New AMG Shallowing Video - Wow...

[otto6457]

58 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Had an instructor back in the early 2000s who took my game to another level. Went from low 70s and an occasional 71/70 to constantly breaking 70 after just a couple months with him. He had me do a drill once where he had me throw the clubhead into the ground about 2 feet behind my trail foot. Reading this thread, I knew it all sounded familiar. 

 

So I grabbed my lesson notes from him...very first lesson note...from November 2004.

 

 

 

 

I have nothing to add to this quite entertaining discussion except one thing.

 

Your handwriting is really nice.  A lost art I tell you.

[getitdaily]

6 minutes ago, otto6457 said:

 

 

I have nothing to add to this quite entertaining discussion except one thing.

 

Your handwriting is really nice.  A lost art I tell you.

Lol. Thanks. But that's not mine. That was the instructor's.  Mine looks like chicken scratch.

[GoGoErky]

Another instructor talking about the arms lowering and independent of the body 

 

https://instagram.com/stories/chrisryangolf/3023001818610549105?igshid=NDk5N2NlZjQ=

[MoneyMan300]

I don't post much, but man this thread is epic!  We got 3d, 2d, swing nerds, cats, graphs, force plates, Monte flexing :), golf coach defenders, hdcp wars, 20 year old lesson notes.  Pure gold, can't wait for more tomorrow.😁

Edited January 25, 2023 by MoneyMan300

[MonteScheinblum]

Chris did an excellent job with Day.  It was more than just better and freer hip turn.  He told me there was more as well.  I was going to ask him about it tonight, as I’m and curious too, but too much going on.

 

Wouldn't it be fun if unloading the right elbow sooner to affect the pitch of the shaft was part of it? I asked him what he thought about that when he and I did that fund raiser with GG at his range a few years back.

Edited January 25, 2023 by MonteScheinblum

[PracticeSwinger]

We need a Monte / Shaun vs GG / Milo 4ball match to settle this… who’s setting up the gofundme… what course?

[Ex Blade User]

8 hours ago, MtlJayMan said:

We need a Monte / Shaun vs GG / Milo 4ball match to settle this… who’s setting up the gofundme… what course?

Only if they’re all hooked up to gears 

[PracticeSwinger]

16 minutes ago, Ex Blade User said:

Only if they’re all hooked up to gears 

Haha... with some members here to tell them how to move from the top...

[kowalgolf]

11 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Had an instructor back in the early 2000s who took my game to another level. Went from low 70s and an occasional 71/70 to constantly breaking 70 after just a couple months with him. He had me do a drill once where he had me throw the clubhead into the ground about 2 feet behind my trail foot. Reading this thread, I knew it all sounded familiar. 

 

So I grabbed my lesson notes from him...very first lesson note...from November 2004.

 

 

I've been playing over 60 yrs. and hit my driver 200-230. Last year I was all in on Broom Force to a point where I carried a broom in my bag for discussion I was hoping. Had 250 yds. on par 5 second shot in a scramble and knew I couldn't get home but it was a scramble and my intent was slam the 3 wood clubhead into the ground inside and way behind the ball. Pushed slightly green high 245 yds. I have not been able to produce that shot again. Synching up that move with rotation is so foreign it's ridiculous.

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, kowalgolf said:

I've been playing over 60 yrs. and hit my driver 200-230. Last year I was all in on Broom Force to a point where I carried a broom in my bag for discussion I was hoping. Had 250 yds. on par 5 second shot in a scramble and knew I couldn't get home but it was a scramble and my intent was slam the 3 wood clubhead into the ground inside and way behind the ball. Pushed slightly green high 245 yds. I have not been able to produce that shot again. Synching up that move with rotation is so foreign it's ridiculous.

If you come from a background of heavy lower body rotation (and probably slide) then you don't need to worry about syncing that move with rotation. Rotation will happen automatically. The body gets pulled through by the arms. 

 

You probably think you need to sync when in reality you need to think "don't fire the hips, let the arms pull them through". I still fall into this trap. It's a responsive lower body not an active lower body. What happens is the hips rotate naturally by momentum unless you just physically stop the hips from turning. 

[airjammer]

39 minutes ago, Ex Blade User said:

Only if they’re all hooked up to gears 

They need to be hooked up to emg machines. Anyone who lowers their chest in transition will look like they didn’t lose any flex in their trail arm even if they are trying to do it.  
 

But even then the question will be are you trying to do that or is that an athletic reaction. 
 

So GG and Milo would show the same or

more trail arm muscle activation due to their lowering and if they didn’t push with the trail arm their trail elbow would be way closer to 45 half way down. They would say see I don’t have get my arms down because they do it by themselves. 
 

Monte and Shaun emg graph would show activation in the trail arm but potentially less due to lack of chest lowering and potentially less force need to prevent the collapse of the trail arm. 
 

Gg and Milo would say if you keep your hands up, lower your chest, and trail side bend (which a lot of beginners struggle to do) and all you have to do is have a lot of rotation to get the club to the ball (which anyone who sits at a desk all day probably can’t do)

 

Monte and Shaun would say if you can lower you arms while not trail side bending (which a lot of better players do too early) and keep your chest fairly level through transition and the early downswing (which anyone who early extends can’t do) then all you have to do rotate your left hip out of the way. 
 

In the end you will end up in the same exact argument. 

[getitdaily]

32 minutes ago, airjammer said:

They need to be hooked up to emg machines. Anyone who lowers their chest in transition will look like they didn’t lose any flex in their trail arm even if they are trying to do it.  
 

But even then the question will be are you trying to do that or is that an athletic reaction. 
 

So GG and Milo would show the same or

more trail arm muscle activation due to their lowering and if they didn’t push with the trail arm their trail elbow would be way closer to 45 half way down. They would say see I don’t have get my arms down because they do it by themselves. 
 

