Strokes Gained apps / subscriptions

[AussieGuy]

Hi all,

 

Just wondering if anyone has had good success with any of the strokes gained services that are out there.

 

I really don’t want to have to tag clubs, or be phone reliant. I like the idea of manually keeping stats (circles has a great downloadable sheet) and then inputting after the round. Also a lot of the services give the option of scratch or pro golfers only. Has anyone found anything that gives you a comparison to your current handicap level vs the handicap level that is the ‘goal’.

 

Any input is greatly appreciated ☺️

60feb2b22ef38f79b6a61f6a_Circles Shot Collection Template.pdf

[kintap]

GolfMetrics.  I use it and you need to write down your distance to the hole and lie (FW, green, rough, sand, trouble, etc…) for each shot.  Once you get the hang of it, it isn’t too hard. Just shoot/pace off the distance and mark it on the card after the shot.  It has given me tons of insight into my game and has helped me improve tremendously.

[Luv2kruz]

Taylormade MyRoundPro gives you all the strokes gained stuff without any club tags. They changed the name to MyTaylormade Oncourse and updated the app. I have not tried it since the update and I read some reviews that it has some bugs in it. Someone also suggested that the strokes gained features were behind a paywall now, but it still says free on their website. 

 

So if you want to try a strokes gained app, give it go. Again, its free, so no risk to try it out.

[CFAnPEI]

Fore from Foresight is decent if you want to limit use of a phone. Picks up most swings/strikes of ball just sitting in your pocket. You would have to edit putts and distance as that stuff isn't accurate enough on a phone. 

But for the 10-15 mins of work each round, great SG data.

[Holy Moses]

ShotByShot is nice

[CFAnPEI]

yes, ShotbyShot is very good. Takes 30 seconds after each hole add details from round. Nothing difficult to remember/recall. You don't need to remember every shot. Just basics. Drive, Approach Shot, Shortgame and Putt distance. Most are quick yes/no questions.

$79/yr US might be a deterrence as there are others out there that do similar for much less. 

[Holy Moses]

GolfLogix needs to integrate strokes gained into their app. Would be a fantastic app if they could.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Holy Moses

[sleuth]

I really don't know how you can accurately measure strokes gain without relying on a device. You need to know position and distances to calculate strokes gained.

 

Golfpad is pretty good and only $30 /yr. Provides the basic, overall SG stats for driver, approach, short game, and putting.

 

I'm debating UpGame right now. It's pretty expensive for an annual subscription, so I'm considering the 6mos basic to cover my handicap season. Based on the promo video, the UI and data look really good. I'm just unsure what all the bars in the bar chart mean.

[Luv2kruz]

17 hours ago, sleuth said:

I really don't know how you can accurately measure strokes gain without relying on a device. You need to know position and distances to calculate strokes gained.

You can do it without a phone/device. As you indicated, you just have to record position (tee, rough, fairway, sand, etc) and distance for each shot. Entering the data into a phone/device would be much easier IMO than recording things on a piece of paper for entry later. Both require that you do 'something' after each shot, but it can be done manually that way if you wish. The accuracy is relative to how accurate your distance measuring device is. If you use a GPS or rangefinder, it will be accurate. Pacing off distances would obviously be less accurate. 

 

Overall, the are some downsides to strokes gained that not many talk about. The main one is how to take the information and put an action plan for improvement together. For example, if you are told that you are losing 2 strokes in your short game, how do you head to the short game practice area and reduce those 2 strokes. In order to do that effectively, you need to know both your performance and the underlying benchmark. So if I chip from 25 yards to an average of 20 ft and the benchmark is 15ft, then I know what I am trying to achieve when I go and practice.

 

So, unless the app/service gives you the ability to drill down and also shows you the corresponding benchmark to that stat, I find that the strokes gained stuff becomes a nice way to show you where you are weak, but after that, I don't find it helpful.

[RCGA]

Is there an offline excel based stroke gained method? 

 

I hate messing with these apps during a round, especially when trying to map out putting distances. They're all so glitchy. I'd rather right my stats on a card, take a photo of it, and enter that data in the evening.  

