Is putting skill something you are "born with" or something that you learn?

[bladehunter]

On 5/12/2023 at 4:52 PM, ItJustDiz said:

Putting is interesting.. I know players who have picked up the game recently who have terribly inconsistent strokes who are great putters, and guys who have played for years and worked on it endlessly and still don't putt well. 

 

That said, I don't think it's "putting skill" they are born with or without, just understanding the complexities of the skill - not to say that you do, but I think a lot of people err on the side of "we'll, we got to the green, now lets hurry up and get to the next hole" rather than focusing as much or more on putting as  they do with the other strokes in golf. It's roughly half the strokes in a given round, so it should be something you focus tremendously on. 

 

I played in a scramble recently with a friend who just picked up the game, never played a round in his life, and he made 5-6 putts for us because he works in landscaping and concrete construction and he sees the world as a gradient grid. It's not a skill he was born with but his livelihood depends on seeing level and slopes. 

 

Or maybe you just have the wrong putter....

Great point.  I’m definitely guilty of being the guy who wants to hurry the blank up and get putting over  with.  I don’t enjoy it.   I absolutely love hitting golf balls. But putting isn’t really any fun.
 

 It’s by far the hardest part of the game for me.  And I find myself being in the mindset of “ just don’t be slow at it.  Stay out of the way “    Which is the mindset of a hack playing with a group of pros.   And I’ve kept a + handicap for several years until this past winter. I think I’m a fast player in general.  And I really need to figure out how to be slower on the green.  I’m just a see general break.  Choose a line and go kind of guy.  I’ve discussed numerous routines with numerous people.  And stuck to them for weeks at a time. And never had any real aha moment. 
 

to the last part - and I mean this to the OP.  The putter.  If your speed control is that bad. Start looking at a putter with a better roll.  I’ve had to do the same.  I have wide shoulders and a tendency to add loft at impact , so I get a lot of hops and wobbly rolls.   Pretty much found that the best fit and fix for that is a LAB putter.  Either the offset grip or the armlock which is a forced forward press. It rolls so good I had to relearn speed and reads.    I don’t know what it is about my physical makeup.  But I’m a lot like Dustin Johnson.  He will setup and have almost reverse shaft lean.  I used to catch myself doing the same. And by the time I hit the ball I’ve turned 3 degrees loft into 6 or 7.  Ball hops and loses speed and that stinks.  So yes. Finding a proper fit should be first.  

[bluedot]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is eyesight. 

 

I play righthanded, but am left eye dominant.  After a partially detached retina 5 years ago, followed by 7 different procedures on my right eye, I'm basically playing with one eye now, and the difference this has made to my short game in general and putting in particular is really hard to overstate.

 

Plus, it sent me on a "quest" to learn all I could about work-arounds since I still play competitively at age 70.  I met with a sports vision specialist in the Duke Health Network, and then read a book that she recommended, written by an ophthalmologist who works with professional athletes in all sports.

 

Here are a couple of things I've learned from all of this:

1. The degree of eye dominance varies greatly from one person to another, but elite athletes tend to have a VERY low degree of eye dominance; their eyes work together quite well.  Along with degree of eye dominance, depth perception and peripheral vision vary greatly from person to person, and this is another place where elite athletes in ALL sports are different from the rest of us.

 

2. Not only does visual acuity decline with age, but so do other aspects of vision, including peripheral vision and depth perception.  I had always attributed declining putting skills to nerves, but I don't get nervous at all, and still just don't putt anywhere near as well as I used to.  I don't see subtle slopes, and I don't match my speed to my read nearly as well as I used to.

 

3. The degree of eye dominance can increase as we age, too.  The specialist I met with told me that research shows that golfers tend to miss more often to the side of their dominant eye, so I have to "add" some break now on right-to-left breakers.  To give another example, shooters tend to struggle with targets that are coming from the other side from their shooting shoulder.

