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Reverse mixed combo iron set....can it work?


wcdixon
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The facts: 8 handicap...smooth deliberate swing...96 MPH Driver SS. For past two years I've gamed a set of Rogue Pro irons 5-AW with Recoil 760 ES F3 shafts - liked them a lot...struck them solid/hit my distances. But at end of last season and over winter so far have struggled hitting my 9i, PW, AW . I've gotten inconsistent, lost distance, pulling or shanking (gah) them even - basically lost a lot of confidence in them...BUT still strike the 5-8i well and confidently without any distance loss.

 

Usually a combo/mixed set has the 'pro' irons at the top end of the irons (8-AW say) and the more forgiving/GI clubs on the lower longer irons (5-7)...which makes sense. But in my case, the last few times out I've swapped my Rogue Pro 9-AW out for my older and more forgiving Steelhead XR 9-AW irons (with same Recoil 760 F3 shafts) and yes they provide less workability but I have struck them better/more confidently/regained distance etc.

 

Two questions: yes I understand if something works there's really no need to change it...but 1) does this kind of combo/mix of irons even make sense? 2) any insight or thoughts into why I've gone into the toilet so badly with the higher Rogue Pro irons but not the longer irons?

Callaway Rogue 9.0 - Aldila Synergy 50 reg

Rogue 4w Tensai CK 60 reg at 17*

Callaway Epic Flash 4 hybrid 20* - Tensei AV Silver 65 reg

Ping g410 4 hybrid at 22* Alta CB 70 reg  

Callaway Rogue Pro 5i-AW - UST Recoil ES 760 f3

Callaway Jaws Chrome 54*W, 58*W - Project X 80 graphite

Odyssey Black Series Tour Design 2 34.5"

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When I hit a shank it's almost always with a short iron or wedge. I  think it's due to the shorter shaft and steeper swing. Maybe try single length in the short irons and wedges. Just a thought.

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Just now, Barfolomew said:

Nothin makes sense in golf... so therefore it all makes sense 🐄

Every time I read one of your posts I can't help but "hear" it in John Candy's voice.  🤣

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Callaway Big Bertha Alpha 816 16° 3 Wood Aldila Rogue Silver 110 msi 70S 42.5" D2                                                        

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Hovland has don't some weird stuff like that with like i59s or iBlades in the long irons then i210s in the short irons. 

 

If it works for you, do it just test it first. 

Lefty

Driver: 8° Cobra LTDxLS | Mitsubishi C6 Onyx 60X

3W: 13.5° Ping G410 LST | Aldila NV 2KXV Green 75X

3H: 19° Ping G410 | Tensei CK Pro Orange 90TX

Irons: 4i - 7i Srixon 585 / 8i-PW Srixon 785 | AMT Tour White S300

Wedges: 52° MD3 | 56° Glide 2.0 Stealth | 60° Glide 

Putter(s): TP Mills Trad II | Cody James Patriot | Lajosi Sensor | KB-9306 | and more. 

WITB Thread

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3 hours ago, wcdixon said:

The facts: 8 handicap...smooth deliberate swing...96 MPH Driver SS. For past two years I've gamed a set of Rogue Pro irons 5-AW with Recoil 760 ES F3 shafts - liked them a lot...struck them solid/hit my distances. But at end of last season and over winter so far have struggled hitting my 9i, PW, AW . I've gotten inconsistent, lost distance, pulling or shanking (gah) them even - basically lost a lot of confidence in them...BUT still strike the 5-8i well and confidently without any distance loss.

 

Usually a combo/mixed set has the 'pro' irons at the top end of the irons (8-AW say) and the more forgiving/GI clubs on the lower longer irons (5-7)...which makes sense. But in my case, the last few times out I've swapped my Rogue Pro 9-AW out for my older and more forgiving Steelhead XR 9-AW irons (with same Recoil 760 F3 shafts) and yes they provide less workability but I have struck them better/more confidently/regained distance etc.