[RCGA]

On 3/1/2022 at 11:51 PM, Luv2kruz said:

Taylormade MyRoundPro gives you all the strokes gained stuff without any club tags. They changed the name to MyTaylormade Oncourse and updated the app. I have not tried it since the update and I read some reviews that it has some bugs in it. Someone also suggested that the strokes gained features were behind a paywall now, but it still says free on their website. 

 

So if you want to try a strokes gained app, give it go. Again, its free, so no risk to try it out.

 

Glitchy and unintuitive.

 

Can't figure out how to move the flag, and can't get a handle on how exactly I move on from shot to shot. 

 

I couldn't even enter an entire round, and I have a masters degree in IT.

[ezpz]

Upgame is really good but expensive. I used golfstatlab for a year but manual entry during rounds was just too much.

[sleuth]

3 hours ago, Luv2kruz said:

You can do it without a phone/device. As you indicated, you just have to record position (tee, rough, fairway, sand, etc) and distance for each shot. Entering the data into a phone/device would be much easier IMO than recording things on a piece of paper for entry later. Both require that you do 'something' after each shot, but it can be done manually that way if you wish. The accuracy is relative to how accurate your distance measuring device is. If you use a GPS or rangefinder, it will be accurate. Pacing off distances would obviously be less accurate. 

 

Overall, the are some downsides to strokes gained that not many talk about. The main one is how to take the information and put an action plan for improvement together. For example, if you are told that you are losing 2 strokes in your short game, how do you head to the short game practice area and reduce those 2 strokes. In order to do that effectively, you need to know both your performance and the underlying benchmark. So if I chip from 25 yards to an average of 20 ft and the benchmark is 15ft, then I know what I am trying to achieve when I go and practice.

 

So, unless the app/service gives you the ability to drill down and also shows you the corresponding benchmark to that stat, I find that the strokes gained stuff becomes a nice way to show you where you are weak, but after that, I don't find it helpful.

Yep I feel you. This is why I'm really debating UpGame. It looks like it really drills down past the high level SG for driver, iron, wedge, putter. The few videos I am able to find really makes the app look quite impressive.

[Luv2kruz]

On 3/4/2022 at 5:24 PM, RCGA said:

 

Glitchy and unintuitive.

 

Can't figure out how to move the flag, and can't get a handle on how exactly I move on from shot to shot. 

 

I couldn't even enter an entire round, and I have a masters degree in IT.

 

The only place where I found the app to cumbersome was entering putts. I played around with it and found method which made it fairly easy which involving moving the flag to the desired location and then there is a little known way to enter the distance in feet manually, instead of trying to tap the screen and adjust the distance with your finger. When you enter the distance first, it puts a circle of that distance around the flag and then you just move the dot to whichever direction you came from. 

 

Other than that, the rest of the app has run pretty smooth for me. 

[kiani]

@AussieGuy I totally agree with you in "I like the idea of manually keeping stats (circles has a great downloadable sheet) and then inputting after the round.". I don't like playing with my phone while on the course, a total distraction.

 

We're actually building a tool to calculate strokes gained (among other things), we're still developing it but you can already use it if you want: https://golfity.com/

 

Please give it a try and tells us what you think!

Thanks!

[bellgolf]

On 3/1/2022 at 12:29 AM, AussieGuy said:

Hi all,

 

Just wondering if anyone has had good success with any of the strokes gained services that are out there.

 

I really don’t want to have to tag clubs, or be phone reliant. I like the idea of manually keeping stats (circles has a great downloadable sheet) and then inputting after the round. Also a lot of the services give the option of scratch or pro golfers only. Has anyone found anything that gives you a comparison to your current handicap level vs the handicap level that is the ‘goal’.

 

Any input is greatly appreciated ☺️

60feb2b22ef38f79b6a61f6a_Circles Shot Collection Template.pdf 477.2 kB · 28 downloads

 

On 3/4/2022 at 3:21 PM, RCGA said:

Is there an offline excel based stroke gained method? 

 

I hate messing with these apps during a round, especially when trying to map out putting distances. They're all so glitchy. I'd rather right my stats on a card, take a photo of it, and enter that data in the evening.  

