What point does someone move to X in driver?

[justcallmemoses]

At what swing speed range do people move into X flex in the driver? 110mph range?

 

I’m only 103-104 average and fitter recommended going X flex but didn’t have the stiff version to demo.

 

Was definitely the best of the bunch in the Cobra LTDx LS 10.5 head with the Tensei AV Raw White 65g X flex. Would it be worth holding off and waiting to hit the 65g stiff model of the same shaft? Conscious the X would get too much effort out on the course opposed to hitting 20-30 balls in a row.

 

[gdb99]

You would probably get more responses in the stiff flex and up forum. 👍

[Stuart_G]

18 hours ago, justcallmemoses said:

At what swing speed range do people move into X flex in the driver? 110mph range?

 

It's not about swing speed - although that's not a bad place to start the fitting process, it should never be used to make any final decisions.   And FWIW - your in the borderland between stiff and x-stiff.

 

The short and simple answer is when the x-stiff version of any particular model performs and feels better than the stiff flex version.

 

And just because it might turn out that way for one particular model - doesn't mean it will be true for other shaft models.

 

18 hours ago, justcallmemoses said:

Was definitely the best of the bunch in the Cobra LTDx LS 10.5 head with the Tensei AV Raw White 65g X flex. Would it be worth holding off and waiting to hit the 65g stiff model of the same shaft?

 

It would certainly give a bit more assurances if that's what you're after but if you really are happy with both the performance and the feel of the x-stiff, that's all that really matters.  A good percentage of players can play a fairly wide range of stiffness profiles successfully.   The ones that are more sensitive would generally not like the feel if it were too stiff for them.

 

18 hours ago, justcallmemoses said:

Conscious the X would get too much effort out on the course opposed to hitting 20-30 balls in a row.

 

 

You should never test/demo any club or shaft for more than 2-3 shots in a row before switching out to any alternative options.   

 

But if it feels like you have to work harder than "normal" in your swing, that is one common indication that the shaft might be too stiff for you.

 

[grochol17]

Like Stuart said, it's all about what actually works for you, not what you think should or should not work for you.  That being said, if you're doubting the x-flex, then definitely wait until you can try the stiff, otherwise you might worry about the x-flex on every swing you make, which is not a good place to be.

[Lord Helmet]

I transitioned to X couple years ago on a whim - just wanted to try it.  Was amazed at how better the swing felt and then seeing the performance of the shots.  One companies X aint gonna be like the others so be wary there.  I can play Fuji and UST X flex just fine so I stick with those.

g luck.

[alittleoverpar]

I'm around 105 mph and have been using x flex for several years.  However, it is really a shaft-by-shaft decision.  Flexes vary considerably between shaft brands and even models within the same manufacturer.  It's best to try them if at all possible.  If x works/feels better go with it.

[Hammer_Hands]

I've heard two opposing yet similar pieces of advice for players in between flexes:

 

Play the lightest flex you can control

versus

Play the stiffest flex you can elevate

 

So you could say it comes down to what is most important.  Are you more interested in getting a higher trajectory (with a lighter flex) or are you more interested in getting better dispersion control (with a stiffer flex).  

 

Personally, I'm in the same swingspeed range as you and I choose the stiffer flex every time, because keeping everything under control is the highest priority for me.  Also I have a pretty quick transition and hit down on the ball pretty aggressively with fairway woods and irons, so xflex helps me with dispersion.

[VNutz]

On 10/18/2022 at 2:41 PM, justcallmemoses said:

At what swing speed range do people move into X flex in the driver? 110mph range?

 

I’m only 103-104 average and fitter recommended going X flex but didn’t have the stiff version to demo.

 

Was definitely the best of the bunch in the Cobra LTDx LS 10.5 head with the Tensei AV Raw White 65g X flex. Would it be worth holding off and waiting to hit the 65g stiff model of the same shaft? Conscious the X would get too much effort out on the course opposed to hitting 20-30 balls in a row.

