How do LPGA players make an income when they're not making the cut?

[pmcuk]

Can you guys explain the economics of being a LPGA player? Where does the income come from when you're not making the cut in most events?

 

Is the income from teaching and being attached to the staff of clubs or what? And what's the average expense of being on the tour, including travel, per diem etc? 

 

Are some players having to drop off the tour for economic reasons or do they all stay afloat somehow? 

[Notashank]

Most have sponsors that pay their way in return for a percentage of their earnings. If the golfer doesn’t make money the sponsor losses money 

[JungleJimbo]

40 minutes ago, pmcuk said:

Can you guys explain the economics of being a LPGA player? Where does the income come from when you're not making the cut in most events?

 

Is the income from teaching and being attached to the staff of clubs or what? And what's the average expense of being on the tour, including travel, per diem etc? 

 

Are some players having to drop off the tour for economic reasons or do they all stay afloat somehow? 

@pmcuk There was a Golf Digest podcast/ detailed article on journeywomen LPGA players and the “bootstrapping” / perpetual hustle-hustle-hustle involved. (Circa Oct 2020)
 

here’s the Link. 

 

(Nov 2021 four-part series/ “Best of” compilation: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/podcast-money-pga-tour-lpga-tour

 

 

(Oct2020) “Our latest podcast examines the financial realities of the average LPGA Tour player”: https://www.golfdigest.com/story/lpga-tour-finances-podcast/

 

From Nov 2021:

“To celebrate the completion of two seasons of Local Knowledge, we’re releasing a special four-part series where we revisit some of our favorite episodes.

The second installment is all about money. How do you afford pro golf when you’re just starting out? Who’s making a ton of money? Who’s making too little?

We first look at the PGA Tour, and the big purses and huge endorsement deals modern players earn. From Arnie to Tiger, we explore how the tour evolved into its current lucrative state.

 

From there, we look at the LPGA Tour (9:44 mark), where players’ financial situations are more precarious. While top players can make a good living, as you move down the money list, things get less comfortable. We talk to LPGA Tour players and other in the industry about the financial realities of being a female Tour player.

We next look at how expensive Tour life is, and how up-and-comers afford it (19:53 mark). One means of doing so, which the episode is based on, is players finding a single benefactor to fund them—known jokingly as "a Sugar Daddy." Often done over a handshake instead of a formal contract, these deals can get complicated.

Edited April 28, 2022 by JungleJimbo

[JungleJimbo]

2 hours ago, pmcuk said:

Can you guys explain the economics of being a LPGA player? Where does the income come from when you're not making the cut in most events?

 

Is the income from teaching and being attached to the staff of clubs or what? And what's the average expense of being on the tour, including travel, per diem etc? 

 

Are some players having to drop off the tour for economic reasons or do they all stay afloat somehow? 

@pmcuk FYI this GolfWRX article (from Nov2021)= also relevant to your question?

 

https://www.golfwrx.com/664995/former-lpga-pro-shares-detailed-breakdown-of-expenses-for-a-year-on-symetra-tour/

[OnTheBag]

The short answer is that most don't.  Great info posted by @JungleJimbo above.  

 

Here's a link to a reply I posted to a thread a while back.  Sponsorship money pays some of the day to day bills, but if the player isn't in the top 25 almost every week, the LPGA purses make breaking even tough.  If the player isn't making cuts, they are hemorrhaging cash at an alarming rate.  

 

Most of the time, my paychecks came from the agent while the younger player was getting her feet planted.  In 30+ years on the bag, I only had a couple of established players that were in the money every week.

 

 

 

[Golf Dino]

6 hours ago, pmcuk said:

Can you guys explain the economics of being a LPGA player? Where does the income come from when you're not making the cut in most events?

 

Not an LPGA player, but a situation that is not too uncommon among the women.  She is also an LET player this season:

 

https://bit.ly/GoingAll-In

[OnTheBag]

50 minutes ago, Golf Dino said:

 

Not an LPGA player, but a situation that is not too uncommon among the women.  She is also an LET player this season:

 

https://bit.ly/GoingAll-In

LET payouts are pathetic, especially with the high cost of living in Europe.  