 

I made this google sheet that calculates Strokes Gained and compares it to Scratch, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 handicaps.  I haven't had a ton of time to refine it.  But it works, and it's insanely easy.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GM2VvyzVvePFaFUFKnnzfv802AEpPcU3YSN4g2rx8aw/edit?usp=sharing

[Luv2kruz]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:54 PM, bellgolf said:

 

 

I made this google sheet that calculates Strokes Gained and compares it to Scratch, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 handicaps.  I haven't had a ton of time to refine it.  But it works, and it's insanely easy.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GM2VvyzVvePFaFUFKnnzfv802AEpPcU3YSN4g2rx8aw/edit?usp=sharing

Interesting. Where are the data tables for each of the handicap levels? I only see one base table. 

[bellgolf]

1 hour ago, Luv2kruz said:

Interesting. Where are the data tables for each of the handicap levels? I only see one base table. 

 

They are just hidden in minimized cells to keep the aesthetic of the spreadsheet.

 

[kiani]

Thanks @bellgolf, very interesting worksheet. Regarding the tables for each handicap level (AC2 to AF7), I understand you are just adding a value to the total strokes gained vs PRO, not to each shot. Where did you get the values from?

 

Thanks!

 

[bellgolf]

10 hours ago, kiani said:

Thanks @bellgolf, very interesting worksheet. Regarding the tables for each handicap level (AC2 to AF7), I understand you are just adding a value to the total strokes gained vs PRO, not to each shot. Where did you get the values from?

 

Thanks!

 

 

That is correct, just one value to the total strokes gained for each category.  I could have sworn I got the values from "Every Shot Counts" by Mark Broadie, but to be honest I just skimmed thru and couldn't find the chart.

[Luv2kruz]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:46 PM, bellgolf said:

They are just hidden in minimized cells to keep the aesthetic of the spreadsheet.

Can you unhide to seem them. I am really curious of the differences in some of the numbers. Where did you get this data?

[bellgolf]

1 hour ago, Luv2kruz said:

Can you unhide to seem them. I am really curious of the differences in some of the numbers. Where did you get this data?

 

If you re-click the link, the new spreadsheet has all the data in the "REFERENCED CHARTS".  So a Pro is 1.78 strokes better off the tee than a scratch,and 7.53 better than 25 handicap, per 18 holes.

 

The pro strokes gained I got from "Every Shot Counts" by Mark Broadie.  I could have sworn I got the comparisons from there as well, but I can't find it.  But I didn't just make them up.  🙂  There is a possibility I got them from Arccos or Shot Scope.

 

[Luv2kruz]

On 5/3/2022 at 12:35 PM, bellgolf said:

 

If you re-click the link, the new spreadsheet has all the data in the "REFERENCED CHARTS".  So a Pro is 1.78 strokes better off the tee than a scratch,and 7.53 better than 25 handicap, per 18 holes.

 

The pro strokes gained I got from "Every Shot Counts" by Mark Broadie.  I could have sworn I got the comparisons from there as well, but I can't find it.  But I didn't just make them up.  🙂  There is a possibility I got them from Arccos or Shot Scope.

 

 

Firstly, I think your spreadsheet is great. Not taking anything away from that. But to do the math correctly for each handicap, you need the underlying strokes by distance/lie table for each handicap on their own. They can't be prorated or derived from the pro table. Arccos or Shot Scope usually mine their own data from the users and create tables from that for each handicap level. I don't know of any published tables like the pro one in Broadie's book for each handicap level, so if you have them, I'd really love to see them. I have been looking for something like this for a while to answer a few questions I have been thinking about for a while.

 

Regardless,

[bellgolf]

1 hour ago, Luv2kruz said:

 

Firstly, I think your spreadsheet is great. Not taking anything away from that. But to do the math correctly for each handicap, you need the underlying strokes by distance/lie table for each handicap on their own. They can't be prorated or derived from the pro table.