 

It's different for each person, and for each shaft. I've seen some people 110+ in Stiff, others around 105 in Xstiff, with the assumed reasoning being their transition. Personally, if the shaft is true to flex, at 105-110 I tend to lean towards 70g Stiff shafts, I find Xstiff shafts can become a little demanding towards the end of the round if I'm tiring a little.

 

I've found a lot of the stock shafts the past 5-10 years feel whippy and overly torquey, so in those I would go X. But in anything decent aftermarket I usually end up in the 70S.

[Stuart_G]

51 minutes ago, joelco said:

I've heard two opposing yet similar pieces of advice for players in between flexes:

 

Play the lightest flex you can control

versus

Play the stiffest flex you can elevate

 

So you could say it comes down to what is most important.  Are you more interested in getting a higher trajectory (with a lighter flex) or are you more interested in getting better dispersion control (with a stiffer flex).  

 

Yes, some people say that.  Personally I think neither have any validity to them.

The reality is that everyone is different so there is no one single good approach.   And also why there are completely conflicting views.   People find some approach works best for them and they try to push it off on everyone else.

 

But as far as generalizations - they aren't really very good either.  Dispersion and control will not automatically increase with stiffness for the vast majority of ams.  Nor will launch automatically increase as the shaft gets softer or automatically lower as the shaft gets stiffer.  And for everyone (including pros) for which stiffness does have a significant influence on dispersion, the best dispersion will always come when the stiffness feel has the best match with the players expectations for how they think the shaft should feel.   Going both stiffer and softer from that feel can make dispersion worse.

 

So find the shaft that's just right for you.  There is no benefit to straying either softer or firmer from that ideal.

 

[Denny100]

On 10/20/2022 at 5:02 PM, joelco said:

I've heard two opposing yet similar pieces of advice for players in between flexes:

 

Play the lightest flex you can control

versus

Play the stiffest flex you can elevate

 

So you could say it comes down to what is most important.  Are you more interested in getting a higher trajectory (with a lighter flex) or are you more interested in getting better dispersion control (with a stiffer flex).  

 

Personally, I'm in the same swingspeed range as you and I choose the stiffer flex every time, because keeping everything under control is the highest priority for me.  Also I have a pretty quick transition and hit down on the ball pretty aggressively with fairway woods and irons, so xflex helps me with dispersion.

 

Sorry, but this is just a post full of lazy generalisations that get bandied around and all of them are just myths.

 

Everyones heard them before.

 

Shafts too light so theres no control

Shafts stiff so itll hit the ball lower

Shaft is stiffer so dispersion will be smaller

Stiffer flex keeps everything under control

 

etc etc

 

None of them are true UNIVERSALLY. They might be for you, and thats great.

 

The OP should just play whatever he/she likes most, that allows them to deliver the club well to the ball. None of us have any idea what that would be, because there are a myriad of options.

[Ca3l]

Do you trust your fitter? A good fitter who can actually watch your swing and analyze your shots is going to know better than anyone here. At the end of the day though it’s def partially down to personal preference… Did you feel comfortable swinging the x, or did you feel like you needed to swing out of your shoes?

 

Fwiw I swing about 110-112 and have played the tensei av raw white in stiff flex some in the driver. It feels perfectly fine to me, doesn’t feel light or whippy or anything like that.

 

You’d prob be fine and get similar performance from either S or X tbh. But if you’re concerned about the X and it’s going to psych you out then maybe go S or at least hold out to demo first to be safe.

[jarediogolf]

If it’s a big purchase for you I’d ask to come back at another day and swing both the S and X so you can feel good about the money you drop. 
 

You will also have the benefit of hitting on another day to see if it’s still a good fit or if it just happened to be how you were swinging that day. 

[Hammer_Hands]

On 10/20/2022 at 1:03 PM, Stuart_G said:

 

Yes, some people say that.  Personally I think neither have any validity to them.

The reality is that everyone is different so there is no one single good approach.   And also why there are completely conflicting views.   People find some approach works best for them and they try to push it off on everyone else.

