of attack which can get pretty steep with heavy turf interaction even if switching to graphite. 

[jeffrey r]

14 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Steelfiber i110's have a high balance point so very good for overlength builds.   Might actually want to try both the reg and stiff flex since you're coming from the Nippons.  Reg's will likely be much closer to what you're used to than the stiff's will be.

 

FC115's will be stiffer in the butt - but softer in the tip than the nippons.  Technically a bit higher launching but I wouldn't put too much faith in those categorizations.   Good fit for weight (both shaft weight and swing weight) will tend to have way more of an effect on the delivery and dynamic loft (and therefore launch/spin) than the shaft stiffness profile.

 

UST recoil 110's will be in the middle between those two.

 

Can't speak to the MMT's.   Too pricey for me to make the effort to test them out.

 

Love the Steelfiber i110 and fc115.  If you are looking for that 115-120g range, then don't sleep on the fc115.  I have them in a set of PXG Gen 2 P irons, soft-stepped once, and they are excellent shafts.  For me personally, I should have soft-stepped the fc115 twice, but that is to get them down a bit in weight and just a tad softer. 

 

The i110 are outstanding, and as is widely known, swing weight quite low.  I think my Pings must be at C9 without the lead tape I have added to get them D2-D3.  The i110 regulars play firm but with some kick, and work great for me.  The i110 stiff were like re-bar for me, incredibly stiff and harsh.  Can't game those in my irons, but I do play them in my Cleveland wedges soft-stepped once.

 

YMMV and good luck.

[jeffrey r]

2 minutes ago, ilikegolf26 said:

This isn’t an attack on your post but something I see frequently with people with elbow problems. Is it really the shaft that’s causing these issues or the swing/turf interaction? 
 

I have played DG X100s for just about my entire life (went from S300 to X100 after high school and that was 15 years ago) so it’s all I’ve really known. I hit Nippon Modus and KBS Tours before in demo clubs but never really wanted to make the switch. I’ve had pretty bad wrist and hand issues going on 4-5 years now. How does graphite shafts help that? Reduce vibration? I’m still planning to maintain my angle of attack which can get pretty steep with heavy turf interaction even if switching to graphite. 

 

I have a steep swing, so I don't make it easier on my body.  That said, graphite has made a world of difference for me.  I can still get some soreness after a round or a bunch of rounds, but nothing terrible. 

 

Over the years playing steel shafts, even 10-15 years ago so much younger, I had significant shoulder and elbow problems.  I just don't get that anymore after switching to graphite, and frankly, during the pandemic years, I have played much more golf than I ever did previously. 

 

There is really not much question that graphite is easier on the joints than steel, and now with Steelfibers, and Recoils, MMT, Catalyst, etc., these graphite shafts give nothing away to their steel counterparts.  Phenomenal shafts.

 

I actually go a step further and put backer rod (prosoft inserts) into my Steelfibers.  Makes them that much more resistant to vibration and pain.  YMMV.

[Stuart_G]

51 minutes ago, ilikegolf26 said:

Is it really the shaft that’s causing these issues or the swing/turf interaction?

 

The shaft is never really the cause - but that doesn't lessen it's importance as part of the treatment/management plan for the underlying injury.

 

Of course it should never be the ONLY part of the treatment/management plan unless the underlying medical condition is not treatable by any other viable means (as determined by medical professionals).

 

[ChipNRun]

Iron shafts: steel to graphite... general advice.

• Although some WRXers may describe graphite shaft X as similar to steel shaft Y, similar is tenuous. Graphite and steel shafts feel different from each other.
• Weight is important in selecting a shaft, but you can't assume 95 gram graphite will feel same as 95 gram steel.
• In some cases, I have found graphite shafts that feel both lighter and stiffer than so-called similar steel shafts.
• In some graphite models, I have found a big jump in feel of stiffness from one weight level to another. In the Recoil DART shafts available in Callaway Apex family irons, the DART 65 R and S didn't feel much different. But the DART 75, especially in Stiff (78 grams) felt like a lightweight steel Project X. And, I couldn't get consistent launch with the shaft. Another golfer at the outdoor fitting also said no to the D75. Lesson: Try out each graphite shaft level in person. Don't jump up a weight class (65 to 75) just because someone says 75 will be a little firmer and you'll like it. (I tested out in person and verified it wouldn't work, so I guess I get to keep my WRXer card.)