[Golf Dino]

43 minutes ago, OnTheBag said:

LET payouts are pathetic, especially with the high cost of living in Europe.  

 

 

Sad isn't it . . . And the LET has more in prize money than the Epson/Symetra Tour.   Is it any wonder that many of the Asian players stay at home and try to play on either the JLPGA (preferably) or the KLPGA when their prize money is fairly high and the travel is limited - rhetorically speaking.

[OnTheBag]

12 minutes ago, Golf Dino said:

 

 

Sad isn't it . . . And the LET has more in prize money than the Epson/Symetra Tour.   Is it any wonder that many of the Asian players stay at home and try to play on either the JLPGA (preferably) or the KLPGA when their prize money is fairly high and the travel is limited - rhetorically speaking.

It really is.  I did 4 seasons in Europe and 1 in Japan.  The JLPGA prize money made my cut pretty sweet for a top 5.  Even with a winner on the LET, my cut barely covered expenses.  

[Titleist_PT23]

Hope players can make more money across the board but if they can't that's their problem.  Truth is people burn cash funding hopes and dreams in "everyday" jobs too.  There is no law that says a "professional" whatever needs to make a comfortable living.

 

Honestly, I know everyone here loves the game but this seems just like the people that want someone else to pay for their student loans.

 

I've said it before but the two options are a) figure out how to get more money coming in the door (for the tour collectively) or b) re-distribute the purses so the top makes less and the bottom makes more.  In the extreme, give the winner $143 more than the last place finisher.

[mikedellgolf]

On 4/28/2022 at 12:55 PM, OnTheBag said:

LET payouts are pathetic, especially with the high cost of living in Europe.  

I listened to Gabby's podcast and by looking at her appearance, Gabby definitely has the "it" factor.  What Gabby needs is a better agent.  What her agent needs to do is to promote Gabby to both the high-tech and FinTech industries.  Gabby's "it" factor will get her a lot of money, enough to cover her cost on the LET tour for the next ten years.  $70k/year from a high tech or Fintech company is even less than bread crumbs on the floor.  

[HankScorpio]

4 hours ago, mikedellgolf said:

I listened to Gabby's podcast and by looking at her appearance, Gabby definitely has the "it" factor.  What Gabby needs is a better agent.  What her agent needs to do is to promote Gabby to both the high-tech and FinTech industries.  Gabby's "it" factor will get her a lot of money, enough to cover her cost on the LET tour for the next ten years.  $70k/year from a high tech or Fintech company is even less than bread crumbs on the floor.  

It definitely highlights the challenges that many players face.  Glad to see her perseverance resulted in some success.  

 

 

[mikedellgolf]

The more I read about Gabby Then, the more I am convinced that Gabby needs to fire her current agent and hire a new one.  Gabby's background is Chinese, Indonesian and Dutch.  That makes Gabby VERY marketable in the Asia/Pacific market.  Asian people love Euro-Asians, and we can't get enough of it.  Ellien Gu is raking in so much money from endorsements in China because she is an Olympic gold medal winner but also because she is half Chinese and half white.  Gabby should make even more money than Gu because she plays golf, the most exclusive sport in Asia, and Gabby has the "it" factor.  Gabby should be raking in at least 10M/year in endorsements in the China and Asia/Pacific market.  She shouldn't be struggling for money like this.

 

 

[ChronicSlicer]

6 hours ago, mikedellgolf said:

The more I read about Gabby Then, the more I am convinced that Gabby needs to fire her current agent and hire a new one.  Gabby's background is Chinese, Indonesian and Dutch.  That makes Gabby VERY marketable in the Asia/Pacific market.  Asian people love Euro-Asians, and we can't get enough of it.  Ellien Gu is raking in so much money from endorsements in China because she is an Olympic gold medal winner but also because she is half Chinese and half white.  Gabby should make even more money than Gu because she plays golf, the most exclusive sport in Asia, and Gabby has the "it" factor.  Gabby should be raking in at least 10M/year in endorsements in the China and Asia/Pacific market.  She shouldn't be struggling for money like this.