 

But as far as generalizations - they aren't really very good either.  Dispersion and control will not automatically increase with stiffness for the vast majority of ams.  Nor will launch automatically increase as the shaft gets softer or automatically lower as the shaft gets stiffer.  And for everyone (including pros) for which stiffness does have a significant influence on dispersion, the best dispersion will always come when the stiffness feel has the best match with the players expectations for how they think the shaft should feel.   Going both stiffer and softer from that feel can make dispersion worse.

 

So find the shaft that's just right for you.  There is no benefit to straying either softer or firmer from that ideal.

 

 

On 10/21/2022 at 7:05 PM, Denny100 said:

 

Sorry, but this is just a post full of lazy generalisations that get bandied around and all of them are just myths.

 

Everyones heard them before.

 

Shafts too light so theres no control

Shafts stiff so itll hit the ball lower

Shaft is stiffer so dispersion will be smaller

Stiffer flex keeps everything under control

 

etc etc

 

None of them are true UNIVERSALLY. They might be for you, and thats great.

 

The OP should just play whatever he/she likes most, that allows them to deliver the club well to the ball. None of us have any idea what that would be, because there are a myriad of options.

Thanks for this feedback.  There seems to be a lot of criticism for making generalizations.  But generalizations are used for a reason - because they are GENERALLY true.   By definition, they will not be true in every case, but these statements will work for the general population and it is a good starting point to help you dial in the specifics.

[vandyfan]

For what it is worth I am in a similar speed as you, (104-106 mph) and I was fit into an X a year ago and went back to a stiff rather quickly. I could hit the X well during my fitting because I was warm and banging driver after driver but on the course I preferred a stiff that I could throttle back on if needed and still get a decent kick (that's how it felt in the shaft). Also I was fit into a low/low profile Hzrdus and I just naturally gravitated back to a blue profile stiff flex shaft that was higher launching. That was just me.

 

Also, major caveat, I don't think I was ever comfortable thinking of myself as an "X-stiff" player, as ridiculous as that sounds. The same as how I never play the tips at any course, would never play blades (even if they produced the best results), etc. I am a bit of a head case, sadly. 

[Stuart_G]

36 minutes ago, joelco said:

 

Thanks for this feedback.  There seems to be a lot of criticism for making generalizations.  But generalizations are used for a reason - because they are GENERALLY true.   By definition, they will not be true in every case, but these statements will work for the general population and it is a good starting point to help you dial in the specifics.

 

Only if the generalizations are actually accurate in the first place can they be helpful - but only to help guide the fitting process.  They should never be used to make final decisions.

 

When I said:

 

On 10/20/2022 at 1:03 PM, Stuart_G said:

But as far as generalizations - they aren't really very good either. 

 

 

I was referring to the validity of those specific generalizations.   Those specific generalizations are in fact NOT generally true will not generally work well or as predicted for any significant percentage of the population.

 

There certainly are some useful generalizations in the context of equipment fitting - but there are a lot more misconceptions that are pushed as generalizations when they really shouldn't be.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Stuart_G

[Bakes0]

Experimenting with a X in my driver now after being in S forever. It's fall in the northeast so I'm just messing around and I like hitting different shaft types and profiles. For reference, I'm a low single digit, I swing it a little above 105 but deal with some early extension with driver and low ball flight from AOA.

 

This past season I played a 50g S "blue" and was generally pleased but it felt sometimes hard for me to control the face I think in part due to the low weight. Wanted to just try something different and went with a heavier "red" profile X shaft and the early results are impressive. I've tried other stiff reds but they spun like crazy. On the range it was coming out low and I was about to chalk it up and move on, but on the course with my normal ball, it's been interestingly good. Even though it's been really cold in 4-5 rounds I'm hitting this thing farther and higher (I've been chasing some height as a low ball hitter) than I did in the summer. In theory the red profile helps with some kick and launch and the heavier weight helps me feel the shaft a bit better in the backswing. More likely than all of that, it's just honeymoon and I'll be on to the next experiment.

 

All in all, you just gotta hit it and see. It's weird what might work despite all the generalizations out there.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Bakes0