[Stuart_G]

41 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

Iron shafts: steel to graphite... general advice.

 

Sorry but generalizations based on the shaft material are always a bad idea.   There are no standards - for stiffness or uncut to cut weight conversions.  Each model needs to be looked at (felt) and evaluated independently of any other shaft model (regardless of the material).

 

Pretty much all of your points are very valid - but they are really valid independent of the shaft material.

 

41 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

• Although some WRXers may describe graphite shaft X as similar to steel shaft Y, similar is tenuous. Graphite and steel shafts feel different from each other.

 

The only valid generalization is that the feel of impact (and only impact) will be different between graphite and steel.  Graphite always being more muted than steel with less feedback on the impact quality.   Feel during the swing (both weight and stiffness) has nothing to do with the material.

 

 

41 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

• Weight is important in selecting a shaft, but you can't assume 95 gram graphite will feel same as 95 gram steel.

 

You can as long as 1) you are comparing cut shaft weights, not uncut shaft weights and 2) don't ignore swing weight / MOI (or grip weight) and 3) the stiffness profiles are similar.   Weight is weight. The laws of physics don't care about the material, only the amount of mass and how it's distributed through the club.

 

Now the last part of that is that (3) is where things break down more commonly.  Many don't realize that the stiffness properties can effect the weight feel in many different ways.  But that is still really all about the stiffness profile of the respective shafts and not about the material.  So the same could be said for two different graphite shafts or two different steel shafts.

 

 

41 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

• In some cases, I have found graphite shafts that feel both lighter and stiffer than so-called similar steel shafts.

 

That's because there are some that are like that - the problem is more often the accuracy of someone's judgement of "similar" that's flawed.

 

 

41 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

• In some graphite models, I have found a big jump in feel of stiffness from one weight level to another.

 

Again, that's true for many shaft models regardless of material.   Some designers take the approach that the stiffness profile should change as the weight changes (even for the same flex).   Other designers take the opposite approach and try to make the stiffness profiles similar as the weight changes.    Graphite does allow for more - or rather easier - independent manipulation of stiffness and weight than steel - but that's just a potential.  It's still up to the designer to decide to take advantage of that or not.

 

Again each shaft make/model has to be looked at independently of any other make/model.  That's the most important message that should be sent to any prospective buyer.    Any assumptions based on any spec (material, weight, flex label) is going to lead to inaccurate assessments more often than not.   I know a lot of folks come here for short cuts helping them decide - but they just don't exist.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Stuart_G

[ChipNRun]

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

Graphite always being more muted than steel with less feedback on the impact quality. 

 

Sunday I tested my MD4 54*/10 which was reshafted from TT.115 steel to Catalyst 6.0 (85 gram) graphite. By chance, I also have an MD3 54*/12 Wide sole with KBS steel. The Catalyst felt odd - not bad - just odd. In MD3 in steel I felt more head kick, but the MD4 Catalyst seemed easier to get a consistent tempo with.

 

The lighter weight may contribute to more consistent tempo.

 

I know I changed more than one variable: shafts different, but heads... similar but not the same.

 

With the Catalyst 65 5.5 in my new MavMAX irons PW, I felt more head kick at impact.

 

Hopefully with the lighter graphite iron and wedge shafts, I can swing more on tempo up and down the bag.

[Sparty4202]

3 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

The shaft is never really the cause - but that doesn't lessen it's importance as part of the treatment/management plan for the underlying injury.

 

Of course it should never be the ONLY part of the treatment/management plan unless the underlying medical condition is not treatable by any other viable means (as determined by medical professionals).