 

 

Nothing against Gabby but why should the 507th ranked player in the world who has managed 1 win and 1 other top ten in 42 career professional events command 10M in endorsements? No offense but her ethnicity alone ain't gonna make that happen.That's completely insane. Far as I can tell, she hasn't even played an LPGA Tour event. ( I could be wrong, but if she has it's not listed on the Rolex Rankings events played)

[Seamus_McDuff]

Then’s biggest decision right now is how to go about the rest of her year. With an EPSON win it would make sense to try to finish Top 10 and get her card but she also has LET status. She’s currently entered in at least the next two LET events — including this week — but not the next EPSON event. 

[mikedellgolf]

10 hours ago, ChronicSlicer said:

Nothing against Gabby but why should the 507th ranked player in the world who has managed 1 win and 1 other top ten in 42 career professional events command 10M in endorsements? No offense but her ethnicity alone ain't gonna make that happen.That's completely insane. Far as I can tell, she hasn't even played an LPGA Tour event. ( I could be wrong, but if she has it's not listed on the Rolex Rankings events played)

Kylie Jenner came out of nowhere to make lot of money and she doesn't have the look that Then has.  Then will be a big hit in Asia/Pacific just by her ethnicity alone.  She needs to hire a better agent and public relation team.

[Forged4life]

4 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

Kylie Jenner came out of nowhere to make lot of money and she doesn't have the look that Then has.  Then will be a big hit in Asia/Pacific just by her ethnicity alone.  She needs to hire a better agent and public relation team.

Is Kylie on the LPGA tour?

 

she didn’t “come out of nowhere”. She from probably the most famous family on earth (unfortunately) and her whole life has been on tv. 
 

Not sure how this is even a comparison 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Forged4life

[fairways4life]

53 minutes ago, mikedellgolf said:

Kylie Jenner came out of nowhere to make lot of money and she doesn't have the look that Then has.  Then will be a big hit in Asia/Pacific just by her ethnicity alone.  She needs to hire a better agent and public relation team.

 

I don't know if I would call her situation "coming out of nowhere." 

[Phreddy]

Our family has hosted players from the Symetra/Epson tour in the past.  While it is not a direct comparison to the LPGA, it is illustrative.  The general consensus among the players we have known was that between travel, lodging, food and entry fees a player would lose $50,000.00 /season if they played in all the Symetra/Epson tour events, made every cut but finished outside the top 5.  For a developmental tour the entry fees were stupidly high.  Without corporate sponsorship or a moneyed backer it is a tough row to hoe.  While there is certainly more money floating around the LPGA tour in purses and sponsorship dollars the journeywoman player is pinching pennies.  You don't see "Netjets" labels plastered on every LPGA player like you do on the PGA tour and the cost of flying commercial these days, particularly with $100/barrel oil, has got to be a budget killer.

[JungleJimbo]

On 5/3/2022 at 3:25 AM, mikedellgolf said:

The more I read about Gabby Then, the more I am convinced that Gabby needs to fire her current agent and hire a new one.  Gabby's background is Chinese, Indonesian and Dutch.  That makes Gabby VERY marketable in the Asia/Pacific market.  Asian people love Euro-Asians, and we can't get enough of it.  Ellien Gu is raking in so much money from endorsements in China because she is an Olympic gold medal winner but also because she is half Chinese and half white.  Gabby should make even more money than Gu because she plays golf, the most exclusive sport in Asia, and Gabby has the "it" factor.  Gabby should be raking in at least 10M/year in endorsements in the China and Asia/Pacific market.  She shouldn't be struggling for money like this.