 

 

Yeah I 100% agree with you.  I believe to have access to that data you would have to be Arccos or Shot Scope, as they are the only ones I believe that are tracking non pro players every shot thru their software.  So for sure not perfectly accurate, however for the purpose of tracking improvement or identifying where the best place to put focused practice, it is just as helpful.

I'm kinda laughing inside cause I truly cannot remember where I got the handicap comparison.  I know in the last 6 months I have read Mark Brodie's book, watched and read everything that Decade has to offer, and researched Strokes Gained as much as I can.  One thing I know, those differences were at some point published by someone that knew that they were talking about, cause I know I didn't just make them up.  🙂  I also am nearly 100% certain that the chart I found was a gross generalization (not based on a chart for each handicap but a general 18 hole difference) that at some point was accurate.

 

Also to be clear, the SG per shot that the spreadsheet shows is compared to touring pro, then the total for each category are adjusted for.  As you correctly stated, I have no way of calculating and comparing each shot's SG for a specific handicap.

 

[North Butte]

A long, long time ago (but not in a galaxy far, far away) I did a set of baseline computations for my game at the time, using an approach not very different than Strokes Gained (although Broadie had not done his thing yet as were no ShotLink data from the Tour back then). Handicap was probably around 20 or maybe if it was long enough ago it might have even been a couple strokes higher. But anyway, I had the distance-vs-expected-strokes computed from the fairway, the rough and a category I just called "other". So I had tables saying on average I took 2.36 strokes to hole out from 25 yards in the fairway, etc., etc. all specific to my actual recorded rounds. 

 

My goal at the time was to be able to assess my play at any given time by computing what would now be called Strokes Gained versus my own baseline. Presumably I'd be improving over time so I'd see that most rounds I was scoring in less than the expected number of strokes for each lie/distance combination.

 

After a while I kind of lost interest in the whole project and then a few years later Strokes Gained came about. So from that point on I've always just compared stuff to the version of SG computed by whatever app I've used at the time. I sometimes wish I'd kept up with my own method but my god was it time-consuming. 

 

[_chs_]

On 3/4/2022 at 3:21 PM, RCGA said:

Is there an offline excel based stroke gained method? 

 

I hate messing with these apps during a round, especially when trying to map out putting distances. They're all so glitchy. I'd rather right my stats on a card, take a photo of it, and enter that data in the evening.  

Hey there, 

 

I am curious if you came up with a solution to avoid fiddling with your phone during your round? 

 

Thanks in advance

[Holy Moses]

10 hours ago, _chs_ said:

Hey there, 

 

I am curious if you came up with a solution to avoid fiddling with your phone during your round? 

 

Thanks in advance

Shot by Shot has a printout that you can use to write down your shots. You can input the data to the app after the round.

 

https://www.shotbyshot.com/Portals/81/scorecard_4-2015.pdf?ver=2018-01-18-104314-997

 

[kiani]

I also prefer not to use my phone during the round, I find it too distracting.

 

I've tried several of the printouts but I find them a bit complicated and I also forget to print them before going to the play.

 

I use the regular scorecard of each course. Normally the scorecards have 4-5 empty rows, which is enough for me to write distance and lie for each shot.

[RCGA]

On 5/7/2022 at 2:24 PM, _chs_ said:

Hey there, 

 

I am curious if you came up with a solution to avoid fiddling with your phone during your round? 

 

Thanks in advance

 

The only solution I've found is to use a scorecard. They're always available and most golf "things" accommodate them (carts, bags, push carts, etc.) 

Anyone can remember their score, so I use the 4 lines for:

 

2nd shot distance 

Chip/3rd shot distance 

Putt one distance

Putt two distance

 

Any 3rd putts are most likely within 2ft. I pace off all the putts I can and get close enough (one step per 3ft). 

 

Take a photo with your phone and then toss the card after the round. 

 

 

[MTgolfer]

I feel like any form of stat tracking is inherently disruptive. I do like to keep them so I keep trying different ways. I’m currently on the Arccos system. It’s fine but needs some work after every hole and I need my phone to do it. Not ideal. My favorite so far has been a Garmin watch. You have to do a little bit at the end of each hole, mainly to keep score. Other than that it’s pretty easy. I like the stats from Arccos better.