distance debate

[So_Cal]

4 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Swinging out of your shoes is not sustainable for two years yet alone ten.....IMO

I just don’t think they have to swing that hard.  I mean I’m in my 40’s now and regularly hit it over 300 (sometimes way over) not swinging hard.  I’m tall and strong but still.  I totally respect your opinions and have no desire to debate this anymore.  

[Titleist99]

17 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

I just don’t think they have to swing that hard.  I mean I’m in my 40’s now and regularly hit it over 300 (sometimes way over) not swinging hard.  I’m tall and strong but still.  I totally respect your opinions and have no desire to debate this anymore.  

Wrong.....You have every desire to debate this again and again and again.........IMO

[So_Cal]

7 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Wrong.....You have every desire to debate this again and again and again.........IMO

Once the ball is rolled back for top level golfers I’ll pipe down.  Like Alister MacKezie said “less walking, more golfing!”   

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

All depends on how you look at it:

Carry distance average 282.5 Yards......slow the fairways down.

Only 10 players average 300 yards carry. 2022....Only one is a prolific winner, Rory.

 

Golf is just fine. IMO

 

How does the DPT compare yardage wise?

 

The reason I ask, is it would seem to me that there would be enough variation in the fairway HOC across all these courses they play we would see some sort of difference week to week not counting wet courses.  I get the PGAT dictates a good deal of the set up.  Perhaps that is where you start.  But you have to get them to admit there is a problem to interest them in changing it.  (And perhaps it takes the upper 10% of your membership leaving too.)

[Titleist99]

I see it time and time again........hitting a drive 320 yards means nothing if you can't hit your next shot within 20 ft of the hole.

 

Just an observation.

[So_Cal]

16 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

I see it time and time again........hitting a drive 320 yards means nothing if you can't hit your next shot within 20 ft of the hole.

 

Just an observation.

100% true.  What club are pros hitting after a 320 yard drive on a 440 yd par 4?  There is a lack of variety after the drive. Again, JMO. 

[Titleist99]

18 minutes ago, So_Cal said:

100% true.  What club are pros hitting after a 320 yard drive on a 440 yd par 4?  There is a lack of variety after the drive. Again, JMO. 

To some it don't matter....

[kasting333]

1 hour ago, So_Cal said:

100% true.  What club are pros hitting after a 320 yard drive on a 440 yd par 4?  There is a lack of variety after the drive. Again, JMO. 

Probably a Gap Wedge but it depends when their irons were made. Lofts and lengths are definitely a piece of this that does go largely ignored. 
 

Edited August 26, 2022 by kasting333

[Cicero]

7 hours ago, So_Cal said:

It’s not the equipment it’s the athletes.  🤪.  These guys could play in the NFL and NBA.  🤦‍♂️ 

 

Remember the outliers in the current generations are always the norm in the next.  A tour with many Brysons is the future.  I prefer to see a variety of skill and the ball should be rolled back.  I know many of you just prefer driver wedge though. 

  I think you’ll see more guys 125+.  But guys playing major-level golf at 135 on course speed will always be vanishingly small.  There are a good number of people out there who can hit 200+ on-course.  Some of them can play really well.  But between the super fast guys who’ve chosen to gear down to compete, the professionals who’ve voiced how difficult it is to control a swing and ball at those speeds enough to compete at the highest level, and the difficulty of making a living on tour under any circumstances at all, and I struggle to see many Brysons on tour.  

[TLUBulldogGolf]

17 hours ago, kasting333 said:

Probably a Gap Wedge but it depends when their irons were made. Lofts and lengths are definitely a piece of this that does go largely ignored. 
 

That’s fair but my 30 degree 6 iron stops on a dime on basically all but the firmest greens. If you are talking ams many aren’t playing a playable flight imo.

[Nard_S]

The inability to stop the ball has risen quite a bit in last few years and it's the low spin/high launch gear that everyone "loves". There's no free lunch, want that, ability to control land & kick diminishes. I keep hearing "ams need it because they come up short all the time". Two things, ams suck at reading situation, ams suck at reading their own ability at that moment and making a sober call. I now see really able golfers drinking the koolaid and bouncing their ball to who knows where because their LM said this was 'best fit". 