 

Two questions: yes I understand if something works there's really no need to change it...but 1) does this kind of combo/mix of irons even make sense? 2) any insight or thoughts into why I've gone into the toilet so badly with the higher Rogue Pro irons but not the longer irons

 

I’m a 3 now and at my lowest was a +2. I hit my normal shot to play my best best golf and that happens to be a draw. The more consistent my shots are the better I will play. I’ve never understood the “oh I need to be able to work the ball” mentality. Countless hall of fame players won tournaments using offset cavity back irons. I’ve played cavity back irons for 30 years and if I absolutely have to curve the ball I’ve yet to find a golf club that wouldn’t allow me to do it. Play the irons that hit most consistently in ONE direction and go from there.
 

Edited by hammergolf
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Ping G425 3wd @ Flat setting Grafalloy Pro lite 3.5 Reg
Ping G425 7wd @ -1 Flat setting Graffaloy Pro Lite 3.5 Reg
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8 minutes ago, spring7 said:

years ago Faldo played the US Open with i3 blade long irons and i3 O-Size in the short.

I believe the i3 blades actually have a higher Maltby Playability Factor than the o-size.  Maybe the COG is actually higher in the O-size than the blade, leading to a slightly lower trajectory.  I had a set of the i3 blades, and the flight was quite high with them.

                                                                                                                                                                     

TaylorMade SIM2 Max 10.5° Graphite Design YS Nano Reloaded 6X 44" D3                                                 

Callaway Big Bertha Alpha 816 16° 3 Wood Aldila Rogue Silver 110 msi 70S 42.5" D2                                                        

Callaway Epic Flash 21° 7 Wood UST Mamiya Attas 4U 8S 42" D2                                                           

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Yes! Natalie Center Shafted 33"

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16 hours ago, wcdixon said:

The facts: 8 handicap...smooth deliberate swing...96 MPH Driver SS. For past two years I've gamed a set of Rogue Pro irons 5-AW with Recoil 760 ES F3 shafts - liked them a lot...struck them solid/hit my distances. But at end of last season and over winter so far have struggled hitting my 9i, PW, AW . I've gotten inconsistent, lost distance, pulling or shanking (gah) them even - basically lost a lot of confidence in them...BUT still strike the 5-8i well and confidently without any distance loss.

 

Usually a combo/mixed set has the 'pro' irons at the top end of the irons (8-AW say) and the more forgiving/GI clubs on the lower longer irons (5-7)...which makes sense. But in my case, the last few times out I've swapped my Rogue Pro 9-AW out for my older and more forgiving Steelhead XR 9-AW irons (with same Recoil 760 F3 shafts) and yes they provide less workability but I have struck them better/more confidently/regained distance etc.

 

Two questions: yes I understand if something works there's really no need to change it...but 1) does this kind of combo/mix of irons even make sense? 2) any insight or thoughts into why I've gone into the toilet so badly with the higher Rogue Pro irons but not the longer irons?

There's been some cases in pro bags like Langer.  It could be a visual thing, like offset preference.  It could be a weighting vs length issue.  For instance wanting to feel a little heavier on the shorter clubs that get more partial swings.  Or it could be flight preferences, head CG related, while maintaining consistently with the "harder to hit" longer clubs.

 

I've found a liking for GI wedges (CBX) combo'ed with more compact players irons.  Have even had a blade 3 iron at one point as a tee club with the reverse combo (have a blade 1 iron to try for kicks when it warms up because it's unbelievably awesome at the range lol).

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D1 Adams XTD Ti, RgWt70X D2 Titleist TS2, D+72X 5W 915F, D+80X 4I Cobra F9, Recoil 110X 6I TM Sim2 Max OS 6I-PW Mizuno MP-54, C Taper Lite X GW Nike VPC 54, 60 CBX, DGS300 Cure CX3

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On 1/19/2022 at 2:38 PM, wcdixon said:

For past two years I've gamed a set of Rogue Pro irons 5-AW with Recoil 760 ES F3 shafts

 

In the GolfWorks OEM shaft replacement guide, the Callaway file shows the Rogue Pro irons as having  a taper-tip 0.355" hosel.