 

Those are just examples, but the point is that there may be more than just talent or practice in the equation when you are talking about something as precise as putting.  Just a thought for you to consider.

[Soloman1]

We’re using a stick to roll the ball into the hole. That’s it.

 

Disregarding the read, mental clutter about the stroke isn’t much help. Disconnecting from it is freedom.

 

You don’t go through mental gyrations and mechanical thoughts throwing darts, beanbags, jump shots or playing pool. You’re in the moment.

 

More than likely, you’ve made putts similar to the one in front of you. Think of when you did and let that thought be front of mind.

 

Oh, there are drills to get you there, but an outward intent helps.

 

Is there anything more fun than the feeling that you can’t wait to get that stick in your hand, because you’ve seen this before and made it? Then make it.

 

Putts are not life or death. That would be a lot of lives and deaths and exhausting in a four-hour period. Five hours in California.

[phizzy30]

I used to be a horrible putter as a kid growing up.  Essentially I would put cut spin on it by putting an OTT stroke on the ball.  My college coach taught me to put in an arc ala Crenshaw and my putting improved drastically.  Went from an 8 in high school, down to a 2 in college.  My putting is still the strongest part of my game and I average 35 putts per round.  So to those out there that are mediocre putters, there's hope. 

[garyt]

On 5/12/2023 at 2:43 PM, RoyalMustang said:

Full disclosure: I can't putt. I practice and practice, but it seems like I keep missing 3 footers. I can make 15 12-footers in a row on my Wellputt at home but can't make a single one at the course. I try and keep my shoulders connected, with a smooth centered stroke, and sometimes the 15 foot putt only goes 12 feet, sometimes it goes 25 feet. I can't read a green half the time. 

 

I putted with my son, who is 8 and doesn't even play, and he kicked my butt on the practice green. I beat him in mini golf though, so that is something. 

 

I am wondering if putting is something that helps to pick up when you are very little, kind of like language, juggling, or skiing. The way it helps to wire your brain when you are young, so that it doesn't feel so mechanical.

 

Thoughts on this? What did you do to go from being a non-natural putter to pretty decent? I am playing some pretty good golf right now in terms of hitting greens and driving, but unless I can get away from the 3-putt plague, my scores won't reflect it.  

You are my brother from another mother

[phizzy30]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Great point.  I’m definitely guilty of being the guy who wants to hurry the blank up and get putting over  with.  I don’t enjoy it.   I absolutely love hitting golf balls. But putting isn’t really any fun.
 

 It’s by far the hardest part of the game for me.  And I find myself being in the mindset of “ just don’t be slow at it.  Stay out of the way “    Which is the mindset of a hack playing with a group of pros.   And I’ve kept a + handicap for several years until this past winter. I think I’m a fast player in general.  And I really need to figure out how to be slower on the green.  I’m just a see general break.  Choose a line and go kind of guy.  I’ve discussed numerous routines with numerous people.  And stuck to them for weeks at a time. And never had any real aha moment. 
 

to the last part - and I mean this to the OP.  The putter.  If your speed control is that bad. Start looking at a putter with a better roll.  I’ve had to do the same.  I have wide shoulders and a tendency to add loft at impact , so I get a lot of hops and wobbly rolls.   Pretty much found that the best fit and fix for that is a LAB putter.  Either the offset grip or the armlock which is a forced forward press. It rolls so good I had to relearn speed and reads.    I don’t know what it is about my physical makeup.  But I’m a lot like Dustin Johnson.  He will setup and have almost reverse shaft lean.  I used to catch myself doing the same. And by the time I hit the ball I’ve turned 3 degrees loft into 6 or 7.  Ball hops and loses speed and that stinks.  So yes. Finding a proper fit should be first.  

You and I would make really good playing partners then.  I like beating balls but love to putt because that's where I win my bets.  It's also what turns what should be an 80 into a 76.  You know any suckers that want to play a money match? LOL.   

