Do all elite players squat in transition?

[reefrash1043]

The squat move has done wonders for my ballstriking. That combined with keeping the shoulders closed in transition have been a game changer. This got me thinking, do most elite players squat in the downswing?

 

Some do it more pronounced than others, like Rory, and some are more subtle. 
 

Curious everyone’s thoughts. 

[PracticeSwinger]

All is a big word, so no. Most is a better word or you could use some. Generally speaking, in good swings, in transition both legs flexes and the lead one extends from the GRF later on.

[golfarb1]

Very few have a “Sam Snead squat “ in which both hips externally rotate in the early downswing  . However, just about all start their downswing via aggressively externally rotating their lead hips , which causes a similar movement with the lead knee . 
Belowis a short video of Rory describing how he starts is downswing 

Edited May 5, 2023 by golfarb1

[MonteScheinblum]

It’s not necessarily a squat, but a lowering.  You can lower without squatting.

[phizzy30]

The elite players that are long off the tee all do the squat move.  If you aren't blessed with natural arm speed like Cameron Champ, the only other way to add speed to the swing is to push off the turf ie squat down into the ball and pop back up while rotating hips in order to generate speed. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by phizzy30

[Trippels]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-0oDDd2FJU

 

 

All elite player regain waist flexion and increase both knee bends in the downswing.

So technically they're squatting, isn't necessarily a good thing to try and do directly though.

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by Trippels

[HitSomeMissSome]

Squatting or unweighting? You may not see an aggressive squat, but everyone unweights. Every good player unweights, so they instinctively can push and rotate during the delivery interval. 

[iacas]

Curious how everyone is defining “squatting“? GEARS will measure pelvis lift, and it going down in the transition and early downswing is nowhere near universal amongst the tour players in my database.

[ThinkingPlus]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

Curious how everyone is defining “squatting“? GEARS will measure pelvis lift, and it going down in the transition and early downswing is nowhere near universal amongst the tour players in my database.

Come on, all elite players squat during transition where all, for the purposes of this discussion, is defined as some. 😉

[MPStrat]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Curious how everyone is defining “squatting“? GEARS will measure pelvis lift, and it going down in the transition and early downswing is nowhere near universal amongst the tour players in my database.

How much does that number change when you measure how much the pelvis lowered at any time in the swing? 

[MUNIGRIT]

I'd say pretty much to varying degrees.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

How much does that number change when you measure how much the pelvis lowered at any time in the swing? 

What number? Also, I asked you first. 🙃

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

What number? Also, I asked you first. 🙃

I didn’t make any claims. My question was about yours. 

 

6 hours ago, iacas said:

GEARS will measure pelvis lift, and it going down in the transition and early downswing is nowhere near universal amongst the tour players in my database.

 

You said “transition and early downswing” — my question is if instead, you took the entire swing from start to finish, does the number of tour players who lower the pelvis become larger or stay the same? 
 

Also can you please define “nowhere near universal” as a percentage? Doesn’t have to be exact just a ballpark. Some specific names and examples would be helpful as well. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

I didn’t make any claims. My question was about yours.

Where did I say you did? And again I asked the first question. How are we defining it?

 

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

You said “transition and early downswing” — my question is if instead, you took the entire swing from start to finish, does the number of tour players who lower the pelvis become larger or stay the same? 

At what point? And what’s that got to do with “squatting” which still hasn’t been defined?

 

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

Also can you please define “nowhere near universal” as a percentage? Doesn’t have to be exact just a ballpark. Some specific names and examples would be helpful as well. 

 

After you.

Edited May 8, 2023 by iacas

[MPStrat]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

Where did I say you did? And again I asked the first question. Then I asked another you still haven’t answered.

 

At what point? And what’s that got to do with “squatting” which still hasn’t been defined.

 

 

After you.

How did I know you would respond like this? I never mentioned squatting. You made a claim that I was interested in. You answered my question by giving a non-answer. Never mind. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by MPStrat

[iacas]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

How did I know you would respond like this? I never mentioned squatting. You made a claim that I was interested in. You answered my question by giving a non-answer. Never mind. 

 

The topic title is: "Do all elite players squat in transition?"

• First, I asked for a definition of "squat."
• Then, I ignored your "entire swing, from start to finish" because it's off topic. It's not "in transition."