 

 

 

On 5/3/2022 at 10:09 AM, ChronicSlicer said:

Nothing against Gabby but why should the 507th ranked player in the world who has managed 1 win and 1 other top ten in 42 career professional events command 10M in endorsements? No offense but her ethnicity alone ain't gonna make that happen.That's completely insane. Far as I can tell, she hasn't even played an LPGA Tour event. ( I could be wrong, but if she has it's not listed on the Rolex Rankings events played)

"+1" w.r.t. @ChronicSlicer's view that those quoted figures = "10M/year in endorsements" are unlikely for a pro golfer (for now).  

This GolfWeek article provides some context, e.g. the LPGA ranked #1 and #2 (JYK and Nelly Korda) were the only LPGA golf pro's on the "Top 10 endorsements" list ( and still made significantly less than $10mil).  


https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/01/14/golf-forbes-highest-paid-female-athletes-jin-young-ko-nelly-korda/ 

 

IMHO... Eileen Gu's endorsements = a confluence of many things, e.g.
(A) Circumstances/Situation: i.e. The Beijing Winter Olympics, and her switch to representing China along with dominance in her sport / real potential for winning a Winter Olympics gold medal  (hence prominent exposure on TV both in China and the USA),

coupled with

(B) Eileen's ability to transcend her sport into the world of celebrity endorsements/fashion/etc (along with her bi-lingual English/ native Mandarin Chinese language ability & cross-cultural personality)

 

 

..Details: Refer to the WSJ analysis (Youtube video) linked below, "Olympian Eileen Gu’s Marketing Power: The Risks and Rewards for Brands | WSJ" (17Feb2022)

 

====

I doubt there's currently a similar confluence of (A) and (B) that would be enablers for any LPGA pro to get to Eileen Gu's level of commercial endorsements?
(IMHO... perhaps Michelle Wie was the nearest comparative?)

 

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/while-americans-watched-the-super-bowl-china-was-honed-in-on-olympic-star-eileen-gu-051411660.html 

Quote

Quote: "Gu is quite literally the face of these Olympics. Her image is everywhere in China, present on commercials, billboards and every single shopping bag handed out at the Olympics’ official stores. She's also a flashpoint of geopolitical controversy; raised American but skiing for China..."

@18majors started a thread on LPGA purses & endorsements, which has related useful info ... including instagram follower stats  😬🚫🤬 (Link below).

 

📝Notwithstanding the above... there are still many many LPGA pros (and others just starting their pro golf aspirations... eg Gabriella Then?) who are deserving of our attention/support (irrespective of whether they can perform gymnastics🤸‍♀️/ backflips on-demand, similar to Carly Booth in the twitter link below!)

 

 

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by JungleJimbo

[Bizzle80]

On 5/2/2022 at 12:25 PM, mikedellgolf said:

The more I read about Gabby Then, the more I am convinced that Gabby needs to fire her current agent and hire a new one.  Gabby's background is Chinese, Indonesian and Dutch.  That makes Gabby VERY marketable in the Asia/Pacific market.  Asian people love Euro-Asians, and we can't get enough of it.  Ellien Gu is raking in so much money from endorsements in China because she is an Olympic gold medal winner but also because she is half Chinese and half white.  Gabby should make even more money than Gu because she plays golf, the most exclusive sport in Asia, and Gabby has the "it" factor.  Gabby should be raking in at least 10M/year in endorsements in the China and Asia/Pacific market.  She shouldn't be struggling for money like this.

 

 

 

HAHA. I cant believe how ridiculous your thinking is. You are bashing women's sports financials in one forum and then here suggesting Then should be making 10M in endorsements because she's a middling second tier pro, but kinda pretty? Eileen Gu was a high end runway model AND a world class athlete BEFORE the Olympics. Now she's a gold medal winner and STILL one of the most in demand models. Gu was a Louis Vuitton ambassador even prior to winning gold. Then is cute - for a golfer. This is coming from someone who actually knows Gabby.

 

You want to help Gabby make more money? Support women's golf by watching it.