 

I suffered with golfers elbow for many years, it started back in the late 80’s…I’ve switched back and forth between steel (with sensicores) and graphite. Graphite is the only thing that has worked for keeping my golfers elbow at bay…..I’ve spent the last 10 years looking for the perfect graphite shaft…and still haven’t found it.

[Sparty4202]

On 10/10/2021 at 6:14 PM, tyorke1 said:

probably asked before. I am looking for a graphite iron shaft that plays like a stiff or stiff plus. low spin, currently playing modus 3 120s . Shaft that won’t balloon in the wind . what are my options. I have bone spurs in the elbows just trying to prolong my playing. 

I’ve been looking for a slightly lighter weight version of the Modus 3 120 shaft and so far there has been nothing in graphite or steel that has a similar EI Profile. 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, ChipNRun said:

The lighter weight may contribute to more consistent tempo.

 

Weight and stiffness can certainly cause changes to the swing -  tempo, rhythm and more.   And of course changes to the swing can cause additional changes to the feel of the shaft stiffness beyond what the stiffness profile data might indicate.  So it has the potential to be a very complex relationship between the actual specs and actual feels - more so than the numbers might indicate.

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

Composite MMT 125 "s" shafts in 5i-9i, at D2 for PW-LW D5-D7; they are low-mid spin and mid-high bend which works nicely with my mechanics/tempo.  My 2i-4i are D1 and have Mitsubishi Tensei AV White AM2 "s", high bend.  Together, they play like steel but lack the harshness.  

 

I also played Steelfiber i110cw in 2-9i, and i125cw in PW-LW for almost 2yrs before switching.  There's a notable difference, least to me, in feel between Steelfiber and MMT/Tensei. 

 

I have a set of MMT 105s, and i95cw, but both shafts didn't last long because they are too light for me.  Lightweight steel vs lightweight "composite" graphite will not feel the same, and standard graphite will feel different from both.

 

Composite graphite is purposely designed for people switching from steel to graphite but have weight, sw and feel issues and want steel like dispersion, which can't be met with standard lightweight graphite.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Pepperturbo

[tyorke1]

narrowed down to Am2 stiff or steel fibre 110 or 115fc . 

[tyorke1]

Are the majority of scratch or plus caps and pros going with steelfibre  ? Seems to be the most popular. I am interested in the am2 but what happens if u break one can a replacement be had . 

[phizzy30]

MMT 105S hard stepped or 105x soft stepped would probably work for you.  I have the 125 TX and it takes all the good things about steel and makes it even better IMO.  I have had issues with my hands, wrists and elbows over the years and the MMT allows me to play and practice more these days than when I had the C-tapers in my bag.  Dispersion is also better as the ball curves less.  Steel fiber was ok for me when I tested them years back but doesn't quite have the feel of the MMT and dispersion wasn't nearly as good either. 

Edited October 14, 2021 by phizzy30

[Stuart_G]

43 minutes ago, tyorke1 said:

Are the majority of scratch or plus caps and pros going with steelfibre  ? Seems to be the most popular. I am interested in the am2 but what happens if u break one can a replacement be had . 

 

I know of someone who was able to get a replacement by contacting Aerotech directly, they sometimes have left over inventory on hand - but I wouldn't count on that.   The good news is that graphite shafts are a lot more durable and less prone to breakage than steel shafts so it's pretty rare as long as you take half way decent care of them.

 

On 10/12/2021 at 7:25 PM, tyorke1 said:

narrowed down to Am2 stiff or steel fibre 110 or 115fc . 

 

i-series (and am2's) have a noticeably different stiffness profile (stiffer tip sections) than the fc series.   If you prefer that stiff tip feeling (some might say 'stout', some might say 'stable') then the i-series is the way to go.  If you like to feel a bit of loading and kick through impact - go with the fc series.  

 

Also, i110's have a bit of a high balance point.  That means that either they are going to be very good for over length builds - or need some extra tip weights to get 'normal' swing weights at 'standard' length builds.   It's a bit of a pain for the builder but not something that can't be overcome.  It also means they will play more like 115 gm shafts after the tip weights are added.