Monte and Shaun emg graph would show activation in the trail arm but potentially less due to lack of chest lowering and potentially less force need to prevent the collapse of the trail arm. 
 

Gg and Milo would say if you keep your hands up, lower your chest, and trail side bend (which a lot of beginners struggle to do) and all you have to do is have a lot of rotation to get the club to the ball (which anyone who sits at a desk all day probably can’t do)

 

Monte and Shaun would say if you can lower you arms while not trail side bending (which a lot of better players do too early) and keep your chest fairly level through transition and the early downswing (which anyone who early extends can’t do) then all you have to do rotate your left hip out of the way. 
 

In the end you will end up in the same exact argument. 

So the two moves you describe 

 

1. Trail arm "activation" which I assume is "dumping the angles"

 

2. Chest lowering

 

What happens if you do both? Just hit it fat?

[Ex Blade User]

I made a comment on Milo’s instagram video that no offense just trying to learn but to my eye it looked like his right arm is opening on the good pivot and he DM’d me that he has tons of gears on elite players and in all of them the right arm angle gets more bend halfway down. Of course I’ve never seen him post any of it. 

[MonteScheinblum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdcleUk-T4U

[airjammer]

22 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

So the two moves you describe 

 

1. Trail arm "activation" which I assume is "dumping the angles"

 

2. Chest lowering

 

What happens if you do both? Just hit it fat?

Yes hit fat or have to early extend. 

[MonteScheinblum]

7 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Yes hit fat or have to early extend. 

Not really.  You can do both.  

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Not really.  You can do both.  

Interesting. My guess here is that the key to not hitting it fat is the lead shoulder moving up and around while not letting the trail shoulder dip...but also not letting the lead shoulder spin out.

 

That lead shoulder separating from the chin certainly can facilitate an angle dump. So long as the lead shoulder doesn't fly out early. 

[MonteScheinblum]

Not one of my best, but chest lowers, elbow unloads and no EE.  I hit the shots offline obviously, but my last fat shot was in 1983.

[MonteScheinblum]

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Not one of my best, but chest lowers, elbow unloads and no EE.  I hit the shots offline obviously, but my last fat shot was in 1983.

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So your chest lowering appears to be what I think it's meant to do...

 

Lowering the chest forces the hips to rotate open. Basically a passive lower body move dominated by an upper body move. Your lead shoulder only opens as much as the hips open.  Arms are firing about as hard and fast as they can.

 

?

 

A few months ago I saw and felt that the chest lowering was basically a move that made the lower body unwind happen. It's rather hard to not open,  from the top of the swing position, if you just lower the upper body first...

[MonteScheinblum]

6 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

So your chest lowering appears to be what I think it's meant to do...

 

Lowering the chest forces the hips to rotate open. Basically a passive lower body move dominated by an upper body move. Your lead shoulder only opens as much as the hips open.  Arms are firing about as hard and fast as they can.

 

?

 

A few months ago I saw and felt that the chest lowering was basically a move that made the lower body unwind happen. It's rather hard to not open,  from the top of the swing position, if you just lower the upper body first...

I don’t like categorizing lower body, upper body, arm dominated swings.

 

It’s a misnomer.  A swing is sequenced properly or it’s not.  This sequence is decent.

[Soloman1]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

They need to be hooked up to emg machines.

 

I’ve been able to measure forces and activation for 200- 300 muscles for over 6 years. This is just the visual, but quantifiable details of forces for each muscle or muscle groups is captured.

 

But, no one cared or cares. Being ahead of the curve is an expensive and losing proposition. People just want a swing tip. Details are messy.

 

 

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

I’ve been able to measure forces and activation for 200- 300 muscles for over 6 years. This is just the visual, but quantifiable details of forces for each muscle or muscle groups is captured.

 

But, no one cared or cares. Being ahead of the curve is an expensive and losing proposition. People just want a swing tip. Details are messy.

 

 

What were you doing, the African anteater ritual?

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, Soloman1 said:

 

I’ve been able to measure forces and activation for 200- 300 muscles for over 6 years. This is just the visual, but quantifiable details of forces for each muscle or muscle groups is captured.

 

But, no one cared or cares. Being ahead of the curve is an expensive and losing proposition. People just want a swing tip. Details are messy.

 

 

I gave you a shout out last night during my presentation at the open forum as one of the people I learned from.

 

So someone does in fact care.

[airjammer]

36 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Not really.  You can do both.  

My mistake as I didn’t correctly quantify what a average amateur would mostly do. 
 

@MonteScheinblumrespectfully you are a freak of nature so you don’t count. 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, airjammer said:
 

@MonteScheinblumyou don’t count. 

You sound like my ex wife

[airjammer]

Just now, MonteScheinblum said:

You sound like my ex wife

I bet for child support you did!

[Zitlow]

2 hours ago, kowalgolf said:

I've been playing over 60 yrs. and hit my driver 200-230. Last year I was all in on Broom Force to a point where I carried a broom in my bag for discussion I was hoping. Had 250 yds. on par 5 second shot in a scramble and knew I couldn't get home but it was a scramble and my intent was slam the 3 wood clubhead into the ground inside and way behind the ball. Pushed slightly green high 245 yds. I have not been able to produce that shot again. Synching up that move with rotation is so foreign it's ridiculous.

That's the thing about golf. People can occasionally get off a really good shot even if they they aren't synced up properly. 

[Soloman1]

24 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I gave you a shout out last night during my presentation at the open forum as one of the people I learned from.

 Learned a lot from you too.

[Soloman1]

26 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

What were you doing, the African anteater ritual?

 

It's cricket, which is very close. No one understands either.