 

 

[iBanesto]

On 5/3/2022 at 10:45 PM, mikedellgolf said:

Kylie Jenner came out of nowhere to make lot of money and she doesn't have the look that Then has.  Then will be a big hit in Asia/Pacific just by her ethnicity alone.  She needs to hire a better agent and public relation team.

 

[JungleJimbo]

On 5/3/2022 at 3:25 AM, mikedellgolf said:

The more I read about Gabby Then, the more I am convinced that Gabby needs to fire her current agent and hire a new one.  Gabby's background is Chinese, Indonesian and Dutch.  That makes Gabby VERY marketable in the Asia/Pacific market.  Asian people love Euro-Asians, and we can't get enough of it.  Ellien Gu is raking in so much money from endorsements in China because she is an Olympic gold medal winner but also because she is half Chinese and half white.  Gabby should make even more money than Gu because she plays golf, the most exclusive sport in Asia, and Gabby has the "it" factor.  Gabby should be raking in at least 10M/year in endorsements in the China and Asia/Pacific market.  She shouldn't be struggling for money like this.

 

 

For the Gabby Then fans 🙂 
 

 

 

 

[Rapidcat]

Gabby Then, a copywriter's dream:

 

Now and Then

Then and now

Go on, Then

Then and there

There and Then

If not Then, when?

If not Then, who?

etc

 

Bring on that $10m!

[Golf Dino]

 

Again, I've said now and then, but I am happy for Gabby.  She set the course record at 64 . . . only to see it beaten by the leader a few hours later after she posted a 63.  

[Seamus_McDuff]

Amazing she’s playing so well with all the travel. 

[JungleJimbo]

@Rapidcat and/or @Raving Shanker... were you that “guardian angel 👼 “ who helped fix Genevieve Ling’s flat/exploded tire? (Timestamp ~40s), and saved her journey to the NSW Open at Bonville recently?

 

🤔 🗣Quote at timestamp ~9m47s... “Wait, what is this labelled as “Australian Meat 🇦🇺 “ in this sausage roll... it better not be kangaroo! 🦘 “

 

(isn’t Roo meat = Super Lean & quite delicious?)

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by JungleJimbo

[Golf Dino]

@JungleJimbo . . . you mean LING and not KING . . . as in you must have been using a device with predictive text!  🙂 

 

[JungleJimbo]

39 minutes ago, Golf Dino said:

@JungleJimbo . . . you mean LING and not KING . . . as in you must have been using a device with predictive text!  🙂 

 

@Golf Dino... yes... darn auto-correct! 🤬thanks for your eagle-eyed spot!🦅🧐
pity Genevieve Ling had a blowup on one hole in R4 (a NINE on a par4 hole 13!) ... circa R3 she was only a couple shots off the lead!

https://ladieseuropeantour.com/reports-page/?tourn=NSWO&tclass=rnk&report=tmscores~season=2022~params=P*4ESC04~#/profile

[Rapidcat]

10 hours ago, JungleJimbo said:

@Rapidcat and/or @Raving Shanker... were you that “guardian angel 👼 “ who helped fix Genevieve Ling’s flat/exploded tire? (Timestamp ~40s), and saved her journey to the NSW Open at Bonville recently?

 

🤔 🗣Quote at timestamp ~9m47s... “Wait, what is this labelled as “Australian Meat 🇦🇺 “ in this sausage roll... it better not be kangaroo! 🦘 “

 

(isn’t Roo meat = Super Lean & quite delicious?)

 

@JungleJimboAh, the sausage roll (no Kangaroo meat), Australia’s contribution to haute cuisine, just like the meat pie (with ‘dead’ horse’ = sauce, never ketchup if you want to be authentic):

In Adelaide of course they have the pie floater, an upside-down pie with pea soup or pea puree ladled over it, often the consumer may add tomato sauce, Worcestershire sauce or even malt vinegar – food of the Gods, tastes much better than it looks (thank heavens):