USGA and R&A announce proposal to limit golf ball performance for elite level competition

[TLUBulldogGolf]

34 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

 

So you want to see lots of driver, but you don't want to see them drive it too far. You say you want the pros to use a 190cc driver, but you don't want to see the pros use their 190cc 3-wood too much. 

 

Cool, cool, cool, I guess that makes complete sense... The rollbackers want to see pros challenged by their equipment, not the course. The anti-rollbackers want to see pros challenged by the course, not the equipment. 

Speaking of misrepresenting..

[TLUBulldogGolf]

3 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

What are the opinions on Sawgrass and the distance debate?  Seems to be one of the few courses the challenge the golfer off the tee should they try to drive it 300-330.  Lots of lateral hazards in those zones.

 

interesting some of the longer hitters have been testing 2 woods earlier in the week.

 

It was better in May, generally too soft this time of year though you still have to play really well to put up a score and if you don't you get punished. With no rain by Sunday the greens will have firmed up. I think it's good in that it favors no real play style and makes them think on a lot of the tee shots. 

Edited March 14 by TLUBulldogGolf

[Simpsonia]

1 hour ago, gvogel said:

That is simplistic, and I think that you know it.  I want to see players hit driver it as far as they can, but with more limited equipment.  I think that more limited equipment, particularly driver, would help identify those who really have great skills in putting the ball in play.  I want to see players tested by the course, but using drivers that are more difficult to use.  And I think that 190cc drivers would be too restrictive; 230 would be about right.

 

Simplistic maybe, but was there anything I said that was inaccurate? You have plainly said that you would rather have golfers on easier courses (ie not "tricked out with water") and more difficult equipment. Sawgrass is one of the more difficult courses that really tests pros' abilities, especially their accuracy under pressure, but apparently that's not a skill that you enjoy watching. It seems that you dislike high risk/reward course design, especially when players take agency elect to take a somewhat safer approach (3wood instead of Driver). 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

Just watched a pro leading the current tournament miss the center of his fairway woods face (high and toe).  Ball went in water.  It’s not the only instances they’ve showed during the tournament.
 

It’s a reminder it does happen to tour pros, contrary to what’s being argued in this thread.

[Shilgy]

12 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Just watched a pro leading the current tournament miss the center of his fairway woods face (high and toe).  Ball went in water.  It’s not the only instances they’ve showed during the tournament.
 

It’s a reminder it does happen to tour pros, contrary to what’s being argued in this thread.

I believe what’s been said is that yeah….they can miss the middle occasionally.  Do you really think that would make him/them throttle back to 80% speed though is the question.

 

No matter what they claimed to feel is this throttling back with the old drivers?

 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

24 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I believe what’s been said is that yeah….they can miss the middle occasionally.  Do you really think that would make him/them throttle back to 80% speed though is the question.

 

No matter what they claimed to feel is this throttling back with the old drivers?

 

 

If you referring to tinkering with the sweetspot size on equipment….It would have impact on the game.  To what degree, not exactly sure.  Likely more than what’s being proposed in with a ball rollback.

 

my point was more for the folks that continue to say it doesn’t happen.  It does and it happens often enough we see the best in the world do it on tv, under pressure

 

[clevited]

18 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

If you referring to tinkering with the sweetspot size on equipment….It would have impact on the game.  To what degree, not exactly sure.  Likely more than what’s being proposed in with a ball rollback.

 

my point was more for the folks that continue to say it doesn’t happen.  It does and it happens often enough we see the best in the world do it on tv, under pressure

 

 

Nobody literally means it doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen enough for pro's to be scared to take a full swing at the ball.

[Shilgy]

19 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

If you referring to tinkering with the sweetspot size on equipment….It would have impact on the game.  To what degree, not exactly sure.  Likely more than what’s being proposed in with a ball rollback.

 

my point was more for the folks that continue to say it doesn’t happen.  It does and it happens often enough we see the best in the world do it on tv, under pressure

 

Of course it happens.  We all know that. Yes, there is the occasional shank…or as you pointed out toe hit.  Does that slow anyone’s swing down as some seem to think? 
 

NO

 

 

[Shilgy]

4 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Nobody literally means it doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen enough for pro's to be scared to take a full swing at the ball.

Based on his laughter I guess guys must be taking half chip swings just in case they whiff. 😏

 

Of course they also ignore the fact the pros of old, as a whole, went after it pretty darn hard as well.