 

The 760 ES, however, is manufactured with parallel tip. But, a taper tip is available upon request.

image.png.196992fe5e212ae2fdde8cc1c0d19853.png

 

To get taper tip, the Recoil shop basically sands down the parallel tips slightly so they fit into taper hosels. The drawback: the resulting Recoils are not constant weight, or even ascending weight - they end up as descending weight, as parallels normally do.

 

I'm not sure how deep the bore is on the Pro hosels. I would advise you to talk to a repair person... a clubsmith can help you figure our roughly the end weight of 780s trimmed for 8i, 9i and PW.

 

On 1/19/2022 at 2:38 PM, wcdixon said:

But at end of last season and over winter so far have struggled hitting my 9i, PW, AW .

 

I had a similar problem with my prior set, the Tour Edge Exotics CB Pro Tungsten irons. Parallel tip, shafted in KBS Tour 90. I ended up with the same distance falloff in my 8i on up. Solution from our WRX clubsmiths: Put lead tape on the outside of the shaft, an inch or so below the grip. This increased the weight of the shaft without disturbing the balance. 8i got 1", 9i got 1.5", PW got 2". The added weight made the clubs easier to feel at the top, and it was easier to stay down and through the shots.

 

Since you're dealing with graphite, you might not want to do the tape on shaft. What you could do, however, is reshaft in Recoil 780 ES. The F3 would give you heavier 83-gram shafts, the f4 87-gram shafts. If you go with F4, you might softstep the shaft so it isn't too firm.

 

Weight calculation for F3 shaft trimmed for 8i would be roughly... (36" trim-out / 41" blank) x 83 grams = 73 grams 

 

For your short irons, I suspect the trimmed-out shafts are already in the low-60 gram range. If the fitter would pull, say, the 9i shaft, he could weight it and see what the trim length is.

 

Edited by ChipNRun
Insert trim-weight estimate.
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What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, set 9.5°; weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

     * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

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16 hours ago, ChipNRun said:

I ended up with the same distance falloff in my 8i on up. Solution from our WRX clubsmiths: Put lead tape on the outside of the shaft, an inch or so below the grip. This increased the weight of the shaft without disturbing the balance. 8i got 1", 9i got 1.5", PW got 2". The added weight made the clubs easier to feel at the top, and it was easier to stay down and through the shots.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful and insightful reply...I bought irons used and had no idea about the tapered vs parallel effect. And I clearly left out the most important thing which was late last season I injured my elbow slightly and removed the couple of strips of lead tape I had on each of my higher irons (on back of the clubhead) thinking if they were lighter it might make swinging easier...but it sounds like doing that may well have contributed to the ball striking of those clubs going into the toilet.

 

Will put the lead tape back on and see if that helps...and also look into reshafting with the 780 f3's. Thanks again.

Callaway Rogue 9.0 - Aldila Synergy 50 reg

Rogue 4w Tensai CK 60 reg at 17*

Callaway Epic Flash 4 hybrid 20* - Tensei AV Silver 65 reg

Ping g410 4 hybrid at 22* Alta CB 70 reg  

Callaway Rogue Pro 5i-AW - UST Recoil ES 760 f3

Callaway Jaws Chrome 54*W, 58*W - Project X 80 graphite

Odyssey Black Series Tour Design 2 34.5"

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1 hour ago, wcdixon said:

I injured my elbow slightly and removed the couple of strips of lead tape I had on each of my higher irons

 

image.png.5cee6a5324389ab1b458f50f7ecb4c1a.pngThe lead tape will work - if there's a good surface area on the back of the clubhead, such as your Rogue Pros.

 

I am considering upping the SwWt on my MAXs. But, the rear badges are part polymer, and there's really no place to put tape where I want the weight. I may have to put tungsten powder down the shaft to do it. (Only problem with this: too much tip weight can introduce a draw bias into the club.)

 

Let us know how things work out; a little tape on the head may do it for you.

What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2021, post-MAX changeover)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, set 9.5°; weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

For details see:  Pending (need protocol to embed file list).

     * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

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