Edited May 14, 2023 by phizzy30

[Ghostwedge]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is eyesight. 

 

I play righthanded, but am left eye dominant.  After a partially detached retina 5 years ago, followed by 7 different procedures on my right eye, I'm basically playing with one eye now, and the difference this has made to my short game in general and putting in particular is really hard to overstate.

 

Plus, it sent me on a "quest" to learn all I could about work-arounds since I still play competitively at age 70.  I met with a sports vision specialist in the Duke Health Network, and then read a book that she recommended, written by an ophthalmologist who works with professional athletes in all sports.

 

Here are a couple of things I've learned from all of this:

1. The degree of eye dominance varies greatly from one person to another, but elite athletes tend to have a VERY low degree of eye dominance; their eyes work together quite well.  Along with degree of eye dominance, depth perception and peripheral vision vary greatly from person to person, and this is another place where elite athletes in ALL sports are different from the rest of us.

 

2. Not only does visual acuity decline with age, but so do other aspects of vision, including peripheral vision and depth perception.  I had always attributed declining putting skills to nerves, but I don't get nervous at all, and still just don't putt anywhere near as well as I used to.  I don't see subtle slopes, and I don't match my speed to my read nearly as well as I used to.

 

3. The degree of eye dominance can increase as we age, too.  The specialist I met with told me that research shows that golfers tend to miss more often to the side of their dominant eye, so I have to "add" some break now on right-to-left breakers.  To give another example, shooters tend to struggle with targets that are coming from the other side from their shooting shoulder.

 

Those are just examples, but the point is that there may be more than just talent or practice in the equation when you are talking about something as precise as putting.  Just a thought for you to consider.

What a great post..... loads of good info - thanks bluedot !

[Ghostwedge]

I don't think its a "putting skill" its more of hand eye coordination thing.

Some of us just have more of it. Those who grew up playing sports ( think stick and ball ) should have a easier time putting but then we start complicating it.

What works for me is getting the speed right, when that happens putts drop.

The more you get the speed right the better the line looked too.

[Soloman1]

There are studies showing that hand-eye coordination isn't so important in golf. I used to think it was, but don't now.

 

Hand-eye coordination is important for moving objects and the golf ball isn't moving.

 

There are blind golfers who can play better than sighted ones. That's pretty good evidence.

[bladehunter]

33 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

You and I would make really good playing partners then.  I like beating balls but love to putt because that's where I win my bets.  It's also what turns what should be an 80 into a 76.  You know any suckers that want to play a money match? LOL.   

Oh yea.  Always a few of them around.  
😂

[metaldog]

Being a certified bad putter a couple years ago to a mediocre to decent one now, sounds like you need some sort of green reading reference like aim point, aim point has really turned things around for me in green reading

 

then for hitting a 15 footer 12-25 feet, sounds like you practice on the well putt a lot but not enough outdoors on actual greens, practice lag putts enough you will get a feel for how much backswing to take given a certain tempo, or the other way around where you keep backswing the same but change tempo (most people rather change backswing length instead)

 

if anything I think looking at will zalatoris is good proof hard work will always beat talent in putting, he can putt off the heel or the toe with a shaky stroke but definitely worked his a** off to putt at a pga level

[PracticeSwinger]

10 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

We’re using a stick to roll the ball into the hole. That’s it.

 

Disregarding the read, mental clutter about the stroke isn’t much help. Disconnecting from it is freedom.

 

You don’t go through mental gyrations and mechanical thoughts throwing darts, beanbags, jump shots or playing pool. You’re in the moment.

 

More than likely, you’ve made putts similar to the one in front of you. Think of when you did and let that thought be front of mind.

 

Oh, there are drills to get you there, but an outward intent helps.

 

Is there anything more fun than the feeling that you can’t wait to get that stick in your hand, because you’ve seen this before and made it? Then make it.