Edited March 16 by Shilgy

[Pnwpingi210]

4 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Of course it happens.  We all know that. Yes, there is the occasional shank…or as you pointed out toe hit.  Does that slow anyone’s swing down as some seem to think? 
 

NO

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Based on his laughter I guess guys must be taking half chip swings just in case they whiff.😏

I’m laughing cause you both are speculating.  

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Based on his laughter I guess guys must be taking half chip swings just in case they whiff. 😏

 

Of course they also ignore the fact the pros of old, as a whole, went after it pretty darn hard as well.

And Clark just fatted a shot on 17….that’ll teach him to swing more carefully and slowly I bet.

[Shilgy]

Just now, Pnwpingi210 said:

 

I’m laughing cause you both are speculating.  

Now I gotta admit that’s funny.  You have been stating exactly how much yardage pros and ams will lose with the rollback and there’s not even a ball yet!🤣

[Pnwpingi210]

Just now, Shilgy said:

Now I gotta admit that’s funny.  You have been stating exactly how much yardage pros and ams will lose with the rollback and there’s not even a ball yet!🤣

I think you have me confused.

 

I may have regurgitated what USGA & RA has stated the rollback means to golfers.  To your point nobody knows yet.
 

I did speculate or say in my opinion shrinking the size of head or reducing the sweetspot  size/ increasing the penalty for missing the center of the face will likely be far more impactful to golfers, particularly amateurs than any ball rollback that’s been proposed.

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I think you have me confused.

 

I may have regurgitated what USGA & RA has stated the rollback means to golfers.  To your point nobody knows yet.
 

I did speculate or say in my opinion shrinking the size of head or reducing the sweetspot  size/ increasing the penalty for missing the center of the face will likely be far more impactful to golfers, particularly amateurs than any ball rollback that’s been proposed.

And that’s the key isn’t it?  And why it would probably not happen.  Why would we want to affect the poor player amateurs more than the guys we supposedly “need” the rule for?

[Pnwpingi210]

7 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

And that’s the key isn’t it?  And why it would probably not happen.  Why would we want to affect the poor player amateurs more than the guys we supposedly “need” the rule for?

I certainly don’t want non professional equipment to go backwards in forgiveness.

 

if the best in the world miss the center, I certainly do.

Edited March 17 by Pnwpingi210

[GoGoErky]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Of course it happens.  We all know that. Yes, there is the occasional shank…or as you pointed out toe hit.  Does that slow anyone’s swing down as some seem to think? 
 

NO

 

 

Ask Webb Simpson. I doubt the number of shanks he hit ever caused him to change his approach or throttle back

[ThinkingPlus]

16 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I certainly don’t want non professional equipment to go backwards in forgiveness.

 

if the best in the world miss the center, I certainly do.

I do. If the ruling bodies roll back equipment for the pros, the same should apply to ams. Either we all feel the pain or none do.

[Pnwpingi210]

3 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I do. If the ruling bodies roll back equipment for the pros, the same should apply to ams. Either we all feel the pain or none do.

I haven’t fully thought through my opinion on that.
 

  I will say I don’t think on principle  amateurs and those playing professionally need to use the equipment that conforms to the same specs.  
 

Ball would be hard to enforce.  Driver/wood heads would be easier to enforce but have a higher financial burden for those amateurs that choose to enter tournaments using professional conforming equipment.

[GoGoErky]

15 hours ago, clevited said:

 

Nobody literally means it doesn't happen, it just doesn't happen enough for pro's to be scared to take a full swing at the ball.

Just like the long pause on the previous page and many other in here it’s another disingenuous and misrepresentation of what’s need said to fit the narrative they want to tell about what’s being said in being against the rollback

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, GoGoErky said:

Just like the long pause on the previous page and many other in here it’s another disingenuous and misrepresentation of what’s need said to fit the narrative they want to tell about what’s being said in being against the rollback

We don’t want to have to trick up the golf course so we’ll trick up the equipment instead.🤣

 

The next mandate to make putting more difficult.

Edited March 17 by Shilgy

[Simpsonia]

17 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

 

I’m laughing cause you both are speculating.  

 

You mean just like you're speculating the opposite? If you have an issue with the assertion use evidence to create counter-arguments, don't just troll and laugh and dismiss arguments because they are "speculation", because you're in the exact same boat. 