[ThinkingPlus]

27 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

The inability to stop the ball has risen quite a bit in last few years and it's the low spin/high launch gear that everyone "loves". There's no free lunch, want that, ability to control land & kick diminishes. I keep hearing "ams need it because they come up short all the time". Two things, ams suck at reading situation, ams suck at reading their own ability at that moment and making a sober call. I now see really able golfers drinking the koolaid and bouncing their ball to who knows where because their LM said this was 'best fit". 

Your post is spot on.  I pretty much play the spinniest balls I can get that don't compromise driving distance much.  Squeezing an extra 5 off the tee shot or approach shot is worthless if the ball just bounds over the green.  Also, choosing a ball that "feels" good (i.e., soft) is just stupid if you really care about score.  I play either a Snell MTB-X or a Pro V1X.  Both provide good spin (Snell spins a little less, but the cost is attractive) and good distance.  Both are hard as rocks, but I don't care.  Low score wins.

[Titleist99]

53 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Your post is spot on.  I pretty much play the spinniest balls I can get that don't compromise driving distance much.  Squeezing an extra 5 off the tee shot or approach shot is worthless if the ball just bounds over the green.  Also, choosing a ball that "feels" good (i.e., soft) is just stupid if you really care about score.  I play either a Snell MTB-X or a Pro V1X.  Both provide good spin (Snell spins a little less, but the cost is attractive) and good distance.  Both are hard as rocks, but I don't care.  Low score wins.

(sarcasm) Nope, hitting a long irons into a par fours wins! According to some.

Continued low scores ........

[So_Cal]

6 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

(sarcasm) Nope, hitting a long irons into a par fours wins! According to some.

Continued low scores ........

You know I have to admit 99.  I played an X in the mid am qualifier on the firmest greens I’ve ever played.  Was spinning 9 irons 25 yards back off some greens; sloped of course .  Generating spin IMO is not a problem.  Now the left dash is a different animal.  That’s a tough one to spin. 

[kasting333]

On 8/27/2022 at 9:16 AM, TLUBulldogGolf said:

That’s fair but my 30 degree 6 iron stops on a dime on basically all but the firmest greens. If you are talking ams many aren’t playing a playable flight imo.

I was replying to the post about a pro hitting driver, wedge. 

 

[gvogel]

On 8/26/2022 at 3:33 PM, kasting333 said:

Probably a Gap Wedge but it depends when their irons were made. Lofts and lengths are definitely a piece of this that does go largely ignored. 
 

It doesn't matter what the lofts are on the bottom of the irons.  The distance problem is all about how far the modern ball can be hit off the modern driver.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

7 hours ago, kasting333 said:

I was replying to the post about a pro hitting driver, wedge. 

 

The implication from your post was that it was all or in large part down to stronger lofts. Sure lofts have gotten stronger but they are still playing ball flights that will stop with ease on all but the firmest greens.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

On 8/26/2022 at 1:01 PM, Titleist99 said:

I see it time and time again........hitting a drive 320 yards means nothing if you can't hit your next shot within 20 ft of the hole.

 

Just an observation.

Rory hit the 8 longest drives in the field over the course of a round. Also he went on to win. 
 

Just an observation.

 

Also, I’d be curious to know which club is easiest to hit within 20 ft in your opinion.

[kasting333]

6 minutes ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

The implication from your post was that it was all or in large part down to stronger lofts. Sure lofts have gotten stronger but they are still playing ball flights that will stop with ease on all but the firmest greens.

Not at all. It’s just a factor that rarely gets mentioned when comparing shots now to those in the past. The length that provides extra swing speed is a factor as well to what you are talking about. 

[kasting333]

2 hours ago, gvogel said:

It doesn't matter what the lofts are on the bottom of the irons.  The distance problem is all about how far the modern ball can be hit off the modern driver.

Sure it does. The ball probably does go too far off the driver but there are other factors to distance and the framing of it that go ignored. It’s all about narrative and the facts get lost. People get so dug in on their position reality goes to the wayside.
If you don’t recognize that then you probably wouldn’t be satisfied with any solution. 

[ThinkingPlus]

13 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Rory hit the 8 longest drives in the field over the course of a round. Also he went on to win. 
 

Just an observation.

 

Also, I’d be curious to know which club is easiest to hit within 20 ft in your opinion.