 

Putts are not life or death. That would be a lot of lives and deaths and exhausting in a four-hour period. Five hours in California.

100%. That and the fact that people can’t objectively manage expectations. As the previous Ping staffer mentioned here, great players will have 5 GIR in a row all at 15-20 feet or so (great ball striking for sure!) and be mad they’re even Par through those 5 holes. “Can’t sink a 15 footer today!”, well most good putters don’t, but make sure they give it a chance to.

[naval2006]

If you compare pros 30 or more years ago and today pros on the green you’ll notice a substantial difference. These days top golfers hole thousands of shorter putts. They all have a similar robotic style combined with a lot of touch for distance.  Faster greens allow for this, too. 
 

They’ve achieved all this through body mechanics improvement combined with perfectly balanced sticks and long hours of practice. So I do believe you can learn to be a good putter more than ever before.  
 

And mentally, pros are stronger, they are used to looking at the hole, find a line and shut their brain to hit the shot.  Gone are the days of guys missing a 2 or 3 footer to win or go to a playoff.   
 

Putting is the only department of the game where you can get close to a pro. You have to find your repetitive technique and the right mindset and start from there. I was a below average putter myself but at 16 I saw Nick Faldo’s putting training and I copied it to a t. And a few years later I came across a little book called Putting Out Of Your Mind that got me going mentally. That finished my training to become a decent and confident putter. 

[iceman1118]

On 5/12/2023 at 8:09 PM, ChipNRun said:

People who claim they have natural ability to putt well were lucky enough to stumble onto a putter they could use.

 

Lots of research on putting since the early 2000s. One aspect has to do with dominant eye. Here's the living room test to determine Dominant Eye.

 

And, there's the physical specs on the putter. A putter that is too upright, a rightie can miss left (just as with too long driver shaft). Does it have too much loft? Is the head weight too light?

 

Also, consider fine points of set-up. Does the ball roll smoothly off the clubface, or do you get skid the first 12 inches or so. (This may relate in part to physical specs of putter.)

 

Since poor putting appears to be long-term problem, get a putting lesson and a putter fitting. By your own admission, you are unable to cure the problem on your own.

I feel like eye dominance is so over looked in golf overall. I am a righty who is heavily right EVERYTHING dominant. I can barely use a fork left handed. So for me, everything is dominated by my right side in golf. I need to step into every shot ( driver down to putter) with my right hand only on the club and settle in to my aim. My left hand going onto the grip is literally the last thing to happen in my entire setup. Right hand, right foot, right eye to aim. Align body with left arm hanging, find comfortable, left hand on, pull trigger. 
 

Plus, being so right eye dominant, I can never ever ever “keep my head down”. I look like David Duval and Annika at impact. Head 40-50 yards down range. If I do not do that, body stalls (especially the right shoulder), and flippy flippy and fore left of left is the result. 
 

I would really love to hear thoughts on right eye dominance and putting. 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Varry_Hardon said:

100%. That and the fact that people can’t objectively manage expectations. As the previous Ping staffer mentioned here, great players will have 5 GIR in a row all at 15-20 feet or so (great ball striking for sure!) and be mad they’re even Par through those 5 holes. “Can’t sink a 15 footer today!”, well most good putters don’t, but make sure they give it a chance to.

Please hear this as a question. Not an attack. At all.  You struck a nerve. And I’d like to pick at the idea a bit , hopefully to understand it.  
 

“ most good putters don’t “.    Do you mean most won’t make 1 of those 5 ?   
 