So, yes, of course I'm going to respond in such a way that I'd like an answer to my question, and I'm going to try to stick to the actual topic.

 

If you want a better answer, ask a better question… that's on topic.

 

To go back to what I was saying… the answer to the question, for what I can figure is any normal definition of "squat," is "no." Not all elite players do it. Many, if you're looking at their pelvis lift on GEARS, are pretty "flat" through the transition, without much up or down.

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by iacas
Formatting

[ALIF]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

How did I know you would respond like this? I never mentioned squatting. You made a claim that I was interested in. You answered my question by giving a non-answer. Never mind. 

Does that mean you’re going to leave the discussion? Just asking for a friend.

[MPStrat]

14 minutes ago, ALIF said:

Does that mean you’re going to leave the discussion? Just asking for a friend.

This is a discussion? 

[ALIF]

5 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

This is a discussion? 

An on topic one. Right?

[MPStrat]

16 minutes ago, ALIF said:

An on topic one. Right?

I am sorry to have made you so emotional by asking a question.  

 

 

[phizzy30]

 

[golferdude54]

Lee Trevino in 1971, the year he won the US and British Open’s and led the tour in scoring average.

[golferdude54]

37 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

 

I would advise against emulating Cameron Young’s action unless you want to have 5 herniated discs before the age of 30.

 

Hitting up off a high tee with the modern driver has gotten today’s tour players moving their front hip AWAY from the target through impact, much like how pro baseball hitters move their front hip.

Only in baseball the swing is a lot more horizontal so it’s way safer on the back to do such a hip movement. This is not the case with a driver way closer to the ground.
 

Imagine how many pro baseball players would injure their hips and backs trying to hit pitches that hit the dirt on the plate every time. And they don’t come close to hitting as many balls daily as pro golfers do.

[MPStrat]

 

 

This is the best way to do it IMO 

[MK7Golf21]

22 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 

 

This is the best way to do it IMO 

 

I've played around with this in the past. The only problem is focusing on pushing your right hip back in transition tends to keep the pressure on your trail side too long and in the heel. My right toes would come off the ground and heel planted through the hit, was weird. Might work as a feel for someone who drastically gets on their right toes through the hit or something.

[MonteScheinblum]

Let’s look at it this way. A lot of elite pros lower. The overwhelming majority of amateurs raised too early.

 

If amateurs had the intent of lowering, they will either lower the small amount that many pros do or just not raise early anymore.

 

Another good intent that goes along with this is keeping the width between the knees constant until after impact.

[Soloman1]

Players can “lower” by upper body flexion and head movement.

 

They “squat” (lowering the pelvis) only by flexing the knees. Gotta go down before you can go up for ground vertical forces.

[phizzy30]

3 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

I would advise against emulating Cameron Young’s action unless you want to have 5 herniated discs before the age of 30.

 

Hitting up off a high tee with the modern driver has gotten today’s tour players moving their front hip AWAY from the target through impact, much like how pro baseball hitters move their front hip.

Only in baseball the swing is a lot more horizontal so it’s way safer on the back to do such a hip movement. This is not the case with a driver way closer to the ground.
 

Imagine how many pro baseball players would injure their hips and backs trying to hit pitches that hit the dirt on the plate every time. And they don’t come close to hitting as many balls daily as pro golfers do.

I have 3 herniated discs and it's not because of hitting up +5* like I used to and being 122+ ss, but that's another story.  As for as back and hip health is concerned, I do agree with you.  Swinging fast and hitting up puts a lot of strain on the hips and lower back.  However, from a pure swing speed and athletic standpoint, Cameron Young's swing is one of the best IMO. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by phizzy30

[ALIF]

11 hours ago, MPStrat said:

I am sorry to have made you so emotional by asking a question.  

 

 

Wow, now you can understand someone's emotions by looking at a few words they typed on the form? Wow!!!!! If you're here to just argue and antagonize it would be nice if you left. Most of us are here for discussion. That is about as unemotional as I can put it.

[golferdude54]

3 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Another good intent that goes along with this is keeping the width between the knees constant until after impact.

Moe Norman said that he felt his knees got wider as he started his downswing, so did Lee Trevino.

 

I find those fitness elastic loops that you put around your thighs just above your knees are an excellent training aid for knee width as you mentioned; the heavier resistance, the better.