It's largely a function of distance not club.  Generally angular dispersion, on average, is the same throughout the irons and wedges.  Thus, distance x angular dispersion = proximity for pretty much any shot from the fairway.  Dispersion increases somewhat for longer shots from the rough so the proximity from the rough isn’t as straightforward to get.

[smashdn]

Drove the green on 318 par four yesterday.  Missed the 25 footer for eagle.  Made the birdie.  Just cut the little corner you can hit it so high compared to old drivers.  well I mean you can hit the old drivers high, they just balloon though.

[mahonie]

1 hour ago, ThinkingPlus said:

It's largely a function of distance not club.  Generally angular dispersion, on average, is the same throughout the irons and wedges.  Thus, distance x angular dispersion = proximity for pretty much any shot from the fairway.  Dispersion increases somewhat for longer shots from the rough so the proximity from the rough isn’t as straightforward to get.

You need to factor loft into dispersion calculations...D-plane rules!

[clevited]

1 hour ago, smashdn said:

Drove the green on 318 par four yesterday.  Missed the 25 footer for eagle.  Made the birdie.  Just cut the little corner you can hit it so high compared to old drivers.  well I mean you can hit the old drivers high, they just balloon though.

 

Sounds like you had a flash of some serious skill to pull that off.

[smashdn]

18 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Sounds like you had a flash of some serious skill to pull that off.

 

Blind squirrel.  Just keep teeing it up and blasting it.  Might go two fairways over, might land on the green.  More often than not it is in the rough somewhere.

[gvogel]

15 hours ago, kasting333 said:

Sure it does. The ball probably does go too far off the driver but there are other factors to distance and the framing of it that go ignored. It’s all about narrative and the facts get lost. People get so dug in on their position reality goes to the wayside.
If you don’t recognize that then you probably wouldn’t be satisfied with any solution. 

Let's say, just for giggles, that it was your decision to reduce distance in the pro game.  Would you mandate that certain irons have certain lofts?

 

Of course you wouldn't.  My hickory 5-iron has the same loft as my modern 7-iron, and they both go about the same distance.  Maybe you would want the loft stamped on the sole of the club, but that wouldn't change much of anything.

 

What has changed over the past 20 years is the size of the driver head, which has made it much easier to hit up on the ball, and also has made it much easier to play longer shafts, the weight of said longer shafts (lighter), and the spring effect from the face.  Couple that with the solid core, highly engineered ball, and you have the makings of much longer drives.

 

By the way, can you envision trying to play a 200cc driver head with a 46" shaft?  I think that would be very difficult, and the reason the pros largely use 43" shafts in their 3-metals.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

2 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

It's largely a function of distance not club.  Generally angular dispersion, on average, is the same throughout the irons and wedges.  Thus, distance x angular dispersion = proximity for pretty much any shot from the fairway.  Dispersion increases somewhat for longer shots from the rough so the proximity from the rough isn’t as straightforward to get.

Shorter clubs with more loft go shorter, you can try to hide the ball with technicality but the closer you are to the green the closer you will hit it on average, at least from a tour player’s perspective, and the stats support this. My point was his statement is nonsensical, anyone can hit a bad shot from any given yardage, that doesn’t change the fact that closer is nearly always better.

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

Shorter clubs with more loft go shorter, you can try to hide the ball with technicality but the closer you are to the green the closer you will hit it on average, at least from a tour player’s perspective, and the stats support this. My point was his statement is nonsensical, anyone can hit a bad shot from any given yardage, that doesn’t change the fact that closer is nearly always better.

I misunderstood your question.  It seemed to imply you thought wedges were somehow more accurate than other irons.  My mistake.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

26 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I misunderstood your question.  It seemed to imply you thought wedges were somehow more accurate than other irons.  My mistake.

I was trying to imply that and it’s true. But I wanted the poster posing the overused trope to answer.

[Pastit]

16 hours ago, smashdn said:

Drove the green on 318 par four yesterday.  Missed the 25 footer for eagle.  Made the birdie.  Just cut the little corner you can hit it so high compared to old drivers.  well I mean you can hit the old drivers high, they just balloon though.

 Do they indeed. In 1976, a drought year here, I drove onto the green-front of our first hole of 308 yds. Maybe if I’d not ballooned it I’d have been through the back. Weapon, Tony Peña Ltd edition Persimmon driver, probably a Pinnacle ball.