“ they give it a chance though “.  What does that mean ?  A Lipout ? Short in the jaws ? Or long on the correct line to die it in ?  I find this section of putting teaching to be the most confusing and most infuriating at times.  Because it includes the most “ luck “ of any  part of the game. You can have a 5 footer bump online and go in from a dead pull. Or you can have the same 5 footer be in the whole way and at the last second lean out and power lip leaving  another 3 footer coming back.  And there’s no real explanation for either.  Both “ had a chance “.  What I’m getting at is when a putt falls it feels like complete chance. When it doesn’t go in it’s also  complete Chance. So what do good putters actually think while putting ? By good putters I’m talking about the guy who makes 15-20 % of those 15-20 footers. And by extension the same guy makes a lot inside 10 and most inside 5 and all inside 3.    If putting is as easy as they claim.  Then reaching top level stats should be doable for anyone , especially those who have top level approach and shortgame stats. But it doesn’t prove to be as easy as work.  
 

do they have control ? as in do they feel like they can repeat the same putt several times ?  Not repeat the start line.  That’s easy. But Have the ball end in the exact same spot or relative spot.  Or do they see it as complete Chance and just accept that ?  I know what good approach players think like.  I am one.  It’s Absolutely a control game.  It’s not nearly a chance game unless Its very windy.  I think this is why I struggle mentally with it. I try to control putting too and I don’t think it can be done.  It’s just a lot of hit and hope.  Stressful rounds are if you try to make putts. Less or no stress is when you can just not try and accept making nothing.  If one falls you laugh at the stupidity of it all. It’s almost an insult when you make a putt with no expectations.  Like you’ve been given something.  I don’t  like that feeling. I prefer to have a plan.  Work that plan and then have that plan produce results.  Putting doesn’t work that way.  
 

 

[b.mattay]

13 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

 

do they have control ? as in do they feel like they can repeat the same putt several times ?  Not repeat the start line.  That’s easy. But Have the ball end in the exact same spot or relative spot.  Or do they see it as complete Chance and just accept that ?  I know what good approach players think like.  I am one.  It’s Absolutely a control game.  It’s not nearly a chance game unless Its very windy.  I think this is why I struggle mentally with it. I try to control putting too and I don’t think it can be done.  It’s just a lot of hit and hope.  

I don’t think this has to be a dichotomy between ball-striking and putting. Maybe try relating to it like this-both putting and approach play have a dispersion to them. Are you upset if you flush a 9 iron and instead of going 150 it goes 153 or 147? Are you upset if you push a 6 iron 25 feet off line? Both are still very good shots…same applies to putting. Some putts hit with a good speed are slightly misread. Some putts with a perfect read are slightly off on speed. In all instances (full swing and putting), you are adding processing to your golfing computer that should add to your “calculation ability” in the future, given proper emotional processing of the input and result. 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, b.mattay said:

I don’t think this has to be a dichotomy between ball-striking and putting. Maybe try relating to it like this-both putting and approach play have a dispersion to them. Are you upset if you flush a 9 iron and instead of going 150 it goes 153 or 147? Are you upset if you push a 6 iron 25 feet off line? Both are still very good shots…same applies to putting. Some putts hit with a good speed are slightly misread. Some putts with a perfect read are slightly off on speed. In all instances (full swing and putting), you are adding processing to your golfing computer that should add to your “calculation ability” in the future, given proper emotional processing of the input and result. 

If I’m honest. Yes.  6 yard variance with a 9 iron as far as distance control isn’t good. That’s 18 feet. I could take 18 feet side to side much easier.  And I realize that is the reality of the good vs bad of a good approach players. But to answer. Yes. I’m not pleased with the front to back “ miss” that 18-20 feet with a short iron is.  Now. Does it mean I throw a fit ? No.  It’s just how it is. I’ll adjust and flush the next one.  Or if it’s long and the ball is traveling I’ll adjust club next time. 
 

that's really my whole point. I can adjust and hone in the miss on approach.  Can’t do that with a putt.  You can stand and roll 10 20 footers in a row and not get the same result from  any of them.  Depending on the putt.  Several will be long.  Several short and some mishits that are just off all over. The finality of putting makes it different.  If you make no putts. You can never reach your possible potential in this game.  Some of us make nothing. Except rare days when they all go in with no real reason why.    I just wonder. What those people think that make putts every round?  