 

Here's my counter-argument. When pros use their 190cc 3woods off the tee, they are using the same level of swing as they always do, despite a sweet-spot about the size that the rollbackers want. They aren't reigning that in, so thus it's not super-likely that they would all of a sudden just start swinging significantly slower with a similar driver. They've been using the same size 3-Woods for their entire career. The odd mishit doesn't change their approach to the game. 

Edited March 17 by Simpsonia

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

You mean just like you're speculating the opposite? If you have an issue with the assertion use evidence to create counter-arguments, don't just troll and laugh and dismiss arguments because they are "speculation", because you're in the exact same boat. 

We can agree to disagree.

 
 

[ThinkingPlus]

10 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

You mean just like you're speculating the opposite? If you have an issue with the assertion use evidence to create counter-arguments, don't just troll and laugh and dismiss arguments because they are "speculation", because you're in the exact same boat. 

 

Here's my counter-argument. When pros use their 190cc 3woods off the tee, they are using the same level of swing as they always do, despite a sweet-spot about the size that the rollbackers want. They aren't reigning that in, so thus it's not super-likely that they would all of a sudden just start swinging significantly slower with a similar driver. They've been using the same size 3-Woods for their entire career. The odd mishit doesn't change their approach to the game. 

Well it seems pretty obvious when they hit their 3 wood 280 yards that they are "chipping" it to find the fairway. 😉

[Pnwpingi210]

29 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

We don’t want to have to trick up the golf course so we’ll trick up the equipment instead.🤣

 

The next mandate to make putting more difficult.

As a poor putter, I would really have strong objections to this one

[Hawkeye77]

Not being sarcastic. 
 

But for now isn’t it still 4-6 years of this playing out and equipment companies/Tours figuring out if they want to adapt or care enough to challenge in some way?

 

Just seems to go in circles based on a quick sample of the first few and last few pages. 
 

May not be widely held, and I’m hoping something changes for ams before 2030, but I don’t care if Tour players have a different ball standard, whatever you want to call it - “bifurcation” or something else. 

 

[Shilgy]

20 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Not being sarcastic. 
 

But for now isn’t it still 4-6 years of this playing out and equipment companies/Tours figuring out if they want to adapt or care enough to challenge in some way?

 

Just seems to go in circles based on a quick sample of the first few and last few pages. 
 

May not be widely held, and I’m hoping something changes for ams before 2030, but I don’t care if Tour players have a different ball standard, whatever you want to call it - “bifurcation” or something else. 

 

Best thing that could happen would be to lock it up until mid to late 2027.

[Hawkeye77]

9 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Best thing that could happen would be to lock it up until mid to late 2027.

Haha, probably but …….

 

And if the rolled back ball performs as well as my current version Pro V1 I’ll be fine with that, lol - but I’ll be shorter by then, haha, just think there is a ceiling for the vast majority of folks who play golf as far as what any ball does for them.
 

I respect anyone else’s opinion on how it may affect them or not wanting differentiation between pros and ams.  But I’ve been in the camp of something has to give on equipment for a long time - maybe all by myself (RIP Eric Carmen).

 

[Pnwpingi210]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

We don’t want to have to trick up the golf course so we’ll trick up the equipment instead.🤣

 

The next mandate to make putting more difficult.

Playing along with the theme of this thread…. I suspect the pros would be just fine

 

 

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Playing along with the theme of this thread…. I suspect the pros would be just fine

 

 

I’m guessing if that were actually mandated most would just play it waaay off the toe.

 

And, of course that’s Tiger.  Most of us could play his used up irons and still have plenty of good grooves where we hit it.

 

 

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

22 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

But for now isn’t it still 4-6 years of this playing out and equipment companies/Tours figuring out if they want to adapt or care enough to challenge in some way?

 

Just seems to go in circles based on a quick sample of the first few and last few pages. 
 

 

Pretty much. Thread probably didn't need to continue once the USGA/R&A actually made their spec. For as long as it was "proposed" and in the comment period, there was a point to debate. But now it's a rule. If the USGA/R&A didn't listen to us during the comment period, I don't think they're going to change their mind now. 

 

All that's left is for the pro-RB crew to gloat while the anti-RB crew laments the future. Instead we're still continuing to litigate a decision that's already been made.