[SNIPERBBB]

9 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

.    I just wonder. What those people think that make putts every round?  

We don't. If you're thinking when your over the ball, it never ends well 

[bladehunter]

48 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

We don't. If you're thinking when your over the ball, it never ends well 

Lol. Well. We maybe on to something.  But I’d counter and say that my brain never stops.  I’m not obsessing over mechanical things. But constant stream of consciousness is a plague I live with.  It doesn’t seem to hinder any part of the game except putting.  
 

so you’re saying you are devoid of thoughts over a putt?  None of line ?  Speed ? Or target ?   Real questions. 

[Soloman1]

Then get this song stuck in your head every time you’re on the putting green. That should do it. My work is done here. 🙂

 

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Soloman1

[SNIPERBBB]

59 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Lol. Well. We maybe on to something.  But I’d counter and say that my brain never stops.  I’m not obsessing over mechanical things. But constant stream of consciousness is a plague I live with.  It doesn’t seem to hinder any part of the game except putting.  
 

so you’re saying you are devoid of thoughts over a putt?  None of line ?  Speed ? Or target ?   Real questions. 

I'm just focused on my target.  No real thoughts. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by SNIPERBBB

[iacas]

3 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

If you're thinking when your over the ball, it never ends well

 

Golf Digest surveyed PGA Tour players, and they had something like 3.4 swing thoughts. Jordan Spieth has talked about how he had three swing thoughts he'd cycle in and out depending on things while playing golf back in 2015 to 2017.

 

I'm a very good putter. I sometimes have to think a little of taking the face back slightly hooded (feel, it's not actually closing)… and I still putt really well while doing it. Often a bit better than I had been putting (still well), because that's why I need to make that correction/adjustment.

 

People are different. I could argue that thinking only of "target" is results oriented, and sometimes thinking about doing whatever with the face (my example) is process oriented. Of course, I'm still aware of the target, I'm just not thinking ONLY about it.

 

Long story short: everyone's a bit different, and it's generally a bad idea to say "never" and "always" (fully realizing I just said "everyone").

[SNIPERBBB]

Just now, iacas said:

 

Golf Digest surveyed PGA Tour players, and they had something like 3.4 swing thoughts. Jordan Spieth has talked about how he had three swing thoughts he'd cycle in and out depending on things while playing golf back in 2015 to 2017.

 

I'm a very good putter. I sometimes have to think a little of taking the face back slightly hooded (feel, it's not actually closing)… and I still putt really well while doing it. Often a bit better than I had been putting (still well), because that's why I need to make that correction/adjustment.

 

People are different. I could argue that thinking only of "target" is results oriented, and sometimes thinking about doing whatever with the face (my example) is process oriented. Of course, I'm still aware of the target, I'm just not thinking ONLY about it.

 

Long story short: everyone's a bit different, and it's generally a bad idea to say "never" and "always" (fully realizing I just said "everyone").

In the hole is a result. Target is not. I don't like to think of mechanics at all when I'm over the ball on the course. That end result is usually an over exaggeration resulting in a bad miss. 

[b.mattay]

4 hours ago, bladehunter said:

If I’m honest. Yes.  6 yard variance with a 9 iron as far as distance control isn’t good. That’s 18 feet. I could take 18 feet side to side much easier.  And I realize that is the reality of the good vs bad of a good approach players.
 

Can’t do that with a putt.  You can stand and roll 10 20 footers in a row and not get the same result from  any of them.  Depending on the putt.  Several will be long.  Several short and some mishits that are just off all over.
 

What those people think that make putts every round?  

I took a few points from your response (separated by spaces). 

 

1.) If I only had a 6 yard variance on iron shots I would shoot 65 every round haha. 

2.) None of your 10 9 irons would end up in the same spot either. If you’re a good approach player the dispersion would be tight though. Same applies with putting. I’m a very good putter-if I roll 10 20 footers with a moderate break they will be in a group that is probably 2.5 cups L-R and 2 feet front to back. A fair amount of that grouping will catch the hole. 

3.) You have to be excited about the opportunity to make putts and channel that into the same focus you’d put into approaches. 

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

I'm just focused on my target.  No real thoughts. 

That’s pretty much same as me.  But that thought comes with a conscious or subconscious path to get there.  So there’s read , speed and end target.  So im not seeing a difference in my thinking.  
 

do you use line on the ball ?  

[chisag]

4 hours ago, bladehunter said:

so you’re saying you are devoid of thoughts over a putt?  None of line ?  Speed ? Or target ?   Real questions.

 

 

... I think you know that confidence is paramount to any part of your game amigo. For arguments sake, let's just say you are correct and putting is mostly chance. It isn't but if it were, you are in control of giving yourself the best chance by thinking you will make every putt. Putting has always been a strength of my game and that is exactly what I do. I honestly think I will make every putt. Of course a 30 footer with a double break is a tough ask but having confidence makes it an easier putt than thinking this is just pure chance and each of the two breaks can send the ball off line.  But my approach and confidence is the same for a 6, 16 or a 26 footer.  In other words you make your own luck.

... I have never made any changes with my putting stroke from the very first time I played. I wish I could say that about other parts of my game 🙄 but the further I get from the green the more my confidence wains. I have never had a bad putting day but I have had far too many bad driving days. So there is certainly something to success builds confidence. Sure, I have days where nothing seems to fall but I am around the hole and the stroke feels the same as the days when everything seems to fall. 

... To answer the above. Absolutely no thought whatsoever. None. I posted earlier but I just enter a very zen like state and allow my brain to take in the speed and the line. Of course I let my eyes take in the slope, uphill/downhill when looking at the putt before stroking the ball, but once I am over the ball I am catatonic. Noise doesn't bother me and many times someone has apologized for talking or making a noise and I let them know I didn't hear it. But once I am over the ball movement in my peripheral vision interrupts the zen state and I have to start over. My brain is making all the calculations subconsciously and movement shifts the focus. Not trying to give myself calluses from patting my own back, but my speed control is pretty amazing and I hear comments about it all the time. Obviously playing for almost 40 years experience on different type greens in different parts of the country has added to my subconscious data base but it still comes down to trust and confidence. 

 

[chisag]

26 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

 But that thought comes with a conscious or subconscious path to get there.  So there’s read , speed and end target.  So im not seeing a difference in my thinking.

 

 

... Here is something for you to try the next time you are on a practice green and have several holes to use. Stand in one spot and take a look at the putt you have. Just look at it and take it in without calculating line or speed. Then close your eyes and stroke your putt. Don't putt to the same hole and distance twice, but do the same with other holes at varying distances. If it feels a little wierd at first, just keep at it and I have a feeling you may surprise yourself by how close you can get and even make some putts with your eyes closed. 

[bladehunter]

14 minutes ago, b.mattay said:

I took a few points from your response (separated by spaces). 

 

1.) If I only had a 6 yard variance on iron shots I would shoot 65 every round haha. 

2.) None of your 10 9 irons would end up in the same spot either. If you’re a good approach player the dispersion would be tight though. Same applies with putting. I’m a very good putter-if I roll 10 20 footers with a moderate break they will be in a group that is probably 2.5 cups L-R and 2 feet front to back. A fair amount of that grouping will catch the hole. 

3.) You have to be excited about the opportunity to make putts and channel that into the same focus you’d put into approaches. 

I understand where you’re coming from. And I love the discussion.  Here’s my response to those 

 

 

1.  Not if you didn’t make any putts you wouldn’t. You’d break par 1 of 10 rounds. 
 

2. not the same spot.  True. But. I’d say relative to making a putt , most will end up in a place that “ meets the goal “.  Where none of the putts met the goal. Unless the goal is to 2 putt.  I genuinely don’t know what that goal should be.  Some say make.  Some say don’t try to make.  ? I don’t know.    I too can do that on many of 10 20 foot putts.  After I see the first putt miss. Lol.  Give me the read I’ll hit the hole.  Reads have always been the issue.  I play hard greens.  Think quail hollow like slopes and same Bermuda.  You don’t get many straight putts. When you do you have trouble trusting that as fact and look for a “ fall at the hole “ break.  

3.  I wish.  I start off every round with this fresh mind.  and with each hole it gets harder and harder to retain it. So I don’t disagree.  But I’m at about month 20 of this drought.  So it gets harder and harder . I finish most rounds playing defense.   Adding to the good birdie looks missed , scar tissue.  In the last 6 months it’s been so bad that I stopped wanting to play.  And I’m a guy who would play 36 a day if I could and at one point kept a scoring average of 73.4. Now I just hate to go out and ruin my day again. I get offers to ditch work ( I work for myself ) and play 9 or 18 weekly. I can’t remember taking one in the last 6 months.  Just don’t want to go waste my time.  It’s really killed something that I loved.  

[bluedot]

The trapdoor in threads like this is the belief that what works for you is not only 

a. Best for you, but…

b. would be best for anyone/everyone else 

 

a. Above MIGHT be true, but also might not be

b. Above almost certainly is NOT true

[bladehunter]

28 minutes ago, chisag said:

 

 

... I think you know that confidence is paramount to any part of your game amigo. For arguments sake, let's just say you are correct and putting is mostly chance. It isn't but if it were, you are in control of giving yourself the best chance by thinking you will make every putt. Putting has always been a strength of my game and that is exactly what I do. I honestly think I will make every putt. Of course a 30 footer with a double break is a tough ask but having confidence makes it an easier putt than thinking this is just pure chance and each of the two breaks can send the ball off line.  But my approach and confidence is the same for a 6, 16 or a 26 footer.  In other words you make your own luck.

... I have never made any changes with my putting stroke from the very first time I played. I wish I could say that about other parts of my game 🙄 but the further I get from the green the more my confidence wains. I have never had a bad putting day but I have had far too many bad driving days. So there is certainly something to success builds confidence. Sure, I have days where nothing seems to fall but I am around the hole and the stroke feels the same as the days when everything seems to fall. 

... To answer the above. Absolutely no thought whatsoever. None. I posted earlier but I just enter a very zen like state and allow my brain to take in the speed and the line. Of course I let my eyes take in the slope, uphill/downhill when looking at the putt before stroking the ball, but once I am over the ball I am catatonic. Noise doesn't bother me and many times someone has apologized for talking or making a noise and I let them know I didn't hear it. But once I am over the ball movement in my peripheral vision interrupts the zen state and I have to start over. My brain is making all the calculations subconsciously and movement shifts the focus. Not trying to give myself calluses from patting my own back, but my speed control is pretty amazing and I hear comments about it all the time. Obviously playing for almost 40 years experience on different type greens in different parts of the country has added to my subconscious data base but it still comes down to trust and confidence. 

 

I used to putt that way.  When I thought I could putt.  Lol.    Then stats came along and told me how bad I was.  Been shat ever since.
 

 I’m still that way on approach. but with putter ,  Just no trust.  Every single time you try to let go it turns into a 3 putt fest.  No distance is safe from the 3 putt.    I really shouldn’t post anymore.  I’m a mess and it’s plain to see. So I ramble.    It’s turned into an unhealthy place to be and/or use of time. So much so that I haven’t signed up for a single event this summer because I don’t want to deal with the fallout.  It’s a shame because I don’t recall ever having a bag full of clubs I hit better. Wouldn’t change 13 of them if I was offered things for free. 

Edited May 14, 2023 by bladehunter